New Zealand Aviation Thread - October 2017

qf789 · Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:31 pm

Welcome to the October edition of the New Zealand Aviation Thread. Please continue to add your comments below. Link to September edition viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1372587

PA515 · Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:43 am

Air NZ 77W ZK-OKS arrived back from SIN last night as NZ6018 and ZK-OKP has just departed for SIN as NZ6011, so ZK-OKQ will be the last to be refitted.

PA515

NZ321 · Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:02 am

What is happening to the old seats? Will they be dumped or has an airline expressed interest?

planemanofnz · Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:13 am

Hi all,

I only recently re-joined this forum after a number of years.

What happened to previously frequent posters like NZ1, Koruman, 777ER and others?

I particularly miss Koruman's posts about potential PPT and HNL hubs! :lol:

Cheers,

C.

QF744ER · Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:16 am

Is there any truth to the story on radio here in Perth that Air NZ was looking at AKL-PER-LHR flights?

Apologies if this has been discussed in previous threads?

planemanofnz · Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:22 am

QF744ER wrote:
Is there any truth to the story on radio here in Perth that Air NZ was looking at AKL-PER-LHR flights?

Apologies if this has been discussed in previous threads?

This was discussed in last month's thread - the short answer is that there is no truth to these rumours.

QF can only just do PER-LHR on a 236 seat 787-900, whereas NZ's lowest density 787-900 layout will have 275 seats.

In addition, NZ's main reason for continuing to operate to LHR is not for AKL-LHR traffic (which it routes via SIN and other hubs on partners), but rather, to pick up high-yielding local traffic on LAX-LHR - a market in which NZ has built up a name for itself over several decades. Replacing LAX-LHR with PER-LHR (which would have to be the case, as NZ's other LHR slots were recently sold to CX) would not align with this strategy.

Cheers,

C.

NZ321 · Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:35 am

planemanofnz wrote:
QF744ER wrote:
Is there any truth to the story on radio here in Perth that Air NZ was looking at AKL-PER-LHR flights?

Apologies if this has been discussed in previous threads?

This was discussed in last month's thread - the short answer is that there is no truth to these rumours.

QF can only just do PER-LHR on a 236 seat 787-900, whereas NZ's lowest density 787-900 layout will have 275 seats.

In addition, NZ's main reason for continuing to operate to LHR is not for AKL-LHR traffic (which it routes via SIN and other hubs on partners), but rather, to pick up high-yielding local traffic on LAX-LHR - a market in which NZ has built up a name for itself over several decades. Replacing LAX-LHR with PER-LHR (which would have to be the case, as NZ's other LHR slots were recently sold to CX) would not align with this strategy.

Cheers,

C.

So, what then are the loadings AKl-LHR via LAX? How many passengers continue through? While I understand that there is a body of STAR alliance flyers in London and Los Angeles who like to use NZ over other carriers, I find it hard to believe that the vast proportion of traffic LAX-LHR would be LAX originating passengers. Do we have any statistics?

PA515 · Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:48 am

NZ321 wrote:
What is happening to the old seats? Will they be dumped or has an airline expressed interest?

Doubt you will see them on 'Trade Me' or sold locally. Some of the 744 First Class seats ended up in undignified places, like backyard grandstands etc, and were always referred to as Air New Zealand seats. Naturally Air NZ was not impressed. Not worth the negative publicity.

PA515

qf789 · Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:00 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
Hi all,

I only recently re-joined this forum after a number of years.

What happened to previously frequent posters like NZ1, Koruman, 777ER and others?

I particularly miss Koruman's posts about potential PPT and HNL hubs!

Cheers,

C.

Both NZ1 and 777ER are still around, they are both head moderators so they do a lot of work behind the scenes. NZ1 doesn't post much now and 777ER does pop in from time to time

PA515 · Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:26 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
I particularly miss Koruman's posts about potential PPT and HNL hubs

Koruman (now Nouflyer) is still around but does not post that often. Possibly too busy with work (books are closed).

http://lakesiderooms.com.au/team/dr-david-furrows

PA515

NZ321 · Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:17 pm

I miss both NZ 1 and Koruman
The forum has not been the same without them

aerokiwi · Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:37 pm

Does anyone know how the All Blacks travelled to and from Argentina for the game this weekend? I'd have thought maybe NZ would put a 77W on but looks like it's all 787 - do they simply split their travel (I'm assuming they go business), in which case quite a gap between NZ flights, or do they go with LATAM and Qantas too?

mariner · Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:41 pm

NZ321 wrote:
So, what then are the loadings AKl-LHR via LAX? How many passengers continue through? While I understand that there is a body of STAR alliance flyers in London and Los Angeles who like to use NZ over other carriers, I find it hard to believe that the vast proportion of traffic LAX-LHR would be LAX originating passengers. Do we have any statistics?

