These aircraft aren't really all that old, with the first ones delivered in 2003 but what does LX intend to do with them alongside the A333 and B773 fleets into the future?

2 out of the 7 remaining ones will join Edelweiss next year, the other 5 are getting a new cabin (including Wi-Fi) and will stay with Swiss for another couple of years.

Keep using them on the longer haul routes in the network. These are the newer 275 ton planes with the 5C4 engines, there's nothing wrong with them.

LH707330 wrote:

These are the newer 275 ton planes with the 5C4 engines, there's nothing wrong with them.

Would it be a reasonable assumption that some time in the 2020s (mid-2020s or later) LX would want to consider replacing these remaining A343s and A333s with the same type of aircraft?

EddieDude wrote:

LH707330 wrote:

These are the newer 275 ton planes with the 5C4 engines, there's nothing wrong with them.

Would it be a reasonable assumption that some time in the 2020s (mid-2020s or later) LX would want to consider replacing these remaining A343s and A333s with the same type of aircraft?

Can a 343 even be built nowadays? 333's perhaps, especially the neo. Then again they have 773's in the fleet as well. I'd look to LH and see where they see their subsidiaries are headed in the next decade. There will be s number of choices available by then.

Do we think LX will order more A330's? That plane seems to serve the markets it flies on really well. The oldest is 7 years old.

LH707330 wrote:

Keep u hising them on the longer haul routes in the network. These are the newer 275 ton planes with the 5C4 engines, there's nothing wrong with them.

The issue is the added weight adds costs. LX is maintaining four engines instead of 2.

But the big Bill due at the end of the first heavy maintenance cycle has been paid. This isn't the A349-500/-600 where every airline that could borrow for a new type avoided the overhaul costs as there would have been a negative ROI. But don't expect many A340s going forward to enter the next heavy maintenance cycle.

At about 20 years, when the next large bill is due for the 3rd heavy C, expect these A343s to be scrapped. So they have life.

What will LX buy for that future replacement? For an order to be placed in say 5 years, it will be an existing type. 787, A359, or even A339. LX has the luxury of tune. . I wouldn't be surprised to see an early retirement at say 17 or 18 year old planes to avoid the 2nd heavy C of the maintenance cycle. But with the seat replacement, that isn't likely for 2021/2022 replacement...

Lightsaber

Perhaps the A340s will be dedicated to hot and high airports, like JNB, where their performance is strongest?

Cheers,

C.

EddieDude wrote:

LH707330 wrote:

These are the newer 275 ton planes with the 5C4 engines, there's nothing wrong with them.

Would it be a reasonable assumption that some time in the 2020s (mid-2020s or later) LX would want to consider replacing these remaining A343s and A333s with the same type of aircraft?

I could see that, maybe 789s or 339s.

lightsaber wrote:

LH707330 wrote:

Keep u hising them on the longer haul routes in the network. These are the newer 275 ton planes with the 5C4 engines, there's nothing wrong with them.

The issue is the added weight adds costs. LX is maintaining four engines instead of 2.

But the big Bill due at the end of the first heavy maintenance cycle has been paid. This isn't the A349-500/-600 where every airline that could borrow for a new type avoided the overhaul costs as there would have been a negative ROI. But don't expect many A340s going forward to enter the next heavy maintenance cycle.

At about 20 years, when the next large bill is due for the 3rd heavy C, expect these A343s to be scrapped. So they have life.

What will LX buy for that future replacement? For an order to be placed in say 5 years, it will be an existing type. 787, A359, or even A339. LX has the luxury of tune. . I wouldn't be surprised to see an early retirement at say 17 or 18 year old planes to avoid the 2nd heavy C of the maintenance cycle. But with the seat replacement, that isn't likely for 2021/2022 replacement...

Lightsaber

What's the OEW delta from a 333 to a 343, 2-4 tons or something like that? That's 1-2%. Seems like a small penalty to pay for 22 tons of MTOW. I think the real issue with the 343's higher burn over the 333 is the fact that the engines are half a generation older, which is worth 5ish %, leading to a total of 7ish percent worse burn on the same trip. Regarding the engine costs, I don't think the hairdryers are actually that bad, but you may have better data there.

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Can a 343 even be built nowadays? 333's perhaps, especially the neo. Then again they have 773's in the fleet as well. I'd look to LH and see where they see their subsidiaries are headed in the next decade. There will be s number of choices available by then.

Apologies for what was a poorly written question. I meant both A343s and A333s replaced by one single type of aircraft.

I was told by a LX f/a that the A340s are soldiering on as they are very reliable and capable birds (they are late build models), and that long-term LX management is looking to simplify the fleet down to the obvious two types: the A333 and the 773. No mention yet of what might follow this, but the addition of the A330neo is very likely given the commonality with the current fleet.

EddieDude wrote:

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Can a 343 even be built nowadays? 333's perhaps, especially the neo. Then again they have 773's in the fleet as well. I'd look to LH and see where they see their subsidiaries are headed in the next decade. There will be s number of choices available by then.

Apologies for what was a poorly written question. I meant both A343s and A333s replaced by one single type of aircraft.

It's all good!

We are also seeing A340s flying at a lot of the European low cost subsidiary carriers. Seems they are moving their aging expensive to operate 4 holers to places where they have lower operating costs. Swiss is no different with their plan to transfer some to Edelweiss Air.

pitbosflyer wrote:

We are also seeing A340s flying at a lot of the European low cost subsidiary carriers. Seems they are moving their aging expensive to operate 4 holers to places where they have lower operating costs. Swiss is no different with their plan to transfer some to Edelweiss Air.

They aren't expensive to fly. That again is a.net fallacy.

The A343 compares quite well against a 772ER when used over longer stretches. The mood music around here is that you need a tanker following an A340, whereas if you also factor in lower capital costs for those second tier operators the plane comes in quite handily. Maintenance can be a problem with four engines but fuel burn isn't bad. The A340 is a long distance aircraft and that's where it does OK.

LX 343's are currently dispatched to PVG, PEK, NRT, JNB, GRU and BOS. Almost all of those flights are rather long with 10.5+ hrs flighttime. GRU will be replaced on some days by the 77W and aircraft swaps result in other destinations as well (India, USA, etc.), but in general above mentioned destination mix is ideal for the operation of the 343.