720B
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Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:02 am

As of March 2018, Air France will replace the A340-300 service with 787-9 dreamliner

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... ght=bogota
 
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LFLL
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:20 am

A340 going to fly for Joon I guess
LFLL
 
76er
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:04 pm

Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:20 pm

Will it be nonstop to CDG? The 789 must take quite the a weight penalty then. KL flies via CTG on the way back for a reason...
 
Boeingphan
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:21 pm

I'd assume the 789 performance is much better than the 340 they were having issues with correct?

edit: runway performance that is
 
720B
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:15 pm

Re-posting the link, seems I did not post it properly the first time

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... ght=bogota
 
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TheLion
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:43 pm

Nice modern aircraft to send to the Colombian market, yet it's not really an upgrade down the back given how uncomfortable the 787 is vs A340. I enjoyed the return trip to BOG from LHR on AV's modern A332 last year, yet am not looking forward to the next one on the 788 which now plies the route; AF's will be little different.

The A330/A340 family is one of the most comfortable aircraft families in the sky at 8 abreast and I for one will be sad when the 787s and even A350s take over more routes; the latter beacuse they're 3-3-3, which is no match for 2-4-2. Maybe one day can afford to fly Business though...
 
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AASAP777
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:45 pm

76er wrote:
Will it be nonstop to CDG? The 789 must take quite the a weight penalty then. KL flies via CTG on the way back for a reason...


Just what I thought. Would it be nonstop (without cargo at all), or will it be nonstop with payload penalties from BOG to CDG?

Still, a very nice aircraft to spot for the bogotanos.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
Summa767
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:32 pm

76er wrote:
Will it be nonstop to CDG? The 789 must take quite the a weight penalty then. KL flies via CTG on the way back for a reason...


It must be noted that there is a new schedule that goes with changing the aircraft type for the route.

Traditionally AF has departed BOG atvaround 6pm and has recently put it forward a couple of hours, but the 787-9 schedule is for a midnight departure from BOG. At that time the ambient temperature is typically significantly lower -so takes the "hot" from the "hot and high", helping performance.

In any case, AF does not move that much cargo from BOG. It actually transports way more on the CDG-BOG leg.

KL is a different story. AMS is that much further and probably does need the large amount of cargo that it carries for the route to be viable. Hence the CTG stop.
 
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Polot
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:38 pm

Summa767 wrote:
Traditionally AF has departed BOG atvaround 6pm and has recently put it forward a couple of hours, but the 787-9 schedule is for a midnight departure from BOG. At that time the ambient temperature is typically significantly lower -so takes the "hot" from the "hot and high", helping performance.

Contrary to popular belief Bogota is not actually a hot place. Elevation is the only issue there, which of course does not change with the time of day. Granted with BOG's elevation any chance of lower temps probably helps. But there is a good chance that the schedule change is also due to 787 availability in AF's fleet.
 
mabadia71
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:10 pm

Polot wrote:
Summa767 wrote:
Traditionally AF has departed BOG atvaround 6pm and has recently put it forward a couple of hours, but the 787-9 schedule is for a midnight departure from BOG. At that time the ambient temperature is typically significantly lower -so takes the "hot" from the "hot and high", helping performance.

Contrary to popular belief Bogota is not actually a hot place. Elevation is the only issue there, which of course does not change with the time of day. Granted with BOG's elevation any chance of lower temps probably helps. But there is a good chance that the schedule change is also due to 787 availability in AF's fleet.


The "hot" part of "hot and high" refers to International Standard Atmosphere which at the high of BOG is bellow 0. What this means is that BOG (despite being a relatively cold city) is much hotter than the "ideal" performance temperature.
mabadia71
 
NichCage
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:20 pm

I still don't understand how KLM flies AMS-BOG direct but BOG-AMS with a stopover, with the 787-9. What is stopping KLM from serving BOG direct both directions?
 
EddieDude
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:12 pm

If AM can fly nonstop the 788 from MEX to NRT (6,087 nm), I imagine AF has no problem flying the 789 (that has more range than the 788) nonstop from BOG to CDG (4,669 nm). Sure, BOG is a bit higher than MEX, but also keep in mind that BOG-CDG is usually helped by tailwinds.
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717atOGG
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:53 pm

NichCage wrote:
I still don't understand how KLM flies AMS-BOG direct but BOG-AMS with a stopover, with the 787-9. What is stopping KLM from serving BOG direct both directions?

