Delta MD88/90 Retirements

SCHATC422 · Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:08 pm

I've noticed Delta has already starting parking/retiring MD88's and MD90's. I've noticed that at least 3 or 4 MD88's, and definitely 3 MD90's have been parked. Any reason for parking 3 MD90's?

Anyone know any tail numbers on any of the aircraft and why especially the MD90's mainly? We all know the MD88's are supposed to be retired by 2020 according to Delta and they're overdue, but when will most of them take place when I refer to ONLY MD88 retirements?

-MB

ty97 · Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:18 pm

It's the slow (shoulder) season for travel. These parkings could be temporary as DL needs less planes to run their ops in September/October versus the higher travel seasons.

AA737-823 · Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:51 pm

There is an existing thread on this topic, particularly the MD-90's.
I think the gist of it was that Delta is having a hard time getting MD-90 engine overhauls performed by the vendor (who prefers to overhaul the much more numerous Airbus variant of the V2500) in a timely manner. So, some are going to sit while they wait for engines to be rebuilt.

atcsundevil · Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:03 pm

SCHATC422 wrote:
I've noticed Delta has already starting parking/retiring MD88's and MD90's. I've noticed that at least 3 or 4 MD88's, and definitely 3 MD90's have been parked. Any reason for parking 3 MD90's?

Anyone know any tail numbers on any of the aircraft and why especially the MD90's mainly? We all know the MD88's are supposed to be retired by 2020 according to Delta and they're overdue, but when will most of them take place when I refer to ONLY MD88 retirements?

-MB

There is an existing topic on the MD90, but you're asking about both, so I don't know that we have a recent topic that covers both retirements.

I believe the issue with the MD90s are due to the IAE engines. Apparently only one shop still maintains them. Parts in general for the 80 and 90 are becoming harder to find. Many indications seem to point to both the MD88/MD90 leaving Delta's fleet within the coming years. I think it remains to be seen now a possible tariff on the incoming CSeries could impact these retirements, but it's looking increasingly like the Mad Dogs' days are numbered with Delta.

That said — the DC9 retirements were dragged out for roughly two centuries, so who knows. In five years, I would anticipate only the B712 remaining from the Mad Dog derivatives.

CarlosSi · Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:34 pm

Would it make any (economic) sense to cut the fleet size of MD90s in half to keep them for longer by using the grounded fleet for parts? Has Delta taken any MD90s from other operators for parts as well?

lightsaber · Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:55 pm

ty97 wrote:
It's the slow (shoulder) season for travel. These parkings could be temporary as DL needs less planes to run their ops in September/October versus the higher travel seasons.

DL recently cancelled the registration for a few MD-88/90s (count down on airfleets.net, I haven't seen which type). Those won't come back. This is a slow reduction in the fleet.

The reality is the economies of scale are gone for both fleet types.

Only DL, AA, and G4 operate enough to keep the parts coming. With all three retiring planes for parts and all three stopped buying new parts 3 years ago, the vendor network is in shambles.

Please recall the variable costs of these planes are higher than for an A320 or 738. So only in high yeild low utilization service do they continue. But now there are enough A320s and 738s whose fixed costs are paid off (or just low enough) to take over the duty.

Lightsaber

oldannyboy · Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:50 pm

....well last I heard was they were sourcing a fleet of not-so-old DC-9-51s to replace both MD-90s and early-build A320s.... :-o

)

DeltaMD95 · Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:19 am

Is the MD90 retirement also slated for 2020 now? Will they be retired in tandem with the MD88s as overhauls are due, potentially fully parked before the MD88?

777Mech · Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:41 am

DeltaMD95 wrote:
Is the MD90 retirement also slated for 2020 now? Will they be retired in tandem with the MD88s as overhauls are due, potentially fully parked before the MD88?

A couple of MD90s have and will be parked for future reactivation around the 2020 timeframe, so imagine the 90s will stick around until at least 2023ish.

lightsaber · Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:22 pm

DeltaMD95 wrote:
Is the MD90 retirement also slated for 2020 now? Will they be retired in tandem with the MD88s as overhauls are due, potentially fully parked before the MD88?

