Airbus and Bombardier Announce CSeries Partnership

MD80MKE · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:26 pm

· Airbus to acquire majority stake in the C Series Aircraft Limited Partnership

· Partnership brings together two complementary product lines, with 100-150 seat market segment expected to represent more than 6,000 new aircraft over the next 20 years

· Combination of Airbus’ global reach and scale with Bombardier’s newest aircraft family to create significant value for customers, suppliers, employees and shareholders

· Significant C Series production costs savings anticipated by leveraging Airbus’ supply chain expertise

· Commitment to Québec: C Series Aircraft Limited Partnership headquarters and primary assembly to remain in Québec, with the support of both companies’ global supply chains

· Airbus’ global industrial footprint expands with the C Series Final Assembly Line in Canada, resulting in a positive impact on operations in Québec and across the country

· Growing market for C Series results in second Final Assembly Line in Mobile, Alabama, serving U.S. customers

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... ement.html

Guess Ed Bastion was right. Delta might not need to pay the extra tariff after all.

Samrnpage · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:28 pm

I am actually chuffed that the Cseries will live on!! Or does it? :/ Boeing must be smacking their heads against the table!

ACCS300 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:31 pm

Fantastic news, just breaking here in Canada! Boeing's image is certainly quite tarnished here, so a partnership with Airbus, that ensures this fantastic product's success, is welcome news!

Skywatcher · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:35 pm

Well thought out-this has clearly been in the works for awhile.
I like the idea of Canadian industry partnering up with more reliable trading partners in Europe going forward.

Turnhouse1 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:35 pm

So does the Mobile Final Assembly Line mean the tariffs are history?

Flyingabout · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:36 pm

I'd have loved to see BBD go all the way on their own, but given the way things have panned out, this is excellent news. The Cseries is a phenomenal aircraft, a true product of the 21st century and it shouldn't be allowed to drown in bureaucracy. This industry needs innovation not protectionism. To the future!

11725Flyer · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:36 pm

Wow! I have the popcorn in the microwave.

MD80MKE · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:36 pm

And also this CS100/CS300/A320neo/A321neo lineup will be scary in the NB market.

Skywatcher · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:37 pm

I wonder how the Boeing lawyers will squeeze fees out of this?

scbriml · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:38 pm

Wow, didn't see that one coming.

I guess that's an outcome Boeing didn't foresee. :spin:

Continental767 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:40 pm

I don’t think Boeing saw that coming! Would like to know what is being said in Chicago right now...

wezgulf3 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:41 pm

I did post this on the other thread but....

Would the import tariff not still exist though? I can’t see Mobile being able to build the CSeries from scratch, meaning some parts would need to be imported?

Wes...

NameOmitted · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:41 pm

So, now we know Airbus' next move (and where they are putting their resources), will this give Boeing more clarity as to new aircraft vs. waiting for better engines?

downdata · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:41 pm

Majority stake hmmmm. Well i guess they were backed into a corner and had no options left but to cede control. This is great news but only for airbus. Boeing is the biggest loser but canadian aerospace industry didnt really win either.

nycbjr · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:43 pm

Can you say shoot yourself in the foot? Face plant Boeing seriously!

ucdtim17 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:43 pm

So is it going to be the Airbus C Series now?

idjim319 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:44 pm

Excellent. I'm happy to see the tie up, particularly in the face of the North American free trade discussions.

jbs2886 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:44 pm

Continental767 wrote:
I don’t think Boeing saw that coming! Would like to know what is being said in Chicago right now...

Same. I wonder if Boeing is on the phone with Embraer and Mitsubishi now.

ER757 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:46 pm

Continental767 wrote:
I don’t think Boeing saw that coming! Would like to know what is being said in Chicago right now...

If I typed what I am guessing is being said, it would probably get deleted and I'd be receiving a nasty email from the moderators :lol:

beechnut · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:47 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
So is it going to be the Airbus C Series now?

Maybe a full re-branding:

CS100 = Airbus 219
CS300 = Airbus 220
CS500 (if ever it's developed) = Airbus 221

Beech

Breathe · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:47 pm

I'm sure the Boeing Exec(s) who suggested making the complaint to the U.S Government, won't be having a fun day in the boardroom tomorrow...

Breathe · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:49 pm

MD80MKE wrote:
And also this CS100/CS300/A320neo/A321neo lineup will be scary in the NB market.

Don't forget, they own 50% of ATR as well!

Jamie514 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:49 pm

downdata wrote:
Majority stake hmmmm. Well i guess they were backed into a corner and had no options left but to cede control. This is great news but only for airbus. Boeing is the biggest loser but canadian aerospace industry didnt really win either.

Did they really cede all control? I thought the bullet points called it a joint venture and project admin remains in Quebec...they’ll be helping to lower costs in the supply chain and provide top tier marketing plus an American assembly location and better legal guidance for selling into protectionist jurisdictions.

What worries me is we may not see the design reach its full potential since its now a unit of A. I’m hoping Airbus pushes at least to the CS500 which allows them to optimize the 320 around the 321-322.

