TWFlyGuy
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:12 pm

tphuang wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
To me, the ETOPS certification is the big stepping stone. They've figured out international flying in Mexico and the Caribbean/Latin America. With ETOPS does that make them consider East Coast to Western Europe before B6 and others jump in?

No chance unless they get something with longer range than 738max and start putting premium cabin in. They can't even compete in the high end transcon market with what they have.


Never say never. One driver could be business travel. As much as people like to think it's all the traveler's choice I fly who my employer (via Concur...that damned Concur) tells me is the recommended option. If WN can launch some Western European flights and compete on price, people will fly them including business travelers. And when you think about it, BOS-SNN/DUB/LGW/MAN if the 8MAX can make all of those isn't much different than what all US carriers are offering in Y class on transcons. Heck, maybe they can even make ISP a larger base again.
 
atsiang
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:40 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:26 pm

Hard to choose WN when HA offers a better product, with widebody comfort and a meal and of course assigned seating. Over the years I've flown less and less on WN and the whole check in process is just terribly annoying. Now as UA Premier Gold there is really no reason for me to fly WN.
 
SWAplanner
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:33 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:26 pm

jumbojet wrote:
evank516 wrote:
[
Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?


Better than paying $500+ more for a little food and free alcohol and a monitor...
 
tphuang
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:36 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
To me, the ETOPS certification is the big stepping stone. They've figured out international flying in Mexico and the Caribbean/Latin America. With ETOPS does that make them consider East Coast to Western Europe before B6 and others jump in?

No chance unless they get something with longer range than 738max and start putting premium cabin in. They can't even compete in the high end transcon market with what they have.


Never say never. One driver could be business travel. As much as people like to think it's all the traveler's choice I fly who my employer (via Concur...that damned Concur) tells me is the recommended option. If WN can launch some Western European flights and compete on price, people will fly them including business travelers. And when you think about it, BOS-SNN/DUB/LGW/MAN if the 8MAX can make all of those isn't much different than what all US carriers are offering in Y class on transcons. Heck, maybe they can even make ISP a larger base again.


Wn would be flying out of bwi rather than bos. They'd get destroyed on an 8 hour flight out of bos.

The problem is that wn model of all y doesn't work well on longer flight where 737 narrow cabin is really uncomfortable and j class premium cover the low rasm from y cabin. Even domestically, wn doesn't compete on routes like JFK lax or bos sfo or even fll lax where premium options exist and y prices are rock bottom.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:51 pm

Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


Tons of things to do - read a book, talk with your seat mates, nap. watch a movie on a tablet... Or, just look out the window and admire the sunny skies and clear blue deep ocean waters. If Southwest's MAXs don't have a high end IFE, that wouldn't stop me. There are plenty of things to do to occupy one's time. If the price is right to the islands, I doubt that the lack of a high end IFE would stop many people, at all.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 402
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:56 pm

jumbojet wrote:
evank516 wrote:
[
Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?
If you bring your own device, they do offer free live tv plus some prerecorded shows. I also believe they offer free snack boxes on longer flights.
 
fastmover
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:57 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
"Coming in 2018". Curious to see what routes they will serve.

Now that this is basically settled, cue the B6 and Hawaii rumors (although they will probably go trans-atlantic before Hawaii).



Not to be off topic.

But if JetBlue ever announces anything it will be trans-Atlantic.

With HA established and United dumping capacity and now SWA I doubt they would go for it anytime soon.
 
airzona11
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:07 pm

atsiang wrote:
Hard to choose WN when HA offers a better product, with widebody comfort and a meal and of course assigned seating. Over the years I've flown less and less on WN and the whole check in process is just terribly annoying. Now as UA Premier Gold there is really no reason for me to fly WN.