There are issues with short term V2500D5 parts. The vendors have no incentive to make parts on speculation. So when engines became short, DL parked an airframe. To my knowledge, only one MD-90 was parked and it seems, per this link, that it could be re-registered.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-438827/
DL had 181 MD80/90s registered at the peak. Now it is 175:
http://www.airfleets.net/exploit/production-md80.htm

Yes, airfleets is a lagging source of information. But that is OK, it is free.

Mostly, we're seeing MD-80 retirements.

Lightsaber

727LOVER · Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:51 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Only DL, AA, and G4 operate enough to keep the parts coming.

I'm curious, who are the 4th and 5th largest operators?

Polot · Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:01 pm

727LOVER wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Only DL, AA, and G4 operate enough to keep the parts coming.

I'm curious, who are the 4th and 5th largest operators?

4th largest is technically Laser Airlines with ~12. But they are a Venezuelan airline so your guess is as good as mine in regards to how many of those are actually active. But highlights how MD-80s operators fall off a cliff after G4.

tjerome · Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:54 pm

Retired, Inactive, and Upcoming MD88 and 90 Retirements

Retired M88s:
901 - withdrawn in 2007 and scrapped
902 - scrapped
903 - withdrawn in 2008 and scrapped
909 - written off after incident at LGA
925 - retired 9/15/17 @ BYH
928 - retired 8/28/17 @ BYH
9014 - retired 9/2/17 @ BYH

Upcoming M88 retirements:
920 - 2017
922 - 2017
929 - 2017
930 - 2017
940 - 2017

Retired/Inactive M90s:
9202 - temporary storage since 6/22/17 @ BYH, unknown when will return
9203 - temporary storage since 9/2/17 @ BYH, unknown when will return
9258 - retired (?) 10/1/17 @ MZJ

Upcoming M90 movements:
9232 - expected to be retired in December

M90s with no recent flights:
9208 - last activity shown was a cancelled flight out of ATL on 9/11/17
9230 - last activity was arriving at ATL 9/15/17

777Mech · Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:21 pm

tjerome wrote:
Retired, Inactive, and Upcoming MD88 and 90 Retirements

Retired M88s:
901 - withdrawn in 2007 and scrapped
902 - scrapped
903 - withdrawn in 2008 and scrapped
909 - written off after incident at LGA
925 - retired 9/15/17 @ BYH
928 - retired 8/28/17 @ BYH
9014 - retired 9/2/17 @ BYH

Upcoming M88 retirements:
920 - 2017
922 - 2017
929 - 2017
930 - 2017
940 - 2017

Retired/Inactive M90s:
9202 - temporary storage since 6/22/17 @ BYH, unknown when will return
9203 - temporary storage since 9/2/17 @ BYH, unknown when will return
9258 - retired (?) 10/1/17 @ MZJ

Upcoming M90 movements:
9232 - expected to be retired in December

M90s with no recent flights:
9208 - last activity shown was a cancelled flight out of ATL on 9/11/17
9230 - last activity was arriving at ATL 9/15/17

9208 and 9230 are parked at the TOC awaiting space in the City South hangar for their heavy checks to get done.

WA707atMSP · Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:37 am

At the risk of going OT, have there been any A320 retirements this year? Are any more A320s due to leave the fleet soon?

777Mech · Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:02 am

WA707atMSP wrote:
At the risk of going OT, have there been any A320 retirements this year? Are any more A320s due to leave the fleet soon?

3 to be exact, 3210 in Nov and 3213 and 14 in December.

CX747 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:57 am

In another thread here it is being discussed that Bombardier is looking for a buyer for the Aerospace portion of it's business. How Delta handles the possible shut down of CSeries production would be interesting.

wjcandee · Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:45 am

CX747 wrote:
In another thread here it is being discussed that Bombardier is looking for a buyer for the Aerospace portion of it's business. How Delta handles the possible shut down of CSeries production would be interesting.

Yeah, but nobody at Bombardier is talking about shutting down C-series.

The point is to sell off the Q400 and CRJ business in order to raise cash to pursue the C-series, which is a great, modern aircraft that will do well when the market cycles, if Bombardier can live long enough. It's going to be at least 3 months until the actual effect of the ruinous Boeing strategy will be determined.

