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gzm
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Tue May 22, 2018 3:37 am

salttee wrote:
corroborated fact: Zaharie was an extreme political radical
corroborated fact: Zaharie had practiced a nearly identical flight plan to the Southern Ocean on his home flight simulator.
corroborated fact: Zaharie was one of the very few people who would have been capable of manipulating the system and executing the known flight regime after turnover.

1.That's how he managed to make a victim out of himself. He was the perfect culprit.
2.When the authorities have all the time in the world to take your computer and plant this evidence who would stop them,the terrified maid? But it was a last-minute crew change, he was on stand-by status that day,you cannot say it was premeditated in advance, you lose your point.
3.He was at the controls, that's for sure,there is no need to say it was someone else but when you have a terrorist in the cockpit who makes you disable your communications what can you do?
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Tue May 22, 2018 4:14 am

gzm wrote:
salttee wrote:
corroborated fact: Zaharie was an extreme political radical
corroborated fact: Zaharie had practiced a nearly identical flight plan to the Southern Ocean on his home flight simulator.
corroborated fact: Zaharie was one of the very few people who would have been capable of manipulating the system and executing the known flight regime after turnover.

1.That's how he managed to make a victim out of himself. He was the perfect culprit.
2.When the authorities have all the time in the world to take your computer and plant this evidence who would stop them,the terrified maid? But it was a last-minute crew change, he was on stand-by status that day,you cannot say it was premeditated in advance, you lose your point.
3.He was at the controls, that's for sure,there is no need to say it was someone else but when you have a terrorist in the cockpit who makes you disable your communications what can you do?
You are really grasping at straws. Now you need the premise that the US FBI doctored information in order to substantiate your theory; after all, they were the ones who examined Z's computers.

Nice to see you agree that he was at the controls, that eliminates 90% of the smoke and mirrors theories that always run counter to the evidence.
 
747megatop
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Tue May 22, 2018 8:19 pm

Came accross this today - https://abcnews.go.com/International/wi ... y-55345160

Other questions that i have

1) Did any authority try to replicate the exact INMARSAT "pings" observed by physically flying a plane along the suspected path?
2) Let's say someone attempted to do that with the same type of airctaft as MH 370; would it have enough fuel to go to that remote portion in the southern Indian ocean from Malaysia and then make it safely to Perth?
3) What is the possibility of strong underwater currents having moved the wreckage significantly enough that the remote submersibles missed finding anything because of that? (i highly doubt that currents can move everything including heavy parts without leaving a trace but still just asking to try to understand what the current do...from someone knowledgeable to familiar with it).
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Tue May 22, 2018 11:14 pm

747megatop wrote:
Came accross this today - https://abcnews.go.com/International/wi ... y-55345160

Other questions that i have

1) Did any authority try to replicate the exact INMARSAT "pings" observed by physically flying a plane along the suspected path?
2) Let's say someone attempted to do that with the same type of airctaft as MH 370; would it have enough fuel to go to that remote portion in the southern Indian ocean from Malaysia and then make it safely to Perth?
3) What is the possibility of strong underwater currents having moved the wreckage significantly enough that the remote submersibles missed finding anything because of that? (i highly doubt that currents can move everything including heavy parts without leaving a trace but still just asking to try to understand what the current do...from someone knowledgeable to familiar with it).


1) No. Data was just compared to data from various other flights to look for similarities.

2) Yes. A fully fuelled 777-200ER could easily test fly that route, especially without pax, cargo, etc.

3) I suspect solid, heavy parts like the engine cores and landing gear wouldn't be taken too far horizontally on the way to the bottom. There should be some items within a few kilometers of the impact point. Having said that, look how far the flaperon and other items with buoyancy made it. Also, items on the sea floor could be covered by a lot of silt by now - who knows if such items would be visible without stiring up the silt.

The shipwrecks that the search vessel has found are visible, but has anything been detected that is not visible due to being under silt? I just want to know the capabilites of this technology, and if it could detect something like an engine core covered by a few feet of silt that far down? I often wonder if wreckage has been missed due to being covered by silt. I'd like to see an old 777 engine core dropped down at the deepest point in that area, so they know exactly where it is supposed to be, and then see just how well it is detected when they send the toys down.
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747megatop
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Wed May 23, 2018 5:39 am

777Jet wrote:
The shipwrecks that the search vessel has found are visible, but has anything been detected that is not visible due to being under silt? I just want to know the capabilites of this technology, and if it could detect something like an engine core covered by a few feet of silt that far down? I often wonder if wreckage has been missed due to being covered by silt. I'd like to see an old 777 engine core dropped down at the deepest point in that area, so they know exactly where it is supposed to be, and then see just how well it is detected when they send the toys down.

https://calhoun.nps.edu/bitstream/handl ... quence%3D1
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Wed May 23, 2018 6:43 am

It's all over folks, Mahathir is pulling the plug on the search.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mala ... SKCN1IO0IX

A government with Anwar Ibrahim in it will want to sweep the MH-370 story under the rug for obvious reasons.
 
c933103
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Wed May 23, 2018 7:44 am

salttee wrote:
It's all over folks, Mahathir is pulling the plug on the search.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mala ... SKCN1IO0IX

A government with Anwar Ibrahim in it will want to sweep the MH-370 story under the rug for obvious reasons.

They are reviewing everything signed by the previous government with this search contract reported as one of them here; how will they proceed remain to be seen.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Wed May 23, 2018 8:42 am

Regarding the on-going search: Seabed Constructor is now approaching the area where the Chinese ship Haixun01 had received some signals in April 2014. What was the common opinion about these signals?
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Wed May 23, 2018 9:27 am

So Ocean Infinity already finished the search of the target area back in April but was granted an extension to May 29... Who is paying for this? They found nothing in the contracted area so they won't get paid, but wanted to keep searching for another month anyway so basically they are unnecessarily throwing more of their own money at the search... Anyway, good for Ocean Infinity. If only others that matter were as dedicated and determined.

