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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:27 pm

richierich wrote:
Amazing...they can find a 1m long piece of a fan blade which exited a cruising aircraft at 38,000ft and landed on an Arctic shelf of ice, but we still cannot locate a missing airliner on the other side of the planet.


It would have been very easy to find that missing airliner if it was on top of a white snow covered ice sheet....

They will not likely find any of the parts that impacted the water - or penetrated the ice and sank.

Have a great day,
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:59 pm

richierich wrote:
Amazing...they can find a 1m long piece of a fan blade which exited a cruising aircraft at 38,000ft and landed on an Arctic shelf of ice, but we still cannot locate a missing airliner on the other side of the planet.


Ice/land with high visibility against 4-8km depth water. That’s a really poor demagogic argument....
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:08 pm

Yes and there's a big difference.
AF66 flight data recorder has shown them within a few feet when it failed, direction and speed. GCSE maths can get you within a couple of miles of where it probably landed. Then your searching for something dark and shiny on a white background.

MH370 last known location is 7 hours before its hit the sea. Slightly different sir
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:26 pm

richierich wrote:
Amazing...they can find a 1m long piece of a fan blade which exited a cruising aircraft at 38,000ft and landed on an Arctic shelf of ice, but we still cannot locate a missing airliner on the other side of the planet.



Ha ha. Next time you lose your car keys in your driveway, think about the guy who lost his overboard on his boat..........That's about the comparison here only even more extreme..............
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:50 pm

richierich wrote:
Amazing...they can find a 1m long piece of a fan blade which exited a cruising aircraft at 38,000ft and landed on an Arctic shelf of ice, but we still cannot locate a missing airliner on the other side of the planet.


The search zone was probably much much narrower to begin with (known track, known failure position leaving only the wind and fall path as unknowns). And also, the engine components fell on the ice whereas the missing airliner most likely crashed in the middle of a very remote ocean area... Bottom line is we cannot really compare.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:50 pm

Theseus wrote:
richierich wrote:
Amazing...they can find a 1m long piece of a fan blade which exited a cruising aircraft at 38,000ft and landed on an Arctic shelf of ice, but we still cannot locate a missing airliner on the other side of the planet.


The search zone was probably much much narrower to begin with (known track, known failure position leaving only the exact wind and fall path as unknowns). And also, the engine components fell on the ice whereas the missing airliner most likely crashed in the middle of a very remote ocean area... Bottom line is we cannot really compare.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:53 pm

It has been a week since some engine parts were found, but there were reports of worsening weather preventing further searching. such conditions can last for weeks in Greenland, and there seems to me to be a risk that the remaining parts have been buried in snow, preventing visual discovery. It might be quite some time before more discoveries are made.
fortunately the search area is not very large, so eventually the parts will be found, it's just a matter of how long the search has to go on.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:56 pm

I wonder… could geo-magnetic aerial surveying be useful in finding where parts are buried in the snow/ice? Or, is the resolution simply not detailed enough?
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:09 pm

Have just read that the plan is to remove the damaged engine, hang a new one for balance purposes, and ferry back to Paris with only 3 engines operating.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:29 am

Damaged A380 to be flown to France to investigate engine blast.

Link to the Reuters article regarding the 3 engine ferry flight to France.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air- ... SKBN1CF2RA
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:22 am

While the root cause has not been found yet, FAA wants all engines to be inspected.

U.S. air-safety regulators have issued an emergency order requiring airlines to inspect engines on roughly 120 Airbus A380 superjumbo jets world-wide, prompted by an engine that violently broke apart during an Air France flight at the end of September.

The safety directive issued Thursday by the Federal Aviation Administration covers all engines manufactured for Airbus SE A380s by a joint venture comprising General Electric Co. and United Technologies Corp.’s Pratt & Whitney unit.

...

But in the interim, the FAA wants operators to inspect front fan hubs—disks that hold rotating blades—for possible defects or damage. The manufacturer said the checks take roughly two hours and can be done without removing engines from aircraft.

Responding to questions for the alliance, a General Electric spokesman said in an email that the inspections are precautionary and “a root cause has not been established.” The rest of the GP7200 engine fleet “powers the A380 around the clock,” according to the statement, and “we aren’t aware of any issues” that would threaten flight safety.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/faa-orders ... 1507864699
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:40 am

KarelXWB wrote:
While the root cause has not been found yet, FAA wants all engines to be inspected.


