https://twitter.com/SouthwestAir/status ... 6892938240
https://www.southwestaircommunity.com/t ... ba-p/61199
Details to come! What do you think their routes will be?

What? How is that an announcement? We have known they have "had the intention" to serve Hawaii for a while now...

Welcome to 1947!

Midwestindy wrote:

What? How is that an announcement? We have known they have had the intention to serve Hawaii for a while now...

True, I just changed the title.

"Coming in 2018". Curious to see what routes they will serve.

Now that this is basically settled, cue the B6 and Hawaii rumors (although they will probably go trans-atlantic before Hawaii).

I don't see anything specific (or anything at all) on the website yet. I even checked the route map.

I do hope for more details than we've had for the last few years...

bb

I wouldn’t rule out LAS as one of their destinations to Hawaii, although it’s very unlikely because they probably wouldn’t wanna risk that long of a flight.
Maybe one-stop same plane LAS-Hawaii service?

Article from Dallas Morning News, they had this ready to post.
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... ns-service

Quote:

"Watterson said that process can take a year or more and includes outfitting the aircraft with additional equipment and special training for flight crews. The carrier plans to start selling tickets to Hawaii in 2018, but the first flight might not launch until 2019."

"We intend to begin selling tickets in 2018, and while we’re not quite ready to offer our Customers specific schedule or market information, tonight’s announcement is going to be big news within the industry." -Gary Kelly

I think OAK, SJC, SAN are given.

Finally! Looking forward to seeing what routes they announce next year.

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think OAK, SJC, SAN are given.

Yawn, another 737 flying to the islands from primary California markets. Pressure from frequent flyers is likely one reason this is coming to fruition. I wish WN all the luck, it's a good market that makes customers happy to redeem points for vacations.

I am sure the loyal WN flyer will be happy with this turn of events. I'm hoping routes like RNO-SMF-HNL will pop up & give some direct flights from popular cities, not located on the west coast.

Attention A.netters! We now have another year or so to start what, about 4 dozen threads speculating on the routes, the schedules, fares, philosophy, pros-and-cons, etc. Let's not burn ourselves out this far out from specific announcements, let alone the start of the service to the Islands. (And that's not counting the half a dozen threads that we've already seen over the last few months...)

And I'm sure our usual WN Rumor Suppliers will keep us entertained for the next year or so!

Seriously though, it will be interesting to see what the incumbents in the Hawaiian market do now to prepare for this worthy competition, to make WN's entry as difficult as possible... I expect this will be discussed a bit also.

bb

I am actually quite surprised to hear that SWA is considering flying inter-island as stated in this news article...

"Southwest executives also acknowledged that they are evaluating offering interisland travel — a move that would cut into Hawaiian Airlines’ stranglehold in the islands and potentially hurt smaller local carriers Island Air, Mokulele Airlines and Makani Kai Air. In addition, Southwest said it is considering nonstop flights to neighbor islands."

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/10/11/business/business-breaking/southwest-airlines-makes-it-official-hawaii-service-on-the-way/

hnl808 wrote:

I am actually quite surprised to hear that SWA is considering flying inter-island as stated in this news article...

"Southwest executives also acknowledged that they are evaluating offering interisland travel — a move that would cut into Hawaiian Airlines’ stranglehold in the islands and potentially hurt smaller local carriers Island Air, Mokulele Airlines and Makani Kai Air. In addition, Southwest said it is considering nonstop flights to neighbor islands."

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/10/11/business/business-breaking/southwest-airlines-makes-it-official-hawaii-service-on-the-way/

Aloha says aloha. And CFM will be loving all the new spare engine purchases.

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think OAK, SJC, SAN are given.

LAX and SFO are also possibilities. LAS too if the 737-MAX8 has the range.

As if there aren't already enough flights between Hawaii and the west coast. lol

lavalampluva wrote:

As if there aren't already enough flights between Hawaii and the west coast. lol

Such are the limitations of a single fleet type....

SANFan wrote:

I don't see anything specific (or anything at all) on the website yet. I even checked the route map.

I do hope for more details than we've had for the last few years...

bb

It's in the Press Room

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... rve-hawaii

A.net has been speculating about this for as long as I can remember. It feels weird to see it be true.

Austin787 wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think OAK, SJC, SAN are given.

LAX and SFO are also possibilities. LAS too if the 737-MAX8 has the range.

In an earlier thread, OAK, LAX, SJC, SMF, and SAN have been designated as ETOPS mx bases, so that is a good starting point.

I can see OAK, SJC, SAN, LAX, SMF with current NG-ETOPS aircraft and then adding LAS & PHX when the MAX8 takes over the Hawaii Route Flying. Toss ups to me are PDX, SEA & ONT but I don't think AS would be too keen on that.