If this happened to a US, European, or almost any other airline for that matter, do you think we would still be without a wreckage site after so long?
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ltbewr
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Wed May 23, 2018 9:59 am

Sadly, there comes a point of time and how much money can be spent to continue the search for MH370. Insurers, reinsurers and governments will just want to pay settlements rather than spend many millions more for what may be not possible and where have to pay out anyway. Yes, we all want answers to this terrible event but sometimes you have to end a search for practical reasons, despite political, cultural and emotional pressures.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Wed May 23, 2018 3:32 pm

salttee wrote:
corroborated fact: Zaharie was an extreme political radical


Uncorroborated BS. And yet that seems to be the basis of your convictions...

He was a member of Anwar's party (who - far from being extreme - have now won the election with the support of the majority of Malaysians). Big deal.

CNN wrote:
Malaysian political scientist Wong Chin Huat said that while close scrutiny of the potential motivations of anyone onboard is warranted, he believes the speculated link to Malaysian domestic politics was a "red herring."

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/18/worl ... index.html

He was distantly related to Anwar's daughter in law, but they had only met a handful of times. Everything else was baseless rumour from misinformation probably spread by the now ousted government. That kind of corruption is exactly what Anwar was campaigning against - so how does that make Zaharie in any way radical?
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Wed May 23, 2018 5:48 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Uncorroborated BS. And yet that seems to be the basis of your convictions...
Not at all the (sole) basis of my convictions. I will remove that point (not concede it, just remove it), and replace it with two more.

corroborated fact: Zaharie's daughter said he hadn't been the same for the couple of months prior to March 8th
corroborated fact: The soaring chandelle turn reported by radar at IGARI could only have been accomplished by an an experienced aerobatic pilot, which Z indeed was.
corroborated fact: Zaharie made a call to an (illegal) unregistered cell phone before takeoff at KL
corroborated fact: First officer Fariq had handled comms up until the last message
corroborated fact: Zaharie was the one on the microphone at FIR turnover
corroborated fact: Zaharie logged out of KLATCC but never logged into HCMATCC
corroborated fact: Loss of comms after logging out but before logging in at FIR turnover creates an unusual circumstance which delays being reported "missing" by an extra hour
corroborated fact: Zaharie had practiced a nearly identical flight plan to the Southern Ocean on his home flight simulator.
corroborated fact: Zaharie was one of the very few people who would have been capable of manipulating the system and executing the known flight regime after turnover
corroborated fact: Zaharie's friend Anwar Ibrahim had his five year prison sentence for homosexuality upheld earlier in the day of the disappearance.
corroborated fact: The flight regimen flown after turnaround cannot be attributed to accident - the plane was obviously under control of a pilot
corroborated fact: The only other person on the plane who knew how to fly a plane was his very junior First officer.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Wed May 23, 2018 6:26 pm

salttee wrote:
corroborated fact: Zaharie's daughter said he hadn't been the same for the couple of months prior to March 8th

IIRC, his wife said that she had no more „access“ to him as well, correct me if I’m wrong.

(don’t know if „access“ is the correct term but you know what I mean)
 
c933103
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Wed May 23, 2018 8:22 pm

With the amount of fuel onboard the aircraft, was it impossible for the aircraft to crash onto Antarctica?
 
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BaconButty
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 1:31 am

There's so much BS here it's untrue. I'll pick a couple of Saltee's "Corroborated Facts"..
salttee wrote:
corroborated fact: Zaharie's daughter said he hadn't been the same for the couple of months prior to March 8th

The tabloids carried a lot of stuff that was retracted and denied. However a detailed Psychological evaluation was performed and the details leaked. Here is some excerpts from the summary (Google translate to English so excuse the grammar):

5. Based on these reference sources, we have studied the background Zaharie including education, personality and coping (coping style), relationship with spouse, children, family members, friends and colleagues, including his interests and hobbies. Attention has also been given to her relationship with her maid. His physical health problems are investigated including asthma and diseases of the spine, which caused him to have to take treatment drugs painkillers “analgesics.” Religious and political tendencies he observed.
...
7.2 Available Zaharie not share the same interests with his family members. However, the difference in interest is acceptable. His family was also not reported any change of pattern of behavior (behavioral pattern) before his flight was on 07/03/2014.
7.3 Information from friends and colleagues Zaharie show that he was a friendly, warm and jokes. They are also not reported any change of pattern of behavior before his flight was on 03/07/2014.
...
7.5 Review of comparisons based recording video clips CCTV KLIA on 26.02.2014, 03.03.2014 and 03.07.2014, found him tending to smoke before her flight and movements of his time smoking was similar in all three videos. At KLIA CCTV video clip on 03/07/2014, Zaharie not show any sign of anxiety or depression.

Finally, we have not found, any changes in terms of psychological, social and behavioral patterns Zaharie Ahman Shah before his flight was on 03/07/2014..


So much for your "Facts".

salttee wrote:
corroborated fact: First officer Fariq had handled comms up until the last message
corroborated fact: Zaharie was the one on the microphone at FIR turnover

Firstly, if the last voice heard is Zaharie's it doesn't mean a great deal. For all I know, Fariq could have been standing behind him with a garrote. However you're mixing in some porky pies again. The audio analysis can be found here.
"First officer Fariq had handled comms up until the last message" - nope. Based on the analysis, Z. made all communications (9 in total) from 12:42 to 01:19 - around 37 minutes.
"Zaharie was the one on the microphone at FIR turnover" - probably true, but not certain. The software in question compares voice recordings and outputs a figure based on the level of match. 2.5 indicates 99.5% certainty. In the last three communications Z.'s score was 1.47 (Fariqs was 0.88). In the previous 6 communications attributed to Z. the score was 2.28-2.74. It's probably down to noise, but like I say, maybe not.

salttee wrote:
corroborated fact: Zaharie had practiced a nearly identical flight plan to the Southern Ocean on his home flight simulator.

