All VX flights now AS flights starting 25APR18

EA CO AS · Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:44 am

Consistent with transitioning to a single Passenger Service System, all soon-to-be former VX flights are now listed as AS flights starting April 25, 2018. The flights are all shown as 1000 series flight numbers,making it easier to determine which flights are operated by Boeing aircraft and which are Airbus.

At least for now, anyway; it's possible the combined operations and inventories could be re-numbered at a later date, but for now the intent is to operate all former-VX aircraft with 1000 series flight numbers.

KICT · Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:32 am

How is April 25, 2018 "soon"?

JayWings · Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:13 am

KICT wrote:
How is April 25, 2018 "soon"?

For the 5th largest airline in the US, which previously had not specified when this would happen, that's soon.

wedgetail737 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:09 am

When I made my reservation on VX for this November, both a VX flight number and a corresponding AS 1000-series number were generated. In terms of Mileage Plan, the cite the 1000-series AS flight numbers.

gunsontheroof · Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:28 am

KICT wrote:
How is April 25, 2018 "soon"?

It's about as soon as we could possibly expect...

MIflyer12 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:01 am

Will these be under a Single Operating Certificate, or 'AS 1xxx operated by Virgin America?'

Seventeen months from financial transaction close to merge a small carrier with a single type into the SOC isn't exactly aggressive. Look at the DL+NW (14 mos) and UA+CO timelines with much larger and more diverse fleets.

jeffh747 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:08 pm

I noticed that the VX flight numbers changed back in the first week of September. Flight 1 changed to 1001, 340 changed to 1340, etc. Certainly sad to see the merger is already in full effect. Not looking forward to the elimination of the brand and product.

jfklganyc · Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:11 pm

JayWings wrote:
KICT wrote:
How is April 25, 2018 "soon"?

For the 5th largest airline in the US, which previously had not specified when this would happen, that's soon.

I think post merger, they are still smaller than B6.

Puts them at #6...unless something has changed.

Polot · Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:19 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
JayWings wrote:
KICT wrote:
How is April 25, 2018 "soon"?

For the 5th largest airline in the US, which previously had not specified when this would happen, that's soon.

I think post merger, they are still smaller than B6.

Puts them at #6...unless something has changed.

AS/VX is bigger than B6 by a decent amount when you consider Horizon and Skywest's contributions. If you exclude them than AS/VX are very similar in size to B6.

lightsaber · Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:08 pm

gunsontheroof wrote:
KICT wrote:
How is April 25, 2018 "soon"?

It's about as soon as we could possibly expect...

This soon forces a timeline. Instead of why does this have to complete this week, it is overtime to finish the merger on time.

As to the B6 vs. AS size debate... I like both airlines.

Narfish641 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:11 pm

jeffh747 wrote:
I noticed that the VX flight numbers changed back in the first week of September. Flight 1 changed to 1001, 340 changed to 1340, etc. Certainly sad to see the merger is already in full effect. Not looking forward to the elimination of the brand and product.

Alaska did say they were gonna bring some of the stuff they did in Virgin America. I'm skeptical a bit and never flowned Alaska. Let's just wait and see what they will do later on.

Narfish641 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:13 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Consistent with transitioning to a single Passenger Service System, all soon-to-be former VX flights are now listed as AS flights starting April 25, 2018. The flights are all shown as 1000 series flight numbers,making it easier to determine which flights are operated by Boeing aircraft and which are Airbus.

At least for now, anyway; it's possible the combined operations and inventories could be re-numbered at a later date, but for now the intent is to operate all former-VX aircraft with 1000 series flight numbers.

Strange... I thought the merger would take place in 2019, guess they starting off early before the major part of the merger.

stlgph · Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:38 pm

KICT wrote:
How is April 25, 2018 "soon"?

Dumb question.
It's two quarters. That's actually pretty damn quick.

mooseofspruce · Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:45 pm

jeffh747 wrote:
I noticed that the VX flight numbers changed back in the first week of September. Flight 1 changed to 1001, 340 changed to 1340, etc. Certainly sad to see the merger is already in full effect. Not looking forward to the elimination of the brand and product.

Same, their Twitter came up with "We're integrating our systems" when I asked them about it. Even before this thread though I noticed the schedule on VX's site didn't load past late April and now we have the answer (looking at an SFO-BWI in late July brings up a 1000 series flight number operated by "Alaska Airlines Airbus Series" with the seatmap of an A320 for instance). For what it's worth it feels almost guilty that with AS having a 2x miles promotion on a bunch of routes on the combined network is making me use my Mileage Plan number going between SF/LA rather than my Elevate.

