FedEx Equipment Update

tkoenig95 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:08 pm

When will FedEx update their current aircraft? The current DC-10s are just about as ancient as AA's Maddogs, and the MD-11s are mostly bought from previous airlines and likely have some wear and tear.

Not to mention, doesn't the MD-11 have a particular type of engineering that makes the aircraft prone to unsafe landings related to FX80 at NRT?

Revelation · Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:17 pm

Your answer is one click away:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express#Fleet

tkoenig95 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:40 pm

Revelation wrote:
Your answer is one click away:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express#Fleet

Thanks!

bmacleod · Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:28 pm

Revelation wrote:
Your answer is one click away:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express#Fleet

Interesting the Airbuses are getting the boot....

Could Fedex be getting pressured by Trump's "Buy American" mantra?

The ATR's (European made) seem OK for now...

INFINITI329 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:41 pm

bmacleod wrote:
Interesting the Airbuses are getting the boot....

Could Fedex be getting pressured by Trump's "Buy American" mantra?

The ATR's (European made) seem OK for now...

No, Fedex made their future fleet decisions long before Trump.

ikolkyo · Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:47 pm

bmacleod wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Your answer is one click away:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express#Fleet

Interesting the Airbuses are getting the boot....

Could Fedex be getting pressured by Trump's "Buy American" mantra?

The ATR's (European made) seem OK for now...

Or they're getting old and its time for them to be retired, heck they are operating the A310-300 testbed which is 32 years old!

Stitch · Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:50 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
bmacleod wrote:
Interesting the Airbuses are getting the boot....could Fedex be getting pressured by Trump's "Buy American" mantra?

No, Fedex made their future fleet decisions long before Trump.

Indeed, they placed their first 767F order in December 2011.

The 767 offers more volume, more payload weight and more range than the A300 and A310 while still fitting in the existing A3XX infrastructure. It's the logical replacement for the type now that Airbus no longer offers something of equivalent physical footprint.

airzona11 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:51 pm

bmacleod wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Your answer is one click away:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express#Fleet

Interesting the Airbuses are getting the boot....

Could Fedex be getting pressured by Trump's "Buy American" mantra?

The ATR's (European made) seem OK for now...

The Airbus fleet is not getting the boot, they are being retired when their useful life runs out. What Airbus do you recommend Fedex buy to replace the A310s and A300s? Airbus doesn't have an option. FedEx hasn't ordered any planes under "Trump". Same with ATRs, what would FedEx buy to operate in place of them?

lightsaber · Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:19 pm

airzona11 wrote:
bmacleod wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Your answer is one click away:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express#Fleet

Interesting the Airbuses are getting the boot....

Could Fedex be getting pressured by Trump's "Buy American" mantra?

The ATR's (European made) seem OK for now...

The Airbus fleet is not getting the boot, they are being retired when their useful life runs out. What Airbus do you recommend Fedex buy to replace the A310s and A300s? Airbus doesn't have an option. FedEx hasn't ordered any planes under "Trump". Same with ATRs, what would FedEx buy to operate in place of them?

Just to clarify, the A330 has too much wingspan to move the same quantity of cargo on the same ramp. This is why the 777X has folding wingtips and I'd be surprised if the MoM doesn't. Otherwise, modern wings take up an uneconomical amount of real estate.

Lightsaber

INFINITI329 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:46 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Just to clarify, the A330 has too much wingspan to move the same quantity of cargo on the same ramp. This is why the 777X has folding wingtips and I'd be surprised if the MoM doesn't. Otherwise, modern wings take up an uneconomical amount of real estate.

Lightsaber

Besides range, what other efficiencies come with a larger wingspan?

CX747 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:43 pm

My historical thought process for FEDEX was a company attached at the hip to Douglas Corporations DC-10. My how times have changed. The quick build up of the 757 fleet to 100+ planes is stunning, as is how the 767 and 777 will be operated in massive numbers. I assume over time additional 777s will be ordered to replace the MD-11s.

CX747 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:47 pm

Stitch wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
bmacleod wrote:
Interesting the Airbuses are getting the boot....could Fedex be getting pressured by Trump's "Buy American" mantra?

No, Fedex made their future fleet decisions long before Trump.

Indeed, they placed their first 767F order in December 2011.

The 767 offers more volume, more payload weight and more range than the A300 and A310 while still fitting in the existing A3XX infrastructure. It's the logical replacement for the type now that Airbus no longer offers something of equivalent physical footprint.

I am very interested in watching the 767 line as time unfolds. It has an entire market place to itself and could really see additional freighter orders as time goes on. Think of all the A300/310 freighters out there in addition to the fact that the second hand 767 conversion market is extremely tight.

aemoreira1981 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:48 pm

FedEx appears to be standardizing around 3 models---757, 767, and 777. I wonder if the 737-800BCF will have a place in the FedEx fleet.

