Porter Expands Seasonal MLB Services

Dominion301 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:53 pm

Last Friday, PD announced MLB will be connected nonstop to YOW and YQG on Saturdays from mid-December to the end of March.

This is the 3rd route PD have added at YOW this year! YFC and YSJ have both started in the past two weeks daily.

For YQG, this will be it's first truly credible transborder service. The debacle with National 757s notwithstanding.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/po ... 00433.html

flymco753 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:57 pm

From an Orlando or Melbourne point of sale, this won't bode well for folks wanting to get to Detroit via YQG, so with that I don't think this flight will effect DTW service from MCO, but I do think it's an opportunity for DL to add a weekend MD88 from MLB-DTW.

Dominion301 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:59 pm

flymco753 wrote:
From an Orlando or Melbourne point of sale, this won't bode well for folks wanting to get to Detroit via YQG, so with that I don't think this flight will effect DTW service from MCO, but I do think it's an opportunity for DL to add a weekend MD88 from MLB-DTW.

These new flights will probably be 10% MLB point-of-sale...likely most of whom are Canadian ex-pats living in that part of Florida. This will primarily bring Canadians south.

I remember how back when CanJet still existed as a scheduled airline. One winter, mid-year due to high demand, they increased YHM-MCO to 2x weekly. My friend and I were two of a dozen total pax on the inaugural 2nd weekly MCO-YHM flight. We took advantage of it as we couldn't spend the whole week on vacation. In other words, a max. of 10 pax were Florida-origin pax heading to YHM.

ryan78 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:27 pm

Nice to see Porter finally expanding and trying new things. Seems they've been pretty stagnant with growth over the last few years, this is hopefully a sign of bigger things to come. As for MLB point of sale, yes it will be low but there will be enough demand in peak season to fill those return flights with Canadians flying home.

Personally, I never stay in Florida for more than a week, usually just Thursday to Sunday so that might hurt them a bit being only once a week flights. I checked some prices just before Christmas and found YOW-MCO for $264 CAD return on United with 1hr layover in EWR. Gonna be hard to beat that, plus I would hate to fly that long on a Q400, especially in rows 5-7 right next to the prop.

stlgph · Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:45 pm

Hell, if I lived in Ottawa, compared to that, I'd pay $300 to NOT go through Newark. Porter at least tosses in free wine, beer, and some edible snacks.

Would like to see even more branching out. Still waiting NYC-Montreal

MIAFLLPBIFlyer · Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:46 pm

Fantastic news for MLB!

evank516 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:53 pm

MLB has always managed to really score some interesting air service, but PD is probably the first new carrier that really stuck in many years even if it is only seasonal. Only type of air service they have yet to score is an LCC, but with MCO about an hour away and B6 also flying to DAB I don't see MLB on the short list for other carriers of the sort.

klm617 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:28 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Last Friday, PD announced MLB will be connected nonstop to YOW and YQG on Saturdays from mid-December to the end of March.

This is the 3rd route PD have added at YOW this year! YFC and YSJ have both started in the past two weeks daily.

For YQG, this will be it's first truly credible transborder service. The debacle with National 757s notwithstanding.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/po ... 00433.html

Would be great to see YQG land DY with 2 X weekly summer flights to LGW. Laker did it back in the day with a 707 in the summer.

Dominion301 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:47 pm

ryan78 wrote:
Nice to see Porter finally expanding and trying new things. Seems they've been pretty stagnant with growth over the last few years, this is hopefully a sign of bigger things to come. As for MLB point of sale, yes it will be low but there will be enough demand in peak season to fill those return flights with Canadians flying home.

Personally, I never stay in Florida for more than a week, usually just Thursday to Sunday so that might hurt them a bit being only once a week flights. I checked some prices just before Christmas and found YOW-MCO for $264 CAD return on United with 1hr layover in EWR. Gonna be hard to beat that, plus I would hate to fly that long on a Q400, especially in rows 5-7 right next to the prop.

