More F9 Adds at PHL - JAX, MEM, MSN, & OMA

OslPhlWasChi · Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:57 pm

Announced on Sep 26, F9 is adding more PHL service to JAX, MEM, MSN, & OMA.
MSN and OMA are both currently unserved markets.

JAX - 4x weekly as of Feb 14, 2018
MEM - 4x weekly as of April 9, 2018
MSN - 3x weekly as of April 8, 2018
OMA - 4x weekly as of April 9, 2018

All new service is on A320 aircraft.

More info here: http://www.phl.org/Press%20Releases/Fro ... t%2026.pdf

I have not seen these announcements elsewhere but someone please correct me if these were already reported.
Also, the PHL announcement does not say whether these are anticipated to be seasonal or year round but based on other routes and start dates, my guess is JAX will be year round and the rest will be summer seasonal

loisencroach · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:04 pm

I think this pretty much guarantees that the seasonal UST-PHL flight goes bye-bye.

MrNuke · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:08 pm

OMA in addition to PHL also had LAS and SFO added by F9 this morning.

lavalampluva · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:09 pm

Did F9 just have a large aircraft purchase? I'm not sure where they're getting all the a/c. Or did they have a large cutback in other areas?

evank516 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:13 pm

JAX-PHL huh? Wonder if that's the writing on the wall for the seasonal UST-PHL flight?

Runway28L · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:15 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
Did F9 just have a large aircraft purchase? I'm not sure where they're getting all the a/c. Or did they have a large cutback in other areas?

I'm sure F9 has cut or is cutting other frequencies/routes around its network that we may haven't seen yet.

From what we've seen, F9 likes to add or drop routes frequently along with adjusting frequencies.

usairways85 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:20 pm

I actually wonder in PHL-JAX is one of those spring break Feb-May routes.

Ever since the DL/NW merger and the closure of MEM, PHL-MEM capacity is probably down well over 75% in the past 15 years.

Frontier14 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:24 pm

Many of these are most likely seasonal to adapt to Frontier's summer and winter route alignments.

Frontier 14

evank516 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:28 pm

Runway28L wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
Did F9 just have a large aircraft purchase? I'm not sure where they're getting all the a/c. Or did they have a large cutback in other areas?

I'm sure F9 has cut or is cutting other frequencies/routes around its network that we may haven't seen yet.

From what we've seen, F9 likes to add or drop routes frequently along with adjusting frequencies.

Here's a few of them I'm sure:
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... x_rou.html

77H · Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:29 pm

I'm surprised it's taken this long to get a PHL-MSN flight and surprised it wasn't AA who offered it. Not sure what that PDEW numbers are but if F9 feels they can make a profit with a 320 than surely there are enough passengers to fill a CRJ/CR7? Especially when accounting for onward connections.

Regardless, good to see MSN get additional service.

WaywardMemphian · Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:03 pm

evank516 wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
Did F9 just have a large aircraft purchase? I'm not sure where they're getting all the a/c. Or did they have a large cutback in other areas?

I'm sure F9 has cut or is cutting other frequencies/routes around its network that we may haven't seen yet.

From what we've seen, F9 likes to add or drop routes frequently along with adjusting frequencies.

Here's a few of them I'm sure:
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... x_rou.html

I see a pattern here, going to markets where Southwest has been slow to grow their presence. The MEM/LAS route is one. WN was charging upward of 300 bucks one way for some weekend Spring Break flights to MCO from MEM and Frontier knocked those down a bit.

I bet we see them re enter IAD hard when the metro line is done in 2019. It becomes perfect for tourist, Air and Space there at Dulles and Arlington on the line as well.

loisencroach · Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:04 pm

I had heard that G4 was going to open MSN a few years back but I guess F9 beat them to it. I wonder if F9 will do MSN-TPA.

usairways85 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:30 pm

77H wrote:
I'm surprised it's taken this long to get a PHL-MSN flight and surprised it wasn't AA who offered it. Not sure what that PDEW numbers are but if F9 feels they can make a profit with a 320 than surely there are enough passengers to fill a CRJ/CR7? Especially when accounting for onward connections.

Regardless, good to see MSN get additional service.