I have no statistics, only anecdotal information.

My best friend in Los Angeles is from a very prestigious family, an older woman of some money (inherited) and alimony (fought for - LOL). She lives well but she flies Air NZ to London because they offer good deals in business class.

She put me on to her travel agent, and it was quite true, they could get me good deals on Air NZ and so I discovered there's a while mob of 'em, large numbers of people in LA who earn darn good money just not enough money to fly first class - second tier Hollywood, names rather than stars - who want to look like they earn more than they do. Accent and attitude on the airline also have something to do with it, giving a slightly exotic (to Americans) flavour.

Virgin Atlantic gets some of it, too - they do a lot off deals to fly (second tier) movie people to London, and JetBlue, the US airline, tapped into a similar crowd when it first set up in LA, for domestic travel.

mariner

ZKOXA · Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:18 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
Does anyone know how the All Blacks travelled to and from Argentina for the game this weekend? I'd have thought maybe NZ would put a 77W on but looks like it's all 787 - do they simply split their travel (I'm assuming they go business), in which case quite a gap between NZ flights, or do they go with LATAM and Qantas too?

ZK-OKQ was used to take them to Argentina about a week ago. It operated NZ30 on the 22nd of September.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ30

ZKOXA

LamboAston · Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:17 pm

PlanemanofNZ, from the last thread, on the sign in AIT, it says up to 737-300. I'm not sure how they'd handle customs and immigration - you can walk straight from the street to the apron, and only have an openable gate to the apron to stop you. Fuel wise, it is all containerised and shipped in a couple of times a month. There was only a single container at the airport as far as I could see. There is also only a single fire engine, which I think might also be the only one on the island. It was used to deliver water to where we were staying and took a couple of women back to the airport, with bags and a firefighter on the roof.

LamboAston · Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:22 pm

ZKOXA wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
Does anyone know how the All Blacks travelled to and from Argentina for the game this weekend? I'd have thought maybe NZ would put a 77W on but looks like it's all 787 - do they simply split their travel (I'm assuming they go business), in which case quite a gap between NZ flights, or do they go with LATAM and Qantas too?

ZK-OKQ was used to take them to Argentina about a week ago. It operated NZ30 on the 22nd of September.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ30

ZKOXA

How are they getting back?

LamboAston · Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:32 pm

Also, NZL has undertaken customer flights, and is estimated for delivery on October 5th.

ZK-NBT · Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:55 pm

LamboAston wrote:
ZKOXA wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
Does anyone know how the All Blacks travelled to and from Argentina for the game this weekend? I'd have thought maybe NZ would put a 77W on but looks like it's all 787 - do they simply split their travel (I'm assuming they go business), in which case quite a gap between NZ flights, or do they go with LATAM and Qantas too?

ZK-OKQ was used to take them to Argentina about a week ago. It operated NZ30 on the 22nd of September.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ30

ZKOXA

How are they getting back?

They are going to South Africa, usually they come back from there via PER I think.

planemanofnz · Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:00 am

aerokiwi wrote:
Does anyone know how the All Blacks travelled to and from Argentina for the game this weekend? I'd have thought maybe NZ would put a 77W on but looks like it's all 787 - do they simply split their travel (I'm assuming they go business), in which case quite a gap between NZ flights, or do they go with LATAM and Qantas too?

Yes, they do fly Business Class (check out the linked social media posts below).

As ZKOXA pointed out, they traveled on a 777-300ER to EZE.

Note the 777 (and not 787) overhead bins in this photo posted from the flight by Rieko Ioane (an All Black): https://www.instagram.com/p/BZVf6c9g_qK ... iekoioane_.

ZK-NBT wrote:
They are going to South Africa, usually they come back from there via PER I think.

