TK787 wrote:

OA260 wrote:

TK787 wrote:

TK just posted this on their Facebook page, and already 22 comments from confused pax.
What does this "Banderole Visa" mean?

Wasnt Banderole the stickers that were placed in the passports after paying the cash at the visa desks before E Visas came in?

Yes, you win
Just got a response from TK's Facebook people:

"Hi, visas which are obtained at the border of the Republic of Turkey are called banderol visa."

So, this means, a US passport holder can arrive from a non-US city and go get a visa stamp for $20 and enter Turkey?
I wish they worded this clearer.

Nice try. But mostly useless, of course, for TK. Almost all of their US passengers (US citizens) come from the US. This is more favourable for the European carriers, as a stop in Europe would qualify them for a banderole visa. Makes no sense...but then, none of this does.

TK787 wrote:

OA260 wrote:

TK787 wrote:

TK just posted this on their Facebook page, and already 22 comments from confused pax.
What does this "Banderole Visa" mean?

Wasnt Banderole the stickers that were placed in the passports after paying the cash at the visa desks before E Visas came in?

Yes, you win
Just got a response from TK's Facebook people:

"Hi, visas which are obtained at the border of the Republic of Turkey are called banderol visa."

So, this means, a US passport holder can arrive from a non-US city and go get a visa stamp for $20 and enter Turkey?
I wish they worded this clearer.

They can't either. The visa ban applies for passport/citizenship not original destination.

http://m.hurriyet.com.tr/amerikalilar-k ... r-40606296

Two cases reported, one arriving from US and another from AMS.

Have a question about IST runway ops. Last time I flew through IST, they had alternating take offs from 35L and 17L. Have never seen such set up before and wonder if that is something unique to IST and how often they use that set up?

B747forever wrote:

Have a question about IST runway ops. Last time I flew through IST, they had alternating take offs from 35L and 17L. Have never seen such set up before and wonder if that is something unique to IST and how often they use that set up?

Do you mean; one take off at 35L, next one 17L and back to 35L?? That would be crazy and probably you don't mean that.

TK787 wrote:

B747forever wrote:

Have a question about IST runway ops. Last time I flew through IST, they had alternating take offs from 35L and 17L. Have never seen such set up before and wonder if that is something unique to IST and how often they use that set up?

Do you mean; one take off at 35L, next one 17L and back to 35L?? That would be crazy and probably you don't mean that.

Yes, that is what I mean! Was quite surprised when I saw it. We took off from 35L, and there were a few heavies queuing at the other end for 17L as we passed. While waiting in the take off queue I saw a few airplanes take off toward us from 17L. Anyone has an account on FR24 and can playback for 17/9 around 1445-1510 LT (1145-1210 UTC) to confirm if in fact they used this configuration?

Okay, this confirms what actually took place.

My flight TK1795 35L http://flightaware.com/live/flight/THY1 ... /LTBA/ESSA

Random flight close to time frame (3min before my take off) TK35 17L http://flightaware.com/live/flight/THY3 ... /LTBA/CYUL

Wasn't there a claim that especially during summer heavy aircraft took off towards the sea to avoid obstacles to the north?

leftyboarder wrote:

Wasn't there a claim that especially during summer heavy aircraft took off towards the sea to avoid obstacles to the north?

Interestingly, I saw mainly A330s use 17L, while everyone else went from 35L.

B747forever wrote:

leftyboarder wrote:

Wasn't there a claim that especially during summer heavy aircraft took off towards the sea to avoid obstacles to the north?

Interestingly, I saw mainly A330s use 17L, while everyone else went from 35L.

Yes 330 can not take off with max payload from 35 because of engine out climb performance.

These days, I am seeing such articles with some frequency regarding TK's relative lack of destinations in China and India. However, as TK's problem in both countries is governmental limitations, I am struggling to see how any expansion can occur. Any thoughts?

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/201 ... -and-india

globetrotter94 wrote:

These days, I am seeing such articles with some frequency regarding TK's relative lack of destinations in China and India. However, as TK's problem in both countries is governmental limitations, I am struggling to see how any expansion can occur. Any thoughts?

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/201 ... -and-india

"Third Airport", "third runway", "eight 747-8s"
You are right, bilaterals is the only sticking point. I guess TK will keep trying in China, India, Canada to get more frequencies.