He didn't actually. What we have is 7 points from fragments of a .flt file (flight sim saved game). We know they're from the same session because some aggregate data like Max Bank angle is consistent. 5 points go up the Malacca Straits, and two are in the SIO - so far so damning. However:
  • The sim aircraft wasn't piloted between the two sets of points - the fuel doesn't tally. What he seems to have done it hand fly up the M.S, as if going to LHR say, then "drag and drop" the virtual aircraft into the SIO. To what end? Was it just a patch of sea to practice doing a "Sully"?
  • The final point is in the SIO, but it's 1000 miles off the 7th arc. I.e. nowhere near.
  • The'res no evidence of what would have been the key part of the flight to practice - the flight back over Malaysia
  • This is one of no less than 700 .flt files across the various hard disks

So what at first looks incriminating isn't particularly. And that's why the likes of the ATSB didn't make a big deal of it.

There's plenty more lies amongst your "facts" - Zaharie wasn't a "friend" of Anwar Ibrahim for example. Fariq "Very Junior"? He had been with the airline since 2007 - nearly 3000 hours. He's not the complete rookie you portray. One thing I will say - the lack of retrospective indicators of a suicidal frame of mind is stunning. That stands in stark contrast to every other pilot murder-suicide.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 3:06 am

BaconButty wrote:
a detailed Psychological evaluation was performed and the details leaked.
Your rebuttal for numerous newspaper articles and interviews with family members is based on a report from the Malaysians? The same people who left the search in the SCS go on for eight days even though they knew by dawn that he had turned around? Not me.
I'll give you that his Facebook account was deleted, so I can't post his own words against your misguided pilot's union defense of what is clearly a mass murderer, but this still remains:
Image

BaconButty wrote:
"First officer Fariq had handled comms up until the last message" - nope. Based on the analysis, Z. made all communications (9 in total) from 12:42 to 01:19 - around 37 minutes.
The software in question compares voice recordings and outputs a figure based on the level of match. 2.5 indicates 99.5% certainty. In the last three communications Z.'s score was 1.47 (Fariqs was 0.88). In the previous 6 communications attributed to Z. the score was 2.28-2.74. It's probably down to noise, but like I say, maybe not.
I don't know anything about your 1.47s and 0.88s but I do have an MP3 copy of the actual audio transactions of MH-370 that night right here on my hard disk, this is the recording that leads myself and everyone else to agree that the signoff voice is different from all the earlier comms. This is an established fact BaconButty, this is not controversial.

BaconButty wrote:
Firstly, if the last voice heard is Zaharie's it doesn't mean a great deal. For all I know, Fariq could have been standing behind him with a garrote.
Yea right! Fariq with a garrote. :hyper: You made a lot of chatter, but you essentially agreed with my statement, so why bring it up?

BaconButty wrote:
He didn't actually. What we have is 7 points from fragments of a .flt file (flight sim saved game). What he seems to have done it hand fly up the M.S, as if going to LHR say, then "drag and drop" the virtual aircraft into the SIO. To what end? Was it just a patch of sea to practice doing a "Sully"?
[*]The final point is in the SIO, but it's 1000 miles off the 7th arc. I.e. nowhere near.
[*]The'res no evidence of what would have been the key part of the flight to practice - the flight back over Malaysia
[*] This is one of no less than 700 .flt files across the various hard disks [/list]
So what at first looks incriminating isn't particularly. And that's why the likes of the ATSB didn't make a big deal of it.
I didn't make that big a deal of it either, it is just one point among many.

BaconButty wrote:
Zaharie wasn't a "friend" of Anwar Ibrahim
Again you play on the fact that Zaharie deleted his Facebook account. You can't deny that they were connected and Anwar Ibrahim had had his sentence for homosexuality upheld the morning of the day of the flight. Sure, it is in Anwar Ibrahim's interests to deny their past relationships, who would want to be publicly associated with a mass murderer? especially a politician.

BaconButty wrote:
Fariq "Very Junior"? He had been with the airline since 2007 - nearly 3000 hours. He's not the complete rookie you portray.
I didn't say he was a rookie. He was very junior to Zaharie, this was his first flight as FO on a 777 without a training pilot.


The world has passed you by BaconButty, give up your lost cause. All you're doing is to try and cover up for a mass murderer anyway.
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 3:59 am

Hearing archived recordings of previous ATC hand-offs spoken by both MH370 pilots to see how long they usually take to check-in with the next ATC would have been useful. This task is often done within seconds. There was no mention of any problem to ATC earlier and the plane had been flying for some time. For some kind of special accident to have happened in those seconds it usually takes to check-in with the next ATC followed by what the aircraft allegedly did over the next several hours... The odds... How many seconds after the final "Good night Malaysian 370" transmission went psst until systems started going offline? How many seconds do these pilots usually take to check in with the next ATC? How did the plane turn around? How did the plane turn near Penang? How did the plane turn towards the SIO? How did just the SatCom come back online? How did the plane manage to fly for a duration pretty consistent with its fuel load? This was intentional and there was nothing wrong with the plane. This was not caused by somebody accidently spilling their cup of coffee.
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 6:48 am

I'm just wondering why my posts bringing two new reports were deleted. One was BBC discussing the fact that the ATSB have completely rejected the 60 minutes report. That was (surprise surprise) a theory by some Canadian trying to sell a book.

The other was from Channel News Asia (based in Singapore) confirming that Mahathir said the search will wrap up on the 29th of May.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
gzm
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 10:59 am

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
I'm just wondering why my posts bringing two new reports were deleted. One was BBC discussing the fact that the ATSB have completely rejected the 60 minutes report. That was (surprise surprise) a theory by some Canadian trying to sell a book.