New Zealand Rugby (not just the All Blacks, but Super Rugby too) has been known in the past to use a mixture of QF via SYD and SA via PER, with the players regularly posting on social media from these flights - for example:

- QF: https://www.instagram.com/p/BUV7eIlDLLv ... tuungafasi.
- SA: https://www.instagram.com/p/BUqWkaHhdTR ... aea.fifita.

Cheers,

C.

Sylus · Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:40 am

I see PR used an A333 on today's AKL-CNS-MNL. Testing the waters for direct or will that be an A343?

ZK-NBT · Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:42 am

Sylus wrote:
I see PR used an A333 on today's AKL-CNS-MNL. Testing the waters for direct or will that be an A343?

They did last week as well due to the fuel shortage. I think they probably planned to do it for 2 weeks or so, there is meant to be another one on Friday.

The non stop will be a 343 atleast initially, the 343's won't be around that much longer, I think some of the newer 333's should be able to do AKL-MNL with a decent load.

NZ321 · Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:40 am

Anyone get a pic of the PR A333?

qf789 · Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:15 pm

MH to use A332 to AKL in early 2018, I would say either Feb or March

https://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-airli ... o-auckland

Devilfish · Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:29 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
The non stop will be a 343 at least initially, the 343's won't be around that much longer, I think some of the newer 333's should be able to do AKL-MNL with a decent load.

I think an A332 is better suited capacity wise, but it's not very likely that PR would lease in at least a pair for just this one route when the A333 can do it with minimal difference in operating cost.

NZ321 wrote:
Anyone get a pic of the PR A333?

There's one in the data base.....

.....but no visual reference for the airport...just the captions.

ZK-NBT · Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:26 am

Agree the A332 would be better capacity wise for PR to AKL, MH going A332 as well, they have less J than the A333 but overall about the same capacity and uplift more freight.

smi0006 · Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:28 am

Hi guys,

Noted on the NZ instagram they have a four image post promoting Rio -‘This place is considered to be the most passionate city, where fiery Samba music plays on the street and the hereby scent of sizzling meat wafts from its many churrascarias, where in the world are we? #AirNZFindMe’

Unusual I thought for an airline to promote a destination they don’t fly to, is this a teaser for an upcoming announcement, or to build awareness of connection opportunities ex-EZE and the broader SA market? Should have probs mentioned connections if that was the case.

planemanofnz · Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:34 am

smi0006 wrote:
Hi guys,

Noted on the NZ instagram they have a four image post promoting Rio -‘This place is considered to be the most passionate city, where fiery Samba music plays on the street and the hereby scent of sizzling meat wafts from its many churrascarias, where in the world are we? #AirNZFindMe’

Unusual I thought for an airline to promote a destination they don’t fly to, is this a teaser for an upcoming announcement, or to build awareness of connection opportunities ex-EZE and the broader SA market? Should have probs mentioned connections if that was the case.

My gut tells me that NZ would not fly to GIG - if anything, I would see LIM first (given the proximity, and the Star Alliance hub) and GRU second (given the size of the market), before GIG.

Further, I would have thought that ORD would have been announced, before any further Latin American expansion?

I do not see NZ flying to Brazil via EZE, so this would have to be a non-stop flight - AFAIK, there would be performance issues with NZ's current equipment, but I might be incorrect.

Cheers,

C.

Deepinsider · Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:39 am

NZ not shy to talk long range (ORD, JFK, etc)
Who would say which market, Argentina or Brazil
is actually the most tempting, also bear in mind
Star Alliance connections, pretty thin at EZE?
.

NZ321 · Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:32 am

planemanofnz wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Hi guys,

Noted on the NZ instagram they have a four image post promoting Rio -‘This place is considered to be the most passionate city, where fiery Samba music plays on the street and the hereby scent of sizzling meat wafts from its many churrascarias, where in the world are we? #AirNZFindMe’

Unusual I thought for an airline to promote a destination they don’t fly to, is this a teaser for an upcoming announcement, or to build awareness of connection opportunities ex-EZE and the broader SA market? Should have probs mentioned connections if that was the case.

My gut tells me that NZ would not fly to GIG - if anything, I would see LIM first (given the proximity, and the Star Alliance hub) and GRU second (given the size of the market), before GIG.