You fly enough to be Premier Gold with United so are a seasoned traveler, what is "terribly annoying" about having to check in 24 hours before a flight? You do not get a meal on UA to the islands in Y. The majority of their flights to the islands are single aisle on UA. And the same goes for all the other airlines too. For the Y traveler, hard to see anything that is not on par, let alone below when comparing Y class. They are more than likely going to be flying their newest equipment on the route as well. You are Gold so get Y+ which is an awesome UA product. But if you fly UA that much, why would you entertain HA or WN anyways?

This is such a tired argument. WN is the largest domestic US airline by passengers... they aren't a niche player. But that is the beauty of competition, and why WN entering the market is great for consumers. If you only fly First Class or feel WN doesn't meet your needs, you have options to purchase. Now the very large and captive WN frequent flyer base as an in-house option.
 
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Super80Fan
Posts: 522
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:09 pm

atsiang wrote:
Hard to choose WN when HA offers a better product, with widebody comfort and a meal and of course assigned seating. Over the years I've flown less and less on WN and the whole check in process is just terribly annoying. Now as UA Premier Gold there is really no reason for me to fly WN.


You are in the minority. Many, many people are going to choose WN and not give UA a second thought unless UA starts $99 flights to Hawaii and WN is selling $400 flights.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
gregn21
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:10 pm

I don’t think SNA has been mentioned yet. Seems like a huge opportunity . . .
 
evank516
Posts: 365
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:20 pm

jumbojet wrote:
evank516 wrote:
[
Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?


I have the Gold Delta SkyMiles AMEX card so I get the first bag free anyway :D
 
kiowa
Posts: 85
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:21 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
atsiang wrote:
Hard to choose WN when HA offers a better product, with widebody comfort and a meal and of course assigned seating. Over the years I've flown less and less on WN and the whole check in process is just terribly annoying. Now as UA Premier Gold there is really no reason for me to fly WN.


You are in the minority. Many, many people are going to choose WN and not give UA a second thought unless UA starts $99 flights to Hawaii and WN is selling $400 flights.


There’s always someone attracted to the cheapest anything. 4 hours in a 737 is still painful
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:30 pm

gregn21 wrote:
I don’t think SNA has been mentioned yet. Seems like a huge opportunity . . .


SNA and BUR will most likely come with the MAX7 ETOPS in 2019/2020.

Unless MAX8 can successfully make it without a weight problems,still remain profitable given SNA and BUR short Runways.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:31 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
If you bring your own device, they do offer free live tv plus some prerecorded shows. I also believe they offer free snack boxes on longer flights.


Not really...on longer flights you get a choice of "higher tier assorted snacks" of various Nabisco brands. Even with that it still can't touch what Jetblue offers snack wise

Can WN realistically keep their two checked bags flying to HI? With ETOPS fuel requirements can a 738/7M8 make it west coast -Hawaii (or vice versa) with 175 pax and 350 bags?
 
SWADawg
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:33 pm

kiowa wrote:

There’s always someone attracted to the cheapest anything. 4 hours in a 737 is still painful


Certainly no more painful than flying UA, AS, or DL on their 737's on the exact same city pairs that WN will be serving with the MAX-8. I know there are a lot of WN haters on A.net but saying that the WN coach product to Hawaii is going to be inferior to the above mentioned carriers is disengenuous at best. Make no mistake, WN is going to be a big player in the West Coast to Hawaii market and they have the deep pockets and large California customer base to be highly successful right out of the gate. I wish this would have happened a decade ago before AS became so entrenched on these routes, but I'm very happy we're here now. Aloha.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
evank516
Posts: 365
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:35 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
evank516 wrote:
[
Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?


Devil's advocate a bit, but what value is free alcohol? It's $5-$8 a drink. I've gotten Delta Comfort + and I can't drink my way to that price point without killing myself. Same with food, I suppose.

IFE on WN is obviously BYOD. Is that too much to ask of passengers?

I know this is mainly a matter of passenger opinion and/or preference. I guess I just don't see the NEED for any of those options. Get me to my destination comfortably, most importantly - SAFE, and on time, at a value I am willing to pay.