My guess is that they don't have any trouble arriving into BOG, but departing BOG with the weight of the fuel combined with the altitude necessitates the fuel stop.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
dcajet
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:01 am

NichCage wrote:
I still don't understand how KLM flies AMS-BOG direct but BOG-AMS with a stopover, with the 787-9. What is stopping KLM from serving BOG direct both directions?


Bogota is at 2,650 meters over sea level. Amsterdam is at sea level (or below it). If KL wishes to depart BOG with any meaningful payload, a stop en route BOG-AMS is required.

EddieDude wrote:
If AM can fly nonstop the 788 from MEX to NRT (6,087 nm), I imagine AF has no problem flying the 789 (that has more range than the 788) nonstop from BOG to CDG (4,669 nm). Sure, BOG is a bit higher than MEX, but also keep in mind that BOG-CDG is usually helped by tailwinds.


But do we know what payload restrictions AM gets hit with on the nonstop MEX-NRT route? That is what we need to know before comparing it with BOG-CDG.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:09 am

dcajet wrote:
EddieDude wrote:
If AM can fly nonstop the 788 from MEX to NRT (6,087 nm), I imagine AF has no problem flying the 789 (that has more range than the 788) nonstop from BOG to CDG (4,669 nm). Sure, BOG is a bit higher than MEX, but also keep in mind that BOG-CDG is usually helped by tailwinds.


But do we know what payload restrictions AM gets hit with on the nonstop MEX-NRT route? That is what we need to know before comparing it with BOG-CDG.

Dunno about AM, but NH on the same route (MEX-NRT) normally has a max payload of ~11t. Also BOG-NRT is almost 1500nm longer than MEX-CDG, which will affect the payload quite a bit.

Cheers
Michael
 
LAXLHR
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:23 am

Summa767 wrote:
76er wrote:
Will it be nonstop to CDG? The 789 must take quite the a weight penalty then. KL flies via CTG on the way back for a reason...


It must be noted that there is a new schedule that goes with changing the aircraft type for the route.

Traditionally AF has departed BOG atvaround 6pm and has recently put it forward a couple of hours, but the 787-9 schedule is for a midnight departure from BOG. At that time the ambient temperature is typically significantly lower -so takes the "hot" from the "hot and high", helping performance.

In any case, AF does not move that much cargo from BOG. It actually transports way more on the CDG-BOG leg.

KL is a different story. AMS is that much further and probably does need the large amount of cargo that it carries for the route to be viable. Hence the CTG stop.


High, yes. Hot, no. Bogota rarely gets over 70 degrees throughout the year, including at the height of summer.
BA JM EA GK QH PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL QQ UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR PG MH AK CX U2 EK 9W 6E UK G8 TP VY VN PC LO OK

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
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AASAP777
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:01 pm

Just check their forecast. "Hot" does not apply to Bogotá:

High for today at 17 C and the low at 7 C. I found that rather cold for Latin American standards, however, we know it's due to the altitude.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
Summa767
Posts: 1806
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Re: Air France to fly 787-9 to Bogota

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:35 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
Summa767 wrote:
76er wrote:
Will it be nonstop to CDG? The 789 must take quite the a weight penalty then. KL flies via CTG on the way back for a reason...


It must be noted that there is a new schedule that goes with changing the aircraft type for the route.

Traditionally AF has departed BOG atvaround 6pm and has recently put it forward a couple of hours, but the 787-9 schedule is for a midnight departure from BOG. At that time the ambient temperature is typically significantly lower -so takes the "hot" from the "hot and high", helping performance.

In any case, AF does not move that much cargo from BOG. It actually transports way more on the CDG-BOG leg.

KL is a different story. AMS is that much further and probably does need the large amount of cargo that it carries for the route to be viable. Hence the CTG stop.


High, yes. Hot, no. Bogota rarely gets over 70 degrees throughout the year, including at the height of summer.


I know that perfectly well, but even if 18 or 20 degrees does not qualify as hot in your own book, it certainly does for flight operations. The performance difference of daytime vs middle of the night will be important and hence the schedule change.

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