PHL-MSN
2016
Q1 - 33 PDEW
Q2 - 51 PDEW
Q3 - 53 PDEW
Q4 - 47 PDEW

Midwestindy · Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:31 pm

Drop-add-drop-add, this is almost a weekly occurrence for F9....

loisencroach · Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:48 pm

77H wrote:
I'm surprised it's taken this long to get a PHL-MSN flight and surprised it wasn't AA who offered it. Not sure what that PDEW numbers are but if F9 feels they can make a profit with a 320 than surely there are enough passengers to fill a CRJ/CR7? Especially when accounting for onward connections.

Regardless, good to see MSN get additional service.

I think USAirways used to do MSN-PHL but cancelled it around 2004-2005.

flyfresno · Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:52 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Drop-add-drop-add, this is almost a weekly occurrence for F9....

It almost seems like the mentality is "let's try every route we think could even remotely work, and then drop the ones that don't pan out."

flyfresno · Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:55 pm

Where's FAT-LAS?! FrSaMo to complement TuThSu DEN would be perfect (Although doing DEN on Mo We Sa and LAS on Fr Su with a through to DEN would be more ideal).

phluser · Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:56 pm

usairways85 wrote:
I actually wonder in PHL-JAX is one of those spring break Feb-May routes.

It's being offered in the summer as well. It likely has the most staying power even if seasonal (e.g. not serviced in January) and it's more or less an airport change of UST to JAX.

As for PHL-MSN, on one hand, I think it's admirable that F9 is covering it while AA doesn't and who can complain about the low fares as well.

However, F9 has a track record of starting something experimental and even if seasonal, it doesn't return the following year. I bet some teenagers heading to college will consider U. Wisconsin or those from Wisconsin considering a school in Philly, and pitch to their parents: "oh, it's not that expensive to fly back home", only for the route to be cancelled the next year. While it's F9's business to decided which routes it wants to offer, there is the pitching of the F9 credit card with all the destinations one gets on every flight, but the destinations have no stability of actually being nonstop destinations the next year.

loisencroach · Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:06 pm

These new routes that would traditionally be legacy spoke routes are interesting. COS-MSP, MSN-PHL, OMA-PHL, etc.

SamThomas · Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:17 pm

I also saw where SFO-DSM was added which is HUGE for us!

gwrudolph · Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:20 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Drop-add-drop-add, this is almost a weekly occurrence for F9....

Ya--I don't know how they get any level of footing or following in a market. Even if they come into a market, you like the price, buy, then like the experience, chances are by the time you go to use them again on that route, they are off to somewhere else . . .

evank516 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:22 pm

Answered my own question. UST is out:

http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/ ... service-st

FSDan · Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:29 pm

77H wrote:
I'm surprised it's taken this long to get a PHL-MSN flight and surprised it wasn't AA who offered it. Not sure what that PDEW numbers are but if F9 feels they can make a profit with a 320 than surely there are enough passengers to fill a CRJ/CR7? Especially when accounting for onward connections.

Regardless, good to see MSN get additional service.

I'm also surprised by MSN-PHL. I'd think this route would do much better on a well-timed AA CR7 with connections on to Europe and the Northeast. Especially since this has to be more of a business market than a leisure market and 3x weekly won't be very competitive with that crowd.

JRL3289 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:41 pm

Cue AA entering OMA-PHL... seems like an odd market for F9 to begin with, and one that would lean more business than leisure anyway.

WaywardMemphian · Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:52 pm

JRL3289 wrote:
Cue AA entering OMA-PHL... seems like an odd market for F9 to begin with, and one that would lean more business than leisure anyway.

AA was already in with MEM/PHL with at least daily service. I was kinda shocked on that one, there's other fruit on the MEM tree that seems sweeter.

jetsetter629 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:59 pm

usairways85 wrote:
77H wrote:
I'm surprised it's taken this long to get a PHL-MSN flight and surprised it wasn't AA who offered it. Not sure what that PDEW numbers are but if F9 feels they can make a profit with a 320 than surely there are enough passengers to fill a CRJ/CR7? Especially when accounting for onward connections.

Regardless, good to see MSN get additional service.

PHL-MSN
2016
Q1 - 33 PDEW
Q2 - 51 PDEW
Q3 - 53 PDEW
Q4 - 47 PDEW

Not too bad and certainly could sustain a CR2 daily, especially considering MKE is 5x daily CR2.