What happens when our own device loses battery by trying to access the in flight wifi for the 7-8 hour flight? I don't know about you, but the more features that are enabled with my smartphone, the faster that battery dies. I don't have an iPad or any other kind of tablet. It's my S7Plus and my headphones. Plus wifi signal is not always available, and I'm willing to bet there will be gaps in wifi service from California to Honolulu.

Side note: I also live on the East Coast, which means at least one connection plus one extra stop if I wanted to fly WN to Hawaii. Also, I'm used to jetBlue and now Delta's expansion of their PTV AVOD. DL and B6 have really spoiled me for other airlines.
Last edited by evank516 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
FA9295
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:43 pm

I think these routes to Hawaii are highly possible for WN... Probably not all of them will happen, but at least some of these routes may be possibilities...

SNA-HNL
ONT-HNL
BUR-HNL
LGB-HNL (they may want to beat B6 to the punch)
LAS-HNL
SAN-HNL
SJC-HNL
OAK-HNL
SMF-HNL
PDX-HNL
SEA-HNL

They may serve other markets other than HNL as well... (probably OGG or KOA)
 
molitvic20
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:33 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:45 pm

This is huge for Southwest. At their prices, this could be a step in the heart for other carriers. Ive been to Hawaii so many times. You can do Hawaii cheap if you really wanted to. The most expensive thing about Hawaii, is getting there. Once you get there you can have a budget of $500 and still have a freakin blast! A flight on United from IAH to HNL is easily around $1000... I wouldn't be surprised if Southwest had tickets at $500 round trip, obviously with a stop at LAX. LAX to HNL, I also wouldn't be surprised if we saw tickets get as low at $99. Southwest Airlines ladies and gentlemen is how an airline should operate. Even though I don't fly for them, yet. Their doing something right.
 
Bald1983
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Hawaii Service

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:46 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
What? How is that an announcement? We have known they have "had the intention" to serve Hawaii for a while now...


Now it is in the works.
 
Bald1983
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:47 pm

SWAplanner wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
evank516 wrote:
[
Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?


Better than paying $500+ more for a little food and free alcohol and a monitor...


Seriously doubt that the fares on other carriers will be that much more.
 
Bald1983
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:50 pm

airzona11 wrote:
atsiang wrote:
Hard to choose WN when HA offers a better product, with widebody comfort and a meal and of course assigned seating. Over the years I've flown less and less on WN and the whole check in process is just terribly annoying. Now as UA Premier Gold there is really no reason for me to fly WN.


You fly enough to be Premier Gold with United so are a seasoned traveler, what is "terribly annoying" about having to check in 24 hours before a flight? You do not get a meal on UA to the islands in Y. The majority of their flights to the islands are single aisle on UA. And the same goes for all the other airlines too. For the Y traveler, hard to see anything that is not on par, let alone below when comparing Y class. They are more than likely going to be flying their newest equipment on the route as well. You are Gold so get Y+ which is an awesome UA product. But if you fly UA that much, why would you entertain HA or WN anyways?

This is such a tired argument. WN is the largest domestic US airline by passengers... they aren't a niche player. But that is the beauty of competition, and why WN entering the market is great for consumers. If you only fly First Class or feel WN doesn't meet your needs, you have options to purchase. Now the very large and captive WN frequent flyer base as an in-house option.


The only advantage really is assigned seating on most competitors.
 
spineda
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:57 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:55 pm

Why would Hawaii service be initially served using ETOPS-equipped -800's instead of the MAX 8?
 
boilerla
Posts: 391
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:57 pm

Bald1983 wrote:
The only advantage really is assigned seating on most competitors.

Actually I think the biggest advantage other competitors will have will be schedule/departure options given their fleet flexibility. Unless you fly out of California, HA/UA can offer you a better schedule with more time in the islands because they're not limited to a 737.

People west of the Rockies especially would be better served on HA/UA/DL--UA added a lot more capacity out of DEN to all the major tourist cities on the islands timed to connect with a lot of evening flights, DL has flights out of SLC, etc.
 
redflyer
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:10 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:


IFE on WN is obviously BYOD. Is that too much to ask of passengers?