We are suspecting the same thing...
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 11:10 am

gzm wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
I'm just wondering why my posts bringing two new reports were deleted. One was BBC discussing the fact that the ATSB have completely rejected the 60 minutes report. That was (surprise surprise) a theory by some Canadian trying to sell a book.

We are suspecting the same thing...


Well let's see if they let me post it this time...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-44216778
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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BaconButty
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 12:29 pm

salttee wrote:
Your rebuttal for numerous newspaper articles and interviews with family members is based on a report from the Malaysians? The same people who left the search in the SCS go on for eight days even though they knew by dawn that he had turned around? Not me.

The behavioural patter and psychological report was carried out in conjunction with the acedemics listed on page 111 of this document. The phonetics report I referred to was written by Prof. HJ Kunzel. Feel free to google him - something of an expert in forensic speaker identification. Are these guys in on the conspiracy? Given that most of the (now debunked) stories about Zaharie originated in the British tabloid press, not least the Daily Mail, then yes, I will prefer the academic sources. I can only assume you don't live in the UK and are unfamiliar with our press, though I thought their notoriety had spread somewhat.
salttee wrote:
You made a lot of chatter, but you essentially agreed with my statement, so why bring it up?

No I don't. You were lying with your "corroborated fact" (do you even know what those words mean?) that "Fariq had handled comms up until the last message" - i.e. implying that Z. intervened at the end. I'm also pointing out that there is a significant degree of uncertainty about who actually uttered the last three sentences.
salttee wrote:
I don't know anything about your 1.47s and 0.88s but I do have an MP3 copy of the actual audio transactions of MH-370 that night right here on my hard disk, this is the recording that leads myself and everyone else to agree that the signoff voice is different from all the earlier comms. This is an established fact BaconButty, this is not controversial.

Then read the report. The numbers and methodology are explained there. If you're too thick or lazy I can't help you. But are you saying that you have better credentials in forensic voice id than Prof Kunzel? I'd be interested to know your methodologies, and not least, where you obtained the reference voice recordings from previous flights. Except you're just some bloke whose listened to the edited highlights and thinks, brexit style, that you've "had enough of experts".
salttee wrote:
I didn't make that big a deal of it either, it is just one point among many.

You should do. The flight sim data is the only legitimate evidence pointing to Z. But, like so much, it's been overstated.People have put the points on google earth as a path, when they certainly weren't done like that - in fact, as far as I can make out we don't know that the Malacca Straits points precede the SIO ones.
salttee wrote:
pilot's union defense

FFS. Can't you tell the difference between that and someone with an open mind? It may even have happened as you say. But there's difficulties with that, and 99% of the evidence that points to him in particular has been rebuffed.
salttee wrote:
All you're doing is to try and cover up for a mass murderer anyway.

This place has gone downhill.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 12:37 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
I'm just wondering why my posts bringing two new reports were deleted. One was BBC discussing the fact that the ATSB have completely rejected the 60 minutes report. That was (surprise surprise) a theory by some Canadian trying to sell a book.

The other was from Channel News Asia (based in Singapore) confirming that Mahathir said the search will wrap up on the 29th of May.


There was no 60 Minutes report. 60 Minutes is a television programme. The recent 60 Minutes programme on MH370 included a panel discussion. Former ATSB Chief Commissioner Martin Dolan was also on the panel. The "some Canadian" you refer to was Larry Vance, a former Canadian air crash investigator who worked on SR111, therefore making his observations about the flaperon condition and what wreckage from an uncontrolled crash into the ocean should look like credible. What you imply about him comes as no surprise.
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salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 1:09 pm

BaconButty wrote:
salttee wrote:
Your rebuttal for numerous newspaper articles and interviews with family members is based on a report from the Malaysians? The same people who left the search in the SCS go on for eight days even though they knew by dawn that he had turned around? Not me.

The behavioural patter and psychological report was carried out in conjunction with the acedemics listed on page 111 of this document. The phonetics report I referred to was written by Prof. HJ Kunzel. Feel free to google him - something of an expert in forensic speaker identification. Are these guys in on the conspiracy? Given that most of the (now debunked) stories about Zaharie originated in the British tabloid press, not least the Daily Mail, then yes, I will prefer the academic sources. I can only assume you don't live in the UK and are unfamiliar with our press, though I thought their notoriety had spread somewhat.
The information about Z's political extremism came from many different sources, including Malaysian sources. You are just boring in on the fact that his Facebook account was deleted, so the hard evidence is now gone. But you are alone in claiming that it never existed.
BaconButty wrote:
salttee wrote:
You made a lot of chatter, but you essentially agreed with my statement, so why bring it up?

No I don't. You were lying with your "corroborated fact" (do you even know what those words mean?) that "Fariq had handled comms up until the last message" - i.e. implying that Z. intervened at the end. I'm also pointing out that there is a significant degree of uncertainty about who actually uttered the last three sentences.
There is no such uncertainty.
BaconButty wrote:
salttee wrote:
I don't know anything about your 1.47s and 0.88s but I do have an MP3 copy of the actual audio transactions of MH-370 that night right here on my hard disk, this is the recording that leads myself and everyone else to agree that the signoff voice is different from all the earlier comms. This is an established fact BaconButty, this is not controversial.

Then read the report. The numbers and methodology are explained there. If you're too thick or lazy I can't help you. But are you saying that you have better credentials in forensic voice id than Prof Kunzel? I'd be interested to know your methodologies, and not least, where you obtained the reference voice recordings from previous flights. Except you're just some bloke whose listened to the edited highlights and thinks, brexit style, that you've "had enough of experts".
What it comes down to is should I believe you or believe my own eyes (in this case ears); Faraq was the pilot monitoring until turnover, he handled comms, then at FIR turnover Z was on the microphone and everything went sour.
BaconButty wrote:
salttee wrote:
pilot's union defense
FFS. Can't you tell the difference between that and someone with an open mind?
How open is your mind when you don't realize that that argument can be turned against you?
BaconButty wrote:
99% of the evidence that points to him in particular has been rebuffed.
No it hasn't
BaconButty wrote:
salttee wrote:
I didn't make that big a deal of it either, it is just one point among many.