LAXintl · Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:49 pm

CX747 wrote:
My historical thought process for FEDEX was a company attached at the hip to Douglas Corporations DC-10. My how times have changed. The quick build up of the 757 fleet to 100+ planes is stunning, as is how the 767 and 777 will be operated in massive numbers. I assume over time additional 777s will be ordered to replace the MD-11s.

Arguably the most important plane at FX was the 727. The airline at one time was the worlds largest operator of the type with 170 of the aircraft in its fleet at a single time.

HPRamper · Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:46 am

ikolkyo wrote:
Or they're getting old and its time for them to be retired, heck they are operating the A310-300 testbed which is 32 years old!

Actually, there is no set timeframe for retiring the last of the A310-300s (FX operates 6, not 8 as Wiki incorrectly states) whereas the A300 fleet has set retirement dates starting this year and accelerating in upcoming years - dependent of course on operational trends as MD retirements have slowed to a trickle because of volume increases. Speaking from the viewpoint of FX operations, nobody will be sad to see Airbus equipment go, they are maintenance hogs and very finicky, and also are fragile and weak in many ways regarding physical loading. The 767 is similar capacity but much higher quality and with greater ease of use.

LAXintl wrote:
Arguably the most important plane at FX was the 727. The airline at one time was the worlds largest operator of the type with 170 of the aircraft in its fleet at a single time.

The way I see it is the 727 was the most important plane in the fleet until the Flying Tigers acquisition, at which point with the introduction of a global network the MD (-10 and -11) took over. At this point, even with the 777s and 767s I still believe the MD-11 is the real keystone of the fleet.

ikolkyo · Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:46 pm

HPRamper wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Or they're getting old and its time for them to be retired, heck they are operating the A310-300 testbed which is 32 years old!

Actually, there is no set timeframe for retiring the last of the A310-300s (FX operates 6, not 8 as Wiki incorrectly states) whereas the A300 fleet has set retirement dates starting this year and accelerating in upcoming years - dependent of course on operational trends as MD retirements have slowed to a trickle because of volume increases. Speaking from the viewpoint of FX operations, nobody will be sad to see Airbus equipment go, they are maintenance hogs and very finicky, and also are fragile and weak in many ways regarding physical loading. The 767 is similar capacity but much higher quality and with greater ease of use.

LAXintl wrote:
Arguably the most important plane at FX was the 727. The airline at one time was the worlds largest operator of the type with 170 of the aircraft in its fleet at a single time.

The way I see it is the 727 was the most important plane in the fleet until the Flying Tigers acquisition, at which point with the introduction of a global network the MD (-10 and -11) took over. At this point, even with the 777s and 767s I still believe the MD-11 is the real keystone of the fleet.

Considering that the A310s are much older and there are so few in the fleet I expect them to be gone sometime soon.

Stitch · Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:36 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Considering that the A310s are much older and there are so few in the fleet I expect them to be gone sometime soon.

The A310-300F will fly as far as an MD-10F will (albeit with a fair bit less payload volume and a lot less payload weight) whereas an A300 has only about 2/3rd's the range so perhaps the A310-300s are favorable from a utilization standpoint as a stand-in for MD-10F missions that for whatever reasons are going out with much lower loads at that time?

Runway28L · Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:32 pm

I read on here awhile ago that FX was gonna phase out the P&W A300s first due to age while hanging on to the GE A300s longer. Is that still the case?

ikolkyo · Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:43 pm

Stitch wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Considering that the A310s are much older and there are so few in the fleet I expect them to be gone sometime soon.

The A310-300F will fly as far as an MD-10F will (albeit with a fair bit less payload volume and a lot less payload weight) whereas an A300 has only about 2/3rd's the range so perhaps the A310-300s are favorable from a utilization standpoint as a stand-in for MD-10F missions that for whatever reasons are going out with much lower loads at that time?

With only 6 aircraft in the fleet and maintenance cost rising I don’t think standing in for an MD-10 matters much to them, they have plenty of 767s and other MD-10s and MD-11s

VSMUT · Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:47 pm

airzona11 wrote:
Same with ATRs, what would FedEx buy to operate in place of them?

FedEx is replacing a large proportion (if not all) of their contractor operated ATR fleet in Europe with freshly converted contractor operated 737-400s. If my sources are correct, they will be joined by some of the first 737-800 conversions shortly:

jbs2886 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:12 am

VSMUT wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Same with ATRs, what would FedEx buy to operate in place of them?