I know this is mainly a matter of passenger opinion and/or preference. I guess I just don't see the NEED for any of those options. Get me to my destination comfortably, most importantly - SAFE, and on time, at a value I am willing to pay.


One of the better, more common-sense comments I've read on here in years.
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
redflyer
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:14 pm

atsiang wrote:
Hard to choose WN when HA offers a better product, with widebody comfort and a meal and of course assigned seating. Over the years I've flown less and less on WN and the whole check in process is just terribly annoying. Now as UA Premier Gold there is really no reason for me to fly WN.

I fly less WN these days when I fly for leisure because that means I'm flying with family and the aggravation of trying to get seated next to each other is not worth it to me. When I fly solo, though, I'm happy to go WN. As for the "whole check in process" being terribly annoying, I don't see it that way. They still have one of the most orderly boarding processes I've seen. But back on topic...

I wonder how WN's entry into the market is going to impact HA's offering via pricing pressures that HA will now face?
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
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Aloha717200
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:21 pm

It's about goddamn time.
 
tphuang
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:22 pm

Regardless of what you think of southwest product, there are clearly many people that will fly them given their strong base in California. And I don't think you can argue that somehow wn seat comfort is worse than any other airline 737 y class, since they have pretty good pitch and seat width is actually tiny bit better due to the narrow aisle.

Now they lag in terms of on board food options and ife, but that doesn't seem to stop people from flying them on bwi lax.

I think ha and as will be the most hurt by this since their yield will be going down.

I would pay premium to fly ha over wn, but I don't know how many other people would.
 
32andBelow
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:32 pm

If they do inner island I imagine it'll just be like triangle routings. Could have one plane go XXX-OGG-HNL-YYY and another YYY-HNL-OGG-XXX
 
airzona11
Posts: 797
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:33 pm

boilerla wrote:
Bald1983 wrote:
The only advantage really is assigned seating on most competitors.

Actually I think the biggest advantage other competitors will have will be schedule/departure options given their fleet flexibility. Unless you fly out of California, HA/UA can offer you a better schedule with more time in the islands because they're not limited to a 737.

People west of the Rockies especially would be better served on HA/UA/DL--UA added a lot more capacity out of DEN to all the major tourist cities on the islands timed to connect with a lot of evening flights, DL has flights out of SLC, etc.


True ( I assume you mean East of the Rockies). However, WN is going after and has traditionally always been Point to Point. WN is going to want to attract as much O/D traffic as they can (the most profitable). CA-Hawaii is the largest market and that is what they are going to go after.
 
TW787
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:50 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:45 pm

SWAplanner wrote:

Better than paying $500+ more for a little food and free alcohol and a monitor...


Hey SWAplanner, welcome to the forum. And thank you for illustrating the quality of WN's network planning department with your very first post. California to Hawaii average fare for the industry is $281. So if you're planning on a $500 differential, you must be planning on paying your pax $219 for the flight. Or maybe you meant round trip. $281 x 2 = $562. So you're planning on a one way avg fare of $31 ($62 RT)

Good luck with that!
 
Judge1310
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:00 pm

TerminalD wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
Article from Dallas Morning News, they had this ready to post.
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... ns-service

Quote:

I wonder if they have moved red-eyes ahead of code-share? The issue with red-eyes is the ops software is written so that it needs a "hard stop" at some point during when the day when no flights are scheduled to be in the air. I would *HOPE* they are not going to fly to Hawaii without the ability to do red-eyes.

Yes, it is possible to do it, but it will connect to nothing and basically takes away nearly all their natural network advantages. OTOH, the talk of operating inter-island may imply they will not do red-eyes because connecting on the island end would make it less necessary to connect on the USA side. I think the hard-stop is at around 0400 Eastern. That's 2200 in Hawaii. They could close down ops by that time inter-island, but it would be pretty limiting as they would probably have to allow an hour buffer for routine delays. Now the last inter-island flights would be departing at 2015. Not optimal, but feasible.