Further, I would have thought that ORD would have been announced, before any further Latin American expansion?

I do not see NZ flying to Brazil via EZE, so this would have to be a non-stop flight - AFAIK, there would be performance issues with NZ's current equipment, but I might be incorrect.

Cheers,

C.

Yes I agree with Lima over GIG. GRU also warrants a direct service.

Lima is interesting geographically - but some connections from LIM could be problematic according to current schedules and Avianca and NZ would need to align timings to some destinations - BOG, MDE, GYE and UIO all leave mid morning while GRU GIG and SCL leave late evening. Copa has plenty of connections to PTY. Avianca Brazil and Star Alliance presently have no direct flights from EZE to GRU or GIG. Lima metro population is 10 million and Guayaquil and Quito about 10 million between them. At present getting to Peru, Ecuador, Columbia, Panama is not easy from NZ or Australia or SE Asia - involves a significant diversion via LAX or via SCL and flights from LAX south are mostly not on Star Alliance. Opportunity here I think.

xiaotung · Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:50 am

smi0006 wrote:
Hi guys,

Noted on the NZ instagram they have a four image post promoting Rio -‘This place is considered to be the most passionate city, where fiery Samba music plays on the street and the hereby scent of sizzling meat wafts from its many churrascarias, where in the world are we? #AirNZFindMe’

Unusual I thought for an airline to promote a destination they don’t fly to, is this a teaser for an upcoming announcement, or to build awareness of connection opportunities ex-EZE and the broader SA market? Should have probs mentioned connections if that was the case.

If GIG was on the radar, it would not be such a bad idea to fly there via EZE just like their Star partners TK and ET. Luxon has said they are thinking about GRU but like New York, it will be a destination for the new aircraft. ORD or GIG via EZE is doable with existing fleet.

planemanofnz · Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:50 am

NZ321 wrote:
Yes I agree with Lima over GIG. GRU also warrants a direct service.

Lima is interesting geographically - but some connections from LIM could be problematic according to current schedules and Avianca and NZ would need to align timings to some destinations - BOG, MDE, GYE and UIO all leave mid morning while GRU GIG and SCL leave late evening. Copa has plenty of connections to PTY. Avianca Brazil and Star Alliance presently have no direct flights from EZE to GRU or GIG. Lima metro population is 10 million and Guayaquil and Quito about 10 million between them. At present getting to Peru, Ecuador, Columbia, Panama is not easy from NZ or Australia or SE Asia - involves a significant diversion via LAX or via SCL and flights from LAX south are mostly not on Star Alliance. Opportunity here I think.

Basically, there is a gap in NZ's network between LAX in the North, and EZE in the South - NZ have a few options in the coming years, in addressing this:

- MEX - strong destination appeal, but no Star Alliance hub

- PTY - Star Alliance hub, but no strong destination appeal

- LIM - strong destination appeal, and Star Alliance hub

I agree with you that LIM has to be the clear winner here, but I have two hesitations:

1. To what degree would AV re-time its flights for NZ? From what I understand, AR did not re-time many of its flights at EZE, for NZ.

2. Is it true that, being shorter than AKL - IAH, AKL - LIM would not have any performance issues if NZ's 777s or 787s were used?

Cheers,

C.

NZ321 · Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:25 pm

Actually, AV may not have to go too far. They could with a few minor adjustments retain a mid morning bank of flights to all destinations and adjust Brazil (GRU and GIG) to mid morning. It works. I looked at parallel timings on Great Circle Mapper and adjusted them - so flight times approximate only.

NZ could operate a schedule like:

AKL-LIM (about 12 hr 15) Dep 1500 arr 0915
LIM-AKL (about 13 hr 55) Dep 1115 arr 1910

That covers all the destinations I mentioned above.

NZ could then add an A320 / A321 evening departure from AKL to MEL, SYD, BNE. This is something that is also somewhat lacking at the moment - a service that gets people home around 10pm to Australia from NZ. Would be better if this flight had a business class or space plus option at the front for weary travellers, but the connections work. Such a schedule also then connects with NZ late evening flights to AKL-Asia.

A late evening departure from LIM to AKL would mean the plane is sitting on the ground in LIM all day. And it possible doesn't work so well for AV in terms of utilisation from the look of it.

