KLDC10 wrote:

For what it's worth, DTW is also the first base for the A350, which is the new Flagship of the Delta fleet. That demonstrates considerable commitment to the airport, and the addition of the CDG flight is another demonstration of that commitment.

Indeed. I don't understand some of the doom and gloom posted about DTW. It's DL's Eastern hub to Asia, and DL has shown no indication that is going to change anytime soon. At this time, there are really only two US airline Asia hubs in the Eastern US, DTW and EWR. DL flies DTW-PVG, PEK, NRT, NGO, and ICN (in addition to the Europe and Brazil flying that DL does from DTW). There are A LOT of airports out there that would kill for the service DTW gets.

Flighty wrote:

?? The non-daily aspect, for an organization as large as AF-KL-DL, is baffling to me. I guess it wasn't obvious to me or maybe others: these are MARGINAL ADDS to existing AF-KL-DL joint venture flights that have run on traditional flag carrier metal for years.

Yup. This flying is certainly not meant to replace what KL and AF already fly between LAX and CDG/AMS, just to complement it.

Seems like DL will end JFK-ARN & CPH s18.

OA412 wrote:

[

Indeed. I don't understand some of the doom and gloom posted about DTW. It's DL's Eastern hub to Asia, and DL has shown no indication that is going to change anytime soon. At this time, there are really only two US airline Asia hubs in the Eastern US, DTW and EWR. DL flies DTW-PVG, PEK, NRT, NGO, and ICN (in addition to the Europe and Brazil flying that DL does from DTW). There are A LOT of airports out there that would kill for the service DTW gets.

There are those DTW Fanboys who think every airline, especially international carriers, should fly their biggest aircraft to/from DTW every day if not more often. It is literally at the point of being silly.

Ferryflight wrote:

Seems like DL will end JFK-ARN & CPH s18.

I believe only ARN is ending (already not available for sale); CPH still seems to be around for S18. Do you have confirmation of CPH ending?

JFK-PDL...guess we know what they are doing with the GUM aircraft!

Does anyone know answers to these questions:

1) will DL be revamping economy on 77s when they perform DL1 mods. New seats IFE? 77s are getting pretty dilapidated.

2) what a330s will be performing JFK-LHR (332 or 333) and will there be a330 mods premium economy to match VS product.

First post.... thanks!

HeeseokKoo wrote:

B747forever wrote:

The noon departure for both AMS/CDG will be the earliest EU departure, though it will be horrible for jetlag. By the time you arrive early in the morning, it will be 9-10pm LA time and you will be ready for sleep.

Ready for sleep, but there's still 7+ hours before hotels let us check in. West coasters will feel the same pain east coasters have suffered for decades.

I actually greatly prefer this timing...stay up the night before (or just sleep for 2ish hours and then force yourself up) and then crash once on the plane at noon. Boom: instant acclimation! Plus, you have the whole day to do things: most train stations (and probably your hote/hostell) will let you check bags for the day.

klm617 wrote:

That's not true because over the next 2 years Delta is adding 600 seats in the ATL Asia market. 210 seats a day in a market it a lot that almost 1500 a week in lost revenue that is going to another airport

Here's a very useful and detailed article which covers the subject of Asia capacity reduction very concisely: https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspecu ... 3cb1f85814

Delta has been working very hard to exercise capacity discipline over the past couple of years. As this article helpfully points out, we have seen a nearly 7% reduction in capacity from the US to Asia. Simply telling me that Atlanta is getting a handful more seats a day does not reflect the overall situation, which is one of capacity reduction. As capacity is reduced, it is entirely reasonable for the remaining capacity to be moved between markets as necessary. I'm trying to help you understand that this has nothing to do with Detroit and everything to do with being competitive and sustainable in Asia.

KLDC10 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

That's not true because over the next 2 years Delta is adding 600 seats in the ATL Asia market. 210 seats a day in a market it a lot that almost 1500 a week in lost revenue that is going to another airport

Here's a very useful and detailed article which covers the subject of Asia capacity reduction very concisely: https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspecu ... 3cb1f85814

Delta has been working very hard to exercise capacity discipline over the past couple of years. As this article helpfully points out, we have seen a nearly 7% reduction in capacity from the US to Asia. Simply telling me that Atlanta is getting a handful more seats a day does not reflect the overall situation, which is one of capacity reduction. As capacity is reduced, it is entirely reasonable for the remaining capacity to be moved between markets as necessary. I'm trying to help you understand that this has nothing to do with Detroit and everything to do with being competitive and sustainable in Asia.