TK787 wrote:

globetrotter94 wrote:

These days, I am seeing such articles with some frequency regarding TK's relative lack of destinations in China and India. However, as TK's problem in both countries is governmental limitations, I am struggling to see how any expansion can occur. Any thoughts?

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/201 ... -and-india

"Third Airport", "third runway", "eight 747-8s"
You are right, bilaterals is the only sticking point. I guess TK will keep trying in China, India, Canada to get more frequencies.

Well, good luck to them on that certainly... another idea I was thinking might be, what about investing in local carriers and setting up codeshare networks through Istanbul, with ???-IST-??? flight operated by the local carrier? Might work in India's case, where the Indian government might look at TK's request more favorably if the Indian allotment of the bilaterals were filled up somehow (doesn't have to be O&D traffic)? May be too crazy an idea?

TK787 wrote:

You are right, bilaterals is the only sticking point. I guess TK will keep trying in China, India, Canada to get more frequencies.

Wouldn't this be a rather "wishful thinking"???

By definition, "bilateral" works for both sides concerned. In case of India & China, no carriers from these countries fly to Turkey. In case of Canada, AC sometimes comes and then goes. So before the other ends' carriers start regularly flying to Turkey with the same frequencies, the authorities in those countries will not consider Turkey's (for TK), request for increasing the already assigned and agreed frequencies?

The New Istanbul Airport is claimed to overcome "some" problems and shortcomings of IST/AHL Airport; by providing ample slots, pax handling capacity, parking space, even seamless a380 operations. But I think all these arguments are BS in the presence of today's conditions and politics.

Anyone can give a reasonable answer as why China isn't sending in 1 million tourists a year, based upon the agreement (or let's say "promise" made by the Chinese authorities) after Turkey allowed the hulk of Varyag passing the Turkish Straits?

TK787 wrote:

You are right, bilaterals is the only sticking point. I guess TK will keep trying in China, India, Canada to get more frequencies.

Wouldn't this be a rather "wishful thinking"???

By definition, "bilateral" works for both sides concerned. In case of India & China, no carriers from these countries fly to Turkey. In case of Canada, AC sometimes comes and then goes. So before the other ends' carriers start regularly flying to Turkey with the same frequencies, the authorities in those countries will not consider Turkey's (for TK), request for increasing the already assigned and agreed frequencies?

The New Istanbul Airport is claimed to overcome "some" problems and shortcomings of IST/AHL Airport; by providing ample slots, pax handling capacity, parking space, even seamless a380 operations. But I think all these arguments are BS in the presence of today's conditions and politics.

Anyone can give a reasonable answer as why China isn't sending in 1 million tourists a year, based upon the agreement (or let's say "promise" made by the Chinese authorities) after Turkey allowed the hulk of Varyag passing the Turkish Straits?

I read at airporthaber that THY is reinstating Ankara Paris Ankara direct flights as of 31 October 2017. Anybody has information on flight details as it is not loaded on TK website yet...

ankaraflyjet wrote:

I read at airporthaber that THY is reinstating Ankara Paris Ankara direct flights as of 31 October 2017. Anybody has information on flight details as it is not loaded on TK website yet...

Tues/Sat flights ESB 0950 CDG 1150 TK 1831
Tues/Sat flights CDG 1250 ESB 1845 TK 1832

Interesting: Who would go to Paris from Ankara on a saturday morning?

mafaky wrote:

Interesting: Who would go to Paris from Ankara on a saturday morning?

Is this a serious question?

TK105 wrote:

mafaky wrote:

Interesting: Who would go to Paris from Ankara on a saturday morning?

Is this a serious question?

Most definitely. Saturday is the least travelled day of the week, in general. If a flight is operated 6 times weekly, it is most often every day except Saturdays. I agree with my friend mafaky that a twice weekly flight is odd in being operated on a Saturday.

Thank you for the information, much appreciated, I do this route a couple of times a year, I wish they started with three weekly frequency but better than nothing.

I am sure it will be popular and also the time of the flights are good, I hope LHR will follow...

OA260 wrote:

ankaraflyjet wrote:

I read at airporthaber that THY is reinstating Ankara Paris Ankara direct flights as of 31 October 2017. Anybody has information on flight details as it is not loaded on TK website yet...

Tues/Sat flights ESB 0950 CDG 1150 TK 1831
Tues/Sat flights CDG 1250 ESB 1845 TK 1832

Reports from within Turkey's defence secretariat suggest that the TRJ program based on Dornier 328 might have been canceled due to being "too costly."
Reports suggest plans enter the commercial aircraft manufacturing industry continue, but would do so by looking at other models and different investments.


