SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 4946
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:31 pm

They hope/expect to get flights to YUL, YHZ and somewhere in the U.S. and Europe. Not sure where in Europe, perhaps London, imagine that, flying from London to London ;), unless the CEO is trying to attract Norwegian, Icelandair or WOW.

YXU is in the middle of a catchment area of 1.7 million population, per their site, and has a main runway of 8800 feet long.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/lo ... -1.4346765


http://flylondon.ca/flight-information/ ... ons-we-fly
 
Steelhead
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:04 am

Re: London International Airport (YXU) oised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:33 pm

They might get some intra-candian LCC-service, but everything else is a dream. Same for YHM and YKF.
 
cedarjet
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Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:39 pm

Canada is quite protective though isn’t it? Can Norwegian Wow or Thomas Cook etc just start services to Canadian airports?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Dominion301
Posts: 795
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:55 pm

This article is full of errors:

"In the last decade, passenger numbers jumped from 250,000 to 550,000 – with 8 per cent growth every year"

That's simply not true. It's gone from more like 450k to 550k pax.

"That's why the airport is offering a dozen direct domestic and non-domestic flights – another milestone for the airport that used to offer one direct flight to Toronto in the early 2000's."

Again 100% false. Back then YXU still had NW to DTW and has had AC to YOW for decades on top of YYZ.

"Currently the airport has seven carriers – a big jump from two in 2011"

I only know of five (AC, WS, TS, WG and 5T for the Celebrity X Fly & Cruise charters), unless they're counting cargo airlines.

Having said that, YXU will over time gain more flights/routes. However, I'd imagine for FI & WOW that YOW, YWG, YQB and YYC would all rank ahead of YXU in terms of priority to serve.

YUL and reestablishing a connection to a US hub are the most realistic possibilities for YXU in the next 3-5 years in terms of new routes, plus summer seasonal service to YHZ and YEG.
 
c933103
Posts: 1338
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:01 pm

The airport could probably be renamed as something like Canadian London Airport to reduce customer confusion regarding the name...Which would probably also be helpful to attract airlines service..
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 2990
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:18 pm

The customs tax/fee play Canada-USA vs. USA-USA (via DTW, but others, too) is overwhelming. It just hammers any possible U.S. routes from YXU or YHM. DTW's advantage in destinations, frequency, and LCC competition inhibits YXU, too.

Taxes (CAD$) YUL-MCO vs. BUF-MCO:

Canadian Goods and Services Tax (XG)
CA$8.76
USDA APHIS Fee (XA)
CA$5.00
US Immigration Fee (XY)
CA$8.80
US Customs Fee (YC)
CA$6.90
Montreal Trudeau Airport Improvement Fee (SQ)
CA$25.00
Quebec Sales Tax (XQ)
CA$2.49
US International Arrival Tax (US)
CA$22.60
Canadian Air Travelers Security Charge (CA)
CA$12.10
US International Departure Tax (US)
CA$22.60
US September 11th Security Fee (AY)
CA$7.00
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF)
CA$5.60

BUF-MCO (also CAD$) per Matrix.

US Transportation Tax (US)
CA$15.20
US September 11th Security Fee (AY)
CA$14.00
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF)
CA$11.20
US Flight Segment Tax (ZP)
CA$10.20
 
klm617
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:33 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
This article is full of errors:

"In the last decade, passenger numbers jumped from 250,000 to 550,000 – with 8 per cent growth every year"

That's simply not true. It's gone from more like 450k to 550k pax.

"That's why the airport is offering a dozen direct domestic and non-domestic flights – another milestone for the airport that used to offer one direct flight to Toronto in the early 2000's."

Again 100% false. Back then YXU still had NW to DTW and has had AC to YOW for decades on top of YYZ.

"Currently the airport has seven carriers – a big jump from two in 2011"

I only know of five (AC, WS, TS, WG and 5T for the Celebrity X Fly & Cruise charters), unless they're counting cargo airlines.

Having said that, YXU will over time gain more flights/routes. However, I'd imagine for FI & WOW that YOW, YWG, YQB and YYC would all rank ahead of YXU in terms of priority to serve.

YUL and reestablishing a connection to a US hub are the most realistic possibilities for YXU in the next 3-5 years in terms of new routes, plus summer seasonal service to YHZ and YEG.



I think even Windsor will land a European flight before London does.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 4946
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:43 pm

Steelhead wrote:
They might get some intra-candian LCC-service, but everything else is a dream. Same for YHM and YKF.


