ap305
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Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:47 pm

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... r-to-a350s

A review of the Kuala Lumpur-based discounter’s fleet requirements is underway and could result in a plan to trade up to the bigger wide-body, Tony Fernandes, chief executive officer of the AirAsia group, said in an interview Tuesday, adding that the Boeing Co. 787 Dreamliner will also be considered.


If this happens imho the a330neo is finished.....
 
boefan
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:58 pm

ap305 wrote:
If this happens imho the a330neo is finished.....


People need to understand that the A330neo is the 753/764 of today's time . Very capable frame but launched at a very bad time .

Personal opinion is that it will sell eventually (MRTT) but as a commercial airliner it won't surpass the 300 frame mark (and i may even said a lot) . More than 40% of the recent airline RFPs didn't even bother looking at it and more than 40% of the order book is considering swapping/canceling the order

As for the AirAsia swap it was floating around for more than 2 months now but without a credible source confirming it
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:02 pm

ap305 wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-10/airasia-x-could-swap-entire-66-jet-airbus-a330neo-order-to-a350s

A review of the Kuala Lumpur-based discounter’s fleet requirements is underway and could result in a plan to trade up to the bigger wide-body, Tony Fernandes, chief executive officer of the AirAsia group, said in an interview Tuesday, adding that the Boeing Co. 787 Dreamliner will also be considered.


If this happens imho the a330neo is finished.....


Considering the 787 can't be that serious, it would likely be very expensive to cancel the A330neo to order 787s. Who knows, maybe Boeing would cut a great deal to get Air Asia X to switch. But, I suspect Airbus keeps the order (as A330neo or A350).
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:05 pm

Something doesn't add up, for example:

AirAsia X will remain focused on routes within four to eight hours’ flying time and would deploy the A350s on those services just as it had aimed to do with the A330s, Fernandes said, adding that a switch wouldn’t indicate a revival of plans to serve Europe.


The A350 is a rather expensive plane for a low cost carrier - let alone 66 aircraft - and using it solely on 4 to 8 hours routes doesn't make much sense. Range cannot be an issue because even the current A330-300 does the job pretty fine.
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fcogafa
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:16 pm

Maybe he is looking for an excuse to delay deliveries further, as the A350 wouldn't be available for several more years
 
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flee
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:19 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Something doesn't add up, for example:

AirAsia X will remain focused on routes within four to eight hours’ flying time and would deploy the A350s on those services just as it had aimed to do with the A330s, Fernandes said, adding that a switch wouldn’t indicate a revival of plans to serve Europe.


The A350 is a rather expensive plane for a low cost carrier - let alone 66 aircraft - and using it solely on 4 to 8 hours routes doesn't make much sense. Range cannot be an issue because even the current A330-300 does the job pretty fine.

He mentioned that they are looking to boost capacity.

For this to make sense, the A350-1000 or B787-10 might be the aircraft to achieve the capacity increase and won't be too abused on 4 to 8 hour flights.
Last edited by flee on Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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flee
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:21 pm

fcogafa wrote:
Maybe he is looking for an excuse to delay deliveries further, as the A350 wouldn't be available for several more years

This is not likely as they are currently short on aircraft and are looking to lease about 4-6 used A330s for the near term, pending new aircraft deliveries.
 
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Slug71
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:23 pm

flee wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Something doesn't add up, for example:

AirAsia X will remain focused on routes within four to eight hours’ flying time and would deploy the A350s on those services just as it had aimed to do with the A330s, Fernandes said, adding that a switch wouldn’t indicate a revival of plans to serve Europe.


The A350 is a rather expensive plane for a low cost carrier - let alone 66 aircraft - and using it solely on 4 to 8 hours routes doesn't make much sense. Range cannot be an issue because even the current A330-300 does the job pretty fine.

He mentioned that they are looking to boost capacity.

For this to make sense, the A350-1000 might be the aircraft to achieve the capacity increase and won't be too abused on 4 to 8 hour flights.


And they could take United's slots if that's what they choose.
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:23 pm

flee wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Something doesn't add up, for example:

AirAsia X will remain focused on routes within four to eight hours’ flying time and would deploy the A350s on those services just as it had aimed to do with the A330s, Fernandes said, adding that a switch wouldn’t indicate a revival of plans to serve Europe.