Yflyer · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:50 pm

wezgulf3 wrote:
Would the import tariff not still exist though? I can’t see Mobile being able to build the CSeries from scratch, meaning some parts would need to be imported?

I'm not certain, but I think the tariff only applies to completed aircraft. I don't believe there would be any tariff on aircraft parts.

Breathe · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:52 pm

CFM565A1 wrote:
I'm quite relieved by this, I'm happy that Canadians could keep their jobs and Americans will possibly get some! It's a good solution... I hope that Airbus getting this much control is a strong message to Bombardier mgmt about how big they blundered and therefore needed help!

Don't forget about the 4,000 workers in Belfast, Northern Ireland too, I'm sure they'll just as relieved!

ikolkyo · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:52 pm

Oh my god, this is actually going happening. Sheesh!

ACCS300 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:53 pm

I'll bet AC is wishing they'd never gone with the MAX now. I see both major Canadian carriers hugely supporting this partnership especially in the wake of Boeing's tanking image here.

727823 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:54 pm

I'm quite relieved by this, I'm happy that Canadians could keep their jobs and Americans will possibly get some! It's a good solution... I hope that Airbus getting this much control is a strong message to Bombardier mgmt about how big they blundered and therefore needed help!

:thumbsup:

wezgulf3 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:54 pm

Yflyer wrote:
wezgulf3 wrote:
Would the import tariff not still exist though? I can’t see Mobile being able to build the CSeries from scratch, meaning some parts would need to be imported?

I'm not certain, but I think the tariff only applies to completed aircraft. I don't believe there would be any tariff on aircraft parts.

That would be very good if that’s the case!

Wes...

Dfthu · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:54 pm

Really interesting, I'm pretty surprised. I hope they make the CS500 (and keep CS name).

727823 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:57 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
I'll bet AC is wishing they'd never gone with the MAX now. I see both major Canadian carriers hugely supporting this partnership especially in the wake of Boeing's tanking image here.

Mr. WestJet has shown a bit of anti-Bombardier sentiment when they refused to defer the Q400 orders... I won't get into that as it's done. WS will still support Boeing (as they should and I hate admitting that), why waste a good longstanding relationship with them and a plane that fits them well.

Air Canada, who knows they could reduce the 737 order and ship them to Rouge or possibly give Rouge a new fleet, but I think too much time and money has been put into the 737 prep so I say nothing will happen... now if this had been 2 years ago then I'd consider the opposite.

Samrnpage · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:58 pm

Boeing deserves this - I feel they got too big for their boots here and forced bombardier to sell the Cseries or go bust. They just went to boeings main competitor and Airbus are laughing to the bank. I always thought the Cseries looks like slicker smaller and modernised version of the A320 anyway. I am sure there are some tricks that Airbus could learn from the Cseries to make their A320 range even better as well!

danj555 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:58 pm

How will Delta not have to pay tariffs now? The 220% tariff is on the product, not the manufacturer.

ikolkyo · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:58 pm

danj555 wrote:
How will Delta not have to pay tariffs now? The 220% tariff is on the product, not the manufacturer.

They plan to produce the CSeries in Mobile.

pugman211 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:59 pm

Being reported on FlightGlobal too

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... mm-442213/

ACCS300 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:00 pm

CFM565A1 wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
I'll bet AC is wishing they'd never gone with the MAX now. I see both major Canadian carriers hugely supporting this partnership especially in the wake of Boeing's tanking image here.

Mr. WestJet has shown a bit of anti-Bombardier sentiment when they refused to defer the Q400 orders... I won't get into that as it's done. WS will still support Boeing (as they should and I hate admitting that), why waste a good longstanding relationship with them and a plane that fits them well.

Air Canada, who knows they could reduce the 737 order and ship them to Rouge or possibly give Rouge a new fleet, but I think too much time and money has been put into the 737 prep so I say nothing will happen... now if this had been 2 years ago then I'd consider the opposite.

Agreed but AC may exercise less options ( 18 options and 30 purchase rights ) on the MAX and add more CSeries in their place, which I hope happens.

RTW00 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:00 pm

Great news...but will it kill the competition? Are we back to A vs B only.

WaywardMemphian · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:00 pm

Boeing had it's chance to buy the C-Series when it exposed an apparent gap in its line up. Instead they wanted to destroy it. Now, they will pay.

I bought Bombardier at a buck. I'm happy.

Watch the orders roll in now.

The US gains more jobs in Alabama, keeps the supplier jobs and the anti dumping tariffs will go away.

Boeing really eff'd up.

ikolkyo · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:01 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
I'll bet AC is wishing they'd never gone with the MAX now. I see both major Canadian carriers hugely supporting this partnership especially in the wake of Boeing's tanking image here.

Mr. WestJet has shown a bit of anti-Bombardier sentiment when they refused to defer the Q400 orders... I won't get into that as it's done. WS will still support Boeing (as they should and I hate admitting that), why waste a good longstanding relationship with them and a plane that fits them well.