Its not worth arguing. The rational world believes getting the A350s with new Delta One and Premium Economy is a good thing, only this poster doesn't. There is absolutely NOTHING Delta could do to make him happy.

jbs2886 wrote:

KLDC10 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

That's not true because over the next 2 years Delta is adding 600 seats in the ATL Asia market. 210 seats a day in a market it a lot that almost 1500 a week in lost revenue that is going to another airport

Here's a very useful and detailed article which covers the subject of Asia capacity reduction very concisely: https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspecu ... 3cb1f85814

Delta has been working very hard to exercise capacity discipline over the past couple of years. As this article helpfully points out, we have seen a nearly 7% reduction in capacity from the US to Asia. Simply telling me that Atlanta is getting a handful more seats a day does not reflect the overall situation, which is one of capacity reduction. As capacity is reduced, it is entirely reasonable for the remaining capacity to be moved between markets as necessary. I'm trying to help you understand that this has nothing to do with Detroit and everything to do with being competitive and sustainable in Asia.

Its not worth arguing. The rational world believes getting the A350s with new Delta One and Premium Economy is a good thing, only this poster doesn't. There is absolutely NOTHING Delta could do to make him happy.

Maybe he would be happy if DL relocated all JFK international flights to the DTW hub.

How come the 77L's have enough slack in their schedules to fly to both AMS & CDG? Is it because of the A350's arriving?

jbs2886 wrote:

Its not worth arguing. The rational world believes getting the A350s with new Delta One and Premium Economy is a good thing, only this poster doesn't. There is absolutely NOTHING Delta could do to make him happy.

You're probably right. Then again, if you want a bigger laugh, head on over to the Bombardier/Boeing/C-Series thread. Makes this look like positively high-brow discussion.

I don't want things to get dragged too far off topic, so for anyone who is interested, the article I linked earlier also outlines the modest increase in capacity from the US to Europe so far, which is in line with my earlier comments about the A330-900 and of course in line with these new route announcements.

717atOGG wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

Someone will really be happy that DTW is getting another daily international flight.

They'll be upset that they didn't get DTW-DUB or MAN though. Seriously however, great adds for DL and I can imagine that all these flights will do well.

Both of those people will be me:). I get that there's probably not enough demand for DUB or MAN, though. But still, good to have another option for CDG. Wish it was still on a 744...

highlanderfil wrote:

717atOGG wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

Someone will really be happy that DTW is getting another daily international flight.

They'll be upset that they didn't get DTW-DUB or MAN though. Seriously however, great adds for DL and I can imagine that all these flights will do well.

probably not enough demand for DUB

There is on a 75W, but BCN has even more which I don't think the 75W can do DTW-BCN.

Quint1 wrote:

How come the 77L's have enough slack in their schedules to fly to both AMS & CDG? Is it because of the A350's arriving?

AMS and CDG combine for 1x daily transatlantic flight from LAX, which fits in between the LAX-SYD flight. The A350 is replacing the 77L that has been flying ATL-ICN, so that's two 77Ls that should be freed up. However, DTW-PVG is also moving from the 744 to the 77L, so things will be really tight from a utilization perspective unless another flight gets moved to the A350 before ATL-PVG starts in mid July.

The Portuguese market has really boomed in the past 3-4 years...anybody know why?

Nothing announced for AUS like all of the speculation has been talking about, or really any of the smaller markets that were discussed (expect for IND). I wonder if news will come out in the later fall/early winter?

tkoenig95 wrote:

Nothing announced for AUS like all of the speculation has been talking about, or really any of the smaller markets that were discussed (expect for IND). I wonder if news will come out in the later fall/early winter?

AUS has seen an enormous increase in TATL very recently including an increase in frequency on Condor and a huge upgauge on BA. Despite Austin's growth it's not Hong Kong or Dubai and it may be reaching the point to where the dust needs to settle on where the market stands.

allegiantflyer wrote:

The Portuguese market has really boomed in the past 3-4 years...anybody know why?

For starters, its considered a relative bargain in Europe as the national recovers from its economic issues.

Also geopolitics has seen ever more Europeans stay within Europe for vacations last few years. Largest visitor groups to Portugal in 2016 were - British, Germans, Spaniards and French.