The A350 is a rather expensive plane for a low cost carrier - let alone 66 aircraft - and using it solely on 4 to 8 hours routes doesn't make much sense. Range cannot be an issue because even the current A330-300 does the job pretty fine.

He mentioned that they are looking to boost capacity.

For this to make sense, the A350-1000 might be the aircraft to achieve the capacity increase and won't be too abused on 4 to 8 hour flights.

The A350-1000 wouldn't be any less abused on shorter flights than the A359- remember it is not a straight stretch of the A359. The A350-1000 also currently has the same max pax as the A359 (which Air Asia X would no doubt get close to) too, although that can easily change if Airbus revives the short lived 5th door option.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:30 pm

I remember there being a time when their A350 order was under threat, so this is quite a change in strategy.

I don't see all of the A330neos being cancelled, maybe a few, but I do think they'll take at least most of them. I would agree with fcogafa, converting A330ceos to A330neos was likely a ploy to defer deliveries, and an A350 order would kick the can down the road. While you could never write the 787 off, I think 66 A330s is quite a large order to cancel, so I can't see it happening.
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:34 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Something doesn't add up, for example:

AirAsia X will remain focused on routes within four to eight hours’ flying time and would deploy the A350s on those services just as it had aimed to do with the A330s, Fernandes said, adding that a switch wouldn’t indicate a revival of plans to serve Europe.


The A350 is a rather expensive plane for a low cost carrier - let alone 66 aircraft - and using it solely on 4 to 8 hours routes doesn't make much sense. Range cannot be an issue because even the current A330-300 does the job pretty fine.


Does AirAsia X use cargo lift? I would imagine that maybe some of these might be regional variants with lower MTOW.
 
travelhound
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:08 pm

Could be a financing issue!

Air Asia use a financing model where new aircraft are financed through sale and lease back arrangements.

From my understanding the sale price to the lessor / financing body is greater than the purchase price from the OEM resulting in a cash windfall for every aircraft delivered.

If financiers are not willing / show a reluctance to finance the A330NEO at a price greater than AirAsia's purchase price from the OEM, than the financial / risk management model for ordering new aircraft could become unsustainable.

As such, an A350 / 787 order could become more feasible on the basis of financing arrangements rather than capability / suitability of the aircraft.

It will be interesting to see how this one pans out.
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:20 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
I remember there being a time when their A350 order was under threat, so this is quite a change in strategy.

I don't see all of the A330neos being cancelled, maybe a few, but I do think they'll take at least most of them. I would agree with fcogafa, converting A330ceos to A330neos was likely a ploy to defer deliveries, and an A350 order would kick the can down the road. While you could never write the 787 off, I think 66 A330s is quite a large order to cancel, so I can't see it happening.

They could always convert the A330neo order to even more A320neos and accelerate their A320 fleet replacement.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:25 pm

If this actually happens you can stick a knife even further into this program.
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:28 pm

I am wondering why we have seen so many threads recently with airlines reconsidering widebody orders. I know there was a bubble, but all these rumor threads make it seem like airplane orders are written and signed in chalk.
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:28 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Something doesn't add up, for example:

AirAsia X will remain focused on routes within four to eight hours’ flying time and would deploy the A350s on those services just as it had aimed to do with the A330s, Fernandes said, adding that a switch wouldn’t indicate a revival of plans to serve Europe.


The A350 is a rather expensive plane for a low cost carrier - let alone 66 aircraft - and using it solely on 4 to 8 hours routes doesn't make much sense. Range cannot be an issue because even the current A330-300 does the job pretty fine.


Does AirAsia X use cargo lift? I would imagine that maybe some of these might be regional variants with lower MTOW.


On their Australian flights they haul about 1000 tonnes a month into Australia, on the outbound flights the numbers fluctuate between a third to half of what they haul inbound to Australia
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:42 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
I remember there being a time when their A350 order was under threat, so this is quite a change in strategy.

I don't see all of the A330neos being cancelled, maybe a few, but I do think they'll take at least most of them. I would agree with fcogafa, converting A330ceos to A330neos was likely a ploy to defer deliveries, and an A350 order would kick the can down the road. While you could never write the 787 off, I think 66 A330s is quite a large order to cancel, so I can't see it happening.