Zkpilot · Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:26 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Yes I agree with Lima over GIG. GRU also warrants a direct service.

Lima is interesting geographically - but some connections from LIM could be problematic according to current schedules and Avianca and NZ would need to align timings to some destinations - BOG, MDE, GYE and UIO all leave mid morning while GRU GIG and SCL leave late evening. Copa has plenty of connections to PTY. Avianca Brazil and Star Alliance presently have no direct flights from EZE to GRU or GIG. Lima metro population is 10 million and Guayaquil and Quito about 10 million between them. At present getting to Peru, Ecuador, Columbia, Panama is not easy from NZ or Australia or SE Asia - involves a significant diversion via LAX or via SCL and flights from LAX south are mostly not on Star Alliance. Opportunity here I think.

Basically, there is a gap in NZ's network between LAX in the North, and EZE in the South - NZ have a few options in the coming years, in addressing this:

- MEX - strong destination appeal, but no Star Alliance hub

- PTY - Star Alliance hub, but no strong destination appeal

- LIM - strong destination appeal, and Star Alliance hub

I agree with you that LIM has to be the clear winner here, but I have two hesitations:

1. To what degree would AV re-time its flights for NZ? From what I understand, AR did not re-time many of its flights at EZE, for NZ.

2. Is it true that, being shorter than AKL - IAH, AKL - LIM would not have any performance issues if NZ's 777s or 787s were used?

Cheers,

C.

LIM definitely high up the list! AV should in theory be more open to having at least some connecting flights with NZ especially Northbound.
I think if NZ can get LIM, EZE, GRU/GIG, going then they could then also muscle in on SCL and effectively own Asia/Australasia - South America. This would also allow more Asia (destinations/frequencies) too. Between South America, Asia, North America, NZ could in theory double long haul capacity within 6 years compared to 2013 (ie a decade). Exciting times.

NZ321 · Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:27 pm

The other thing is that NZ code shares with SQ and CX and their flights into AKL connect nicely in the other direction

NZ321 · Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:31 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Yes I agree with Lima over GIG. GRU also warrants a direct service.

Lima is interesting geographically - but some connections from LIM could be problematic according to current schedules and Avianca and NZ would need to align timings to some destinations - BOG, MDE, GYE and UIO all leave mid morning while GRU GIG and SCL leave late evening. Copa has plenty of connections to PTY. Avianca Brazil and Star Alliance presently have no direct flights from EZE to GRU or GIG. Lima metro population is 10 million and Guayaquil and Quito about 10 million between them. At present getting to Peru, Ecuador, Columbia, Panama is not easy from NZ or Australia or SE Asia - involves a significant diversion via LAX or via SCL and flights from LAX south are mostly not on Star Alliance. Opportunity here I think.

Basically, there is a gap in NZ's network between LAX in the North, and EZE in the South - NZ have a few options in the coming years, in addressing this:

- MEX - strong destination appeal, but no Star Alliance hub

- PTY - Star Alliance hub, but no strong destination appeal

- LIM - strong destination appeal, and Star Alliance hub

I agree with you that LIM has to be the clear winner here, but I have two hesitations:

1. To what degree would AV re-time its flights for NZ? From what I understand, AR did not re-time many of its flights at EZE, for NZ.

2. Is it true that, being shorter than AKL - IAH, AKL - LIM would not have any performance issues if NZ's 777s or 787s were used?

Cheers,

C.

LIM definitely high up the list! AV should in theory be more open to having at least some connecting flights with NZ especially Northbound.
I think if NZ can get LIM, EZE, GRU/GIG, going then they could then also muscle in on SCL and effectively own Asia/Australasia - South America. This would also allow more Asia (destinations/frequencies) too. Between South America, Asia, North America, NZ could in theory double long haul capacity within 6 years compared to 2013 (ie a decade). Exciting times.