This directive is just what should be done after an incident like this with the available evidence and information. If in the directed inspections more engines have similar problems with the hub for the 1st intake fan, then corrective action can be done before the loss of an aircraft and lives.
I must ask, there must have been similar incidents with jet engines in the past, if so how many and how were they resolved.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:58 am

ltbewr wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
While the root cause has not been found yet, FAA wants all engines to be inspected.


This directive is just what should be done after an incident like this with the available evidence and information. If in the directed inspections more engines have similar problems with the hub for the 1st intake fan, then corrective action can be done before the loss of an aircraft and lives.
I must ask, there must have been similar incidents with jet engines in the past, if so how many and how were they resolved.


While it's right & proper to check all GP7200 engines just in case, considering the hours accumulated by them on the A380 without a major problem like this, I'd suggest this is very much an isolated incident. It may be connected to metal fatigue comesurate with age/hours so an inspection may turn something up quickly so its a prudent course, but i've not seen that many incidents like this, so it's pretty rare.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:54 am

ASN tells us:

The GP7200 series engine is in use by A380-861 aircraft of Air France, Etihad Airways, Korean Air, and Qatar Airways, as well as 90 of the 142 A380s ordered by Emirates.

They also give us the link to the AD: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... rgency.pdf

Unfortunately to find out the details of what is being inspected you have to get a document from EA that probably is not public:

For copies of the service information referenced in this AD, contact: Engine Alliance, 400
Main St., East Hartford, CT 06108, M/S 169-10, phone: 800-565-0140; email: help24@pw.utc.com;
website: http://www.engineallianceportal.com. You may view this referenced service information at the
FAA, Engine and Propeller Standards Branch, 1200 District Avenue, Burlington, MA.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:57 am

Tedd wrote:
While it's right & proper to check all GP7200 engines just in case, considering the hours accumulated by them on the A380 without a major problem like this, I'd suggest this is very much an isolated incident. It may be connected to metal fatigue comesurate with age/hours so an inspection may turn something up quickly so its a prudent course, but i've not seen that many incidents like this, so it's pretty rare.


If it turns out to be metal fatigue, it will be interesting to know why it wasn't discovered during previous maintenance overhaul.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:17 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
While the root cause has not been found yet, FAA wants all engines to be inspected.

U.S. air-safety regulators have issued an emergency order requiring airlines to inspect engines on roughly 120 Airbus A380 superjumbo jets world-wide, prompted by an engine that violently broke apart during an Air France flight at the end of September.

The safety directive issued Thursday by the Federal Aviation Administration covers all engines manufactured for Airbus SE A380s by a joint venture comprising General Electric Co. and United Technologies Corp.’s Pratt & Whitney unit.

...

But in the interim, the FAA wants operators to inspect front fan hubs—disks that hold rotating blades—for possible defects or damage. The manufacturer said the checks take roughly two hours and can be done without removing engines from aircraft.

Responding to questions for the alliance, a General Electric spokesman said in an email that the inspections are precautionary and “a root cause has not been established.” The rest of the GP7200 engine fleet “powers the A380 around the clock,” according to the statement, and “we aren’t aware of any issues” that would threaten flight safety.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/faa-orders ... 1507864699


Sure I understand being on a side of caution, but still - how does that work? Does FAA provide detailed instruction on specific spots they believe questionable, or it is more along the lines of "just take a look at that thing, maybe you notice something suspicious"?
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:39 pm

kalvado wrote:
Sure I understand being on a side of caution, but still - how does that work? Does FAA provide detailed instruction on specific spots they believe questionable, or it is more along the lines of "just take a look at that thing, maybe you notice something suspicious"?

As above, the FAA's AD is available ( http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... rgency.pdf ), but the EA (manufacturer's) document is not, so we don't know exactly what is being inspected (until someone gets a copy of the manufacturer's document) but the inspection will be quite specific. It is a procedure that originated within EA and that the FAA has approved.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:05 pm

Tedd wrote:

While it's right & proper to check all GP7200 engines just in case, considering the hours accumulated by them on the A380 without a major problem like this, I'd suggest this is very much an isolated incident. (...).