They could always convert the A330neo order to even more A320neos and accelerate their A320 fleet replacement.


Possibly, but it would have to be a very large number, and would Airbus let them?
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:58 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
I remember there being a time when their A350 order was under threat, so this is quite a change in strategy.

I don't see all of the A330neos being cancelled, maybe a few, but I do think they'll take at least most of them. I would agree with fcogafa, converting A330ceos to A330neos was likely a ploy to defer deliveries, and an A350 order would kick the can down the road. While you could never write the 787 off, I think 66 A330s is quite a large order to cancel, so I can't see it happening.

They could always convert the A330neo order to even more A320neos and accelerate their A320 fleet replacement.


Possibly, but it would have to be a very large number, and would Airbus let them?


Not to mention that they already have a large order book for A320neo family aircraft, 304 A320neos with only 12 delivered so far plus 100 A321neos
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:19 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Something doesn't add up, for example:

AirAsia X will remain focused on routes within four to eight hours’ flying time and would deploy the A350s on those services just as it had aimed to do with the A330s, Fernandes said, adding that a switch wouldn’t indicate a revival of plans to serve Europe.


The A350 is a rather expensive plane for a low cost carrier - let alone 66 aircraft - and using it solely on 4 to 8 hours routes doesn't make much sense. Range cannot be an issue because even the current A330-300 does the job pretty fine.


Well they can get the "A350 Regional" with the lower certified operating weights and thrusts. Doesn't cover the price issue, but it might be a "future-proofing" move as the A350-900 would give them the flexibility to (re-)launch long-haul routes down the road that the A330-900 cannot perform (as the operating weights and thrusts can be re-certified to full performance).


flee wrote:
He mentioned that they are looking to boost capacity. For this to make sense, the A350-1000 or B787-10 might be the aircraft to achieve the capacity increase and won't be too abused on 4 to 8 hour flights.


The issue there is that all models of the A330, A350 and 787 have Exit Limits at or below the 440 seats of their current A330-900 order. So if they want more capacity in a twin, they have to go with the 777-300ER, 777-8 or 777-9.


travelhound wrote:
Could be a financing issue!


This strikes me as a reasonable reason, though the A330-900 does have over 200 orders from multiple blue-chip customers, so I would think the financing issues would not be as extreme as her little sister (which only has 8 from a single customer).


MrHMSH wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
They could always convert the A330neo order to even more A320neos and accelerate their A320 fleet replacement.

Possibly, but it would have to be a very large number, and would Airbus let them?


Well it's not like Airbus can stop them as Air Asia could just cancel (and eat the penalties). Plus I would expect Airbus would prefer to work with Air Asia on selecting another product rather then play hard-ball and possibly force Air Asia into Boeing's arms for the 787....possibly later followed by the 737MAX and/or MOM.
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:26 pm

flee wrote:

For this to make sense, the A350-1000 or B787-10 might be the aircraft to achieve the capacity increase and won't be too abused on 4 to 8 hour flights.


A350 doesn't add much additional capacity as both aircraft are capped at 440 passengers.
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:41 pm

I didn't read anything into the CEO's comment on the 787 - sounds purely like posturing just to remind Airbus that he isn't fully captive.
I'm thinking they might be getting skittish about sheer size of their order, and their own financial forecasts (pure, 100% speculation on my part).

Renegotiation strategy for fewer/cheaper frames?
66 or even 50 A350 makes little sense, make less a switch to Boeing. seems to me 30 to 40 A330 at near-max pax capacity is the more sensible answer!
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:28 pm

This could be helpful to AA if they are considering the opposite swap.
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:37 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
This could be helpful to AA if they are considering the opposite swap.

