ExMilitaryEng wrote:

iseeyyc wrote:

CFM565A1 wrote:

When you learn about Quebec pride/stubbornness/politics then you’ll understand why they won’t let Boeing anywhere near it.

The rest of Canada rolls its eyes when it comes to Quebec. They threaten to separate when they don't get their way and so the Liberal Party funnels money to keep them happy.

In the 1995 Quebec referendum, 49.5% voted yes to secession. (And more precisely, 65% of French speaking Quebecers voted yes).
So no, that was not a threat, 49.5% just wanted out.

That should have been a perfect solution for you "iseeyyc"; no more federal $ going into Quebec!!! You would have been so happy! (well no more Quebec tax going into Ottawa either )

Imagine, no Federal $ into BBD!!! (And NO Quebec tax $ going into bailing out GM / Chrysler Canadian assembly plants - where Canada actually lost Billions!!!)

VirginFlyer wrote:

May I humbly suggest discussion of the C Series deal with Airbus continue on the thread about it - Breaking: Airbus and Bombardier Announce C Series Partnership - and leave this one for potential sales of other aircraft programmes?

V/F

texl1649 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

BoeingVista wrote:

CSeries makes a lot of sense for Airbus, kill A319, develop CS500 and target rewinged A322 firmly in the NMA space.

Two narrow-bodies and two wide-bodies sound like a nice line-up. Make the CS-series cockpit like the others in the family, especially the A320 series and you have the flexibility up front.

To whom? The A330NEO and C-series haven't sold a whole lot of frames the past few years, fyi. 2 basic frames makes sense. Airbus (A300/330/340/310 and A320), Boeing (737/707/727/757 and 747, then 777, and finally 787, if it's ever profitable), and McD (DC-9...DC10, the only real types they ever sold as jets) all sold two basic widths/families at their peak years (if you're focused on profits especially). No orphaned smaller (or bigger; A380) family has ever developed some synergies and taken off (A350 is replacing the A300 size frame, more quickly than many realized, in orders).

It's a huge stretch to see how any niche smaller model really works, the sole exception, to some extent, being ATR's incorporation into Airbus. Large commercial aircraft families aren't the Brady Bunch. Drat, I can't resist; this is also what makes the Boeing 797 prospect so intriguing, if they can do it and somehow avoid the pitfall of a weird 3rd fuselage thanks to carbon technologies etc. 2 narrow body families is ridiculous.

VirginFlyer wrote:

It is worth pointing out that the article quoted in the original post talks specifically about the sale of the Q400 or CRJ programmes, and not the C Series.

BoeingVista wrote:

CFM565A1 wrote:

william wrote:

Don’t overlook Boeing as a suitor. Imagine the Boeing sales team pushing the CS.

Nah you’re dreaming in technicolor... BBD will go down with the ship when it comes to the CSeries. If they do sell anything it’ll be the CRJ or Q series possibly but that’s a big if at this point. I wouldn’t even rule them out selling a corporate jet line.

Bombardier discussed a sale of CSeries to Airbus before so I dont see why it would be ruled out now.

1000% if Boeing bought CSeries the trade dispute would suddenly disappear.

CSeries makes a lot of sense for Airbus, kill A319, develop CS500 and target rewinged A322 firmly in the NMA space.

LockheedBBD wrote:

No deal imminent: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bomba ... SKBN1CL21J

no deal is imminent, people familiar with the matter told Reuters on Monday


As part of that process, the Canadian train-and-plane maker has held informal talks with Chinese companies among others in recent months, but the sources played down the chances of Europe’s Airbus (AIR.PA) being a likely partner.

Bombardier’s talks with Chinese companies are aimed at delivering an investment in the company’s 110 to 130 seat CSeries jets

“Canada would contribute a share of the program, allowing China to access first rate aerospace technology. China would contribute capital and likely place a major order for the aircraft.”

KarelXWB wrote:

So at the end of the day Bombardier didn't sell the entire CSeries program, just allowing a foreign company to take a major stake.

Is Bombardier still looking for a buyer for the Q400 and CRJ lines?

LockheedBBD wrote:

No deal imminent: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bomba ... SKBN1CL21J

no deal is imminent, people familiar with the matter told Reuters on Monday


As part of that process, the Canadian train-and-plane maker has held informal talks with Chinese companies among others in recent months, but the sources played down the chances of Europe’s Airbus (AIR.PA) being a likely partner.

Bombardier’s talks with Chinese companies are aimed at delivering an investment in the company’s 110 to 130 seat CSeries jets

“Canada would contribute a share of the program, allowing China to access first rate aerospace technology. China would contribute capital and likely place a major order for the aircraft.”

So much for the "people familiar with the matter".

BoeingVista wrote:

BoeingVista wrote:

CFM565A1 wrote:

Nah you’re dreaming in technicolor... BBD will go down with the ship when it comes to the CSeries. If they do sell anything it’ll be the CRJ or Q series possibly but that’s a big if at this point. I wouldn’t even rule them out selling a corporate jet line.