Yes I agree - exciting opportunities and ones that don't work so well for QF / LA direct to Australia. LIM-SYD is very long west-bound and QF ULR is spoken for I think for quite a while with said plans. Plus The northern part of South America is so difficult to get to from NZ and Australia and SE Asia. Worth pursuing IMHO.

planemanofnz · Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:33 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
LIM definitely high up the list! AV should in theory be more open to having at least some connecting flights with NZ especially Northbound.
I think if NZ can get LIM, EZE, GRU/GIG, going then they could then also muscle in on SCL and effectively own Asia/Australasia - South America. This would also allow more Asia (destinations/frequencies) too. Between South America, Asia, North America, NZ could in theory double long haul capacity within 6 years compared to 2013 (ie a decade). Exciting times.

IMO, we'll see LIM first, with the current equipment able to reach there.

Once A350s or 777Xs arrive, then we'll see GRU - my only hesitation with GRU though, is the extent to which GRU will damage the EZE service.

I do not see SCL - if there's one thing we know about NZ, it's that it hates competing in established markets, and IMO, it wouldn't bother touching QF/LA territory.

If, and only if EZE, LIM and GRU are established and sustainable, then I would see MEX as being the next logical Latin American destination - not SCL.

Cheers,

C.

DavidByrne · Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:09 pm

NZ321 wrote:
NZ could operate a schedule like:

AKL-LIM (about 12 hr 15) Dep 1500 arr 0915
LIM-AKL (about 13 hr 55) Dep 1115 arr 1910

I can't see any such new flights operating outside the established early evening bank outward and early morning bank inward. (Unless there was a new bank added outward at around 5pm for South America, with limited connections from MEL, SYD, BNE and facilitating better connections from retimed services from Asia.) A new bank inward arriving at around 7pm would be limited to "close" American destinations only because the timing is otherwise too tight. Also, any delays whatsoever would mean SYD-bound pax would have to overnight in AKL because of the curfew and the carrier would end up with an aircraft on the wrong side of the Tasman at the start of the next day - hugely expensive for the airline and the pax. Much better in my view to bolster the existing banks than create a new one.

NZ321 · Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:22 pm

NZ operated NZ 3 for a while did it not with a departure around 4pm?

axio · Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:54 pm

NZ321 wrote:
NZ operated NZ 3 for a while did it not with a departure around 4pm?

I think you sometimes see NZ3/4 over NZ summer (although I didn't find anything this upcoming summer)

You're right about a 4pm departure: I found an old example of NZ4 from February 2016 which ran AKL-LAX 1600-0715. What I couldn't find was NZ3 to see if it did an immediate return e.g. LAX/AKL 0840-1830.

ZKNCI · Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:24 pm

Just going back to the thread from the start of this year.... remember the talk of where the ex-Air NZ/NAC/TEAL survivors are...

ZKNCI wrote:
Just adding a bit to the count from the previous thread regarding surviving ex-Air NZ/TEAL aircraft in case anyone else is interested.

It looks like DC-8 ZK-NZC (PP-TPC) was still in Manaus as of 21 Sept 2016 (from google maps imagery and doing a bit of googling for photos to check which location the frame was last seen in). Still an abandoned freighter far from its original home.

Looks like the DC-8 stands a good chance of coming home soon!
https://www.facebook.com/bringourbirdshome/videos/1672986626058500/

ZK-NBT · Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:12 pm

NZ321 wrote:
NZ operated NZ 3 for a while did it not with a departure around 4pm?

They had NZ4 AKL-LAX at 1600 in the past, NZ3 left LAX late though 2300ish. Only for a year or 2 in the late 90's early 00's did NZ3 leave LAX at 1100ish return to AKL around 2100.

They won't do that for a South American flight with so many Australians unable to connect. They could create an earlier departure bank ex AKL of 1600 though maybe depends on growth I think.

DavidByrne · Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:09 am

NZ3/4 haven't operated since AKL-IAH began in my recollection.

DavidByrne · Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:13 am

planemanofnz wrote:
IMO, we'll see LIM first, with the current equipment able to reach there

Much though I'd like to see AKL-LIM, I doubt we'll see that for a number of years. The American destinations that, to my recollection, NZ has mentioned as possibilities or confirmed as having been under study are: DEN, ORD, NYC (EWR presumably), LAS and GRU. Never say never, but I just don't see LIM for a while.

ZK-NBT · Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:56 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ3/4 haven't operated since AKL-IAH began in my recollection.

I can't remember exactly, it ran seasonally for years in NW sometimes NS as well for a few weeks, it ran alongside an additional 2-3 weekly SFO services atleast 1 year, the SFO services went for 2 NW periods DEC-FEB. That was 2014/15 and 15/16 then UA returned.