You should do. The flight sim data is the only legitimate evidence pointing to Z. But, like so much, it's been overstated.People have put the points on google earth as a path, when they certainly weren't done like that - in fact, as far as I can make out we don't know that the Malacca Straits points precede the SIO ones.
The flight simulator is not the only evidence pointing to Z, I listed 12 valid pieces of evidence. Also, you are the first person I know of to attempt to rebut the flight simulator data, and you have nothing to back up your version.

And all you're doing is trying to cover up for a mass murderer.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 3:21 pm

Saltee, when you keep saying he is trying to cover up for a mass murderer, it really speaks to your character, which in turn denigrates your own argument.

For clarity, what are you claiming is BB’s motivation for covering up for a mass murderer?
-Dave
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 3:47 pm

777Jet wrote:
There was no 60 Minutes report. 60 Minutes is a television programme..


Are you seriously nitpicking that I said report instead of programme... really?

The "some Canadian" you refer to was Larry Vance, a former Canadian air crash investigator who worked on SR111, therefore making his observations about the flaperon condition and what wreckage from an uncontrolled crash into the ocean should look like credible.


Credibility considerably undermined by a) not having the agreement of any of his peers and b) trying to sell a book on the basis of "a new angle".


What you imply about him comes as no surprise.


Genuinely don't know what I implied (other than that he's not a very reliable source considering the above) or why that's no surprise.

Does the opinion of the BBC and the ATSB come as no surprise either?
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 7:45 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
what are you claiming is BB’s motivation for covering up for a mass murderer?
Actually I haven't delved into BB's motive. But since you ask, I would guess that it's blind zealotry to his cause: defending airline pilots in any case under any circumstance. I don't know whether to attribute it to callousness or thoughtlessness, it's not my job to make that assessment.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 8:33 pm

salttee wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
what are you claiming is BB’s motivation for covering up for a mass murderer?
Actually I haven't delved into BB's motive. But since you ask, I would guess that it's blind zealotry to his cause: defending airline pilots in any case under any circumstance. I don't know whether to attribute it to callousness or thoughtlessness, it's not my job to make that assessment.


Then what exactly is “your job”?
-Dave
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 9:08 pm

I'm retired.
"It's not my job" is a figure of speech.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 10:15 pm

salttee wrote:
I'm retired.
"It's not my job" is a figure of speech.


Yes, I’m aware of that which is why I used quotations. But nice deflection.
-Dave
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 10:17 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
777Jet wrote:
There was no 60 Minutes report. 60 Minutes is a television programme..


Are you seriously nitpicking that I said report instead of programme... really?

The "some Canadian" you refer to was Larry Vance, a former Canadian air crash investigator who worked on SR111, therefore making his observations about the flaperon condition and what wreckage from an uncontrolled crash into the ocean should look like credible.


Credibility considerably undermined by a) not having the agreement of any of his peers and b) trying to sell a book on the basis of "a new angle".


What you imply about him comes as no surprise.


Genuinely don't know what I implied (other than that he's not a very reliable source considering the above) or why that's no surprise.

Does the opinion of the BBC and the ATSB come as no surprise either?


1) Not nitpicking. A television programme ultimately trying to get more views and higher ratings than programmes on competing channels does not carry the weight of a report, let alone an official / formal report on the topic.

2) Did you even watch the programme? Simon Hardy, the 777 pilot, reached a similar conclusion, and even flew the ditching scenario with the 60 Minutes host in the simulator with him. Even Dolan said he believes MH370 was intentional but that the ATSB is going with the uncontrolled ending (we don't know his personal view on the ending because how dare he say something that might differ with the political ATSB which he oversaw for so long).

The ditching scenario is far from new and is therefore not "a new angle" worthy of trying to make money from. You know very well how long it has been discussed. No need to waste money on a book given all the free stuff available on the Internet.

3) My "no surprise" comment was referring that it came as no surprise that you, true to past form, try to discredit or talk down anybody who thinks the 'pilot did it' scenario in the most likely.

Anyway, the ending makes no difference to the likelihood that a pilot intentionally did this. The ending only makes a difference in regards to where to search; how far did the plane fly after that final ping and where did it impact the ocean? That's it. The flaperon condition makes me lean towards the ditching scenario. Maybe the pilot ditched the plane in the hope it would remain mostly intact or in larger pieces, sink, and never be found. The risk with that is that if the CVR / FDR is ever recovered it might shed on who did what / what was going on. If the perpetrator wanted to leave fewer clues as to their involvement the uncontrolled ending makes more sense; set the autopilot, remove oxygen supply, and let hypoxia set in. No human noises would be heard on CVR and no control inputs on FDR. Either ending fits a pilot did this scenario just fine.
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salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Thu May 24, 2018 11:12 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
salttee wrote:
I'm retired.
"It's not my job" is a figure of speech.


Yes, I’m aware of that which is why I used quotations. But nice deflection.
Nice deflection from what? How I make my money is none of your business.
 
moa999
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Fri May 25, 2018 12:00 am

The issue with the ditching scenario is the search area is 100+ x larger - something that is simply not viable to search.

My other issue with it is that the plane flew 5hrs on autopilot - only viable explanation for the distance covered.

If you were truly trying to 'hide' the aircraft and thought all tracking was off, why fly straight.

My personal view is everyone in the cockpit, either by design or accident, was incapacitated and the plane just flew on autopilot, ergo the search area is the best shot we've got.
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Fri May 25, 2018 2:10 am

moa999 wrote:
The issue with the ditching scenario is the search area is 100+ x larger - something that is simply not viable to search.