Delivery times are not really AA's issue. Air Asia X's A330neos also have something like a 8-9 year delivery schedule, conversion is not going to open up a ton of new near term slots for the Neo (which is hardly booked out for years to begin with).
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:07 pm

None of this makes any sense to me. Unless they're poised to add a whole bunch of ULH destinations (which I can't see how they could make money on, or that they'd do this, but that's not the point), the A350 serves little purpose. It's overkill when the A330 will do the job for significantly less money and comparable economics. And the 787? I just can't see that ever happening. This has to be a leverage of some kind. Maybe they're leveraging concessions to take the airplanes at a lower cost? The A330neo has not sold well, so they'd be taking on a big risk operating a large number of aircraft they'll have a difficult time selling later on. Wanting some sort of deal to take advantage of that would make sense. In any case, this has to be a power play.
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:19 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
difficult time selling later on


Unless a sale and leaseback deal can be arranged upon delivery.
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:30 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
difficult time selling later on


Unless a sale and leaseback deal can be arranged upon delivery.

That's a definite possibility, and that would probably be pretty smart long-term. When the A330neo hasn't sold well, they're well within their right to use whatever leverage they can muster to get a better deal. I agree with some other posters that if they did drop the A330neo, it puts the program in definite jeopardy. It would leave Delta and Iran Air as the only major orders, and given the fragile situation in Iran, AirAsia X dropping the aircraft could prompt Delta to opt for more A350 instead (I think they probably should anyway, but that's a different discussion).

That said, I highly doubt AirAsia would follow through on any threat, and I'm sure Airbus knows this, but AirAsia do have the advantage of owning more than 1/4 of the order book, so they hold a sizable portion of the program's fate in their hands.
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:50 pm

I think airlines that don't need the range capabilities of the A350/787 can be easily persuaded with pricing but Airbus seems reluctant to do that...
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:55 pm

travelhound wrote:
Could be a financing issue!

Air Asia use a financing model where new aircraft are financed through sale and lease back arrangements.


That was my thought exactly, except that I think the key lies in the expected residual value for the A350 vs. the A330neo. If the difference in residual value under the leases is sufficiently great in favor of the A350, the annual cost of the lease could very well end up being lower for the A350. That scenario wouldn't be entirely shocking given the far stronger order book and customer list for the A350, not to mention its higher capacity and technological advances over the A330.

atcsundevil wrote:
AirAsia do have the advantage of owning more than 1/4 of the order book, so they hold a sizable portion of the program's fate in their hands.


Heck, they've got about 40% of orders from airline customers (i.e. not lessors). I suspect they have a ton of leverage and may enjoy more attractive order terms than most.
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:02 am

Polot wrote:
The A350-1000 wouldn't be any less abused on shorter flights than the A359- remember it is not a straight stretch of the A359. The A350-1000 also currently has the same max pax as the A359 (which Air Asia X would no doubt get close to) too, although that can easily change if Airbus revives the short lived 5th door option.

D7 at one point in time (this past year) did consider making the A330-300 a single class product with about 400 seats. It is not practical to have 440 seats for flights longer than 4 hours unless the pax are all children as seat pitch will have to be about 28 or 29 inches. Coupled to the 9 abreast seating, it would literally amount to being cattle class.

The A350-1000/B787-10 will give them more options and still retain their lie flat product (which currently is almost always sold out). 400 (or even 440) seats seats will be more practical.

Having said that, Tony Fernandes is well known for speaking his mind and airing his ideas - he may just be airing this possibility to get "free consultancy" from people in the industry and/or a.net folks! :)
 
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flee
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:17 am

travelhound wrote:
Could be a financing issue!

Air Asia use a financing model where new aircraft are financed through sale and lease back arrangements.

From my understanding the sale price to the lessor / financing body is greater than the purchase price from the OEM resulting in a cash windfall for every aircraft delivered

They use a combination of finance and operating leases - perhaps it is not so attractive to use finance leases on the A330 Neos due to the lower residual values. Operating leases won't be such a problem as they only need to return the aircraft to the lessors at the end of the lease.