But oh well, looks like my annual trip to BWI next year will be on an AS-operated flight and I'm curious how different it'll be from my experience with VX this August.

EA CO AS · Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:05 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
When I made my reservation on VX for this November, both a VX flight number and a corresponding AS 1000-series number were generated. In terms of Mileage Plan, the cite the 1000-series AS flight numbers.

They’re sold as AS* designated codeshare flights (operated by Virgin America) for now; SOC status is expected in early to mid January 2018.

Elevate’s last day is December 31, 2017, with AS Mileage Plan being the sole FF program for the combined company thereafter. All aircraft will have been retrofitted into the new AS interiors and painted in AS livery no later than 4Q19.

QXAS · Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:03 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
When I made my reservation on VX for this November, both a VX flight number and a corresponding AS 1000-series number were generated. In terms of Mileage Plan, the cite the 1000-series AS flight numbers.

They’re sold as AS* designated codeshare flights (operated by Virgin America) for now; SOC status is expected in early to mid January 2018.

Elevate’s last day is December 31, 2017, with AS Mileage Plan being the sole FF program for the combined company thereafter. All aircraft will have been retrofitted into the new AS interiors and painted in AS livery no later than 4Q19.

Last I heard, conversions and repaints are not starting until 2019. That's a pretty quick turnover for about 70 airplanes. You probably know more information on the matter.

wedgetail737 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:36 pm

QXAS wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
When I made my reservation on VX for this November, both a VX flight number and a corresponding AS 1000-series number were generated. In terms of Mileage Plan, the cite the 1000-series AS flight numbers.

They’re sold as AS* designated codeshare flights (operated by Virgin America) for now; SOC status is expected in early to mid January 2018.

Elevate’s last day is December 31, 2017, with AS Mileage Plan being the sole FF program for the combined company thereafter. All aircraft will have been retrofitted into the new AS interiors and painted in AS livery no later than 4Q19.

Last I heard, conversions and repaints are not starting until 2019. That's a pretty quick turnover for about 70 airplanes. You probably know more information on the matter.

Is the new SF Giants A321-NEO going to be one of the first with the Alaska brand?

bnatraveler · Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:59 pm

It looks like they will be on one certificate when they merge PSSes.

VI*1«
FLIGHT DATE SEGMENT DPTR ARVL MLS EQP ELPD MILES SM
1 AS 1101 26APR BNA SFO 1905 2206 F 32S 5.01 1965 N

No disclosure of "operated by" which you do see on VX operated flights prior to 25APR

VI*«
FLIGHT DATE SEGMENT DPTR ARVL MLS EQP ELPD MILES SM
1 AS*1101 24APR BNA SFO 1855 2205 F 319 5.10 1965 N
ARR-TERMINAL 2
*BNA-SFO OPERATED BY VIRGIN AMERICA
BNA-SFO CHECK-IN WITH VIRGIN AMERICA

EA CO AS · Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:02 pm

bnatraveler wrote:
It looks like they will be on one certificate when they merge PSSes.

*IA«
1 AS1101V 26APR 4 BNASFO SS1 1905 2206 /DCAS /E
VI*«
FLIGHT DATE SEGMENT DPTR ARVL MLS EQP ELPD MILES SM
1 AS 1101 26APR BNA SFO 1905 2206 F 32S 5.01 1965 N

No disclosure of "operated by" which you do see on SkyWest operated flights:

FLIGHT DATE SEGMENT DPTR ARVL MLS EQP ELPD MILES SM
2 AS*3379 29APR DAL SEA 1539 1754 FF E75 4.15 1663 N
DEP-TERMINAL 1
*DAL-SEA OPERATED BY SKYWEST AIRLINES AS ALASKASKYWEST
DAL-SEA CHECK-IN WITH ALASKA AIRLINES

Correct; SOC occurs before PSS cutover. SOC is expected sometime in early to mid January, whereas PSS cutover is April 25th.

EA CO AS · Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:05 pm

QXAS wrote:
Last I heard, conversions and repaints are not starting until 2019.

I'm not sure when the first takes place, but the last one is projected to be done by the end of 2019.

11725Flyer · Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:06 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
When I made my reservation on VX for this November, both a VX flight number and a corresponding AS 1000-series number were generated. In terms of Mileage Plan, the cite the 1000-series AS flight numbers.

They’re sold as AS* designated codeshare flights (operated by Virgin America) for now; SOC status is expected in early to mid January 2018.