Can we stop with this inane "theory" already? WN's software suites can handle red eyes..they have such flights during irregular operations. 0400 ET is only 0100 PT...and often flights are still operating during those hours. They're not operating under the "old system" that some of you seem to hold so dear...
 
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XAM2175
Posts: 592
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:02 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Aloha says aloha. And CFM will be loving all the new spare engine purchases.


The main problem with the CFM56 and other high-bypass turbofans on inter-island work is the number of incomplete thermal cycles the engine is put through if it's used for high-frequency inter-island work only - so short turn after short turn after short turn and so on. Flying from West Coast to HNL, doing an out-and-back inter-island, and then back to the mainland won't be any problem at all, similar to the way WN rotate NGs into and out of intra-Texas work.
 
barney captain
Posts: 1715
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:05 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
TerminalD wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
Article from Dallas Morning News, they had this ready to post.
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... ns-service

Quote:


Can we stop with this inane "theory" already? WN's software suites can handle red eyes..they have such flights during irregular operations. 0400 ET is only 0100 PT...and often flights are still operating during those hours. They're not operating under the "old system" that some of you seem to hold so dear...



However, from the Q&A -

Will you offer red-eye/overnight service?

Southwest does not currently offer overnight, so called redeye flights, and we have no plans to introduce that modification to our flight scheduling, at this time.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3033
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:09 pm

Leg room is the one thing I care about. I can rest, read a book, look out the window, or bring my entertainment.
 
Judge1310
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:12 pm

barney captain wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
TerminalD wrote:


Can we stop with this inane "theory" already? WN's software suites can handle red eyes..they have such flights during irregular operations. 0400 ET is only 0100 PT...and often flights are still operating during those hours. They're not operating under the "old system" that some of you seem to hold so dear...



However, from the Q&A -

Will you offer red-eye/overnight service?

Southwest does not currently offer overnight, so called redeye flights, and we have no plans to introduce that modification to our flight scheduling, at this time.


Indeed, yet you've missed my point. I said "...they have such flights during irregular operations...". I was referencing software functionality not current route scheduling practices.
 
Chemist
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:21 pm

I literally, in the late '90's, posted on the newsgroups (anybody remember those) a post entitled "Southwest to Hawaii?". That's because the NG had just come out and it had transcon range for the first time.

I didn't expect it to take this long, but what the heck, better late than never!

I'd love to see BUR-the islands although I doubt that's going to happen. But Aloha did it for a while.
 
barney captain
Posts: 1715
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:32 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
barney captain wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:

Can we stop with this inane "theory" already? WN's software suites can handle red eyes..they have such flights during irregular operations. 0400 ET is only 0100 PT...and often flights are still operating during those hours. They're not operating under the "old system" that some of you seem to hold so dear...



However, from the Q&A -

Will you offer red-eye/overnight service?

Southwest does not currently offer overnight, so called redeye flights, and we have no plans to introduce that modification to our flight scheduling, at this time.


Indeed, yet you've missed my point. I said "...they have such flights during irregular operations...". I was referencing software functionality not current route scheduling practices.


I didn't miss your point, i was simply connecting it to the discussion at hand.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Bald1983
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:33 pm

boilerla wrote:
Bald1983 wrote:
The only advantage really is assigned seating on most competitors.

Actually I think the biggest advantage other competitors will have will be schedule/departure options given their fleet flexibility. Unless you fly out of California, HA/UA can offer you a better schedule with more time in the islands because they're not limited to a 737.

People west of the Rockies especially would be better served on HA/UA/DL--UA added a lot more capacity out of DEN to all the major tourist cities on the islands timed to connect with a lot of evening flights, DL has flights out of SLC, etc.