Turkey's TRJet regional programme reported to be cancelled
http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/turkey ... elled.html

=

Majority of A330-300s are not equipped with fuel jettison capability. Equipping planes with fuel jettison capability adds both cost and weight. The weight of the added plumbing and pumps can instead be used for things like payload, or simply reduced fuel burn.

What are the plans for IST after new airport opens? Couldn't TK use it for O&D routes to Europe,Middle East and Africa, while using the new airport as it's hub until additional runways are operational and terminal space allows all TK flights to operate from it?

In 7 hours the plane could fly to Iceland. I know the pilots knew that but why did they think this was a bad idea?

globetrotter94 wrote:

MalevTU134 wrote:

mafaky wrote:

That 333 (TC-LOA), circled around for more than 7 hours to burn fuel and reach the allowable safe landing weight. Apparently it wasn't equipped with a fuel dumping system. I read in Wiki, that Boeing 767, Airbus 300/310/330 models can be ordered with or without fuel dumping systems. Now I wonder:
1) Does any of TK's 332 & 333 birds have fuel dumping systems (including the leased ones and the cargo versions)?
2) If only some do have the said infrastructure, what is the reason why they have sent this particular frame (w/o fuel dumping system) to an ER flight out to Canada: obviously necessiating a take-off at IST at max. allowable payload? What if that pax hadn't just fainted but would be having a hearth attack? Would the captain be brave enough to make an immediate landing taking the risks to break up that bird?

It is my understanding that the A330 can make safe overweight landings at MTOW, so there is no need for brave captains. The plane was built to land just fine without dumping fuel.

Which then begs the question that if its only a couple extra checklists that need to be done before a landing is possible, why the pilots chose instead to circle for 7 hours to burn fuel...

I would like not to comment on that, mainly because I am not competent to do so, and none of us has all the info of what actually happened up there, but suffice it to say that TK pilots have had all but stellar performances at landings in the past (KTM and other incidents just in the last few years), so maybe it is just as well they didn't try an overweight landing.

globetrotter94 wrote:

What is less alarming to me is that some of TK's A330s may not have fuel-dumping systems, but rather that A330s are allowed to be sold without fuel-dumping systems at all! Is it possible that the fuel-dumping system was somehow inoperative, rather than not being present at all?

Why is it alarming? Large variety of models including from Boeing do not have fuel jettison capability whatsoever not even an option including the brand new 737MAX family entering service. Certainly, its not seen as an issue by regulators, manufacturers or airlines.

globetrotter94 wrote:

Which then begs the question that if its only a couple extra checklists that need to be done before a landing is possible, why the pilots chose instead to circle for 7 hours to burn fuel...

Its a lot more than just a crew checklist. Maintenance must perform an overweight landing inspection which will take the plane out of service for a bit.
Also overweight landings increase risk of damage or incident obviously.

Bozk wrote:

In 7 hours the plane could fly to Iceland. I know the pilots knew that but why did they think this was a bad idea?

Why go to Iceland and potentially get stuck? Returning to IST allows TK recrew the flight and take care of passengers certainly much better fashion.

ist2014 wrote:

Skymark birds are TC-LOA-G

Sorry my typo-mistake, while writing in a hurry. The frame that toured around for 7+ hrs. is TC-JOA.

The 787 in TK colors looks very good.

Saludos,
Alex

abrelosojos wrote:

The 787 in TK colors looks very good.

Saludos,
Alex

Where did you see it Alex?

georgiabill wrote:

What are the plans for IST after new airport opens? Couldn't TK use it for O&D routes to Europe,Middle East and Africa, while using the new airport as it's hub until additional runways are operational and terminal space allows all TK flights to operate from it?

My understanding was that it was to be converted to a convention center, but I don't have any more details other than this.

Per the DHMI (State Airport Authority) GM, Ataturk will in short term serve as a general aviation, cargo, flight training and MRO location.

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/201 ... port-opens

TK Technic and Onur Air Technics for example will still need IST as new airport facilities will not be complete for the opening, while the recently expanded Turkish Aviation Academy is also at IST.

Longer term ideas are to turn the airport into mixed use convention facilities, hotels, and commercial business park area along with green space.

LAXintl wrote:

Longer term ideas are to turn the airport into mixed use convention facilities, hotels, and commercial business park area along with green space.