Elevate’s last day is December 31, 2017, with AS Mileage Plan being the sole FF program for the combined company thereafter. All aircraft will have been retrofitted into the new AS interiors and painted in AS livery no later than 4Q19.

What happens to the "Proudly All Boeing" on the AS fleet?

EA CO AS · Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:08 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Is the new SF Giants A321-NEO going to be one of the first with the Alaska brand?

The branding folks are being intentionally vague about the Giants' A321; we've all seen the proposed livery (with the Giants logo and the Golden Gate Bridge) but the tail is blank. There's no way it's going to remain blank, but when asked about it - several times - the branding and marketing people dance around it. I'd guess it'll wear VX colors until SOC occurs, then have Chester applied to the tail later.

EA CO AS · Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:12 pm

11725Flyer wrote:

What happens to the "Proudly All Boeing" an the AS fleet?

Who cares?

Hasn't been addressed yet; a decision on fleet strategy was expected by next month, but that is being delayed while the Airbus fleet - particularly the A321NEO - are being evaluated. The company is considering many different aspects of the fleet, like acquisition costs, efficiency, range and performance, revenue potential, projected reliability, operating costs, etc. Regardless of what decision is made, AS will operate Airbus equipment for at least 5 more years if not longer.

11725Flyer · Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:30 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:

What happens to the "Proudly All Boeing" an the AS fleet?

Who cares?

Hasn't been addressed yet; a decision on fleet strategy was expected by next month, but that is being delayed while the Airbus fleet - particularly the A321NEO - are being evaluated. The company is considering many different aspects of the fleet, like acquisition costs, efficiency, range and performance, revenue potential, projected reliability, operating costs, etc. Regardless of what decision is made, AS will operate Airbus equipment for at least 5 more years if not longer.

Airbus cares. They're looking forward to the day AS has "Proudly All Airbus" on all its planes. :duck:

n7371f · Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:01 pm

When does Alaska paint over or decal over the "Proudly All Boeing"? Single SOC would be a good idea.

PlanesNTrains · Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:51 pm

n7371f wrote:
When does Alaska paint over or decal over the "Proudly All Boeing"? Single SOC would be a good idea.

You should email them and let us know what they say.

gregn21 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:50 pm

When will they repaint the L-VX Airbuses?

F9Animal · Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:50 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:

What happens to the "Proudly All Boeing" an the AS fleet?

Who cares?

Hasn't been addressed yet; a decision on fleet strategy was expected by next month, but that is being delayed while the Airbus fleet - particularly the A321NEO - are being evaluated. The company is considering many different aspects of the fleet, like acquisition costs, efficiency, range and performance, revenue potential, projected reliability, operating costs, etc. Regardless of what decision is made, AS will operate Airbus equipment for at least 5 more years if not longer.

I'm not here to start an A vs. B..... But... I think AS is being very smart about this, and evaluating the new type. I seriously think they will find the 321 will be a really nice match. I seriously can't wait to see an AS paint job on a 321!

JayWings · Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:51 am

EA CO AS wrote:
QXAS wrote:
Last I heard, conversions and repaints are not starting until 2019.

I'm not sure when the first takes place, but the last one is projected to be done by the end of 2019.

I have heard 1Q of 18 is the first painted and converted Airbus into full AS, but nothing official.

EA CO AS · Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:44 am

n7371f wrote:
When does Alaska paint over or decal over the "Proudly All Boeing"? Single SOC would be a good idea.

Next time I see him, I'm asking Brad Tilden to keep that on the aircraft, regardless of the long-term fleet plans, just to drive half of a.net mad....

BobbyPSP · Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:56 am

When do VX crews get on the AS contracts? Huge increase in pay and stability

B727skyguy · Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:03 am

The PSS cutover should be pretty smooth. Aren't both AS and VX on Sabre?

Why do modern airline mergers seem to take so long for the rebranding? When AA merged with OC (AirCal), I saw pics of OC planes in the OC livery but the name "American" on the fuselage and on the tail until the plane was put in full AA livery. The same was true with the NW/RC (Republic) merger. Literally overnight, the Republic name disappeared and was replaced by Northwest.

Tailwinds · Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:10 am

KICT wrote:
How is April 25, 2018 "soon"?

The MO for the cutover is to not transfer reservations from one system to the next, which can be messy, but rather to stop loading future flights in to one system and only load them in to the other. To do that you have to make the cutover date at a point far enough away that no flights have been loaded yet.

EA CO AS · Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:22 am

B727skyguy wrote:
The PSS cutover should be pretty smooth. Aren't both AS and VX on Sabre?