If there is a similar incident in the near future, the chance this is not an isolated incident instantly goes from negligible to huge.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:41 pm

incitatus wrote:
If there is a similar incident in the near future, the chance this is not an isolated incident instantly goes from negligible to huge.


The AD posted above clearly proposes a timeline based on accumulated cycles. They do not sound that worried apparently
(i) For fan hubs with 3,500 cycles since new (CSN) or more, inspect within 2 weeks of the effective date of this AD.
(ii) For fan hubs with 2,000 CSN or greater and less than 3,500 CSN, inspect within 5 weeks of the effective date of this AD.
(iii) For fan hubs with less than 2,000 CSN, inspect within 8 weeks of the effective date of this AD.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:28 pm

This AD at least narrows down the probably causes.
I did mention bearing failures, others mentioned a casing failure.

This AD squarely put the failure on the disc.

I also take it from the AD that it's a crack propagation issue hence the cyclic limits imposed.

Looks like some stress engineers have been putting in some overtime.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:17 pm

lowbank wrote:
This AD at least narrows down the probably causes.

I did mention bearing failures, others mentioned a casing failure.

This AD squarely put the failure on the disc.

I also take it from the AD that it's a crack propagation issue hence the cyclic limits imposed.

Looks like some stress engineers have been putting in some overtime.

Disc? The AD says:

We are issuing this AD because we evaluated all the relevant information and determined the
unsafe condition described previously is likely to exist or develop in other products of the same type
design.

And the "unsafe condition described previously" is:

The actions specified in this AD are intended to prevent failure of
the fan hub, which could lead to an uncontained release of the fan hub, damage to the engine, and
damage to the airplane.


So AD says the issue is a fan hub.

To visualize it, I looked for a GP7200 fan hub on the web and didn't find one, but did find one for GE90, ironically enough on an AF/KLM web site:

Image

Earlier in this thread Karel posted:

Image

So it's not too hard to visualize where the fan hub used to be.

Also we can see where it is in an actual GP7200 high res cut away from the PW web site:

Image
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:15 pm

Revelation,

The terminology of hub and disk to me are the same, we use disc for that component.

It's the disk/hub that holds the fan blades.

The photo you have put up is not the fan disk/hub.

The fact remains the fan he/disc has failed and based on the AD it failed independently of outside influences.

Hence the cycle related inspections.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:32 pm

lowbank wrote:
Revelation,

The terminology of hub and disk to me are the same, we use disc for that component.

It's the disk/hub that holds the fan blades.

The photo you have put up is not the fan disk/hub.

The fact remains the fan he/disc has failed and based on the AD it failed independently of outside influences.

Hence the cycle related inspections.

Re: disc/hub terminology: Thanks for the clarification.

Re: photo: Sorry if it is incorrect, my source was http://www.afiklmem.com/AFIKLMEM/en/g_p ... s/FHF.html

Re: failure area: Yep, it seems it is now the center of focus. I hope the metallurgists have enough pieces to do their work.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:06 pm

I have found a picture but have no idea how to post it.
Like most modern forums us mere mortals don't know how to work them.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:22 am

Not sure if this is the actual disc or hub but it would look similar to this.

Image
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:44 am

Can someone tell me how to post a picture.
The icons on full editor just add some words



Stupid thing will not work on my iPad.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:45 am

Balerit wrote:
Not sure if this is the actual disc or hub but it would look similar to this.

Image


That looks like a first stage compressor disc/hub
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:58 am

[quote="lowbank"]Can someone tell me how to post a picture.
The icons on full editor just add some words



Stupid thing will not work on my iPad.[/quote]

It should look like

[img]http://www.imagagelink.com/image.png[/img]

The first [img] needs to be closed off with [/img] within square brackets, use the preview after typing it in to make sure it works. On the ipad you may need to press and hold on the screen to get the magnifier up and the location correct.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:20 am

Image

Hope this works.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:21 am

That will be a no then
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:26 am

Ok someone will make this work.
Go to website . Technicut.ltd.uk.

Go to the industry solutions. Then click aeroengine.

Scroll down to fan disc, click on that and there is an image of a fan disc on the page.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:30 am

incitatus wrote:
Tedd wrote:

While it's right & proper to check all GP7200 engines just in case, considering the hours accumulated by them on the A380 without a major problem like this, I'd suggest this is very much an isolated incident. (...).