The airline business is a complex one and we won't know what the real motivation is for this change of mind. With some airlines postponing deliveries of their A350s, there might be some delivery slots available in 2018. I do suspect that the delay in A330 Neo deliveries at a time when D7 is in need of more aircraft may have forced them to seriously look at alternatives.
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:39 am

They already have A350-900's on order so it seems logical that they might convert some or all of the neos to the A359. I don't see the 787 ending up in their fleet.
-Dave
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:56 am

I would say don't read too much into the news. AirAsia Group is operating in hyperactive environment, more so in LCC market in Asia Pacific. Their plans changed every now and then. Previously they converted remaining A330ceo order to A330neo to reduce capacity increment and capex during the time when D7 were registering loss quarters to quarters. Now that the market is in upswing again, they are looking for more aircraft but this doesn't come overnight, therefore they can either take used aircraft and spend money on re-config or wait for A330neo to arrive in late 2018. For now, they are cutting Australia capacity and swift it to North Asia. If I am not mistaken the additional Australia capacity was added Q1 this year. If they need urgent capacity increment, they would have taken the three ex-UL ntu A359, but they didn't. They might have negotiated with AerCap, but found that the lease might not been favourable. Who knows tbh.

It is worth noting though AirAsia Group has a high debt gearing, tuning to few billion, despite being profitable for many years. And also their massive aircraft order (304 A320neos and 100 A321neos) are not solely for their Group, many will be going to their leasing arm Asia Aviation Capital Pte Ltd, which is scheduled to be sold end of this year if a deal is successfully concluded. The sale will help to pare down the high debt ratio.

http://www.thestar.com.my/business/busi ... an-market/
http://www.thestar.com.my/business/busi ... this-year/
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:05 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
They already have A350-900's on order so it seems logical that they might convert some or all of the neos to the A359. I don't see the 787 ending up in their fleet.

Yes, AirAsia Group is all-Airbus, or should I say Airbus #1 customer, alongside with IndiGo. The 787 was thrown in to squeeze some discount from Airbus maybe, but they don't need to do so tbh. Remember they expressed interest in C-series previously (Nov 2012 and recently Aug 2017)? Nothing came out to fruition. I would be happily proven wrong if they do place an order to CS100/300.
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:24 am

juliuswong wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
They already have A350-900's on order so it seems logical that they might convert some or all of the neos to the A359. I don't see the 787 ending up in their fleet.

Yes, AirAsia Group is all-Airbus, or should I say Airbus #1 customer, alongside with IndiGo. The 787 was thrown in to squeeze some discount from Airbus maybe, but they don't need to do so tbh. Remember they expressed interest in C-series previously (Nov 2012 and recently Aug 2017)? Nothing came out to fruition. I would be happily proven wrong if they do place an order to CS100/300.
t

I smell dirty politics here..ala Najib Razak! During his White House visit and the 787 order for MH, he said he will try to get AirAsia to order GE engines!

https://www.nst.com.my/business/2017/09 ... aft-boeing
 
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:39 am

scotron11 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
They already have A350-900's on order so it seems logical that they might convert some or all of the neos to the A359. I don't see the 787 ending up in their fleet.

Yes, AirAsia Group is all-Airbus, or should I say Airbus #1 customer, alongside with IndiGo. The 787 was thrown in to squeeze some discount from Airbus maybe, but they don't need to do so tbh. Remember they expressed interest in C-series previously (Nov 2012 and recently Aug 2017)? Nothing came out to fruition. I would be happily proven wrong if they do place an order to CS100/300.
t

I smell dirty politics here..ala Najib Razak! During his White House visit and the 787 order for MH, he said he will try to get AirAsia to order GE engines!

https://www.nst.com.my/business/2017/09 ... aft-boeing

The problem is AirAsia IS using CFM engines for their A320ceo and A320neo fleet. They even have a A320ceo painted in GE special livery. Politicians, arggh!!
 
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william
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:39 am

Does the A350 have a high cycle domestic variant?
 
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Stitch
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:40 am

william wrote:
Does the A350 have a high cycle domestic variant?


No, but you can order it with lower operating rates and thrust levels for shorter-range missions.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:44 am

This would really put a big question mark behind the A330NEO.
 
behramjee
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:36 am

If D7 only has future expansion plans focused on the Austral-Asia region then it does not need the A359 at all.

If D7 wants to make a bit of money on sale-leaseback + lease out its A359s to fellow D7 franchises like Air Asia Thailand who want to launch DMK-EU nonstop then it needs the A359 as the high density A339NEO cannot operate with a full payload out of Bangkok to Europe.