Why do modern airline mergers seem to take so long for the rebranding? When AA merged with OC (AirCal), I saw pics of OC planes in the OC livery but the name "American" on the fuselage and on the tail until the plane was put in full AA livery. The same was true with the NW/RC (Republic) merger. Literally overnight, the Republic name disappeared and was replaced by Northwest.

The cutover is a “drain down” method, where inventory on legacy VX flights stopped being sold a few months back for travel after 24APR18. Travel after that date can still be done on virginamerica.com but in the background you’re forwarded to alaskaair.com to be booked on the AS partition on 027 stock.

This way, guests with travel after 24APR18 will already be in the AS partition; nothing has to be migrated.

Oh, and all airports will retire their VX branding immediately at PSS; it will all be taken down overnight and be replaced by AS branding.

SXDFC · Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:26 am

Anyone here work at the hangar in which the VX Airbuses will be repainted? If we all donate 10.00 to you so you can paint the "Proudly All Boeing" decal on the Airbus plane, would you do it?

EA CO AS · Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:33 am

SXDFC wrote:
Anyone here work at the hangar in which the VX Airbuses will be repainted?[

You mean in VCV? :stirthepot:

OA940 · Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:41 am

When will we see the first AS A320?

EA CO AS · Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:06 pm

OA940 wrote:
When will we see the first AS A320?

I'd guess sometime in January 2018 to coincide with SOC status, but I don't have any definite dates at this point.

KICT · Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:00 am

Doesn't VX have a contract in Lake Charles for their Airbus maintenance?

AAvgeek744 · Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:24 am

11725Flyer wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
When I made my reservation on VX for this November, both a VX flight number and a corresponding AS 1000-series number were generated. In terms of Mileage Plan, the cite the 1000-series AS flight numbers.

They’re sold as AS* designated codeshare flights (operated by Virgin America) for now; SOC status is expected in early to mid January 2018.

Elevate’s last day is December 31, 2017, with AS Mileage Plan being the sole FF program for the combined company thereafter. All aircraft will have been retrofitted into the new AS interiors and painted in AS livery no later than 4Q19.

What happens to the "Proudly All Boeing" on the AS fleet?

Why does it matter? Mixed fleets are now the norm, with few exceptions.

cschleic · Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:56 am

EA CO AS wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:

What happens to the "Proudly All Boeing" an the AS fleet?

Who cares?

Hasn't been addressed yet; a decision on fleet strategy was expected by next month, but that is being delayed while the Airbus fleet - particularly the A321NEO - are being evaluated. The company is considering many different aspects of the fleet, like acquisition costs, efficiency, range and performance, revenue potential, projected reliability, operating costs, etc. Regardless of what decision is made, AS will operate Airbus equipment for at least 5 more years if not longer.

I'm just baffled as to why the fleet thing is such a big deal. They bought a company that operates a different brand of plane. So what. Only on a.net is fleet commonality the deciding factor for an acquisition / merger.

In terms of fleet evaluation, they're a business and they're going to make the best business decision for the company. Period. Considering the A321NEO capabilities, and the fact that they bought a company that already has them in the pipeline, it could be a real opportunity.

packmedic · Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:07 am

BobbyPSP wrote:
When do VX crews get on the AS contracts? Huge increase in pay and stability

Pilots are currently waiting on the results of arbitration (I think 20-something days before results are expected?)

Flight attendants at VX are now represented by AFA Alaska, and AS/VX flight attendants are currently in negotiations with management for a joint contract

I don’t know about other work groups

EA CO AS · Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:45 am

cschleic wrote:
In terms of fleet evaluation, they're a business and they're going to make the best business decision for the company. Period. Considering the A321NEO capabilities, and the fact that they bought a company that already has them in the pipeline, it could be a real opportunity.

Agreed. And the A321NEO is a hell of an airplane; it's getting rave reviews so far.

And if Boeing wants AS to remain "Proudly All Boeing" then they'll need to build something equal to or better than it, with equal or better performance, costs, etc.

BobbyPSP · Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:08 am

packmedic wrote:
BobbyPSP wrote:
When do VX crews get on the AS contracts? Huge increase in pay and stability

Pilots are currently waiting on the results of arbitration (I think 20-something days before results are expected?)

Flight attendants at VX are now represented by AFA Alaska, and AS/VX flight attendants are currently in negotiations with management for a joint contract

I don’t know about other work groups

Thank you!

B727skyguy · Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:29 am

JayWings wrote:
I have heard 1Q of 18 is the first painted and converted Airbus into full AS, but nothing official.

It will be strange but interesting to see an Airbus painted in full AS livery. When I started following AS in high school, they had only the 727 and 737 in the fleet. The 737QC seemed like such a cool plane.

