Hi all!

This story has been floating around the internet for a little while now and I haven’t seen it here. If it is here and I’ve just missed it mods can feel free to delete.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/airpla ... es-n810971

The cabin crews actions have began to be scrutinized in other areas of the internet. What do the people of a.net think?

Are their differences in training of crew for the different divisions of Air Asia? I don't fly Air Asia Indonesia because I am not satisfied that their service or crew are on of the same quality that I have experienced on Air Asia Malaysia. That has been a personal choice I have made based on personal experience and that of family and friends. Curious to know the answer to this question.

NZ321 wrote:

Are their differences in training of crew for the different divisions of Air Asia?

I am of the understanding each franchise is simply a brand sharing strategy with commercial agreements between them.

Each airlines I understand is independent with safety oversight by the home county regulator.

So that explains the difference. It's quite tricky when it comes to booking, You need to investigate carefully the airline operator code to avoid one you don't want if booking through some websites particularly as sometimes they have flights on the same route at more or less the same time.

kabq737 wrote:

Hi all!

This story has been floating around the internet for a little while now and I haven’t seen it here. If it is here and I’ve just missed it mods can feel free to delete.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/airpla ... es-n810971

The cabin crews actions have began to be scrutinized in other areas of the internet. What do the people of a.net think?

I posted this in the OZ thread last night but not much has been said about it as it has been drowned out on other announcements today. This has been all over the news and radio today here in Perth. There have been some reports that not all oxygen masks were working on the flight and that most of the announcements on the aircraft were not in English, why I don't know especially when most of the passengers would speak English. From what has been reported there seems to be little communication on board from the crew and the fact that cabin crew ran around the cabin screaming and telling passengers to brace sounds rather odd and quite unprofessional. Of course there has been over reach by the media as well with the sensational headlines but that's nothing new.

Well, you'd be thinking twice about Air Asia Indonesia after this wouldn't you?

NZ321 wrote:

Well, you'd be thinking twice about Air Asia Indonesia after this wouldn't you?

Well no, I have never considered flying them in the past nor would I consider flying them in the future

zeke wrote:

I am of the understanding each franchise is simply a brand sharing strategy with commercial agreements between them.

Each airlines I understand is independent with safety oversight by the home county regulator.

Really? That doesn't seem like the best strategy if there's no centralized safety and training standards. If one franchisee maintains poor standards, it taints the image of the entire brand. The public won't know or care about the difference. I realize there are different oversight and legality issues at play when these different franchisees exist in various countries, but that doesn't mean they can't still work together to ensure adequate standards. I think the future health of the brand depends on it given the number of incidents and accidents they've had in recent years.

qf789 wrote:

I posted this in the OZ thread last night but not much has been said about it as it has been drowned out on other announcements today. This has been all over the news and radio today here in Perth. There have been some reports that not all oxygen masks were working on the flight and that most of the announcements on the aircraft were not in English, why I don't know especially when most of the passengers would speak English. From what has been reported there seems to be little communication on board from the crew and the fact that cabin crew ran around the cabin screaming and telling passengers to brace sounds rather odd and quite unprofessional. Of course there has been over reach by the media as well with the sensational headlines but that's nothing new.

I would think the Australian authorities would have something to say about there being no English announcements, if that is indeed the case. While I agree that many incidents like this seem to attract a certain degree of sensationalism (particularly on slow news days with news organizations looking for a clickbait headline), there should be a fair degree of concern if the reports on these FAs are true. Apparently there are video clips, but I haven't seen them. FAs raison d'être is for the safety and well-being of passengers on board. Yes, they are also human, but they're humans with training and the capacity to save lives in serious situations. Paramedics can't arrive on scene and scream when they see a serious injury; firefighters can't run away when there's a fire. If this was their reaction, then I would be very concerned for their level of training, because it indicates to me that they weren't adequately prepared to do more than serve beverages.

atcsundevil wrote:

qf789 wrote:

I posted this in the OZ thread last night but not much has been said about it as it has been drowned out on other announcements today. This has been all over the news and radio today here in Perth. There have been some reports that not all oxygen masks were working on the flight and that most of the announcements on the aircraft were not in English, why I don't know especially when most of the passengers would speak English. From what has been reported there seems to be little communication on board from the crew and the fact that cabin crew ran around the cabin screaming and telling passengers to brace sounds rather odd and quite unprofessional. Of course there has been over reach by the media as well with the sensational headlines but that's nothing new.