I think that too, at least for the forseable future.

Dominion301 wrote:
I only know of five (AC, WS, TS, WG and 5T for the Celebrity X Fly & Cruise charters), unless they're counting cargo airlines


That's what I counted too and basically its AC and WS during summers.

Dominion301 wrote:
IHaving said that, YXU will over time gain more flights/routes. However, I'd imagine for FI & WOW that YOW, YWG, YQB and YYC would all rank ahead of YXU in terms of priority to serve.


Agree.

Dominion301 wrote:
IYUL and reestablishing a connection to a US hub are the most realistic possibilities for YXU in the next 3-5 years in terms of new routes, plus summer seasonal service to YHZ and YEG.


I've noticed that on the destinations served from YXU they mention Ottawa/Montreal. I know the latter is closer to YOW than to YXU but it doesn't make it a direct destination by air.
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:49 pm

Dang, my first reaction: "how many other London airports have I not heard of!" . Okay, Ontario - got it.
halfway between Toronto and Detroit - man, that seems like a stretch for Airlines to want to tackle, especially those already serving Toronto efficiently with NB, such as FI.
seems like all risk, little reward.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 795
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:59 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
I've noticed that on the destinations served from YXU they mention Ottawa/Montreal. I know the latter is closer to YOW than to YXU but it doesn't make it a direct destination by air.


Until about a year ago, 1 of the daily YXU-YOW flights same-planed to YUL. That's not the case any more and all links to YUL involve either a YOW or YYZ connection. All else being equal, it's about $10 cheaper to connect at YOW thanks to paying the connection fee AIF at YYZ.
 
caribb
Posts: 1527
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:33 am

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:08 pm

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this but London is one of the wealthiest cities in Canada or at least in amongst a cluster of wealthier cities so it's not totally outlandish to propose flights to Europe from it's airport..I have a feeling they could fill up the front cabin easily enough if there was a seasonal weekly flight to say London England or Dublin Ireland. Throw in a 738MAX, CS100 or CS300 and I'd bet someone could make it work (Air Canada?).

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableau ... 7a-eng.htm
Last edited by caribb on Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2296
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Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:12 pm

A London-London flight...interesting.
 
johns624
Posts: 1579
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:09 am

caribb wrote:
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this but London is one of the wealthiest cities in Canada or at least in amongst a cluster of wealthier cities so it's not totally outlandish to propose flights to Europe from it's airport..I have a feeling they could fill up the front cabin easily enough if there was a seasonal weekly flight to say London England or Dublin Ireland. Throw in a 738MAX, CS100 or CS300 and I'd bet someone could make it work (Air Canada?).

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableau ... 7a-eng.htm
I had thought that London had fallen on hard times since the locomotive plant and the car assembly plant in nearby St Thomas closed?
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 4946
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:55 pm

caribb wrote:
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this but London is one of the wealthiest cities in Canada or at least in amongst a cluster of wealthier cities so it's not totally outlandish to propose flights to Europe from it's airport.


It hasn't been mentioned yet. Could AC try it with a 737 MAX?
 
klm617
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:42 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
caribb wrote:
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this but London is one of the wealthiest cities in Canada or at least in amongst a cluster of wealthier cities so it's not totally outlandish to propose flights to Europe from it's airport.


It hasn't been mentioned yet. Could AC try it with a 737 MAX?


AC doesn't even serve Europe from YWG so I don't think YXU is i the cards. I would suspect if anything Airtransat would do weekly LGW flights but as I say I think YQG is more likely than YXU to get service like this.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 62
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Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:46 pm

cedarjet wrote:
Canada is quite protective though isn’t it? Can Norwegian Wow or Thomas Cook etc just start services to Canadian airports?


Absolutely. Canada and the EU have full open skies.

That 1.7 million catchment area for YXU is very generous. That's clearly including places like Waterloo Region, Guelph, and even Hamilton. I don't know anybody from those places that have ever flown out of London. YYZ is the same distance and obviously offers far more options. Presumably people in Windsor generally fly from DTW for overseas and, especially, US flights. Unless YXU were dramatically cheaper than YYZ and therefore able to attract people from farther afield, their real catchment area would be limited to the ~400,000 people in the London area.
 