I really hope the UK and Canada just pull the plug on all things Boeing, to get them to back off their complaint. Hitting Boeing in the pocketbook is the way to get a change of behavior. At this point, there are no consequences to Boeing's actions. Threats are one thing, actually doing something (which politicians often are bad at) will have an effect.

pezzy669 · Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:40 pm

It's going to be sad and boring sight of Terminal B at ATL once the MD-88 and MD-90 are gone. This is one of my favorite aircraft to fly and fortunately majority of my trips out of ATL give me the opportunity of the MD-88 or MD-90, still have not been on one of the 717-200 yet. Of 26 segments out of ATL this year 10 of those have been on MD-88 or MD-90 so no shortage of opportunity to get seat time on my end. The buzzsaw on takeoff in the MD-88 is music to my ears, MD-90 it is not quite as audible if you are further forward in the cabin.

MD-88 Takeoff
https://youtu.be/62HpcRGy_BU?t=9m33s

MD-90 Takeoff
https://youtu.be/nk6Sm-JmtKg?t=15m23s

WA707atMSP · Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:57 am

777Mech wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:
At the risk of going OT, have there been any A320 retirements this year? Are any more A320s due to leave the fleet soon?

3 to be exact, 3210 in Nov and 3213 and 14 in December.

Thanks for the update. How many more are likely to leave the fleet in 2018?

bgm · Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:42 pm

pezzy669 wrote:
It's going to be sad and boring sight of Terminal B at ATL once the MD-88 and MD-90 are gone. This is one of my favorite aircraft to fly and fortunately majority of my trips out of ATL give me the opportunity of the MD-88 or MD-90, still have not been on one of the 717-200 yet. Of 26 segments out of ATL this year 10 of those have been on MD-88 or MD-90 so no shortage of opportunity to get seat time on my end. The buzzsaw on takeoff in the MD-88 is music to my ears, MD-90 it is not quite as audible if you are further forward in the cabin.

MD-88 Takeoff
https://youtu.be/62HpcRGy_BU?t=9m33s

MD-90 Takeoff
https://youtu.be/nk6Sm-JmtKg?t=15m23s

If you're missing your MD90 fix, just fly any A32X with IAE engines, they use a very similar variant of the V2500.

The MD88 sounds good, but the DC9 sounded way better.

777Mech · Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:13 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
777Mech wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:
At the risk of going OT, have there been any A320 retirements this year? Are any more A320s due to leave the fleet soon?

3 to be exact, 3210 in Nov and 3213 and 14 in December.

Thanks for the update. How many more are likely to leave the fleet in 2018?

After this batch I believe they don't have anymore scheduled.

The main focus is the -88s in the foreseeable future and that is contingent on the Cseries making it through EIS on time.

pezzy669 · Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:56 am

tjerome wrote:
Retired, Inactive, and Upcoming MD88 and 90 Retirements

Upcoming M88 retirements:
920 - 2017
922 - 2017
929 - 2017
930 - 2017
940 - 2017

Flew out of ATL today - 930 is sitting outside Tech Ops with both engines removed.

lightsaber · Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:37 am

pezzy669 wrote:
tjerome wrote:
Retired, Inactive, and Upcoming MD88 and 90 Retirements

Upcoming M88 retirements:
920 - 2017
922 - 2017
929 - 2017
930 - 2017
940 - 2017

Flew out of ATL today - 930 is sitting outside Tech Ops with both engines removed.

I'm not surprised, engine parts are getting scarce. I bet the engines fly again soon. AA extending their MD-80 life has reduced the expected surplus parts for DL and G4. While DL is in good shape for parts, some engine parts are precious already. And certain airframe parts.

Lightsaber

777Mech · Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:39 am

pezzy669 wrote:
tjerome wrote:
Retired, Inactive, and Upcoming MD88 and 90 Retirements

Upcoming M88 retirements:
920 - 2017
922 - 2017
929 - 2017
930 - 2017
940 - 2017

Flew out of ATL today - 930 is sitting outside Tech Ops with both engines removed.

Ship 930 isn't supposed to retire for another few months.

You must've seen 9230 which is an MD90 that is awaiting its C-check.

It's sister ship 9208 is parked with it.

pezzy669 · Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:40 am

777Mech wrote:
pezzy669 wrote:
tjerome wrote:
Retired, Inactive, and Upcoming MD88 and 90 Retirements

Upcoming M88 retirements:
920 - 2017
922 - 2017
929 - 2017
930 - 2017
940 - 2017

Flew out of ATL today - 930 is sitting outside Tech Ops with both engines removed.