That will be an advantage. I believe to counter act that advantage, I would not be surprised in SWA flying from some secondary California markets, such as ONT to Hawaii.
 
barney captain
Posts: 1715
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:34 pm

Chemist wrote:
I literally, in the late '90's, posted on the newsgroups (anybody remember those) a post entitled "Southwest to Hawaii?". That's because the NG had just come out and it had transcon range for the first time.

I didn't expect it to take this long, but what the heck, better late than never!

I'd love to see BUR-the islands although I doubt that's going to happen. But Aloha did it for a while.



Correct, Aloha flew it from BUR/SNA - but in a 700. I agree with a previous poster that you won't see WN serve those markets until the MAX7. Our ETOPS MAX8's simply won't have the performance.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
evank516
Posts: 365
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:42 pm

spineda wrote:
Why would Hawaii service be initially served using ETOPS-equipped -800's instead of the MAX 8?


If the plane is already ETOPS-equipped, why delay the start of service by waiting for the 737MAX to be ETOPS ready? They may start out with the 738 so they can have the service underway, but will most likely switch to the 7M8 once they are ready to go.
 
smithbs
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:44 pm

FA9295 wrote:
I think these routes to Hawaii are highly possible for WN... Probably not all of them will happen, but at least some of these routes may be possibilities...

SNA-HNL
ONT-HNL
BUR-HNL
LGB-HNL (they may want to beat B6 to the punch)
LAS-HNL
SAN-HNL
SJC-HNL
OAK-HNL
SMF-HNL
PDX-HNL
SEA-HNL

They may serve other markets other than HNL as well... (probably OGG or KOA)


I'm not sure if I we'll see PDX or SEA. I think WN is going to Hawaii to satisfy their California customer base, which is where their network is more developed. I don't think WN's network in the northwest is strong enough to make SEA-HNL and PDX-HNL viable. I see enough competition between AS and HA for SEA-HNL and SEA-OGG alone to make it tough for a new entry to the market, and that's setting aside DL, UA, etc.
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 1645
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:52 pm

evank516 wrote:
alggag wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
With double connects (which they now sell), there's actually more potential connectivity than just MDW. In the current schedule, there's a 1520 departure on LAX-MDW that catches a pretty large bank at MDW with connections to plenty of places in the Eastern Time Zone. An 0600 departure from HNL, which would arrive LAX at 1400ish, would catch that flight. And other than the obvious TATL discussion, I'm not sure how much ETOPS would change things . There are some northeast-eastern Caribbean routes where ETOPS is potentially nice but not absolutely necessary. That's about it in the Western Hemisphere.


Do they? I know they can do for rebookings due to missed flights and other IRROPS but I still haven't seen a double connection offered up for sale. Plenty of 2 stop with change of planes in XYZ but the other stop is direct same plane service.

As for TATL, I agree it is still a long, long way off for WN. *Maybe* BWI-KEF if Iceland is still a hot destination in 5-10 years but I still give that super low odds. BWI-KEF is just slightly longer than LAX-HNL.


B6 will most likely beat WN to TATL. However WN already beat B6 to Hawaii.

Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


Another than IFE what makes DL different from Southwest in terms of things to do? On a 5 to 6 hour flight you can bring your own entertainment, sleep, read a good book/novel, talk to your seatmate and/or even stare out the window. It seems nowadays people want to be constantly entertained.
 
Chemist
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:58 pm

smithbs wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
I think these routes to Hawaii are highly possible for WN... Probably not all of them will happen, but at least some of these routes may be possibilities...

SNA-HNL
ONT-HNL
BUR-HNL
LGB-HNL (they may want to beat B6 to the punch)
LAS-HNL
SAN-HNL
SJC-HNL
OAK-HNL
SMF-HNL
PDX-HNL
SEA-HNL

They may serve other markets other than HNL as well... (probably OGG or KOA)


I'm not sure if I we'll see PDX or SEA. I think WN is going to Hawaii to satisfy their California customer base, which is where their network is more developed. I don't think WN's network in the northwest is strong enough to make SEA-HNL and PDX-HNL viable. I see enough competition between AS and HA for SEA-HNL and SEA-OGG alone to make it tough for a new entry to the market, and that's setting aside DL, UA, etc.