D7's CEO is an astute man who has a very good relationship with Airbus so if he is really hell bent on the A359, in order for him not to pay a dime extra than what he already has negotiated for 66 A330NEOs, he might get a deal for the same value but instead of 66 A330NEOs it will be for 53 A359s.

However from a "commercial perspective", D7 should just stick to the regional WB network plan for which the A339Neo is a better aircraft overall versus the A359. Currently, D7 operates 22 A333s and to be frank it does not require 66 (3 times more than today) even if it chooses to lease out few to other franchises. I would suggest the following:

a) Long term WB fleet plan (till 2025 at least) should be limited to 40 aircraft only covering all the franchise outlets
b) The 26 left over A330NEOs should be exchanged for 52 A321NEOs

Note that once fuel hits more than $65 per barrel, D7's long haul flights become very fragile financially.
 
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flee
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:09 am

juliuswong wrote:
It is worth noting though AirAsia Group has a high debt gearing

According to the Bursa Malaysia (stock exchange) filing for the period ended June 2017, their net gearing ratio is 1.35X - so it is not excessive.
 
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flee
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:17 am

behramjee wrote:
a) Long term WB fleet plan (till 2025 at least) should be limited to 40 aircraft only covering all the franchise outlets

This is the previous fleet plan (Feb 2017) for D7 - you will see that the A350 does not figure in it because at that time, its all about the A330Neo. But the 9+ month delay has caused a lot of rethinking!


Image201702 D7 Fleet Plan by f lee, on Flickr
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:49 am

If they do swap the A330's for the A350's, would they go 10 abreast on the A350's given they currently squeeze 9 abreast on their A330's?
319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
 
Egerton
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:49 am

Perhaps I have missed the hard evidence to support the assertion to swap A330 for A350? Would it make more sense if they were thinking about swapping A330neo for A330ceo, which have a lower capital cost and are well understood by the leasing fraternity?
 
parapente
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:13 am

As Karel and others have said the 'news' makes absolutely no sense at all.Not price,not capacity (X9 on the 330), Not range nor efficiency (X9 plus wing and engine improvements).The 350 is for exactly the opposite reasons exactly the wrong aircraft!
Although the Bloomberg headline mentions it I note it did not come up in the interview.Although I did notice (once again) how excited this ( -as others) exec' are about the capabilities of the A321NEO LR.But that's a different story.
 
JammyBritton27
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:18 pm

How are they gonna finance this?
 
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william
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:19 pm

Makes no sense, one does not use a 777 on high cycle domestic routes because the airframe would cycle out quickly. The same can be said for the A350, its design to be a long distance runner not a short distance sprinter.
 
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Polot
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:36 pm

william wrote:
Makes no sense, one does not use a 777 on high cycle domestic routes because the airframe would cycle out quickly. The same can be said for the A350, its design to be a long distance runner not a short distance sprinter.

The 777 has a higher default flight cycle limit with the FAA than the A330 (not sure what the A350's and 787's are). Remember the 772A.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:44 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
I am wondering why we have seen so many threads recently with airlines reconsidering widebody orders. I know there was a bubble, but all these rumor threads make it seem like airplane orders are written and signed in chalk.


The aviation industry changes rapidly and unfortunately, development of new airplane types takes a long time. Launched in 2014 and entry into service 2018, a lot can change during those 4 years.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
NZ321
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:52 pm

I don't rate Air Asia's chances of being a major player long haul with 9 abreast A330. It's hell in Y class and I think they know it. Far worse than their A320. They have to compete in this segment. So the A350 could be a sign that they are getting real to the market and competition. Air Asia boss is not stupid. I don't believe for a moment that the 330 neo is dead. Not by a long margin.
 
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Polot
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Re: Air Asia may swap entire a330neo order to a350

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:55 pm

NZ321 wrote:
I don't rate Air Asia's chances of being a major player long haul with 9 abreast A330. It's hell in Y class and I think they know it. Far worse than their A320. They have to compete in this segment. So the A350 could be a sign that they are getting real to the market and competition. Air Asia boss is not stupid. I don't believe for a moment that the 330 neo is dead. Not by a long margin.

You are assuming of course Air Asia X is interested in 9Y in the A350. Air Asia boss may not be stupid, but he has also already expressed interest in putting 10Y in A350s.

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