My other issue with it is that the plane flew 5hrs on autopilot - only viable explanation for the distance covered.

If you were truly trying to 'hide' the aircraft and thought all tracking was off, why fly straight.

My personal view is everyone in the cockpit, either by design or accident, was incapacitated and the plane just flew on autopilot, ergo the search area is the best shot we've got.


Yes, the search area would be many times larger if the plane flew a long glide in any direction from the final ping location (wherever on the final arc that was to begin with).

As for flying for hours on autopilot before disconnecting at the end... So what? That's how flights usually operate. The pilots usually only hand flies the takeoff and a few minutes prior to the landing anyway. I don't see why the perpetrator would not have had the autopilot fly the plane for as long as possible.

Flying it straight would have gotten the plane as far away from land as possible and made any search / recovery more difficult.

The ATSB was very confident with the data it has (the ending was uncontrolled because the data put the plane in a high speed dive at the end they say). They were so convincing Ocean Infinity entered into the no find no fee deal. The search was completed in April. No MH370. Ocean Infinity got permission from Malaysia to extend the search until 29 May despite the area indicated by the good information to be wrong. Is the data good? Has the data been interpreted correctly? If yes, then why was the plane not where the data put it? Maybe the ATSB got the ending wrong and the plane is resting 100 miles away. Maybe the plane is sadly resting just outside the search area and will be missed by one sweep of the underwater equipment. Who knows. But with the absence of the wreckage despite the ATSB's convincing information, the flaperon condition, Z's SIO flight sim data... maybe the plane was flown as far as it could have been and was ditched in the end?
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kitplane01
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri May 25, 2018 5:12 am

Whywhyjay wrote:
Having read through all the MH370 threads over the years I hesitate to post here. However, I am glad to hear that a search may resume. Surely Boeing must also have a big interest in seeing the search re-started, I would think that they want to know as a company once and for all what caused this. Does Boeing still have a team or office investigating this, and have they contributed financially to the searches?


I don't think that's true. The broad consensus is that the commanded cockpit action. Some other people do not agree. I might be wrong about this .. but my impression is that the Malaysian government would rather almost anything than that. I am willing to be corrected.

1) The wreck is found, and proves commanded cockpit action. This will probably convince no one (and certainly not the Malaysian government). The discussion seems to be not evidence-based (see vaccines, etc.) So no benefit to Boeing.

2) The wreck is found and is inconclusive. Everyone will just continue believing what the did before. So no benefit to Boeing.

3) The wreck is found and it proves a technical problem with the aircraft. Now Boeing has problems.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Fri May 25, 2018 10:40 am

777Jet wrote:
moa999 wrote:
The issue with the ditching scenario is the search area is 100+ x larger - something that is simply not viable to search.

The ATSB was very confident with the data it has (the ending was uncontrolled because the data put the plane in a high speed dive at the end they say). They were so convincing Ocean Infinity entered into the no find no fee deal.

That's what I do not understand. I thought the signal was just a ping. How can they know the plane was in a high speed dive at the end?

Regarding the ditching scenario itself: for me it's impossible to come to a coherent theory.
(+) the pilot was a passionate pilot. You would think he would have preferred to complete this flight by ditching
(+) if the pilot wanted to "hide" the plane ditching would make sense due to less debris.
(-) in this scenario the pilot had the intention to kill himself. But ditching the plane, if successful, would mean you will have to die from drowning. That's not what I would prefer.
 
WarrenPlatts
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Fri May 25, 2018 10:50 pm

777Jet wrote:
Also, items on the sea floor could be covered by a lot of silt by now - who knows if such items would be visible without stiring up the silt.


The sedimentation rates out in the middle of the ocean like that are extremely slow, like on the order of 0.01 to 0.05 mm/year. If you'll recall that one shipwreck they found, the old school anchor was perfectly depicted like it was a photograph. I don't know if they ever figured out how old that wreck was, but apparently it was from the wooden ship era. So if an anchor is still visible after 100 years or more, any aircraft parts would be pretty obvious IMHO. 4 or 5 years is nothing on the bottom of the SIO's time scale.
 
WarrenPlatts
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Fri May 25, 2018 11:31 pm

N14AZ wrote:
That's what I do not understand. I thought the signal was just a ping. How can they know the plane was in a high speed dive at the end?


It mainly has to do with the BFO (Burst Frequency Offset) aspect of the pings. The BFO supposedly went haywire at the last ping, consistent with a high speed dive. Also, simulations show that without controlled inputs, a B777 goes into an uncontrolled, corkscrew dive after it runs out of fuel. The relatively intact flaperon is chalked up to "flutter"--at the high speeds of the proposed dive, the flaperon fluttered back and forth until it detached while still in the air.

Counterarguments could be that the BFO is not very accurate, and the flutter theory is hard to believe. Also, a steep dive is not entirely inconsistent with control inputs at the end IMO. The pilot could have temporarily lost control when fuel was lost initially, and then recovered, or it could have glided at while and then been put intentionally into a dive at a relatively low altitude.
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Sat May 26, 2018 1:07 am

WarrenPlatts wrote:
777Jet wrote:
Also, items on the sea floor could be covered by a lot of silt by now - who knows if such items would be visible without stiring up the silt.


The sedimentation rates out in the middle of the ocean like that are extremely slow, like on the order of 0.01 to 0.05 mm/year. If you'll recall that one shipwreck they found, the old school anchor was perfectly depicted like it was a photograph. I don't know if they ever figured out how old that wreck was, but apparently it was from the wooden ship era. So if an anchor is still visible after 100 years or more, any aircraft parts would be pretty obvious IMHO. 4 or 5 years is nothing on the bottom of the SIO's time scale.