AA has recently added Midwest service out of CLT to destinations like OMA, DSM, PIA, MSN, and OKC and would like to see the same out of PHL too

OslPhlWasChi · Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:14 pm

jetsetter629 wrote:
AA has recently added Midwest service out of CLT to destinations like OMA, DSM, PIA, MSN, and OKC and would like to see the same out of PHL too

Agreed. The big Midwestern holes out of PHL by AA to me appear to be OMA, MSN, DSM, OKC, and TUL. Maybe then JAN, LIT, XNA.

usairways85 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:35 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
AA was already in with MEM/PHL with at least daily service. I was kinda shocked on that one, there's other fruit on the MEM tree that seems sweeter.

AA is on PHL-MEM with 2-3 ERJ's a day based on the season. PHL-MEM averages 90-100 PDEW so there might be some room considering AA's flights carry connections.

WaywardMemphian · Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:41 pm

OslPhlWasChi wrote:
jetsetter629 wrote:
AA has recently added Midwest service out of CLT to destinations like OMA, DSM, PIA, MSN, and OKC and would like to see the same out of PHL too

Agreed. The big Midwestern holes out of PHL by AA to me appear to be OMA, MSN, DSM, OKC, and TUL. Maybe then JAN, LIT, XNA.

AA recently launched DCA from XNA, they ain't going to PHL anytime soon with NYC and DCA covered, their TATL will connect via Dallas, Chicago and Charlotte. They serve PHL from Memphis, a short drive away from LIT so no time soon there. LIT would be more of a DCA city with it being a State Capitol but that's in Memphis as well. The two US Senators are basically Western and Northwesten Arkansas products and their main offices are located there as well. LIT hardly has anyone in DC as a product of it being the sole Democratic island in a sea of red.

WaywardMemphian · Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:53 pm

usairways85 wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
AA was already in with MEM/PHL with at least daily service. I was kinda shocked on that one, there's other fruit on the MEM tree that seems sweeter.

AA is on PHL-MEM with 2-3 ERJ's a day based on the season. PHL-MEM averages 90-100 PDEW so there might be some room considering AA's flights carry connections.

According to ANNA Aero, MEM/BOS has a PDEW of a 100+ and there's not a single direct flight. Ft Lauderdale is high up there for MEM and only Allegiant flies it direct. AA has Miami dailis though. I've been waiting for a LAX flight from AA as that is the only Hub they don't fly to Memphis from.

mariner · Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:09 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Drop-add-drop-add, this is almost a weekly occurrence for F9....

Six monthly - LOL.

Since Indigo acquired Frontier, the rule has been a simple one - east-west in summer, north-south in winter.

Some routes - to MCO and LAS for example - may serve both.

mariner

Midwestindy · Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:14 pm

mariner wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Drop-add-drop-add, this is almost a weekly occurrence for F9....

Since Indigo acquired Frontier, the rule has been a simple one - east-west in summer, north-south in winter.

mariner

Yeah, that is very clear, but that doesn't justify the constant route turnover...

mariner · Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:28 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
mariner wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Drop-add-drop-add, this is almost a weekly occurrence for F9....

Since Indigo acquired Frontier, the rule has been a simple one - east-west in summer, north-south in winter.

mariner

Yeah, that is very clear, but that doesn't justify the constant route turnover...

Why does it need a "justification"? No airline has a legal (or moral) obligation to fly somewhere all the time.

And why fly somewhere when there's no traffic?

mariner

WNflyer1523 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:36 pm

I think I found how they can add new routes all the time. They just announced the end of 6 routes out of CLE.
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... x_rou.html
I'd like to see them try out ISP-JAX soon!

PlanesNTrains · Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:36 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
mariner wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Drop-add-drop-add, this is almost a weekly occurrence for F9....

Since Indigo acquired Frontier, the rule has been a simple one - east-west in summer, north-south in winter.

mariner

Yeah, that is very clear, but that doesn't justify the constant route turnover...

I'm still trying to figure out why it matters so much to people? They attract price-conscious consumers, not corporate contract types. They kind of remind me of shopping at Sam's Club or Costco, where sometimes a product we like is carried and then for periods of time it's not - or never again. Bottom line - if the product is available at a good price, we'll buy it, if it's not, we won't. We don't stop shopping at Sam's Club/Costco because they no longer carry a particular product. We'll just get that particular item somewhere else but keep going back for the better prices that they do have.

WaywardMemphian · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:05 pm

They simply mine a market and intice travelers to use it for a season knowing that there will be little repeat biz the following season. Instead offer something new and fresh the following season. There's no way SAN/ TUL lasts, but it may have a stellar run for one season. Retire it for a few seasons and bring it back. It's like McRibs for a limited time at McDonalds, only flight routes. Some are so successful that they stay on the menu.