Anybody sane and sober enough to believe that, particularly after it has been announced by the (mouthpiece) Minister of Transportation and expressing at the very beginning that it's been Erdogan's wishes and "instructions" to be so...??? Come on, it's 12 km2 piece of land in one of the most prestigious part of the town, and there are already two hotels and two convention sites and four office tower blocks in the vicinity!!! And there are already "made" plans to demolish those blocks and the bigger area convention center and re-build a huuuge convention center in their place.

Pls. see this thread as well:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1376135&p=19886563#p19886563

To clarify this TK35 IST-IST instead of IST-YUL mishap, here are some other points I discovered (mainly from another Turkish Aviation Fırum):
1) All (not most) A333s are not equipped with "in air fuel dumping system", as they don't have a central body fuel tank (this technical explanation made less sense to me, but it's now a known fact that no A333 have this system...). In case for A332's: it's optional.
2) The near future A338/339 (330-800neo & 330-900neo) will have this systems (possibly, optional).
3) However, it's technically possible for the A333 to land at MTOW. For some reason the cockpit crew (more likely due to the instructions they received from ground, OCC) preferred not to land at/around MTOW and eliminate all risks,what-so-ever (by that time, the flight crew had more insight about the pax's medical state and that he's been recovered after the epileptic stroke; however, they already had declared medical emergency...).

stylo777 wrote:

abrelosojos wrote:

The 787 in TK colors looks very good.

Saludos,
Alex

Where did you see it Alex?

= The model is in the reception area of the CEO office .

Saludos,
Alex

abrelosojos wrote:

stylo777 wrote:

abrelosojos wrote:

The 787 in TK colors looks very good.

Saludos,
Alex

Where did you see it Alex?

= The model is in the reception area of the CEO office .

Saludos,
Alex

Well, with your influence in global aviation I was already expecting the 787 sitting in some paintshops and awaiting delivery

Just got back from a 4 segment trip on United Airlines paid by UA miles; flew on 777-200, 757-200, 737-800, CRJ-700.
Of course, I did a lot of comparing UA with TK. Lot of the stuff you are already familiar with, TK has better food for free, better hard product and such.
I will just mention the most striking ones:
-UA mobile app works incredibly well. It is up to date with your flight no, gate info, seat map, upgrade list, standby list, airport map, boarding time, what regulation number your plane is and where is it now, arriving when...All great stuff.
-Difference of IFE options on these flights; On a one-hour long 737 flight, there were individual screens on Y, but you had to pay even for flight map. And if you did not, you end up watching commercials all flight long. I just turned mine off. On the 777-200 there were no screens at all, but a place to put your own handheld device. On the 757 there were individual screens, we had free flight map, movies, and audio and such.
-On the 757, 5 hour flight, they had Business Class lie flat seats and service, Economy Comfort with better pitch which also had meal service and Economy had food for purchase option. Seat plan for this type is 28J/42Y+/72Y. Only a small portion of the plane is dedicated to Y pax.
-It cost me 12,500 Mileage miles to fly 3000 miles one way with one-stop via SFO. First segment IFE did not work, second segment at SFO delayed 3.5 hours due to fire situation there and UA immediately offered 7500 miles to compensate for both mishaps. I don't care about IFE anyways, but the delay was long. I just ended up drinking more at the lounge
So, 3000 miles long trip on UA Economy ended up costing me 5000 miles. Just Wow!!! By the way, if I wanted to purchase, Y ticket would cost me $800 round trip for this flight. That is why I choose to fly with miles.
TK has to learn from how UA handled this IROP so swiftly. (Irregular Operation)

TK is looking for a new caterer (from the TK website)

"Turkish Airlines has started negotiations regarding the procurement of catering services at Istanbul third airport applicable upon transfer of its operations thereto. In this respect Turkish Airlines has entered into a memorandum of agreement (MoA) with SATS Investments Pte. Ltd. ("SIPL"), a subsidiary of SATS Ltd (SATS). Upon fulfillment of the conditions precedents in the MoA including legal, governmental and regulatory approvals; the investment into catering services could be undertaken by the relevant party. The material developments will be announced."

Its a matter of money.
If Do&Co cant fund new kitchen at the airport, then others will. Singapore based SATS at its July investor event made mention of how it seeks to build out its 35 airport network with a special focus on Middle East, UK and China. They recently entered into deals in Oman and Saudi Arabia.