That's good to hear. Thanks for your insights.
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Sat May 26, 2018 1:24 am

WarrenPlatts wrote:
Counterarguments could be that the BFO is not very accurate, and the flutter theory is hard to believe. Also, a steep dive is not entirely inconsistent with control inputs at the end IMO. The pilot could have temporarily lost control when fuel was lost initially, and then recovered, or it could have glided at while and then been put intentionally into a dive at a relatively low altitude.


That's another possibility. Glide the plane down to 5k feet or so to increase range, then nose dive it to eliminate having to drown. A flight sim type might even throw in a stall / recovery or two...

Could the BFO going haywire at the final ping just simply have to do with the engines / some systems changing their (up until then consistent) behaviour as they shut down due to fuel exhaustion?
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747megatop
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat May 26, 2018 2:16 am

kitplane01 wrote:
Whywhyjay wrote:
Having read through all the MH370 threads over the years I hesitate to post here. However, I am glad to hear that a search may resume. Surely Boeing must also have a big interest in seeing the search re-started, I would think that they want to know as a company once and for all what caused this. Does Boeing still have a team or office investigating this, and have they contributed financially to the searches?


I don't think that's true. The broad consensus is that the commanded cockpit action. Some other people do not agree. I might be wrong about this .. but my impression is that the Malaysian government would rather almost anything than that. I am willing to be corrected.

1) The wreck is found, and proves commanded cockpit action. This will probably convince no one (and certainly not the Malaysian government). The discussion seems to be not evidence-based (see vaccines, etc.) So no benefit to Boeing.

2) The wreck is found and is inconclusive. Everyone will just continue believing what the did before. So no benefit to Boeing.

3) The wreck is found and it proves a technical problem with the aircraft. Now Boeing has problems.

whywhyjay; where did you hear that a search may resume? I think MH 370 is lost for a long time to come. Until unmanned underwater drone technology comes along where a swarm of underwater drones can be let lose that can swim for days without returning to the mothership and can scan vast swathes of ocean efficiently.
 
747megatop
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat May 26, 2018 2:23 am

747megatop wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
Whywhyjay wrote:
Having read through all the MH370 threads over the years I hesitate to post here. However, I am glad to hear that a search may resume. Surely Boeing must also have a big interest in seeing the search re-started, I would think that they want to know as a company once and for all what caused this. Does Boeing still have a team or office investigating this, and have they contributed financially to the searches?


I don't think that's true. The broad consensus is that the commanded cockpit action. Some other people do not agree. I might be wrong about this .. but my impression is that the Malaysian government would rather almost anything than that. I am willing to be corrected.

1) The wreck is found, and proves commanded cockpit action. This will probably convince no one (and certainly not the Malaysian government). The discussion seems to be not evidence-based (see vaccines, etc.) So no benefit to Boeing.

2) The wreck is found and is inconclusive. Everyone will just continue believing what the did before. So no benefit to Boeing.

3) The wreck is found and it proves a technical problem with the aircraft. Now Boeing has problems.

whywhyjay; where did you hear that a search may resume? I think MH 370 is lost for a long time to come. Until unmanned underwater drone technology comes along where a swarm of underwater drones can be let lose that can swim for days without returning to the mothership and can scan vast swathes of ocean efficiently.

Well, let me take that back; looks like Boeing has the technology - https://www.wired.com/2016/03/boeings-m ... -6-months/
this mission would be an ideal test for this technology; who would pay for this though? And on the other hand..i am surprised Boeing (an aerospace company) is into under water technlogy!
 
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kitplane01
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat May 26, 2018 5:26 am

747megatop wrote:
747megatop wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:

I don't think that's true. The broad consensus is that the commanded cockpit action. Some other people do not agree. I might be wrong about this .. but my impression is that the Malaysian government would rather almost anything than that. I am willing to be corrected.

1) The wreck is found, and proves commanded cockpit action. This will probably convince no one (and certainly not the Malaysian government). The discussion seems to be not evidence-based (see vaccines, etc.) So no benefit to Boeing.

2) The wreck is found and is inconclusive. Everyone will just continue believing what the did before. So no benefit to Boeing.

3) The wreck is found and it proves a technical problem with the aircraft. Now Boeing has problems.

whywhyjay; where did you hear that a search may resume? I think MH 370 is lost for a long time to come. Until unmanned underwater drone technology comes along where a swarm of underwater drones can be let lose that can swim for days without returning to the mothership and can scan vast swathes of ocean efficiently.

Well, let me take that back; looks like Boeing has the technology - https://www.wired.com/2016/03/boeings-m ... -6-months/
this mission would be an ideal test for this technology; who would pay for this though? And on the other hand..i am surprised Boeing (an aerospace company) is into under water technlogy!


Boeing is the world's 2nd largest military contractor that makes lots of things for many Navys. If you only think of Boeing's commercial aircraft division ... you're missing a third of the company.
 
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Carlos01
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Sat May 26, 2018 6:29 am

One issue I‘ve got with these ping rings, that they seem to be taken as some sort of gospel, which is 100% accurate.

But if we just think about it, it‘s a signal being sent from device 1, received by device 2, which then sends a reply, which again device 1 receives.

Now, how long it takes for the device 2 to do all this? Is it 0.5 seconds? Maybe 0.1 seconds? Or 0.02 seconds, even 0.01 seconds? 0.008 seconds? The difference between 0.01 and 0.008 is already 600km +/- for the signal to travel.

Meaning the tiniest little unknown detail anywhere could throw the search off even by thousands of km. Which I‘m afraid has just happened here.
 
salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Sat May 26, 2018 7:08 am

Carlos01 wrote:
One issue I‘ve got with these ping rings, that they seem to be taken as some sort of gospel, which is 100% accurate.

But if we just think about it, it‘s a signal being sent from device 1, received by device 2, which then sends a reply, which again device 1 receives.