CXA330300
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Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:49 pm

This is not going to happen as long as YYZ is only two hours' drive away.
Home airport now: JFK
 
shoelessjoe
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:27 pm

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:01 pm

This is typical London boosterism - one of those towns, it is typical in almost every regard but has always over-sold it's wealth, importance and desirability -- I don't mean that as a put-down it's just the reality of the situation, lots of cities/towns are painfully negative and under-sell themselves -- London is merely the opposite. UA has barely been gone for a year, NW was a long-standing tenant with it's DTW service when short-haul trans-border regional flights were economically more viable than they are today. On the plus side London has a relatively stable economy and a strong University in UWO. Much of it's past was tied not only to the Locomotive plant and the Talbotville Ford Assembly plant, but also to the much-lauded "white collar" cluster mostly derived from insurance and banking -- notably Canada Trust and London Life -- both of which have been bought-out/merged into oblivion at which point many of those jobs went up the 401 to Toronto. There is nothing wrong with London, I just suspect it's level of air service is quite appropriate to the size and scale of its economy and demographics. AC runs a healthy schedule and has defended it's territory which likely speaks to the profitability of the station.

YXU is a very different animal than YQG, YHM and YKF -- all 4 are unique cases really, with London being the least like any of the others.

As for the number of carriers, you get to 6 by counting mainline WestJet and Encore separately...not sure about the 7th.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4101
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:50 pm

caribb wrote:
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this but London is one of the wealthiest cities in Canada or at least in amongst a cluster of wealthier cities so it's not totally outlandish to propose flights to Europe from it's airport..I have a feeling they could fill up the front cabin easily enough if there was a seasonal weekly flight to say London England or Dublin Ireland. Throw in a 738MAX, CS100 or CS300 and I'd bet someone could make it work (Air Canada?).

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableau ... 7a-eng.htm


= Yes, because you know, business traffic loves seasonal weekly flights ... after all, all business people go for a whole week to their destination ...

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
caribb
Posts: 1527
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:33 am

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:21 am

abrelosojos wrote:
caribb wrote:
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this but London is one of the wealthiest cities in Canada or at least in amongst a cluster of wealthier cities so it's not totally outlandish to propose flights to Europe from it's airport..I have a feeling they could fill up the front cabin easily enough if there was a seasonal weekly flight to say London England or Dublin Ireland. Throw in a 738MAX, CS100 or CS300 and I'd bet someone could make it work (Air Canada?).

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableau ... 7a-eng.htm


= Yes, because you know, business traffic loves seasonal weekly flights ... after all, all business people go for a whole week to their destination ...

Saludos,
Alex


Who said it would have to be business related?
 
caribb
Posts: 1527
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:33 am

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:21 am

abrelosojos wrote:
caribb wrote:
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this but London is one of the wealthiest cities in Canada or at least in amongst a cluster of wealthier cities so it's not totally outlandish to propose flights to Europe from it's airport..I have a feeling they could fill up the front cabin easily enough if there was a seasonal weekly flight to say London England or Dublin Ireland. Throw in a 738MAX, CS100 or CS300 and I'd bet someone could make it work (Air Canada?).

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableau ... 7a-eng.htm


= Yes, because you know, business traffic loves seasonal weekly flights ... after all, all business people go for a whole week to their destination ...

Saludos,
Alex


Who said it would have to be business traffic related. It would likely be more vacation oriented.o I’m just suggesting that traffic out of that region could fill premium seats better than other places in Canada.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 1450
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Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:58 am

You must be kidding me. London, Ontario. Of all places. With Toronto just up the road.
It's one of the saddest full-of-nothing cities to ever be graced by what they call an international airport. Great example of wishful thinking.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:59 am

oldannyboy wrote:
You must be kidding me. London, Ontario. Of all places. With Toronto just up the road.
It's one of the saddest full-of-nothing cities to ever be graced by what they call an international airport. Great example of wishful thinking.


With HWY 401 being a zoo I'll take a flight from YXU anytime. But being a FF with *G status I don't really need extra flights. Perhaps one extra AC YYZ-YXU flight around 21:30. That gap between 19:45 and 23:30 is annoying.
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Dominion301
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Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:22 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
Canada is quite protective though isn’t it? Can Norwegian Wow or Thomas Cook etc just start services to Canadian airports?


Absolutely. Canada and the EU have full open skies.