FedEx is replacing a large proportion (if not all) of their contractor operated ATR fleet in Europe with freshly converted contractor operated 737-400s. If my sources are correct, they will be joined by some of the first 737-800 conversions shortly:

Will we see some more 738 conversions for FedEx in Europe? Any for the US?

Fixinthe757 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:19 am

FedEx will have only Boeing in the fleet, the 757, 767, and 777. Look for it to be only those within the next 6 years.

Spacepope · Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:21 am

HPRamper wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Or they're getting old and its time for them to be retired, heck they are operating the A310-300 testbed which is 32 years old!

Actually, there is no set timeframe for retiring the last of the A310-300s (FX operates 6, not 8 as Wiki incorrectly states) whereas the A300 fleet has set retirement dates starting this year and accelerating in upcoming years - dependent of course on operational trends as MD retirements have slowed to a trickle because of volume increases. Speaking from the viewpoint of FX operations, nobody will be sad to see Airbus equipment go, they are maintenance hogs and very finicky, and also are fragile and weak in many ways regarding physical loading. The 767 is similar capacity but much higher quality and with greater ease of use.

LAXintl wrote:
Arguably the most important plane at FX was the 727. The airline at one time was the worlds largest operator of the type with 170 of the aircraft in its fleet at a single time.

The way I see it is the 727 was the most important plane in the fleet until the Flying Tigers acquisition, at which point with the introduction of a global network the MD (-10 and -11) took over. At this point, even with the 777s and 767s I still believe the MD-11 is the real keystone of the fleet.

Any more heavy checks on the MD-10 fleet? How is the engine supply holding up? Those CF-6-6s for the -10s must be getting harder to come by.

VSMUT · Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:29 am

jbs2886 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Same with ATRs, what would FedEx buy to operate in place of them?

FedEx is replacing a large proportion (if not all) of their contractor operated ATR fleet in Europe with freshly converted contractor operated 737-400s. If my sources are correct, they will be joined by some of the first 737-800 conversions shortly:

Will we see some more 738 conversions for FedEx in Europe? Any for the US?

I don't know if the 737-800 conversions for ASL will operate for FedEx or UPS, but I would expect so.

wrenchon727 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:12 pm

The 737 are repainted TNT aircraft operated out of LGG. They are adding their own 757 to the LGG operation. A310-300 will be around awhile longer, some just got fresh C chks, may bring a few out of VCV along with the three 757 stored their. The A300, MD10-30 & MD 11 will be around for awhile. May even see A320 & A321 PtoF in the future as an ASL replacement. I don't see an all Boeing fleet any time soon.

32andBelow · Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:25 pm

Does Fedex let their pilots fly 757 and 767?

wrenchon727 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:45 pm

The 757 has a lower pay scale, 767 pilots are qualified in 757 and have 757 trips in their bid pack, so they fly some 757 trips at wide body pay. They also have a Indy based 767 classic cockpit qualified & 757 bid pack.

Dutchy · Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:47 pm

Amazing the FX operates 26% of all MD-11 ever produced.

CWizard · Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:22 pm

It is my understanding that all the DC/MD-10s will be retired over the next few years and the newest of the MD-11s and Airbuses will be retained (and the rest put out to pasture). As previously mentioned, it will be a predominately Boeing fleet in three or four years.

b747400erf · Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:07 am

FX could be angry at 5X for prolonging the 748 line, making better deals on 77Fs less likely.

VSMUT · Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:00 am

wrenchon727 wrote:
The 737 are repainted TNT aircraft operated out of LGG. May even see A320 & A321 PtoF in the future as an ASL replacement. I don't see an all Boeing fleet any time soon.

Nope, they are converting "new" 737-400s and 737-800s for the FedEx contract. The A320/321 conversion is completely out of the picture.

HPRamper · Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:47 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Considering that the A310s are much older and there are so few in the fleet I expect them to be gone sometime soon.

A lot of us expected them to be gone a long time ago, when the 310s were retired en masse, but after the 310-200s were gone FX decided to hang on to the -300s and retirements came to a halt. They seem to work very well for their market sizes but I'd expect them to eventually be replaced by the 767 when more are delivered. Unless something has changed, I didn't see them on the retirement list through 2019.

wrenchon727 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:08 pm

VSMUT wrote:
wrenchon727 wrote:
The 737 are repainted TNT aircraft operated out of LGG. May even see A320 & A321 PtoF in the future as an ASL replacement. I don't see an all Boeing fleet any time soon.

Nope, they are converting "new" 737-400s and 737-800s for the FedEx contract. The A320/321 conversion is completely out of the picture.