If there is a similar incident in the near future, the chance this is not an isolated incident instantly goes from negligible to huge.


Absolutely, there is always a chance that whatever part went wrong ( if that's what it was ) that it could have been part of an inferior supply, & that indeed
there could be other engines at risk, hence the importance of a quick response. I wonder if there`s a chance that this catastrophic event could have been
started from some small innocuous malfunction, something like a "pick-up" on a bearing, or blocked oil feed? Certainly with internal combustion piston
engines a little malfunction can lead to a major event. Perhaps not, the consensus on these pages seems to suggest a major component break resulting
in a third of the engine breaking away.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:49 am

lowbank wrote:
Go to website . Technicut.ltd.uk.Go to the industry solutions. Then click aeroengine.
Scroll down to fan disc, click on that and there is an image of a fan disc on the page.


Image

?
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:55 am

Is this what everyone is looking for:
Image
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:00 pm

Tedd wrote:
resulting
in a third of the engine breaking away.


View into the engine "stump" and the recovered fan shroud looks like the complete hub separated
from the LP shaft. failure between the rim and the torque taking joint to the LP shaft. not the joint.

Full rotational energy of the fan was transfered via destructive braking
into the "single blade off proof" fan shroud taking the whole shebang on a joy ride.

Energy release wise this was a much "better" bang than QF32.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:22 pm

WIederling wrote:
lowbank wrote:
Go to website . Technicut.ltd.uk.Go to the industry solutions. Then click aeroengine.
Scroll down to fan disc, click on that and there is an image of a fan disc on the page.


?

Thanks, it is very helpful.

WIederling wrote:
Tedd wrote:
resulting
in a third of the engine breaking away.


View into the engine "stump" and the recovered fan shroud looks like the complete hub separated
from the LP shaft. failure between the rim and the torque taking joint to the LP shaft. not the joint.


Would be interesting to see where that is in the cut-away drawing I posted above ( http://www.pw.utc.com/Content/GP7200_En ... y_high.jpg )

Seems like someone ( El Duderino‏ ) tried to do this on Twitter:

Image

Ref: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLUd3DjXkAE015f.jpg
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:30 pm

Interesting tweet from "Captain Dave" (@DaveWallsworth), a BA A380 captain, with notes on how a 3 engine ferry is done on A380 and some Q&A follow ons.

Image

Ref: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLz9YtxW0AATmWW.jpg
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:25 pm

Revelation wrote:
Would be interesting to see where that is in the cut-away drawing I posted above


I think it is probably roughly like this:
Image
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:46 pm

Revelation wrote:
Interesting tweet from "Captain Dave" (@DaveWallsworth), a BA A380 captain, with notes on how a 3 engine ferry is done on A380 and some Q&A follow ons.


Interesting information. I would have had serious doubts you could take off on three engines due to the thrust asymmetry, even if you are light-weight. I'm wondering if the outer engine on the good wing has to be thrust limited so far as the rudder can correct - ie, a 2.5 engine takeoff? Or would you get rolling on two engines and then introduce the third asymmetric engine as you get rudder authority with speed?
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:52 pm

I think you almost have it. If you extend your red lines further left, to the end of the conical part and the web pointing at an angle to the right.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:53 pm

speedbored wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Would be interesting to see where that is in the cut-away drawing I posted above


I think it is probably roughly like this:

That's very helpful!

I have a degree in engineering but sucked at the few classes I had related to mechanical engineering. It takes me a long time to visualize what is going on.

It looks like the fan hub you pictured in #534 above is totally gone, and we see the remnants of a shaft that joins the fan hub to 'LP shaft proper' (my made up terminology) is still present.

It is a bit confusing then that the FAA AD is requiring inspection of the fan hub, unless of course this joining shaft is considered to be part of the fan hub, or if the inaccessible EA document is more clear.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:57 pm

smithbs wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Interesting tweet from "Captain Dave" (@DaveWallsworth), a BA A380 captain, with notes on how a 3 engine ferry is done on A380 and some Q&A follow ons.


Interesting information. I would have had serious doubts you could take off on three engines due to the thrust asymmetry, even if you are light-weight. I'm wondering if the outer engine on the good wing has to be thrust limited so far as the rudder can correct - ie, a 2.5 engine takeoff? Or would you get rolling on two engines and then introduce the third asymmetric engine as you get rudder authority with speed?