Ship 930 isn't supposed to retire for another few months.

You must've seen 9230 which is an MD90 that is awaiting its C-check.

It's sister ship 9208 is parked with it.

I must have missed the 2 in the reg, yeah you are most likely right on this as 930 is still running around per flight aware.

777Mech · Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:01 am

pezzy669 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
pezzy669 wrote:

Flew out of ATL today - 930 is sitting outside Tech Ops with both engines removed.

Ship 930 isn't supposed to retire for another few months.

You must've seen 9230 which is an MD90 that is awaiting its C-check.

It's sister ship 9208 is parked with it.

I must have missed the 2 in the reg, yeah you are most likely right on this as 930 is still running around per flight aware.

The 2 won't be in the reg, generally the MD-90s will have a DA or DN after the numbers, while the -88s will have a DL or DE.

Northwest1988 · Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:07 pm

One is flying to BYH this morning.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KATL/KBYH

Anyone know which tail number this is?

777Mech · Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:40 pm

Northwest1988 wrote:
One is flying to BYH this morning.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KATL/KBYH

Anyone know which tail number this is?

That one would be ship 920.

N292UX · Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:16 pm

MD-90s still have some time left in the tank. It's likely that 1 or 2 of the MD90 retirements were temporary. Or for spares.

RobertS975 · Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:00 pm

Northwest1988 wrote:
One is flying to BYH this morning.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KATL/KBYH

Anyone know which tail number this is?

Pardon my ignorance, but what happens at Blytheville, AR? Chopped up?

DL_Mech · Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:06 pm

RobertS975 wrote:

Pardon my ignorance, but what happens at Blytheville, AR? Chopped up?

http://artmaintenance.com/storage-disassembly/

n471wn · Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:56 pm

N292UX wrote:
MD-90s still have some time left in the tank. It's likely that 1 or 2 of the MD90 retirements were temporary. Or for spares.

Big difference to we a.netters--which is it?

777Mech · Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:51 am

Another MD-88, ship 940, is ferrying to BYH today for partout and scrap

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9933

Northwest1988 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:22 pm

Can anyone find any pics of these planes in BYH? I’m interested to see them all lining up!

xdlx · Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:50 pm

ty97 wrote:
It's the slow (shoulder) season for travel. These parkings could be temporary as DL needs less planes to run their ops in September/October versus the higher travel seasons.

Delta flies the schedule at 91% LF they need all the frames they have!

lightsaber · Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:53 pm

xdlx wrote:
ty97 wrote:
It's the slow (shoulder) season for travel. These parkings could be temporary as DL needs less planes to run their ops in September/October versus the higher travel seasons.

Delta flies the schedule at 91% LF they need all the frames they have!

Even with a high load factor, DL needs to slowly retire the MD-80s as the parts are becoming dear. Due to the higher costs, even with the load factor, many runs will make far more money with new aircraft (ERJ-170s, 738s, A321s, and later the C-series).

It costs too much to retrain pilots, maintain old planes, and fuel them at this point. There needs to be an ROI. DL walked away from service contracts, so there is no surprise that parts are becoming dear.

But at the same time, there are deals on new and used airframes. It is a question of what DL buys, not if there are good deals out there.

Lightsaber

SELMER40 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:58 pm

Google map: KBYH

Aloha717200 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:17 pm

SELMER40 wrote:
Google map: KBYH

Those poor airplanes. God that's sad to see....

compensateme · Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:21 pm

I'm baffled that a.net's stunned DL's retiring the MD-88 and MD-90. A few years ago, did DL intend on flying these aircraft long-term? Yes. But then they subsequently ordered 200+ CS100, B739 and A321 -- and most of these planes will be on property within the next 3-4 years. They're done retiring other types, for now (sans a few remaining A320 that are being swapped for some B757 previously slated for retirement, and a pair of B763A models that have been pulled from regular operation anyway). As it is, DL's going to have a hard time digesting all that new capacity WITH the MD-88 & MD-90 retirements. That people think DL would somehow keep the MD jets is puzzling. The only thing I can think of is are MD cheerleaders who've advocated for years that the MD88/MD90 would live on indefinitely...

Aloha717200 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:23 pm

Or...or...people are just sad to see another type leave.