I would think the Australian authorities would have something to say about there being no English announcements, if that is indeed the case. While I agree that many incidents like this seem to attract a certain degree of sensationalism (particularly on slow news days with news organizations looking for a clickbait headline), there should be a fair degree of concern if the reports on these FAs are true. Apparently there are video clips, but I haven't seen them. FAs raison d'être is for the safety and well-being of passengers on board. Yes, they are also human, but they're humans with training and the capacity to save lives in serious situations. Paramedics can't arrive on scene and scream when they see a serious injury; firefighters can't run away when there's a fire. If this was their reaction, then I would be very concerned for their level of training, because it indicates to me that they weren't adequately prepared to do more than serve beverages.

There is a video in the following news story

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/airasia ... 979f31ab5b

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia ... spartanntp

I've read the story, tons of sensationalism (i.e. "plunge" when you're talking about 20k ft in 9 mins, or about 2200fpm, which sounds about right when there's a pressurization problem. Then some other news said it's "20000 feet in seconds" )

On the other hand, it does look like the FAs are not prepared, and tons of communication problems. So there's that. But all those BS about "fear about crashing", "sending possible last text to love one".

zakuivcustom wrote:

I've read the story, tons of sensationalism (i.e. "plunge" when you're talking about 20k ft in 9 mins, or about 2200fpm, which sounds about right when there's a pressurization problem. Then some other news said it's "20000 feet in seconds" )

On the other hand, it does look like the FAs are not prepared, and tons of communication problems. So there's that. But all those BS about "fear about crashing", "sending possible last text to love one".

Ironically; the sensationalism in the title regarding the emergency descent only serves to obscure the apparent litany of errors which occurred at the same time (i.e. the most worrying issues). Some proper journalism might have produced a very interesting article indeed.

To cut the passengers a bit of slack; FAs are supposed to remain calm and composed in emergency situations - in fact we expect them to do so. If they were indeed running up and down the aisles screaming then I might also have been inclined to believe that something was very seriously wrong.

KLDC10 wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

I've read the story, tons of sensationalism (i.e. "plunge" when you're talking about 20k ft in 9 mins, or about 2200fpm, which sounds about right when there's a pressurization problem. Then some other news said it's "20000 feet in seconds" )

On the other hand, it does look like the FAs are not prepared, and tons of communication problems. So there's that. But all those BS about "fear about crashing", "sending possible last text to love one".

Ironically; the sensationalism in the title regarding the emergency descent only serves to obscure the apparent litany of errors which occurred at the same time (i.e. the most worrying issues). Some proper journalism might have produced a very interesting article indeed.

To cut the passengers a bit of slack; FAs are supposed to remain calm and composed in emergency situations - in fact we expect them to do so. If they were indeed running up and down the aisles screaming then I might also have been inclined to believe that something was very seriously wrong.

I can see where the whole situation would be unerving. Sounds like communication onboard was less then adequate so it’s possible the passengers were justified in their fears.

NZ321 wrote:

Well, you'd be thinking twice about Air Asia Indonesia after this wouldn't you?

In all the times we have traveled with them, they have always done their job well. However, in an emergency situation, everyone's perceptions and recollections change, and fear takes over to a large degree.

Some say they did not speak English, and this may have been the case in part, but the only video to be aired when I found out about it, was the clear words "fasten your seat belts" .Being an Indonesian airline, it would be expected that commands would also be spoken in Indonesian.

Some also stated that the cabin crew were screaming the commands. Most of the cabin crew are young Asian women, slender in build and quietly spoken. They have take control and be assertive. I am sure that their way of doing this is to "scream" at the top of their voices, otherwise they would not be heard.

As for oxygen not flowing in some masks, I cannot comment, other than to say, that I seem to remember that in the safety demonstrations they say that you must pull down on the cord to start the flow of oxygen. Maybe that was an issue. Maybe some passengers failed to listen to the safety demonstrations.

As for the media, well they have to sensationalize it all with emotive words, because that is what prompts viewing. "Plummet" and other such words is not an accurate (or appropriate) description for an 8 minute controlled descent.

No doubt when the transport safety people finish their reports, we will all be better informed of what happened.

As for oxygen not flowing in some masks, I cannot comment, other than to say, that I seem to remember that in the safety demonstrations they say that you must pull down on the cord to start the flow of oxygen. Maybe that was an issue. Maybe some passengers failed to listen to the safety demonstrations.