I'd take that Q400 ride. All PD needs to do is attract 130 pax weekly on both routes for them to succeed. If they do, maybe it'll lead to more non-YTZ transborder flying like a seasonal YOW-MYR.

lavalampluva · Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:56 pm

I still find it amazing that a Q400 has that kind of range!

F27500 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:11 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Last Friday, PD announced MLB will be connected nonstop to YOW and YQG on Saturdays from mid-December to the end of March.

This is the 3rd route PD have added at YOW this year! YFC and YSJ have both started in the past two weeks daily.

For YQG, this will be it's first truly credible transborder service. The debacle with National 757s notwithstanding.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/po ... 00433.html

You call putting a Dash 8 on a nonstop from Canada to Florida "CREDIBLE" ??!

I call it crazy. That's a miserable plane for such a long leg. I can't believe anyone would fly on it.

WNflyer1523 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:20 pm

How could a Dash 8 make it from Canada all the way to Central Florida??? Especially if it has a full load!

flymco753 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:20 pm

klm617 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Last Friday, PD announced MLB will be connected nonstop to YOW and YQG on Saturdays from mid-December to the end of March.

This is the 3rd route PD have added at YOW this year! YFC and YSJ have both started in the past two weeks daily.

For YQG, this will be it's first truly credible transborder service. The debacle with National 757s notwithstanding.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/po ... 00433.html

Would be great to see YQG land DY with 2 X weekly summer flights to LGW. Laker did it back in the day with a 707 in the summer.

That'll effect DTW's LON service. If it's monopolized, and people are already not choosing to fly there, adding YQG to LGW would totally kill DTW's LON service and it may not even be enough for a daily flight.

F27500 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:34 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
How could a Dash 8 make it from Canada all the way to Central Florida??? Especially if it has a full load!

It can't.

klm617 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:45 pm

F27500 wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:
How could a Dash 8 make it from Canada all the way to Central Florida??? Especially if it has a full load!

It can't.

It's not a Dash 8 it's a Q400. Back in the day if you recall everything was flown with piston and turbo prop aircraft aircraft. Air Canada back in the day flew from Toronto to the Caribbean on a Vanguard. YQG-MLB is 987 air miles and the Q400 range is 1000+ miles

MIflyer12 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:01 pm

flymco753 wrote:
From an Orlando or Melbourne point of sale, this won't bode well for folks wanting to get to Detroit via YQG, so with that I don't think this flight will effect DTW service from MCO, but I do think it's an opportunity for DL to add a weekend MD88 from MLB-DTW.

Delta really doesn't do tertiary Florida from DTW: no DAB, MLB, PNS, or ECP. Are you suggesting DL start DTW-MLB just to mess with a Porter Q400 on Windsor-Melbourne? The 757s DTW-MCO fly plenty of SW Ontario Canadians.

flymco753 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:28 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
From an Orlando or Melbourne point of sale, this won't bode well for folks wanting to get to Detroit via YQG, so with that I don't think this flight will effect DTW service from MCO, but I do think it's an opportunity for DL to add a weekend MD88 from MLB-DTW.

Delta really doesn't do tertiary Florida from DTW: no DAB, MLB, PNS, or ECP. Are you suggesting DL start DTW-MLB just to mess with a Porter Q400 on Windsor-Melbourne? The 757s DTW-MCO fly plenty of SW Ontario Canadians.

I am suggesting a DTW-MLB weekend link on an -88 or 717, because if YQG can support a flight to MLB, in my mind if I were a Network Planner, I would want to capture both Michigan and Ontario passengers, and without killing my 7x daily (8x Saturday) MCO, I can do what is done with SRQ and do weekend flying. I know Porter has decent amenities but who can't say no to Delta's magic cookies?

The only issue is, DL doesn't seem tremendously committed to adding what YQG has, because if that were the case, there'd be YYC flights on DL.

Seat1F · Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:36 pm

klm617 wrote:
F27500 wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:
How could a Dash 8 make it from Canada all the way to Central Florida??? Especially if it has a full load!

It can't.

It's not a Dash 8 it's a Q400.

Fly to Florida from Canada on a Q400? um....no thanks. I been on Q400's several times when UA was running them between EWR and YUL for a while. It was OK for that flight length. However to go from Canada to Florida? No chance. Put me on a jet for that trip.