Now, how long it takes for the device 2 to do all this? Is it 0.5 seconds? Maybe 0.1 seconds? Or 0.02 seconds, even 0.01 seconds? 0.008 seconds? The difference between 0.01 and 0.008 is already 600km +/- for the signal to travel.

Meaning the tiniest little unknown detail anywhere could throw the search off even by thousands of km. Which I‘m afraid has just happened here.
Transistors of each type have known propagation delays, so if let's say the signal went through 5 gates in the "device". You would add up the delays of those five gates and you would have an answer that is accurate to within a few picoseconds, so let's say there was a one hundred picosecond delay variation in those five gates; that would throw off the distance measured by about three centimeters, in a signal that has traveled thousands of miles.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Sat May 26, 2018 7:38 am

Carlos01 wrote:
One issue I‘ve got with these ping rings, that they seem to be taken as some sort of gospel, which is 100% accurate.

But if we just think about it, it‘s a signal being sent from device 1, received by device 2, which then sends a reply, which again device 1 receives.

Now, how long it takes for the device 2 to do all this? Is it 0.5 seconds? Maybe 0.1 seconds? Or 0.02 seconds, even 0.01 seconds? 0.008 seconds? The difference between 0.01 and 0.008 is already 600km +/- for the signal to travel.

Meaning the tiniest little unknown detail anywhere could throw the search off even by thousands of km. Which I‘m afraid has just happened here.


Please read the actual reports. All of this is covered in excruciating detail and is, in fact, part of how they calibrated the whole method and were able to use it to derive a flight path.

Also, the BFO did not "go haywire" at the end, and that did not indicate a dive. IIRC (it's been a couple of years) what happened was an extra ping, not part of the regular timed pings up to that point, which indicated the system came online again after engine flame - out... and *that* is consistent with autopilot cruise until fuel starvation. The flaperon condition was then consistent with uncontrolled impact, corroborating the fact that it was not a controlled ditching.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Sat May 26, 2018 3:09 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Carlos01 wrote:
One issue I‘ve got with these ping rings, that they seem to be taken as some sort of gospel, which is 100% accurate.

But if we just think about it, it‘s a signal being sent from device 1, received by device 2, which then sends a reply, which again device 1 receives.

Now, how long it takes for the device 2 to do all this? Is it 0.5 seconds? Maybe 0.1 seconds? Or 0.02 seconds, even 0.01 seconds? 0.008 seconds? The difference between 0.01 and 0.008 is already 600km +/- for the signal to travel.

Meaning the tiniest little unknown detail anywhere could throw the search off even by thousands of km. Which I‘m afraid has just happened here.


Please read the actual reports. All of this is covered in excruciating detail and is, in fact, part of how they calibrated the whole method and were able to use it to derive a flight path.

Also, the BFO did not "go haywire" at the end, and that did not indicate a dive... The flaperon condition was then consistent with uncontrolled impact, corroborating the fact that it was not a controlled ditching.


Listen to the recent 60 Minutes programme again, several times if you need to, from 27:00. The ATSB's uncontrolled ending scenario is "Based on their highly technical recalculation of the satellite data", not the condition of the flaperon.

The condition of the flaperon, specifically its damaged trailing edge and intact front, is consistent with the trailing edge first coming into contact with the water and being pulled back as the plane travelled with forward momentum. Listen to the expert Larry Vance, who knows what wreckage from an uncontrolled water impact (SR111) should look like, but no, you have already made up your mind that he just wants to sell his book based on your previous post... The flaperon condition is more consistent with a ditching attempt, not from falling from the sky whether attached to a plane or not.

If the data is correct, and the search technology works, then the failure to find the plane during this recent search (plus approx 1 extra month searching so far) means that the plane traveled farther than where the uncontrolled ending scenarios place it.
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salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Sat May 26, 2018 3:39 pm

Water is 800 times denser than air, thus I think it's about 800 times more likely that water dislodged the flaperon than air. At the same time I would like to point out, as anybody who has ever given a chipmunk a good whack with a sledgehammer knows, It's hard to predict which part will become dislodged or what direction it will take once dislodged. So the controlled ditching isn't a sure thing either.
 
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Carlos01
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Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Sat May 26, 2018 9:20 pm

salttee wrote:
Carlos01 wrote:
One issue I‘ve got with these ping rings, that they seem to be taken as some sort of gospel, which is 100% accurate.

But if we just think about it, it‘s a signal being sent from device 1, received by device 2, which then sends a reply, which again device 1 receives.

Now, how long it takes for the device 2 to do all this? Is it 0.5 seconds? Maybe 0.1 seconds? Or 0.02 seconds, even 0.01 seconds? 0.008 seconds? The difference between 0.01 and 0.008 is already 600km +/- for the signal to travel.

Meaning the tiniest little unknown detail anywhere could throw the search off even by thousands of km. Which I‘m afraid has just happened here.
Transistors of each type have known propagation delays, so if let's say the signal went through 5 gates in the "device". You would add up the delays of those five gates and you would have an answer that is accurate to within a few picoseconds, so let's say there was a one hundred picosecond delay variation in those five gates; that would throw off the distance measured by about three centimeters, in a signal that has traveled thousands of miles.


And even then... the plane was not where expected. Where is it?

Everyone who has ever owned a computer know, it depends. And 5 computers in a row depends a LOT more.

Quoting a famous person, if I‘m right they’ll give up - if I‘m wrong they‘ll be in the Hague in a week!
 
User avatar
BirdBrain
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:54 pm

Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Mon May 28, 2018 7:27 pm

Transport Minister has said the report of the search for MH370 will be realised in full when ready. Hopefully they find something soon before the current search is completed.

FWIW: https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2018 ... thony-loke
 
TC957
Posts: 2943
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: MH370: Malaysia resumes search to find aircraft

Tue May 29, 2018 11:16 am

Today, Ocean Infinity have formally announced their search for MH370 is being concluded with no new evidence of the aircraft whereabouts found. It will forever remain a mystery.
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