That 1.7 million catchment area for YXU is very generous. That's clearly including places like Waterloo Region, Guelph, and even Hamilton. I don't know anybody from those places that have ever flown out of London. YYZ is the same distance and obviously offers far more options. Presumably people in Windsor generally fly from DTW for overseas and, especially, US flights. Unless YXU were dramatically cheaper than YYZ and therefore able to attract people from farther afield, their real catchment area would be limited to the ~400,000 people in the London area.


I'd call YXU's catchment to be at most more like 1 million. YXU pulls from the likes of Sarnia (e.g. I have a friend in Sarnia that's drives the 1 hour to YXU every now and then to catch a YXU-YOW nonstop instead of going YZR-YYZ-YOW - also prefers the Dash to the BEH), St. Thomas, Woodstock, Chatham and maybe a bit from Windsor (e.g. say to catch YXU-YYC nonstop in winter when YQG-YYC isn't operating...but I expect that will end as WS will surely launch 2-3x daily YQG-YYZ Q400 service within the next year or two to make YQG a year-round destination). Few if any from K-W will drive to YXU...maybe to catch the WS nonstop to YWG to avoid YYZ - but YHM's closer and offers the same thing.
 
airbusfanyyz
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:01 am

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:07 pm

Interesting part about the below breakdown is that in the YUL-MCO fare approx. 62% of the $126.85 taxes/fees are US based.


MIflyer12 wrote:
The customs tax/fee play Canada-USA vs. USA-USA (via DTW, but others, too) is overwhelming. It just hammers any possible U.S. routes from YXU or YHM. DTW's advantage in destinations, frequency, and LCC competition inhibits YXU, too.

Taxes (CAD$) YUL-MCO vs. BUF-MCO:

Canadian Goods and Services Tax (XG)
CA$8.76
USDA APHIS Fee (XA)
CA$5.00
US Immigration Fee (XY)
CA$8.80
US Customs Fee (YC)
CA$6.90
Montreal Trudeau Airport Improvement Fee (SQ)
CA$25.00
Quebec Sales Tax (XQ)
CA$2.49
US International Arrival Tax (US)
CA$22.60
Canadian Air Travelers Security Charge (CA)
CA$12.10
US International Departure Tax (US)
CA$22.60
US September 11th Security Fee (AY)
CA$7.00
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF)
CA$5.60

BUF-MCO (also CAD$) per Matrix.

US Transportation Tax (US)
CA$15.20
US September 11th Security Fee (AY)
CA$14.00
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF)
CA$11.20
US Flight Segment Tax (ZP)
CA$10.20
 
Dominion301
Posts: 795
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:29 pm

airbusfanyyz wrote:
Interesting part about the below breakdown is that in the YUL-MCO fare approx. 62% of the $126.85 taxes/fees are US based.


MIflyer12 wrote:
The customs tax/fee play Canada-USA vs. USA-USA (via DTW, but others, too) is overwhelming. It just hammers any possible U.S. routes from YXU or YHM. DTW's advantage in destinations, frequency, and LCC competition inhibits YXU, too.

Taxes (CAD$) YUL-MCO vs. BUF-MCO:

Canadian Goods and Services Tax (XG)
CA$8.76
USDA APHIS Fee (XA)
CA$5.00
US Immigration Fee (XY)
CA$8.80
US Customs Fee (YC)
CA$6.90
Montreal Trudeau Airport Improvement Fee (SQ)
CA$25.00
Quebec Sales Tax (XQ)
CA$2.49
US International Arrival Tax (US)
CA$22.60
Canadian Air Travelers Security Charge (CA)
CA$12.10
US International Departure Tax (US)
CA$22.60
US September 11th Security Fee (AY)
CA$7.00
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF)
CA$5.60

BUF-MCO (also CAD$) per Matrix.

US Transportation Tax (US)
CA$15.20
US September 11th Security Fee (AY)
CA$14.00
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF)
CA$11.20
US Flight Segment Tax (ZP)
CA$10.20


Yes indeed and if you exclude the YUL AIF and the equivalent US PFC, it becomes even more disproportionate.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 4946
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:13 pm

Before anything materialize on their U.S & Europe hopes, they'll get seasonal service to Cayo Coco this winter.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... es-in-w17/
 
STLflyer
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:08 am

Re: London International Airport (YXU) poised for growth, including direct flights to the U.S. and Europe

Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:24 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
A London-London flight...interesting.


That got me wondering, are there any flights between two different cities with the same name? There's probably a really obvious one I'm missing. I was thinking SJC-SJO could be a possibility but no one flies that route.

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