Bombardier discussed a sale of CSeries to Airbus before so I dont see why it would be ruled out now.

1000% if Boeing bought CSeries the trade dispute would suddenly disappear.

CSeries makes a lot of sense for Airbus, kill A319, develop CS500 and target rewinged A322 firmly in the NMA space.

Ha! What do ya know, nailed it

LockheedBBD wrote:

Interesting news if true, BBD's commercial exit would be all just confirmed unless they have plans on making a new turboprop in the future.

2175301 wrote:

I would not rule out Viking... They may actually have a better chance than any Chinese company.

I doubt that either Airbus or Boeing are that interested.

Have a great day,

aemoreira1981 wrote:

For the Dash 8 (Viking bought all of the other DHC type certificates and has since restarted production on the Twin Otter), Viking has to be the odds-on favorite, as they already provide support for the Dash-1 to Dash-7

Rolland Vincent, an aviation consultant who previously worked at Bombardier, believes the transportation company won't spend the large sums required to overhaul the regional aircraft programs as long as oil prices remain low.

"I don't think they make a lot of money on these aircraft so ... as long as oil stays at $50 or thereabouts there's probably a very limited business case for re-engines," he said in an interview.

Vincent believes Bombardier is no longer enamoured with the low-margin parts of its commercial aerospace business and will follow its historical pattern.

Vincent worked on strategy at Bombardier during the period in the 1990s when it shook up the global aviation market by launching small regional jets that spawned new competitors like Brazil's Embraer.

He sees Bombardier eventually selling the Q400 turboprop and CRJ jet programs, possibly to China.

The Chinese could be potential buyers, but they would prefer new technology, especially new generations of engines, added Ernie Arvai, partner in commercial aviation consultancy Air Insight.

He doesn't see a lot of buyers for the regional aircraft. Airbus already owns a large stake in ATR and Boeing has shown no interest in getting into smaller planes.

U.S. scope clauses that limit the size of planes pilots can fly under their union contracts give the CRJ a five-year runway to secure orders, said Arvai.

While the Q400 is "solid," he doubts Bombardier will redesign the CRJ, which will be at the end of its life in about a decade.

"It might be a natural winding down point," he said.

What I've been told is that Bombardier is selling the Q400 division in totality to a buyer in China. After the Canadian Federal government asked Bombardier not to sell the CSeries to a Chinese buyer, a program filled with new technologies, something that Ottawa would be ready to leave with is the transfer of the Q400 total ownership to China. With almost all Q400 fuselage already made in China it is not clear for how long Bombardier would be supplying the aircraft cockpit currently made by Bombardier in St-Laurent/Montreal. We should assume that new assembly lines would be installed in China.

leghorn wrote:

I'd like them to announce it today near close of business if they are going to do this in which case I'll sell my bombardier shares early next week.
I assume they usually leave these big announcements for a friday evening near month end.
Not going to do anything based on a rumour so I'm doing nothing yet.

leghorn wrote:

I'd like them to announce it today near close of business if they are going to do this in which case I'll sell my bombardier shares early next week.
I assume they usually leave these big announcements for a friday evening near month end.
Not going to do anything based on a rumour so I'm doing nothing yet.

leghorn wrote:

I don't want to be invested in a rail and private jet company. I know nothing about either and have no love for either. Warren Buffet would tell you to invest in what you know.
I invested despite how politicized the company was because I liked the planes. I don't like being in politicized businesses.
I'm happy to take a good profit on my investment now.

Dash9 wrote:

leghorn wrote:

I don't want to be invested in a rail and private jet company. I know nothing about either and have no love for either. Warren Buffet would tell you to invest in what you know.
I invested despite how politicized the company was because I liked the planes. I don't like being in politicized businesses.
I'm happy to take a good profit on my investment now.

Well maybe you shouldn't have invested in BBD in the first place. When is the last time their commercial aircraft division turned in more revenue than rail or biz jet? 10 years ago? more?

If you expect a profit from your shares then you bought them +/- in the last two years. Indeed you made a great profit, good for you. But again you should have know that most of their revenue and profits were rail / biz jets, and commercial aircraft was always a money loser.

-Dash9

CFRPwingALbody wrote:

I agree with the CRJ replacement with CSeries avionics, hopefully within 5 years (only possible with a joint venture).

CFRPwingALbody wrote:

Sharing the CSeries program with Airbus hasn't improved the financial situation of BBD. AFAIK, BBD has to invest at least 700mln aditionally into the CSeries. (300mln 1th year, & 300mln year 2&3, only above that Airbus invests it's share. Correct?)

At closing, there will be no cash contribution by any of the partners, nor will CSALP assume any financial debt. It also contemplates that Bombardier will continue with its current funding plan of CSALP and will fund, if required, the cash shortfalls of CSALP during the first year following the closing up to a maximum amount of US$350 million, and during the second and third years following the closing up to a maximum aggregate amount of US$350 million over both years, in consideration for non-voting participating shares of CSALP with cumulative annual dividends of 2%, with any excess shortfall during such periods to be shared proportionately amongst Class A shareholders.