B727skyguy · Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:38 am

EA CO AS wrote:
The cutover is a “drain down” method, where inventory on legacy VX flights stopped being sold a few months back for travel after 24APR18. Travel after that date can still be done on virginamerica.com but in the background you’re forwarded to alaskaair.com to be booked on the AS partition on 027 stock.

This way, guests with travel after 24APR18 will already be in the AS partition; nothing has to be migrated.

Oh, and all airports will retire their VX branding immediately at PSS; it will all be taken down overnight and be replaced by AS branding.

The drain down method is smart. As far as the branding, I was actually referring to the planes. With airline mergers in the '80s, temporary rebranding happened overnight. I've seen pics of OC (AirCal) planes with American titles and RC (Republic) planes with Northwest titles on them. They were still in the OC or RC livery, but they had the new airline's name on them almost overnight after the merger was finalized. I can't imagine that AS will put the name "Alaska" over "Virgin America" on every VX plane overnight after SOC.

wedgetail737 · Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:48 pm

B727skyguy wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
The cutover is a “drain down” method, where inventory on legacy VX flights stopped being sold a few months back for travel after 24APR18. Travel after that date can still be done on virginamerica.com but in the background you’re forwarded to alaskaair.com to be booked on the AS partition on 027 stock.

This way, guests with travel after 24APR18 will already be in the AS partition; nothing has to be migrated.

Oh, and all airports will retire their VX branding immediately at PSS; it will all be taken down overnight and be replaced by AS branding.

The drain down method is smart. As far as the branding, I was actually referring to the planes. With airline mergers in the '80s, temporary rebranding happened overnight. I've seen pics of OC (AirCal) planes with American titles and RC (Republic) planes with Northwest titles on them. They were still in the OC or RC livery, but they had the new airline's name on them almost overnight after the merger was finalized. I can't imagine that AS will put the name "Alaska" over "Virgin America" on every VX plane overnight after SOC.

Even AS did that years ago with Jet America. AS took off the Jet America titles and their emblem and slapped an Alaska sticker on the fuselage (or was it painted). Then those airplanes became the backbone of the last intra-California effort.

Will AS get to keep the outlying VX gates as well? For instance at MCO, AS has gate 111 and VX has gate 112. Will AS retain both gates?

packmedic · Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:29 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
B727skyguy wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
The cutover is a “drain down” method, where inventory on legacy VX flights stopped being sold a few months back for travel after 24APR18. Travel after that date can still be done on virginamerica.com but in the background you’re forwarded to alaskaair.com to be booked on the AS partition on 027 stock.

This way, guests with travel after 24APR18 will already be in the AS partition; nothing has to be migrated.

Oh, and all airports will retire their VX branding immediately at PSS; it will all be taken down overnight and be replaced by AS branding.

The drain down method is smart. As far as the branding, I was actually referring to the planes. With airline mergers in the '80s, temporary rebranding happened overnight. I've seen pics of OC (AirCal) planes with American titles and RC (Republic) planes with Northwest titles on them. They were still in the OC or RC livery, but they had the new airline's name on them almost overnight after the merger was finalized. I can't imagine that AS will put the name "Alaska" over "Virgin America" on every VX plane overnight after SOC.

Even AS did that years ago with Jet America. AS took off the Jet America titles and their emblem and slapped an Alaska sticker on the fuselage (or was it painted). Then those airplanes became the backbone of the last intra-California effort.

Will AS get to keep the outlying VX gates as well? For instance at MCO, AS has gate 111 and VX has gate 112. Will AS retain both gates?

I would say the gates are probably staying. Just because the airlines are combining doesn’t mean flights are disappearing.

jfklganyc · Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:11 pm

Gate use becomes more efficient. No need to keep more gates than necessary for a flight schedule especially at airports where gates are readily available.

I believe AS and VX moved to T7 at JFK for a combined operation yesterday

n7371f · Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:57 am

EA CO AS wrote:
cschleic wrote:
In terms of fleet evaluation, they're a business and they're going to make the best business decision for the company. Period. Considering the A321NEO capabilities, and the fact that they bought a company that already has them in the pipeline, it could be a real opportunity.

Agreed. And the A321NEO is a hell of an airplane; it's getting rave reviews so far.

And if Boeing wants AS to remain "Proudly All Boeing" then they'll need to build something equal to or better than it, with equal or better performance, costs, etc.

The market has spoken that for 2+ years. Maybe AS can buy a bunch of younger 757's to stay all Boeing:-)

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