FLY

I think this is more about relevance for Californians than anything. Big hole is WN's network. SAN, LAX, SJC, OAK I think would be first.

flyiguy wrote:

but I don't think AS would be too keen on that.

And that is why WN will launch it.

FoxtrotSierra wrote:

flyiguy wrote:

but I don't think AS would be too keen on that.

And that is why WN will launch it.

Yeah, we do like to stir the pot! LOL

FLY

With this announcement and move, Hawaiian Air will probably have to be a little more aggressive in getting their birds to more mainland cities, as their model is pretty much built on Hawaii. With the possiblity of WN offering inter-island flights as well their Route Expansion staff should probably get to work.

some Australians wanting to visit Hawaii & USA mainland, may fly Jetstar to HNL & then Southwest to west coast, although others fares HNL/west coast should drop.

ridgid727 wrote:

With this announcement and move, Hawaiian Air will probably have to be a little more aggressive in getting their birds to more mainland cities, as their model is pretty much built on Hawaii. With the possiblity of WN offering inter-island flights as well their Route Expansion staff should probably get to work.

Maybe now HA can start HNL-BWI and siphon some of the East Coast-Hawaii traffic that Southwest would have had, on a nonstop route that Southwest will never be able to operate under its current plan.

Cool - good news for passengers, and good news for the Hawaii economy.

From a business standpoint, this will, indeed, be interesting to watch. Similar to Latin America and the Caribbean, Southwest is late to this party - and the time it's taken to finally take the plunge on Hawaii has given competitors a decade head start on developing the Mainland-Hawaii market. Alaska has perfected flying 737s from markets big and small up and down the west coast to Hawaii, and Hawaiian is now just starting to push into smaller markets on the Mainland and between the Mainland and the Outer Islands. And then of course there are AA, Delta and United, all of which have grown their Hawaii presence in recent years from their hubs and gateways. That means that - again, just like in Latin America and the Caribbean - Southwest is really going to have to work for it, and push hard, and spend money, to muscle its way into this market. I'm sure Southwest can do it - but it will be tough.

flyiguy wrote:

I can see OAK, SJC, SAN, LAX, SMF with current NG-ETOPS aircraft and then adding LAS & PHX when the MAX8 takes over the Hawaii Route Flying. Toss ups to me are PDX, SEA & ONT but I don't think AS would be too keen on that.

Agreed - OAK, LAX, SAN and SJC would seem like the obvious first jumping off points for Southwest given that they're all large (though also competitive and well-served) markets to Hawaii and offer lots of onward connectivity. It will be interesting to see how scheduling is done given that, absent redeyes, connectivity outside the west coast may be limited. Southwest could increase connectivity - at least pushing viable connecting markets further east to, say, the Mississippi river and MDW, by having planes RON in Hawaii and arrive on the west coast mid-afternoon.

More broadly, it's also interesting to consider where Southwest will go next once ETOPS certification is achieved.

Won’t make it from MSP without a connection. I’ll hope for a one-stop, same plane via any CA coastal city. Except WN would have to serve MSP to the west coast first. All these new service plans are taking away growth at my Home airport!

LAX772LR wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

As if there aren't already enough flights between Hawaii and the west coast. lol

Such are the limitations of a single fleet type....

I'm not sure it matters. Even if WN had a fleet of 787's, the flights would probably still be from the west coast to Hawaii. That is where the demand is.

Super80Fan wrote:

"Coming in 2018". Curious to see what routes they will serve.

Now that this is basically settled, cue the B6 and Hawaii rumors (although they will probably go trans-atlantic before Hawaii).

B6 will put its customers on Hawaiian going to Hawaii (at JFK, Hawaiian flies to JetBlue's terminal and is serviced by JetBlue---usually Gate 30).

FATFlyer wrote:

Article from Dallas Morning News, they had this ready to post.
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... ns-service

Quote:

"Watterson said that process can take a year or more and includes outfitting the aircraft with additional equipment and special training for flight crews. The carrier plans to start selling tickets to Hawaii in 2018, but the first flight might not launch until 2019."

So, I posted in another thread they recently delayed code share capability from 2018 to 2020 because of reordering IT priorities according to airlines that have asked them when it will be ready.

I wonder if they have moved red-eyes ahead of code-share? The issue with red-eyes is the ops software is written so that it needs a "hard stop" at some point during when the day when no flights are scheduled to be in the air. I would *HOPE* they are not going to fly to Hawaii without the ability to do red-eyes.

Yes, it is possible to do it, but it will connect to nothing and basically takes away nearly all their natural network advantages. OTOH, the talk of operating inter-island may imply they will not do red-eyes because connecting on the island end would make it less necessary to connect on the USA side. I think the hard-stop is at around 0400 Eastern. That's 2200 in Hawaii. They could close down ops by that time inter-island, but it would be pretty limiting as they would probably have to allow an hour buffer for routine delays. Now the last inter-island flights would be departing at 2015. Not optimal, but feasible.