Dominion301 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:22 pm

evank516 wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
Did F9 just have a large aircraft purchase? I'm not sure where they're getting all the a/c. Or did they have a large cutback in other areas?

I'm sure F9 has cut or is cutting other frequencies/routes around its network that we may haven't seen yet.

From what we've seen, F9 likes to add or drop routes frequently along with adjusting frequencies.

Here's a few of them I'm sure:
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... x_rou.html

I'm confused by that article: "All of the eliminated routes are seasonal, meaning they don't run year-round. The Charlotte route has already ended; the other five routes will end in early October."

Does this meaning they're coming back next year? Were they always seasonal to begin with?

MIflyer12 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:28 pm

flyfresno wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Drop-add-drop-add, this is almost a weekly occurrence for F9....

It almost seems like the mentality is "let's try every route we think could even remotely work, and then drop the ones that don't pan out."

I can't see MEM-PHL lasting six months against AA's (decent) frequency and PHL hub. IMHO that just isn't a route that will see much stimulation from lower fares. AA ought to slash its Basic Economy fare right now.

mariner · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:33 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
I'm confused by that article: "All of the eliminated routes are seasonal, meaning they don't run year-round. The Charlotte route has already ended; the other five routes will end in early October."

Does this meaning they're coming back next year? Were they always seasonal to begin with?

The only surprise to me is ATL - I thought that might go through the winter. But as I said in post #31:

"Since Indigo acquired Frontier, the rule has been a simple one - east-west in summer, north-south in winter."

There are exceptions to it and there are changes. They used to fly DEN-LGA year round, but this coming winter they're doing it as a one-stop through CVG.

mariner

Dominion301 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:43 pm

mariner wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
I'm confused by that article: "All of the eliminated routes are seasonal, meaning they don't run year-round. The Charlotte route has already ended; the other five routes will end in early October."

Does this meaning they're coming back next year? Were they always seasonal to begin with?

The only surprise to me is ATL - I thought that might go through the winter. But as I said in post #31:

"Since Indigo acquired Frontier, the rule has been a simple one - east-west in summer, north-south in winter."

There are exceptions to it and there are changes. They used to fly DEN-LGA year round, but this coming winter they're doing it as a one-stop through CVG.

mariner

What I mean though are these routes gone for good? Reading that sentence makes it sound as if they were launched as year-round services and are now becoming seasonal or were they launched as seasonal and are now eliminated? That sentence in the article leads me to believe it's the former and not the latter.

If it is the former, nobody should be surprised that a non-DEN F9 route is seasonal. In fact, I'd make that assumption for almost everything non-DEN they do from the get-go.

izbtmnhd · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:46 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
I think I found how they can add new routes all the time. They just announced the end of 6 routes out of CLE.
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... x_rou.html
I'd like to see them try out ISP-JAX soon!

Actually if you read the article F9 doesn't announce anything except for picking up a gate at CLE. It's hard to understand if some of the routes are being cut seasonally or for good. I know the SFO cut has to be permanent because of the switch to SJC.

Midwestindy · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:54 pm

mariner wrote:

And why fly somewhere when there's no traffic?

mariner

Your statement is dripping with irony.... :lol:

Midwestindy · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:58 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:
I think I found how they can add new routes all the time. They just announced the end of 6 routes out of CLE.
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... x_rou.html
I'd like to see them try out ISP-JAX soon!

Actually, if you read the article F9 doesn't announce anything except for picking up a gate at CLE. It's hard to understand if some of the routes are being cut seasonally or for good. I know the SFO cut has to be permanent because of the switch to SJC.

CLE-SFO isn't switching to SJC, that is the CVG flight I believe....

mariner · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:59 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
What I mean though are these routes gone for good. Reading that sentence makes it sound as if they were launched as year-round services and are now becoming seasonal or were they launched as seasonal and are now eliminated? That sentence in the article leads me to believe it's the former and not the latter.

If it is the former, nobody should be surprised that a non-DEN F9 route is seasonal. In fact, I'd make that assumption for almost everything non-DEN they do from the get-go.

I can't recall if they ever actually said that the CLE routes were intended as seasonal, but yes, I do make that assumption. If ORD can't support (Frontier) year round service to LAX and SFO, I'd be mightily surprised if CLE could.