Air Canada, who knows they could reduce the 737 order and ship them to Rouge or possibly give Rouge a new fleet, but I think too much time and money has been put into the 737 prep so I say nothing will happen... now if this had been 2 years ago then I'd consider the opposite.

Agreed but AC may exercise less options ( 18 options and 30 purchase rights ) on the MAX and add more CSeries in their place, which I hope happens.

With 45 CS300s on order I think that capacity segment is locked down, I honestly could see part of it being converted to CS100s. AC will exercise options for the MAX without a doubt, CSeries has no aircraft for the 150+ market.

SheikhDjibouti · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:02 pm

This has caught me totally by surprise, so forgive me if this is a wild idea;
Could it be that Delta are now going to cancel their order for Canadian-built CS100s,
....... and instead take delivery of 45 almost identical A317s made in the good ol' USA?

KATL2 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:02 pm

Bloomberg article https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... et-program

Airbus will own 50.01%
Bombardier will own 31%
Quebec will own 19%

(I realize those percentages don't add completely up, I'm simply posting what the article says)

Airbus will add CSeries production to their Alabama plant

ikolkyo · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:04 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:

Agreed but AC may exercise less options ( 18 options and 30 purchase rights ) on the MAX and add more CSeries in their place, which I hope happens.

With 45 CS300s on order I think that capacity segment is locked down, I honestly could see part of it being converted to CS100s. AC will exercise options for the MAX without a doubt, CSeries has no aircraft for the 150+ market.

...or AC could opt for the A321neo like they should have in the first place.

Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

golfradio · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:04 pm

Karma. As Sun Tzu said, "Never back an enemy into a corner". Now Boeing's nightmare is just beginning.

Airbus buys itself breathing room by allowing C-Series to carry on with the 100-150 and potentially an A320 replacement in the form of a CS-500. While Airbus itself focuses on a response to a potential Boeing MoM initiative.

A great win for Airbus and a good out for BBD.

MD80MKE · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:04 pm

Idk why it doesn't allow me to modify the the first post anymore. But according to LeahamNews, Delta could wait for the Modile Assembly line to finish before taking delivery.

@Bombardier: @Delta has option to wait for Mobile

https://twitter.com/LeehamNews/status/9 ... 9951094784

ikolkyo · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:05 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:

Agreed but AC may exercise less options ( 18 options and 30 purchase rights ) on the MAX and add more CSeries in their place, which I hope happens.

With 45 CS300s on order I think that capacity segment is locked down, I honestly could see part of it being converted to CS100s. AC will exercise options for the MAX without a doubt, CSeries has no aircraft for the 150+ market.

...or AC could opt for the A321neo like they should have in the first place.

Possible but again, sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

scbriml · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:05 pm

danj555 wrote:
How will Delta not have to pay tariffs now? The 220% tariff is on the product, not the manufacturer.

Is it not an import tariff? If the plane is built in Mobile for US customers then it won't be imported.

ExDubai · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:06 pm

danj555 wrote:
How will Delta not have to pay tariffs now? The 220% tariff is on the product, not the manufacturer.

Because of the production line in Mobile/Alabama.

Samrnpage · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:06 pm

As per the article

"The transaction has been approved by the Boards of Directors of both Airbus and Bombardier, as well as the Cabinet of the Government of Québec. The transaction remains subject to regulatory approvals, as well as other conditions usual in this type of transaction. There are no guarantees that the transaction will be completed and that the conditions to which it is subject would be met. Completion of the transaction is currently expected for the second half of 2018"

second half of next year looks like the moment when all of this will be finalised and put through - boeing maybe able to butt in and try and stop it but I doubt itll be of any use.

ACCS300 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:06 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:

Mr. WestJet has shown a bit of anti-Bombardier sentiment when they refused to defer the Q400 orders... I won't get into that as it's done. WS will still support Boeing (as they should and I hate admitting that), why waste a good longstanding relationship with them and a plane that fits them well.

Air Canada, who knows they could reduce the 737 order and ship them to Rouge or possibly give Rouge a new fleet, but I think too much time and money has been put into the 737 prep so I say nothing will happen... now if this had been 2 years ago then I'd consider the opposite.

Agreed but AC may exercise less options ( 18 options and 30 purchase rights ) on the MAX and add more CSeries in their place, which I hope happens.

With 45 CS300s on order I think that capacity segment is locked down, I honestly could see part of it being converted to CS100s. AC will exercise options for the MAX without a doubt, CSeries has no aircraft for the 150+ market.

...or AC could opt for the A321neo like they should have in the first place.

rheinlaender · Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:07 pm

danj555 wrote:
How will Delta not have to pay tariffs now? The 220% tariff is on the product, not the manufacturer.

By producing the Delta Aircraft in Mobile, AL and importing the parts from their respective manufacturing plant (i.e. Northern Ireland) into the US or not exporting them to Canada in the first place.
Then starting a trade war against the european union might be less winable then against canada from an US point of view.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net