To me, the ETOPS certification is the big stepping stone. They've figured out international flying in Mexico and the Caribbean/Latin America. With ETOPS does that make them consider East Coast to Western Europe before B6 and others jump in?

commavia wrote:

flyiguy wrote:

I can see OAK, SJC, SAN, LAX, SMF with current NG-ETOPS aircraft and then adding LAS & PHX when the MAX8 takes over the Hawaii Route Flying. Toss ups to me are PDX, SEA & ONT but I don't think AS would be too keen on that.

Agreed - OAK, LAX, SAN and SJC would seem like the obvious first jumping off points for Southwest given that they're all large (though also competitive and well-served) markets to Hawaii and offer lots of onward connectivity. It will be interesting to see how scheduling is done given that, absent redeyes, connectivity outside the west coast may be limited. Southwest could increase connectivity - at least pushing viable connecting markets further east to, say, the Mississippi river and MDW, by having planes RON in Hawaii and arrive on the west coast mid-afternoon.

More broadly, it's also interesting to consider where Southwest will go next once ETOPS certification is achieved.

With double connects (which they now sell), there's actually more potential connectivity than just MDW. In the current schedule, there's a 1520 departure on LAX-MDW that catches a pretty large bank at MDW with connections to plenty of places in the Eastern Time Zone. An 0600 departure from HNL, which would arrive LAX at 1400ish, would catch that flight. And other than the obvious TATL discussion, I'm not sure how much ETOPS would change things . There are some northeast-eastern Caribbean routes where ETOPS is potentially nice but not absolutely necessary. That's about it in the Western Hemisphere.

As if there aren't already enough flights between Hawaii and the west coast. lol

Sinner!!!!! There can never be enough flights to my future retirement destination!!!

To me, the ETOPS certification is the big stepping stone. They've figured out international flying in Mexico and the Caribbean/Latin America. With ETOPS does that make them consider East Coast to Western Europe before B6 and others jump in?

I doubt they'll transatlantic anytime soon, as in anytime in the next decade. As far as low cost and semi-low cost carriers go, Jetblue (presumably), Norwegian, Westjet, and others would seem to have that sewn up for the time being. Toss in the majors and there is no point in jumping into the lion's den prematurely. There's still plenty of money to be made, and additional routes to create, flying to Latin America and Hawaii. They could make a steady stream of income if they chose to take on Hawaiian head on and fly interisland, too, so that may be a priority for them - really get their foot in the door in that market before trying something else large like Europe.

Whatever they choose, I'm very excited. Here's hoping for ONT-Hawaii soon. SNA-Hawaii is probably too much to ask for, I guess.

TWFlyGuy wrote:

To me, the ETOPS certification is the big stepping stone. They've figured out international flying in Mexico and the Caribbean/Latin America. With ETOPS does that make them consider East Coast to Western Europe before B6 and others jump in?

No chance unless they get something with longer range than 738max and start putting premium cabin in. They can't even compete in the high end transcon market with what they have.

It's about time. Obviously, we all know they are going to fly to Hawaii from their operating bases and focus cities that are near the Pacific Ocean.

Cubsrule wrote:

With double connects (which they now sell), there's actually more potential connectivity than just MDW. In the current schedule, there's a 1520 departure on LAX-MDW that catches a pretty large bank at MDW with connections to plenty of places in the Eastern Time Zone. An 0600 departure from HNL, which would arrive LAX at 1400ish, would catch that flight. And other than the obvious TATL discussion, I'm not sure how much ETOPS would change things . There are some northeast-eastern Caribbean routes where ETOPS is potentially nice but not absolutely necessary. That's about it in the Western Hemisphere.

Do they? I know they can do for rebookings due to missed flights and other IRROPS but I still haven't seen a double connection offered up for sale. Plenty of 2 stop with change of planes in XYZ but the other stop is direct same plane service.

As for TATL, I agree it is still a long, long way off for WN. *Maybe* BWI-KEF if Iceland is still a hot destination in 5-10 years but I still give that super low odds. BWI-KEF is just slightly longer than LAX-HNL.

Cubsrule wrote:

With double connects (which they now sell), there's actually more potential connectivity than just MDW.

Hmm, double connects to fly 4,600 miles (a hypothetical CMH-MDW-LAX-HNL) on aircraft without buy onboard, AVOD, or power. Not for me, thanks.