Even DEN-CLE is seasonal, so we're back to the rule of thumb - east-west in summer, north-south in winter.

mariner

FWAERJ · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:59 pm

I wonder if F9 could make PHL-SBN work. I know they couldn't make PHL-IND work, and that AA couldn't make PHL-FWA work even with three Fortune 500 firms with a major presence on both ends.

But although they currently don't serve the airport, F9 has a history in SBN that was only halted because of the ULCC transition. Now that it's over, maybe F9 could give SBN another try. And their model would work this time: north-south to fight G4 in the winter and east-west to DEN, PHL, and the like in the summer.

jonhpaul12 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:07 pm

Giving up St. Aug to have awful times on the JAX/PHL route.

JACKSONVILLE (JAX) – PHILADELPHIA (PHL)
F9 0858 Depart JAX: 10:00 p.m. Arrive PHL: 12:12 a.m.
F9 0473 Depart PHL: 4:30 a.m. Arrive JAX: 7:05 a.m.
Frequency: Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday

PlanesNTrains · Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:18 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
mariner wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
I'm confused by that article: "All of the eliminated routes are seasonal, meaning they don't run year-round. The Charlotte route has already ended; the other five routes will end in early October."

Does this meaning they're coming back next year? Were they always seasonal to begin with?

The only surprise to me is ATL - I thought that might go through the winter. But as I said in post #31:

"Since Indigo acquired Frontier, the rule has been a simple one - east-west in summer, north-south in winter."

There are exceptions to it and there are changes. They used to fly DEN-LGA year round, but this coming winter they're doing it as a one-stop through CVG.

mariner

What I mean though are these routes gone for good? Reading that sentence makes it sound as if they were launched as year-round services and are now becoming seasonal or were they launched as seasonal and are now eliminated? That sentence in the article leads me to believe it's the former and not the latter.

If it is the former, nobody should be surprised that a non-DEN F9 route is seasonal. In fact, I'd make that assumption for almost everything non-DEN they do from the get-go.

"Seasonal" could refer to Spring/Summer/Fall/Winter, or, as in life, it could refer to this "season" of life. In other words, they are in the CLE season, then they are in the PHL season, then they are in the MCO season, etc. :-)

11725Flyer · Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:23 pm

loisencroach wrote:
77H wrote:
I'm surprised it's taken this long to get a PHL-MSN flight and surprised it wasn't AA who offered it. Not sure what that PDEW numbers are but if F9 feels they can make a profit with a 320 than surely there are enough passengers to fill a CRJ/CR7? Especially when accounting for onward connections.

Regardless, good to see MSN get additional service.

I think USAirways used to do MSN-PHL but cancelled it around 2004-2005.

We'll most likely see it reappear.

WaywardMemphian · Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:10 pm

Hell, with the oddity of MEM/PHL, why not MEM/CLE.

I'm curious whats on the other end of the MEM/PHL, if anything.

I digging this though, I'm looking at using a combination of Southwest Point's TUL/Den and paying Frontier to Jackson Hole next summer. Then Frontier from Salt Lake to Den and Southwest points back to Tulsa.

phluser · Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:16 pm

FSDan wrote:
77H wrote:
I'm surprised it's taken this long to get a PHL-MSN flight and surprised it wasn't AA who offered it. Not sure what that PDEW numbers are but if F9 feels they can make a profit with a 320 than surely there are enough passengers to fill a CRJ/CR7? Especially when accounting for onward connections.

Regardless, good to see MSN get additional service.

I'm also surprised by MSN-PHL. I'd think this route would do much better on a well-timed AA CR7 with connections on to Europe and the Northeast. Especially since this has to be more of a business market than a leisure market and 3x weekly won't be very competitive with that crowd.

It might get the collegiate, advanced degree leisure crowd, but I'd think MSN-BOS would be a bigger market for that, before MSN-PHL (although F9 doesn't serve BOS).

What is also interesting is F9 will cover PHL-MKE and PHL-MSN next summer on the same days, Sun Tues Thursday next year. I wonder if F9 thought that through, that it might be diluting itself, as some might otherwise have just supported them on PHL-MKE to rent a car to reach Madison.

Both F9 and NK have exited PHL-ORD have WN, UA and AA went ballistic, and PHL-ORD fares have increased, that some might fly to PHL-MKE just to reach Chicago, so PHL-MKE might not get some of that traffic while it splits Wisconsin bound traffic with PHL-MSN.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net