ZK-NBT · Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:59 am

DavidByrne wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
IMO, we'll see LIM first, with the current equipment able to reach there

Much though I'd like to see AKL-LIM, I doubt we'll see that for a number of years. The American destinations that, to my recollection, NZ has mentioned as possibilities or confirmed as having been under study are: DEN, ORD, NYC (EWR presumably), LAS and GRU. Never say never, but I just don't see LIM for a while.

I think by the time they build EZE to daily, it will be anothe 2-3 years and another 4-5 years before that's daily year round, I'm not hugely convinced we will see another South American route before thy happens by which time they will have either 350's or 77X's that can do GRU.

zkncj · Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:40 am

ZKNCI wrote:
Just going back to the thread from the start of this year.... remember the talk of where the ex-Air NZ/NAC/TEAL survivors are...

ZKNCI wrote:
Just adding a bit to the count from the previous thread regarding surviving ex-Air NZ/TEAL aircraft in case anyone else is interested.

It looks like DC-8 ZK-NZC (PP-TPC) was still in Manaus as of 21 Sept 2016 (from google maps imagery and doing a bit of googling for photos to check which location the frame was last seen in). Still an abandoned freighter far from its original home.

Looks like the DC-8 stands a good chance of coming home soon!
https://www.facebook.com/bringourbirdshome/videos/1672986626058500/

Find it weird that NZ seems to do very little to help this come to life? QF has donated 2 747s now NZ has done nothing.

NZ321 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:17 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
NZ could operate a schedule like:

AKL-LIM (about 12 hr 15) Dep 1500 arr 0915
LIM-AKL (about 13 hr 55) Dep 1115 arr 1910

I can't see any such new flights operating outside the established early evening bank outward and early morning bank inward. (Unless there was a new bank added outward at around 5pm for South America, with limited connections from MEL, SYD, BNE and facilitating better connections from retimed services from Asia.) A new bank inward arriving at around 7pm would be limited to "close" American destinations only because the timing is otherwise too tight. Also, any delays whatsoever would mean SYD-bound pax would have to overnight in AKL because of the curfew and the carrier would end up with an aircraft on the wrong side of the Tasman at the start of the next day - hugely expensive for the airline and the pax. Much better in my view to bolster the existing banks than create a new one.

Actually a 6pm or similar departure from AKL could work in both directions for connections to all discussed destinations in South America and connects better at AKLon the return from a mid evening departure from LIM arriving AKL early morning. Would require reworking of AV schedules to match.

Will be interesting to see how things unfold.

NZ321 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:18 pm

Would love to see the DC8 repatriated to NZ

Hope this happens

NZ321 · Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:23 pm

Any word on NZL delivery?

ZK-NBT · Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:30 pm

NZ321 wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
NZ could operate a schedule like:

AKL-LIM (about 12 hr 15) Dep 1500 arr 0915
LIM-AKL (about 13 hr 55) Dep 1115 arr 1910

I can't see any such new flights operating outside the established early evening bank outward and early morning bank inward. (Unless there was a new bank added outward at around 5pm for South America, with limited connections from MEL, SYD, BNE and facilitating better connections from retimed services from Asia.) A new bank inward arriving at around 7pm would be limited to "close" American destinations only because the timing is otherwise too tight. Also, any delays whatsoever would mean SYD-bound pax would have to overnight in AKL because of the curfew and the carrier would end up with an aircraft on the wrong side of the Tasman at the start of the next day - hugely expensive for the airline and the pax. Much better in my view to bolster the existing banks than create a new one.

Actually a 6pm or similar departure from AKL could work in both directions for connections to all discussed destinations in South America and connects better at AKLon the return from a mid evening departure from LIM arriving AKL early morning. Would require reworking of AV schedules to match.

Will be interesting to see how things unfold.

IAH departed at 1830 the first season it operated NW, but was pushed back to 1920 which allows ADL and PER to also connect, sure its 1600 in NS, I think that more so it doesn't arrive to late, EZE departs at 2015 arrives at 1650 NW, arrives more like 1500 NS. I'd have thought they would change EZE to depart earlier if what you are saying was the case.

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