It will be interesting to see how they get past the no-redeye practice and manage scheduling for passenger convenience (departure & arrival times), connectivity, and aircraft utilization. They've had plenty of time to study 737-operating competitors.

alggag wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

With double connects (which they now sell), there's actually more potential connectivity than just MDW. In the current schedule, there's a 1520 departure on LAX-MDW that catches a pretty large bank at MDW with connections to plenty of places in the Eastern Time Zone. An 0600 departure from HNL, which would arrive LAX at 1400ish, would catch that flight. And other than the obvious TATL discussion, I'm not sure how much ETOPS would change things . There are some northeast-eastern Caribbean routes where ETOPS is potentially nice but not absolutely necessary. That's about it in the Western Hemisphere.

Do they? I know they can do for rebookings due to missed flights and other IRROPS but I still haven't seen a double connection offered up for sale. Plenty of 2 stop with change of planes in XYZ but the other stop is direct same plane service.

As for TATL, I agree it is still a long, long way off for WN. *Maybe* BWI-KEF if Iceland is still a hot destination in 5-10 years but I still give that super low odds. BWI-KEF is just slightly longer than LAX-HNL.

B6 will most likely beat WN to TATL. However WN already beat B6 to Hawaii.

Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.

I'm very impartial to Southwest. Good airline no doubt but one has to wonder what has taken them so long to actually fly to Hawaii? We are almost into 2018, Southwest should already be serving the Hawaiian Islands. Makes you really see the one dimensional thinking that goes on with that airline.

WNflyer1523 wrote:

https://twitter.com/SouthwestAir/status/918313516892938240
https://www.southwestaircommunity.com/t ... ba-p/61199
Details to come! What do you think their routes will be?

Its about time!

Well the cats finally officially out of the bag!
Hawaii will be served first with the 737-800 ETOPS then the MAX8 at a later date once it receives full ETOPS certification. For those scratching their heads going what's that?
WN has be actively working behind the scenes getting the current 737-800 ETOPS certification ready for Hawaii operations and certification.

I've said it before WN needs to beat Hawaiian airlines to the gate before they start flying the A320NEO.
By 2019/20 I think you will see WN in every market from SEA to SAN flying to Hawaii. Including SNA & BUR.

It's been long speculation WN might do inter island service. Now at the start I really don't see an aggressive service plan for inter island. I see it more along the lines of aircraft MX and crew coverage.

It's going to be hard for WN to pull Hawaiian airlines elite
Daily Business traffic. But the Sats from the Hawaii summit shown tourists Island hoping is at a historic low.
WN few inter island service with it's BAGS fly free and every seats a reward seat will restore the island hoping tourists traffic.

Hope it all works out for WN!

Aloha Flyguy

evank516 wrote:

[
Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think OAK, SJC, SAN are given.

How about from SMF to any of the islands?

Yawwwwnnnnnn. How is this news? They said this multiple times on previous earnings calls.

alggag wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

With double connects (which they now sell), there's actually more potential connectivity than just MDW. In the current schedule, there's a 1520 departure on LAX-MDW that catches a pretty large bank at MDW with connections to plenty of places in the Eastern Time Zone. An 0600 departure from HNL, which would arrive LAX at 1400ish, would catch that flight. And other than the obvious TATL discussion, I'm not sure how much ETOPS would change things . There are some northeast-eastern Caribbean routes where ETOPS is potentially nice but not absolutely necessary. That's about it in the Western Hemisphere.

Do they? I know they can do for rebookings due to missed flights and other IRROPS but I still haven't seen a double connection offered up for sale. Plenty of 2 stop with change of planes in XYZ but the other stop is direct same plane service.

As for TATL, I agree it is still a long, long way off for WN. *Maybe* BWI-KEF if Iceland is still a hot destination in 5-10 years but I still give that super low odds. BWI-KEF is just slightly longer than LAX-HNL.

You're correct; sorry. The recent change was to sell 3 stops/1 plane change, not double connects. Still, running thru flights to interior hubs permits similar connectivity.

tphuang wrote:

TWFlyGuy wrote:

To me, the ETOPS certification is the big stepping stone. They've figured out international flying in Mexico and the Caribbean/Latin America. With ETOPS does that make them consider East Coast to Western Europe before B6 and others jump in?

No chance unless they get something with longer range than 738max and start putting premium cabin in. They can't even compete in the high end transcon market with what they have.

Say what are Boeing sales department and WN purchasing saying about the MOM/797?

jumbojet wrote:

evank516 wrote:

[
Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?

Devil's advocate a bit, but what value is free alcohol? It's $5-$8 a drink. I've gotten Delta Comfort + and I can't drink my way to that price point without killing myself. Same with food, I suppose.

IFE on WN is obviously BYOD. Is that too much to ask of passengers?

I know this is mainly a matter of passenger opinion and/or preference. I guess I just don't see the NEED for any of those options. Get me to my destination comfortably, most importantly - SAFE, and on time, at a value I am willing to pay.