Not judging on food quality, how would this affect the future catering concept of TK - positive or negative? TK and Turkish Do&Co are so wel integrated for so many years now, how come TK would let this go down (or in fact not move to the new airport)?!?

If it becomes reality, SATS and Sancak would currently be the only caterers at the airport. Any other interested party has to be very quick with obtaining licences, grabbing some land and build an unit.

The Basaksehir football team is off on European travels again tomorrow, flying to FRA for their away game vs. Hoffenheim:

http://europaleaguecharters.blogspot.co ... -2017.html

Why do TK avoid Israeli space when doing Amman? https://i.gyazo.com/47b237abd206cedb301 ... 43e08c.png

stylo777 wrote:

Not judging on food quality, how would this affect the future catering concept of TK - positive or negative? TK and Turkish Do&Co are so wel integrated for so many years now, how come TK would let this go down (or in fact not move to the new airport)?!?

If it becomes reality, SATS and Sancak would currently be the only caterers at the airport. Any other interested party has to be very quick with obtaining licences, grabbing some land and build an unit.

It is difficult to say... on the one hand Do&Co provides the catering for both TK and OS--both of which are known to have some of the best meals out of European airlines. On the other hand, SATS does service SQ, so there's that as well. However, some of SATS' international operations appear to me to be a true shambles--TajSATS in India, for example--hope THAT is not repeated at the New Istanbul Airport.

Any news concerning new Turkish Airlines destinations? I know Samarkand is coming up but what about a lot of African destinations that have been mentioned in the past? Lomé would seem like a logical addition. I'm thinking of Monrovia, Hargeisa, Berbera, Tobruk, Al-Bayda (Al-Abraq)...

JUANTRIPPEJR wrote:

I know Samarkand is coming up but what about a lot of African destinations that have been mentioned in the past?

Not sure which cities you are referring to but these are the African cities in TK's latest future wish-list: Luanda, Aswan, Luxor, Juba.

TK787 wrote:

TK is looking for a new caterer (from the TK website)

"Turkish Airlines has started negotiations regarding the procurement of catering services at Istanbul third airport applicable upon transfer of its operations thereto. In this respect Turkish Airlines has entered into a memorandum of agreement (MoA) with SATS Investments Pte. Ltd. ("SIPL"), a subsidiary of SATS Ltd (SATS). Upon fulfillment of the conditions precedents in the MoA including legal, governmental and regulatory approvals; the investment into catering services could be undertaken by the relevant party. The material developments will be announced."

Is it coincidence that this announcement comes right after the elections in Austria??
For a very long time Atilla Doğudan was under pressure to scale back its engagement or leave the Turkish market. Now that right-wing parties will come to power his situation might get even worse in Austria. Austria is still Do&Co's main market.

Recent interview with Atilla Doğudan in Austrian derStandard, unfortunately in German:
https://www.derstandard.de/story/200006 ... r-geschert

TK top guy Bilal Ekşi reports significant drop in TK forward bookings to USA. 45% for Turkey to USA and 61% for USA to Turkey.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/vize-krizi-thyyi-vurdu-4061463

http://atwonline.com/security/turkish-us-turkey-bookings-drop-transfer-business-after-visa-row

Tkfan wrote:

TK787 wrote:

TK is looking for a new caterer (from the TK website)

"Turkish Airlines has started negotiations regarding the procurement of catering services at Istanbul third airport applicable upon transfer of its operations thereto. In this respect Turkish Airlines has entered into a memorandum of agreement (MoA) with SATS Investments Pte. Ltd. ("SIPL"), a subsidiary of SATS Ltd (SATS). Upon fulfillment of the conditions precedents in the MoA including legal, governmental and regulatory approvals; the investment into catering services could be undertaken by the relevant party. The material developments will be announced."

Is it coincidence that this announcement comes right after the elections in Austria??

airporthaber.com suggests, they had an article in late July that this might happen: (in Turkish). I assume it was expected in some circles.

"AIRPORTHABER TEMMUZ'DA DUYURMUŞTU
Geçtiğimiz Temmuz ayı sonunda AirportHaber olarak okuyucularımıza, THY Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı İlker Aycı ve Do&Co Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Atilla Doğudan'ın, 3. Havalimanı'na yatırım yapılması konusunda anlaşamadığını ve THY'nin SATS ile görüşmelere başladığını duyurmuştuk."