INFINITI329 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:01 am

If PD has gotten their way in regards to jets at YTZ I don't think the route would exist. It would be YTZ-MCO. I hope PD can get the federal government to change their minds

F27500 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:11 am

klm617 wrote:
F27500 wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:
How could a Dash 8 make it from Canada all the way to Central Florida??? Especially if it has a full load!

It can't.

It's not a Dash 8 it's a Q400. Back in the day if you recall everything was flown with piston and turbo prop aircraft aircraft. Air Canada back in the day flew from Toronto to the Caribbean on a Vanguard. YQG-MLB is 987 air miles and the Q400 range is 1000+ miles

Wrong. the series 400 is just a stretched Dash 8. Its longer but every bit as cramped and unpleasant as the older smaller variants. The "Q400" is merely a marketing ploy to distract people from what theyre actually flying.

And you said "back in the day" AC flew Vanguard to YYZ ... right .. WAY back in the day .. when better, more capable planes (jets) weren't widely used as they are now ... and should be for any route from Canada to Florida.

And just because a plane HAS the range doesn't mean it was intended for it .. or should be pushed to within 13 miles of it.

No Dash .. no way. Bad plane for the mission.

klm617 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:51 am

Porter schedule from Windsor ON to Melbourne FL. Flights operated Saturday only from December to April and are around $460 round trip

11:55 AM – 2:50 PM
Windsor (YQG) – Melbourne (MLB)
Porter Airlines 759 · De Havilland-Bombardier Dash-8

4:00 PM – 7:00 PM
Melbourne (MLB) – Windsor (YQG)
Porter Airlines 760 · Economy Class · De Havilland-Bombardier Dash-8

klm617 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:58 am

flymco753 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
From an Orlando or Melbourne point of sale, this won't bode well for folks wanting to get to Detroit via YQG, so with that I don't think this flight will effect DTW service from MCO, but I do think it's an opportunity for DL to add a weekend MD88 from MLB-DTW.

Delta really doesn't do tertiary Florida from DTW: no DAB, MLB, PNS, or ECP. Are you suggesting DL start DTW-MLB just to mess with a Porter Q400 on Windsor-Melbourne? The 757s DTW-MCO fly plenty of SW Ontario Canadians.
I am suggesting a DTW-MLB weekend link on an -88 or 717, because if YQG can support a flight to MLB, in my mind if I were a Network Planner, I would want to capture both Michigan and Ontario passengers, and without killing my 7x daily (8x Saturday) MCO, I can do what is done with SRQ and do weekend flying. I know Porter has decent amenities but who can't say no to Delta's magic cookies? The only issue is, DL doesn't seem tremendously committed to adding what YQG has, because if that were the case, there'd be YYC flights on DL.

Not to mention they'd also be flying Detroit to Cuba because YQG-VRD has been operated for years in the winter

flymco753 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:02 am

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Delta really doesn't do tertiary Florida from DTW: no DAB, MLB, PNS, or ECP. Are you suggesting DL start DTW-MLB just to mess with a Porter Q400 on Windsor-Melbourne? The 757s DTW-MCO fly plenty of SW Ontario Canadians.
I am suggesting a DTW-MLB weekend link on an -88 or 717, because if YQG can support a flight to MLB, in my mind if I were a Network Planner, I would want to capture both Michigan and Ontario passengers, and without killing my 7x daily (8x Saturday) MCO, I can do what is done with SRQ and do weekend flying. I know Porter has decent amenities but who can't say no to Delta's magic cookies? The only issue is, DL doesn't seem tremendously committed to adding what YQG has, because if that were the case, there'd be YYC flights on DL.

Not to mention they'd also be flying Detroit to Cuba because YQG-VRD has been operated for years in the winter

Yeah but US hasn't been able to travel there as long, and on top of that the US-Cuba market is weaker than what everyone thinks so it wouldn't have made sense, but MLB, a domestic market that could be along the lines of SRQ could work for DL.