The five FedEx painted ASL aircraft were previous TNT aircraft, what new aircraft & flights have ASL added since FDX took over TNT. We started flying STN and EMA with our 757 and their working on approval to fly more flights as they plan to pull three stored 757 out of VCV. Is it possible for FedEx to replace all of the ASL flying in the future with their own aircraft, we have 13 757 and a couple A300 flying in Europe out of CDG and a pilot base in CGN.

Spacepope · Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:20 pm

wrenchon727 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
wrenchon727 wrote:
The 737 are repainted TNT aircraft operated out of LGG. May even see A320 & A321 PtoF in the future as an ASL replacement. I don't see an all Boeing fleet any time soon.

Nope, they are converting "new" 737-400s and 737-800s for the FedEx contract. The A320/321 conversion is completely out of the picture.

The five FedEx painted ASL aircraft were previous TNT aircraft, what new aircraft & flights have ASL added since FDX took over TNT. We started flying STN and EMA with our 757 and their are more planned as we pull three stored 757 out of VCV. FDX A320/321 is not out of the picture.

So FX is launching an airbus NB conversion program? What's the timeline on that new program and where are they planning on getting feedstock?

MO11 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:26 pm

Spacepope wrote:
wrenchon727 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
The A320/321 conversion is completely out of the picture.

FDX A320/321 is not out of the picture.

So FX is launching an airbus NB conversion program? What's the timeline on that new program and where are they planning on getting feedstock?

I'm not sure how you see that. Nothing was said about FX launching an Airbus conversion program. The "not going to happen" statement was negated.

jbs2886 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:06 pm

MO11 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
wrenchon727 wrote:
FDX A320/321 is not out of the picture.

So FX is launching an airbus NB conversion program? What's the timeline on that new program and where are they planning on getting feedstock?

I'm not sure how you see that. Nothing was said about FX launching an Airbus conversion program. The "not going to happen" statement was negated.

A poster said the "A320/1 is not out of the picture." Consequently, if it is not out the picture, is FedEx launching it? That is a fair question that was not negated.

wrenchon727 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:16 pm

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... ramme.html

2175301 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:22 pm

wrenchon727 wrote:
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2015/06/efw-st-aerospace-and-airbus-to-launch-a320-a321p2f-freighter-conversion-programme.html

Unfortunately, that does not mean that any will actually be converted... I believe there are at least 2, if not 3, 777 P2F conversion programs in place... (the latest one I believe set up last year). There has not yet been a single order yet of a 777 P2F conversion that I know of...

Hopefully the A320 will fare better.

Have a great day,

b747400erf · Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 pm

wrenchon727 wrote:
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2015/06/efw-st-aerospace-and-airbus-to-launch-a320-a321p2f-freighter-conversion-programme.html

"to launch" not have launched

and from 2 years ago

masonh2479 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:32 pm

Will the 787 and A350 have a "F" version to replace the 767F and A330F? If this does happen it would be quite cool to see a FedEx 787/A350. IIFC FedEx is updating their cockpits fleet wide now so the purchase might be in the far future. But it would be the only shot of a 787/A350 coming to my home airport regularly.

MO11 · Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:52 pm

b747400erf wrote:
wrenchon727 wrote:
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2015/06/efw-st-aerospace-and-airbus-to-launch-a320-a321p2f-freighter-conversion-programme.html

"to launch" not have launched

and from 2 years ago

The EFW A321 program was formally launched in May.

http://www.aircargoweek.com/efw-launches-airbus-a321-passenger-freighter-conversion/

Another conversion will be a joint venture between Precision Aircraft and Cargo Aircraft Management. Its launch customer is Vallair Solutions.

http://www.aircargonews.net/news/technology/freighter-conversions/single-view/news/vallair-is-launch-customer-for-321pcs-a321-200-passenger-to-freighter-conversion.html

There are at least two other companies that announced plans for A320 family conversions, but their details are a little more sketchy. Bedek also announced intentons to develop conversions for the A320 family, once the development work is complete for the 737NGs.

Stitch · Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:06 pm

b747400erf wrote:
FX could be angry at 5X for prolonging the 748 line, making better deals on 77Fs less likely.

Boeing has been cutting 777 production due to a lack of orders to support the 777 to 777X switchover so I am sure Boeing would be happy to make FX a deal on more 777Fs.

Spacepope · Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:22 pm

wrenchon727 wrote:
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2015/06/efw-st-aerospace-and-airbus-to-launch-a320-a321p2f-freighter-conversion-programme.html

Problem is they have trotted this out every few years for a decade. No launch customer and if 2018 delivery was realistic the first airframe would be getting converted as we speak.

Currently FX getting Airbus narrow bodies is as close to reality as them getting CV880 freighters. At least some of those already got cargo doors.

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