Yeah, it's interesting that this was announced during "California" week. I was flying WN yesterday out of SJC and saw the signs for California week. Smoke was really bad in the Bay Area.
 
evank516
Posts: 365
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:59 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
alggag wrote:

Do they? I know they can do for rebookings due to missed flights and other IRROPS but I still haven't seen a double connection offered up for sale. Plenty of 2 stop with change of planes in XYZ but the other stop is direct same plane service.

As for TATL, I agree it is still a long, long way off for WN. *Maybe* BWI-KEF if Iceland is still a hot destination in 5-10 years but I still give that super low odds. BWI-KEF is just slightly longer than LAX-HNL.


B6 will most likely beat WN to TATL. However WN already beat B6 to Hawaii.

Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


Another than IFE what makes DL different from Southwest in terms of things to do? On a 5 to 6 hour flight you can bring your own entertainment, sleep, read a good book/novel, talk to your seatmate and/or even stare out the window. It seems nowadays people want to be constantly entertained.


Well, I can upgrade to first class, fly on a bigger plane, have an assigned seat. Avoid multiple stops traveling to Hawaii from the east coast?
 
allegiantflyer
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:59 pm

Wow! It is so strange to hear this after years of "RUMOR" threads. I remember comping home from school in 3rd grade to read a "WN TO HAWAII" rumor thread, thats how long this has been going on, now I'm in college and its actually true.

Hugs news for Southwest, but lets not pretend this is going to be easy for them just because they are the largest in domestic travel, Hawaii is something new than what they are use too I'm sure they will eventually figure it out after a couple of years.


wnflyguy wrote:
I've said it before WN needs to beat Hawaiian airlines to the gate before they start flying the A320NEO.
By 2019/20 I think you will see WN in every market from SEA to SAN flying to Hawaii. Including SNA & BUR.

Aloha Flyguy


I still expect HA to have a vastly larger upper hand with the NEO. This service will largely hurt AS before rather than HA as they have become rather safe with their loyal base of fliers. And I don't see WN flying out of SEA to Hawaii, hopefully they fly out of PHX as w e havent received any LUV for the past half decade.
 
User avatar
WNflyer1523
Topic Author
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:00 pm

My route predictions from the Lower 48 to Hawaii:

More Likely:

SJC-HNL (they've been growing fast at SJC recently)
SJC-OGG
LAX-HNL
OAK-HNL
SAN-HNL

Still a possibility:
SMF-HNL
OAK-OGG
SFO-HNL
SFO-OGG
LAS-OGG
LAS-HNL
LAX-OGG
SAN-OGG
BUR-HNL
BUR-OGG
Someday KISP will succeed. Someday.
 
barney captain
Posts: 1715
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:08 pm

My educated guess would have most HI service coming out of OAK, with SJC, SMF, SAN and to a lesser extent LAX rounding out the opening launch.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
nc3rd
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:52 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:36 pm

SW always acts like they are going into unchartered territory with these new routes. Other airlines have been doing this for decades, and I for one wont be wanting to do it on an all coach 737. Hopefully HAL can get up and running to these secondary cities first.
The views written above are mine and mine alone and do not represent any official information from any airline or compan
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 2990
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:53 pm

SWAplanner wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
evank516 wrote:
[
Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?


Better than paying $500+ more for a little food and free alcohol and a monitor...


Are you promising Southwest is going to underprice Delta by $500 on every coach ticket to Hawaii?
 
barney captain
Posts: 1715
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:04 pm

SWAplanner wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
evank516 wrote:
[
Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?


Better than paying $500+ more for a little food and free alcohol and a monitor...


As someone who has purchased many full fare tickets from Cali to HI over the years, I'd call that a wild stretch.

I don't need all the "perks", but a USB charging port should be standard.
Southeast Of Disorder

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