Dominion301 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:17 am

F27500 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Last Friday, PD announced MLB will be connected nonstop to YOW and YQG on Saturdays from mid-December to the end of March.

This is the 3rd route PD have added at YOW this year! YFC and YSJ have both started in the past two weeks daily.

For YQG, this will be it's first truly credible transborder service. The debacle with National 757s notwithstanding.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/po ... 00433.html

You call putting a Dash 8 on a nonstop from Canada to Florida "CREDIBLE" ??!

I call it crazy. That's a miserable plane for such a long leg. I can't believe anyone would fly on it.

Porter's 74 seat config. is very comfortable. I'd do it in a heartbeat. I wonder at 1,059 nm / 1,962 km whether YOW-MLB will become the world's longest Q400 route? YQG-MLB will be shorter than YTZ-MLB.

compensateme · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:27 am

Dominion301 wrote:
Porter's 74 seat config. is very comfortable. I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Very comfortable? The seat is tight and the cabin is deafening. Porter's service is superb for short flights, but it's certainly not worth the trade off for a 3-hour flight. Plus, there's no lounge at YQG or MLB so that takes some of the service away...

ahj2000 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:28 am

DOES YQG even have preclearance? If so, this might be the first PD flight needing immigration on arrival to the us.

compensateme · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:30 am

ahj2000 wrote:
DOES YQG even have preclearance? If so, this might be the first PD flight needing immigration on arrival to the us.

No. When National Airlines operated YQG-SFB a year ago or so, the flights cleared at SFB.

Dominion301 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:36 am

ahj2000 wrote:
DOES YQG even have preclearance? If so, this might be the first PD flight needing immigration on arrival to the us.

Not a single scheduled PD transborder flight has ever used preclearance thus far. While it's on the way, YTZ does not have preclearance. YOW does, but rumour has it the YOW-MLB route will not preclear at YOW.

F27500 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:46 am

Dominion301 wrote:
F27500 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Last Friday, PD announced MLB will be connected nonstop to YOW and YQG on Saturdays from mid-December to the end of March.

This is the 3rd route PD have added at YOW this year! YFC and YSJ have both started in the past two weeks daily.

For YQG, this will be it's first truly credible transborder service. The debacle with National 757s notwithstanding.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/po ... 00433.html

You call putting a Dash 8 on a nonstop from Canada to Florida "CREDIBLE" ??!

I call it crazy. That's a miserable plane for such a long leg. I can't believe anyone would fly on it.

Porter's 74 seat config. is very comfortable. I'd do it in a heartbeat. I wonder at 1,059 nm / 1,962 km whether YOW-MLB will become the world's longest Q400 route? YQG-MLB will be shorter than YTZ-MLB.

I checked their website. They schedule YOW-MLB at 3:25. Which you know in the winter months will face headwinds and weather. And take a lot longer .. esp with the probable fuel stop.

They need to really re-think this idea of running a stretched commuter prop plane on segments like these. This is every bit as bad as an EMB145 on a 4 hr flight .. or a cramped ULCC 737 across the Atlantic.

Bad business.

stlgph · Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:23 am

Lord man, give it a rest.

F27500 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:51 pm

stlgph wrote:
Lord man, give it a rest.

Why should I give it a rest? This is a discussion forum.

And stop calling me Lord Man.

727LOVER · Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:34 pm

F27500 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Lord man, give it a rest.

Why should I give it a rest? This is a discussion forum.

And stop calling me Lord Man.

Shirley, the started one Canadian route to MLB last winter. If that hadn't worked out, then they wouldn't be starting 2 more.

Elite Airways does PWM-Florida on CRJ & CR7...is that any better/worse?

dr1980 · Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:42 pm

F27500 wrote:
Bad business.

That remains to be seen, though the fact that they are expanding their service to MLB tells me Porter has cause to think this is good business.

diverted · Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:46 pm

F27500 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
F27500 wrote:

You call putting a Dash 8 on a nonstop from Canada to Florida "CREDIBLE" ??!

I call it crazy. That's a miserable plane for such a long leg. I can't believe anyone would fly on it.