Another possibility I can think of is some people only think oxygen is flowing if the bag is inflated

Wouldn´t FAs "running around screaming" would have passed out in less than 6 seconds from lack of oxygent at 34,000 ft? I believe they may have screamed but from their seats. Or maybe walked around with portable oxygen but running? I really, really find it hard to believe.

zakuivcustom wrote:

As for oxygen not flowing in some masks, I cannot comment, other than to say, that I seem to remember that in the safety demonstrations they say that you must pull down on the cord to start the flow of oxygen. Maybe that was an issue. Maybe some passengers failed to listen to the safety demonstrations.

Another possibility I can think of is some people only think oxygen is flowing if the bag is inflated

Or simply do it like this guy

Given every time there is a depressurisation incident it seems to be accompanied by passengers talking about being terrified by the aircraft nosediving, or words to that effect, I wonder if it makes sense for the safety briefing, when talking about oxygen masks dropping, to note that this may be accompanied by the aircraft descending rapidly but safely to reach a lower altitude where oxygen won't be required? It might help reduce a bit of panic out of the situation by preparing people better for what happens when the masks drop.

V/F

KLDC10 wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

I've read the story, tons of sensationalism (i.e. "plunge" when you're talking about 20k ft in 9 mins, or about 2200fpm, which sounds about right when there's a pressurization problem. Then some other news said it's "20000 feet in seconds" )

On the other hand, it does look like the FAs are not prepared, and tons of communication problems. So there's that. But all those BS about "fear about crashing", "sending possible last text to love one".

Ironically; the sensationalism in the title regarding the emergency descent only serves to obscure the apparent litany of errors which occurred at the same time (i.e. the most worrying issues). Some proper journalism might have produced a very interesting article indeed. .

I can attest to as one with a masters and 35+ years experience working in the newsroom of several newspapers that until the bean counters are proven wrong, the industry as a whole including my own employer is going to continue to hire or sub out news writing jobs to bloggers rather than educated and vetted journalists for the foreseeable future.

Those of us who SME (travel and transport sectors) are going to continue to be shot down during the editing and review process by the administrative side of things as long as the biz model continues to focus on clicks/likes/shares to drive profit margins. If the media were to title an article such as this as "Plane makes emergency landing" vs "Plane plummets 20'000 feet", no one outside of the AV industry or plane-spotters would care less. There's a reason why day time television (Jerry Springer) brings in revenue while shows like... the McLaughlin Group don't. The general public does not care (as a whole) anymore. It is all about infotainment now.

As much as it gets to me and my old school values and ethics go, there's a reason a lot of us old timers get shuffled away to the back corner, so the MBAs can call the shots that bring back a sizable ROI to the investors.

Anyone needs me, I'm off to the 7-11 to restock on 5-hour energy, jet lag and two hours a night sleep is kicking in.

So, during the emergency descent, a passenger stands up thinking he has no oxygen in his mask, looking for other masks on another seat... the cabin crew, who were in their respective galleys at this time, sees that, and screams from the rear galley, "fasten your seat belts! fastern your seat belts", so that passenger sits down immediately, is taken as panic by the cabin crew? Oh well...
According to the "rumor mills", the pressurization controller was going "funny" with unusual cabin altitude changes prior to the mask deployment. So the crew realized something like this was going to happen.

Another source of the apparent confusion was that the aircraft seems to have initiated the descent prior to the masks deploying (could be decision to descend after cabin altitude reaching FL100 but prior to cabin altitude reaching FL140).

Am waiting for info to confirm whether or not all masks were working or not... but, more often than not, the thought of "no oxygen flowing" is due to the bag not showing any signs of inflation whatsoever.

And to answer the question of cabin crew standards for Indonesia Air Asia... The cabin crew are trained and checked at Malaysia at group level standards, with customization on the service aspect (language & culture) and local regulatory peculiarities (put in addition of group policy/procedures when required).

The aircraft involved, PK-AXD, is quite a moody aircraft. She'd throw a tantrum or two after a few weeks of hard gruelling schedules, but otherwise a fine aircraft. Some say she has a soul of her own...

Blimpie wrote:

KLDC10 wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

I've read the story, tons of sensationalism (i.e. "plunge" when you're talking about 20k ft in 9 mins, or about 2200fpm, which sounds about right when there's a pressurization problem. Then some other news said it's "20000 feet in seconds" )

There's a reason why day time television (Jerry Springer) brings in revenue while shows like... the McLaughlin Group don't.

For what it's worth, when John McLaughlin died a year ago, I read an article stating that the McLaughlin Group was quite profitable.