Efficiency and prudence and future planning are the life and death of airlines. But if you love aircraft...there's something sad about seeing them sent to be chopped up.

gsg013 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:50 pm

For me when I first started flying the MD-80 series on delta I thought the were fantastic as I was used to getting Regional Jets. However now that I have been on many DL 737-900ER A319/A320/A321 the new planes are much more comfortable to fly on and certainly more fuel efficient in comparison to Mad Dogs. I still do like having about half the 717's on the shuttle service between LGA-BOS. That is a nice touch to get a mainline jet and not a RJ.

I am excited to get on the new C-Series once it arrives. I know it will be put on routes out of LGA first and that is great for me. I am hoping they add routes from BNA with the C series as this is a rapidly growing city down here with tons of demand for premium air travel. The C-Series will offer a great alternative for DL for routes currently to big for RJ and too small for large inefficient mainline planes.

Northwest1988 · Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:28 pm

Flew out from ATL on Sunday and saw this bird sitting in front of tech ops. It’s missing it’s engines. I believe it’s an MD-90. Any idea on what particular plane this is?

http://flightaware.com/photos/view/7080 ... ate/page/1

777Mech · Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:45 pm

Northwest1988 wrote:
Flew out from ATL on Sunday and saw this bird sitting in front of tech ops. It’s missing it’s engines. I believe it’s an MD-90. Any idea on what particular plane this is?

http://flightaware.com/photos/view/7080 ... ate/page/1

That one would be MD-90 ship 9230, it's awaiting space for it's C-check.

Northwest1988 · Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:50 pm

777Mech wrote:
Northwest1988 wrote:
Flew out from ATL on Sunday and saw this bird sitting in front of tech ops. It’s missing it’s engines. I believe it’s an MD-90. Any idea on what particular plane this is?

http://flightaware.com/photos/view/7080 ... ate/page/1

That one would be MD-90 ship 9230, it's awaiting space for it's C-check.

Good! Not done yet :bouncy:

Blimpie · Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:00 pm

I am ambivalent on the retirements. Part of me hates to see them go since they are lost in a sea of modern Boeings and Airbuses, but then again the only time I have ever flown one was a decade back on SAS, and I was seated in the last row, right smack next to the nacelle and it was a miserable two hour flight to and from Dublin.

seabosdca · Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:07 pm

Spare part availability is going to force the issue for the M90, both in the short term (when an occasional frame will have to be retired to keep the rest flying) and in the long term. I expect that the next narrowbody order rumored for announcement Any Time Now will account for replacement of all of the remaining MDs by 2025 or so.

lightsaber · Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:15 am

seabosdca wrote:
Spare part availability is going to force the issue for the M90, both in the short term (when an occasional frame will have to be retired to keep the rest flying) and in the long term. I expect that the next narrowbody order rumored for announcement Any Time Now will account for replacement of all of the remaining MDs by 2025 or so.

Sad, but true. With DL the only operator, it is incumbent on them to estimate parts needed. No longer does a supplier know more than the operator...

I'd love to know what parts are in short supply. Most of the dear parts for the MD-80 are not the same on the MD-90... I'm aware in general certain parts are rare on the MD-90. On the MD-80, I could itemize the list.

Lightsaber

777Mech · Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:32 am

lightsaber wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
Spare part availability is going to force the issue for the M90, both in the short term (when an occasional frame will have to be retired to keep the rest flying) and in the long term. I expect that the next narrowbody order rumored for announcement Any Time Now will account for replacement of all of the remaining MDs by 2025 or so.

Sad, but true. With DL the only operator, it is incumbent on them to estimate parts needed. No longer does a supplier know more than the operator...

I'd love to know what parts are in short supply. Most of the dear parts for the MD-80 are not the same on the MD-90... I'm aware in general certain parts are rare on the MD-90. On the MD-80, I could itemize the list.

I think a majority of the problem is the landing gear. The ones
they bought off the China frames were too worn out to be made serviceable. The same can,be said for the engines.

I know they bought a bunch of MD-11s for spares awhile back, although I'm not exactly sure how those parts apply to the MD-90s.

[/quote]

Goodyear · Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:47 am

There is some parts commonality with the scud, mostly in the cockpit components. Delta primarily bought the used ones for engines for the 767 fleet.

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