He does mention you start 5M to one side of the center line (presumably so you can allow for some drift to the 'weak' side), and says a certain sequence is followed in applying thrust, but doesn't tell us much about what that sequence is.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:10 pm

Image
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:20 pm

smithbs wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Interesting tweet from "Captain Dave" (@DaveWallsworth), a BA A380 captain, with notes on how a 3 engine ferry is done on A380 and some Q&A follow ons.


Interesting information. I would have had serious doubts you could take off on three engines due to the thrust asymmetry, even if you are light-weight. I'm wondering if the outer engine on the good wing has to be thrust limited so far as the rudder can correct - ie, a 2.5 engine takeoff? Or would you get rolling on two engines and then introduce the third asymmetric engine as you get rudder authority with speed?


I would imagine there are good safeguards built into such a 3-engine take-off. Wouldn`t such a take-off been part of
the certification process to be certain it was possible in a safe manner?

I could even see "Captain Dave" volunteering for such a mission. Let`s face it, doing such a thing would bring a little extra
excitement to his usual flying experience, & would such a flight ( so long as it was completed ) be a nice addition to his CV :)
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:21 pm

smithbs wrote:
Interesting information. I would have had serious doubts you could take off on three engines due to the thrust asymmetry, even if you are light-weight. I'm wondering if the outer engine on the good wing has to be thrust limited so far as the rudder can correct - ie, a 2.5 engine takeoff? Or would you get rolling on two engines and then introduce the third asymmetric engine as you get rudder authority with speed?


The procedure essentially entails idle thrust on the outer engine until around 80 kts so that the rudder can have effectiveness then thrust is slowly increased while maintaining directional control so that full thrust on the outer engine is only achieved above Vmcg.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:31 pm

So when is the ferry flight scheduled to take place?
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:50 pm

speedbored wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Would be interesting to see where that is in the cut-away drawing I posted above


I think it is probably roughly like this:
Image


one step further forward afaics? ( ps: probably not )
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:51 pm

speedbored wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Would be interesting to see where that is in the cut-away drawing I posted above


I think it is probably roughly like this:
Image


I`m no engineer for sure, & my thinking will probably get shot-down, but the part nearest the central shaft which clearly
shows it`s broken, & which some on these pages suggest probable cause for failure, due to it`s modest diameter isn`t
it less likely that this be a cause of the problem, but more as a result of a problem forward of it, be it blades ( my theory
when I first saw it ) or at least a larger diameter component, that would ultimately exert far more centrifugal force or energy?
It`s been suggested a blade couldn`t cause such an outcome, but if said blade or multiples were ingested in a certain way,
particularly with the flying conditions, could you be certain to rule it out? I`d have thought the front fan blades would have
been the part(s) exerting the most energy by some margin, certainly ahead of the core at least.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:00 pm

Revelation wrote:
Interesting tweet from "Captain Dave" (@DaveWallsworth), a BA A380 captain, with notes on how a 3 engine ferry is done on A380 and some Q&A follow ons.

I'm loving the fact that despite the idea of a 3-engine ferry flight being discussed way back on this thread, it has taken two full weeks and 537 posts before anybody mentions the word "asymmetric".
Oh, hang on, that's not strictly true - somebody threw it into their post a couple of Saturday's ago,
...but tbh that guy doesn't really have a clue - he's not even a real pilot! :shakehead:
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:07 pm

Tedd wrote:
I could even see "Captain Dave" volunteering for such a mission. Let`s face it, doing such a thing would bring a little extra
excitement to his usual flying experience, & would such a flight ( so long as it was completed ) be a nice addition to his CV :)


Yes, in the comments part of https://twitter.com/DaveWallsworth/stat ... 1278566400 he says he'd find it interesting.

As for being part of the flight where the engine failed:

Edward J. Casey‏ @achs_fred Oct 10
Replying to @DaveWallsworth @airfrance
Have u ever had an engine failure on the line with the A380 ?

Captain Dave‏ @DaveWallsworth Oct 12
No. And I don’t want one either!! It means paperwork!! :-)
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It is a deadly cancer on American society
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That is impervious to evidence

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