Having taken an Air Asia flight once I was made very aware of their franchise / partnership set up. When I booked SIN-BKK the marketing was all shiny new A320s, smiling beautiful crew and it all felt very modern. When I got to the airport it was actually Thai air Asia on the most antiquated 737 with panels coming off the wall and a seat that wouldn’t remain in the upright position. The crew were sour.

Was it safe? probably, but it was a far cry from what they said they were.

I vowed never to fly with them again and ended up booking my return flight on SQ which was a very nice 777 on the return leg.

Side note, I took a flight on Bangkok Airlines on the same trip which was a really nice experience! As was Ko Samui airport with its outdoor departures lounge. It was actually the best part of the island which is otherwise a bit grim.

Sandyb123

I have never had a problem on Air Asia Malaysia or Thai Air Asia. Air Indonesia seems to have more delays, last minute changes and more complaints in my experience and from people I know who have flown them. So would the crew be trained in Indonesia or at an Air Asia crew training base? If it is the former then this means that the brand may be aligned but there is not a consistency when it comes to operations and safety. I agree with comments above that this doesn't seem like the best strategy in the long term.

Love it when passengers claim their lives are in danger and thought they were going to die but still have the composure to take a selfie.

sandyb123 wrote:

Side note, I took a flight on Bangkok Airlines on the same trip which was a really nice experience! As was Ko Samui airport with its outdoor departures lounge. It was actually the best part of the island which is otherwise a bit grim.

Sandyb123

Just for your interest, Ko Samui Airport is privately owned and run by Bangkok Airways.
And yes i always have good experiences with Bangkok Airways and they are one of my favorite airline in Thailand.

sandyb123 wrote:

Thai air Asia on the most antiquated 737 with panels coming off the wall and a seat that wouldn’t remain in the upright position.

That must have been a long time ago - the last time I saw a Thai Airasia 737 was around 2012!

These days, they operate brand new A320Neos and A320Ceos. Their oldest A320Ceo, HS-ABA, was delivered on 19 Oct 2007.

NZ321 wrote:

Well, you'd be thinking twice about Air Asia Indonesia after this wouldn't you?

The (admittedly wealthy) Indonesians I know all refuse to fly any airline based in Indonesia.

kjeld0d wrote:

NZ321 wrote:

Well, you'd be thinking twice about Air Asia Indonesia after this wouldn't you?

The (admittedly wealthy) Indonesians I know all refuse to fly any airline based in Indonesia.

Most of the really rich Indonesians I know or know of, refused to fly anything but SQ on international flights. They obviously have no such choice on domestics.
On the same vein, many many moons ago when I was running trips into and across Indonesia like crazy, a senior colleague on his maiden business visit to Jakarta insisted on only SQ versus me who will take to anything with wings, whatever the outward condition. He declared that he would never fly on any Indo airline. Many months and flights later, when he had to go on to some secondary cities, he very reluctantly took Garuda and then made a new sworn statement that Garuda will be the only Indo airline he would ever fly on. Of course he had to break his vow again when he subsequently need to get to third and lower tier towns with rudimentary air service. The office guys (not from his department, obviously) loved mocking him after his return on every such trips with: "Oh, your plane didn't crash?" or "Huh, you are still alive?"

Refusal is only when you can.

neutrino wrote:

kjeld0d wrote:

NZ321 wrote:

Well, you'd be thinking twice about Air Asia Indonesia after this wouldn't you?

The (admittedly wealthy) Indonesians I know all refuse to fly any airline based in Indonesia.

Most of the really rich Indonesians I know or know of, refused to fly anything but SQ on international flights. They obviously have no such choice on domestics.
On the same vein, many many moons ago when I was running trips into and across Indonesia like crazy, a senior colleague on his maiden business visit to Jakarta insisted on only SQ versus me who will take to anything with wings, whatever the outward condition. He declared that he would never fly on any Indo airline. Many months and flights later, when he had to go on to some secondary cities, he very reluctantly took Garuda and then made a new sworn statement that Garuda will be the only Indo airline he would ever fly on. Of course he had to break his vow again when he subsequently need to get to third and lower tier towns with rudimentary air service. The office guys (not from his department, obviously) loved mocking him after his return on every such trips with: "Oh, your plane didn't crash?" or "Huh, you are still alive?"

Refusal is only when you can.

Yes indeed. Agreed. Sometimes we have no choice.

ATSB has released preliminary report today on QZ535 PER-DPS pressurisation incident back in October

http://www.atsb.com.au/publications/inv ... -2017-098/

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australi ... spartanntp