Porter's 74 seat config. is very comfortable. I'd do it in a heartbeat. I wonder at 1,059 nm / 1,962 km whether YOW-MLB will become the world's longest Q400 route? YQG-MLB will be shorter than YTZ-MLB.

I checked their website. They schedule YOW-MLB at 3:25. Which you know in the winter months will face headwinds and weather. And take a lot longer .. esp with the probable fuel stop.

They need to really re-think this idea of running a stretched commuter prop plane on segments like these. This is every bit as bad as an EMB145 on a 4 hr flight .. or a cramped ULCC 737 across the Atlantic.

Bad business.

Eh, not really. If you look at how their network is built, they have a pile of slack in the fleet on weekends. Might as well utilize the aircraft dropping off snowbirds. Sure, it's no SQ 380, but it's still a short flight, and I haven't heard of them needing any fuel stops last year when they introduced YTZ-MLB.

If people are willing to buy tickets, who are you to judge the feasibility of running "a stretched commuter prop plane."

It's not like they can throw an A320 on the route

stlgph · Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:59 pm

F27500 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Lord man, give it a rest.

Why should I give it a rest? This is a discussion forum.

And stop calling me Lord Man.

You're not discussing anything. You're just here bashing an airline deciding to start service from Point A to Point B.

It really is an amazing world when you step outside, get some friends, a real job, a real education, perhaps a trip on Porter Airlines from Ottawa to Melbourne.

F27500 · Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:37 pm

stlgph wrote:
F27500 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Lord man, give it a rest.

Why should I give it a rest? This is a discussion forum.

And stop calling me Lord Man.

You're not discussing anything. You're just here bashing an airline deciding to start service from Point A to Point B.

It really is an amazing world when you step outside, get some friends, a real job, a real education, perhaps a trip on Porter Airlines from Ottawa to Melbourne.

Seriously? So nasty? I am merely criticizing the practice of using planes on routes they were not designed for, that's all.

I am OK with the Dash 8 (or any larger turboprop) on anything up to 1.5 hrs. But let's face it the Dash (even the fancy "Q400") is a noisy uncomfortable plane that doesn't handle bad weather well .. just like an ATR.

And don't be the typical A.Netter bully calling someone names if they are critical of an airline or aviation related matter.

We all love aviation, but we may not always agree with it.

And a Dash 8-400 was NOT designed to fly from Canada to Florida in revenue service. You know that just as well as I do.

NichCage · Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:48 pm

I bet that YTZ-MLB is pushing the limits of the Q400.

I think a good idea for Porter would be to order the C-Series jets but use them in YOW and YUL instead of YTZ. Maybe they could expand the YOW hub with the C-Series.

ac888yow · Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:32 pm

I don't see the fuss about flying ~3 hrs in a Q400. Comfy plane, especially when coupled with Porter' s nice service.

airzona11 · Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:09 am

F27500 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
F27500 wrote:

Why should I give it a rest? This is a discussion forum.

And stop calling me Lord Man.

You're not discussing anything. You're just here bashing an airline deciding to start service from Point A to Point B.

It really is an amazing world when you step outside, get some friends, a real job, a real education, perhaps a trip on Porter Airlines from Ottawa to Melbourne.

Seriously? So nasty? I am merely criticizing the practice of using planes on routes they were not designed for, that's all.

I am OK with the Dash 8 (or any larger turboprop) on anything up to 1.5 hrs. But let's face it the Dash (even the fancy "Q400") is a noisy uncomfortable plane that doesn't handle bad weather well .. just like an ATR.

And don't be the typical A.Netter bully calling someone names if they are critical of an airline or aviation related matter.

We all love aviation, but we may not always agree with it.

And a Dash 8-400 was NOT designed to fly from Canada to Florida in revenue service. You know that just as well as I do.

What winter headwinds will make this North South route even longer?
Porter is in the business of making money, they are using available plane hours to go after holiday travelers... aka the least discerning based on plane/airline/etc.

The fact the Dash can do this shows the planes robust capabilities and for Porter, they can make more money.

Don't like the Q400, don't fly it.

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