WOW... PDL. The Azores.
When UA announced OPO, I questioned if a US carrier would fly to the Canarias Islands or the Azores...
We have a winner folks.. Ding Ding.

tkoenig95 wrote:

Nothing announced for AUS like all of the speculation has been talking about, or really any of the smaller markets that were discussed (expect for IND). I wonder if news will come out in the later fall/early winter?

Only time will tell, looks like they are spreading it out. Remember, MCO-AMS was announced around a month before IND-CDG, and these new routes are coming 2 weeks after the IND-CDG announcement.

Digdas wrote:

RJNUT wrote:

crazytoaster wrote:

Wow interesting add to PDL. Is this the first US carrier to serve PDL?

ATL-LIS is also a great add.Both are summer seasonal

I believe TWA back in the early 70's served the Azores , but not PDL, but rather the airport at Santa Maria, on a nearby island. It may have also been some sort of US military installation there, if a recall?!

Yep TWA flew to SMA back then.

IIRC, it was a weekly nonstop from BOS, and continued on to LIS.

usairways85 wrote:

Quite a bit of capacity add to Portugal in S18
DL: ATL-LIS
AA: PHL-LIS 752>763
UA: EWR-OPO, IAD-LIS

If anything they are late to the party.
In 2016, Canadian visitors to Portugal grew 30% and American visitors grew 22%. TP has had its flights full all year round, not just in the Summer. TAP's Stopover program has been a huge success, from what I've read and they are expanding it this year. I still expect to see more N.American routes announced for next Summer. Personally I think it's absolutely crazy that B6 and DL haven't already been flying to PDL from BOS. The Azores are still a huge untapped market from the U.S.

klwright69 wrote:

WOW... PDL. The Azores.
When UA announced OPO, I questioned if a US carrier would fly to the Canarias Islands or the Azores...
We have a winner folks.. Ding Ding.

Who from the States or Canada really vacations in the Azores? I know a few people that have gone there but it's not nearly as popular as CUN, NAS, PUJ, SJU, etc.

The 77L seems like a bit much plane for TATL from LAX. Is this to increase utilization? Is it temporary till the A339s arrive (which seems like the more ideal plane for the route)? I would've thought there were longer haul flights where the 77L capabilities would be better put to use.

For reference, the currently listed AF and KL capacity planned to LAX S18 is as follows (per GDS)

AMS-LAX: 14X = 5x 74E, 2x 744, 3x 772, 4x 789
CDG-LAX: 17X = 7x 380, 7x 77W, 3x 772

The LAX-AMS/CDG add seems pretty small and not particularly impactful. LAX is a challenging market for DL, as the flag carriers are the ones who always get that business. Meanwhile, I don't understand why they pulled SVO entirely. I guess more AMS/CDG makes more sense, but SVO was one of the last two remaining markets DL had to Eastern Europe. Tourism must be way down. Meanwhile, we have no new adds to the Middle East or Turkey. DL focuses on a very specific crowd; its main pull seems to be very traditional tourist and business markets in Western Europe. Anything riskier connects over AMS/CDG.

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Interesting add for JFK-PDL. It seemed that the Azores was more VFR - Does PDL have much tourism?

It should definitely get more visitors. I was there very recently and loved it. I want to go back.

All these additions are very interesting. Congrats to DL!

tjh8402 wrote:

The 77L seems like a bit much plane for TATL from LAX. Is this to increase utilization? Is it temporary till the A339s arrive (which seems like the more ideal plane for the route)? I would've thought there were longer haul flights where the 77L capabilities would be better put to use.

I suppose it is for improved utilization. Could anyone give us some info on the DL 777 schedule for Summer 2018 (to the extent available)?

izbtmnhd wrote:

Who from the States or Canada really vacations in the Azores? I know a few people that have gone there but it's not nearly as popular as CUN, NAS, PUJ, SJU, etc.

It is like comparing oranges to apples. The type of American tourists in Cancún is substantially different from those visiting the Azores. Azores has great potential. It is a fantastic place.

highlanderfil wrote:

717atOGG wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

Someone will really be happy that DTW is getting another daily international flight.

They'll be upset that they didn't get DTW-DUB or MAN though. Seriously however, great adds for DL and I can imagine that all these flights will do well.

Both of those people will be me:). I get that there's probably not enough demand for DUB or MAN, though. But still, good to have another option for CDG. Wish it was still on a 744...

Both are within 757 range and work out quite well with all the feed they would have at the Detroit hub if given half a chance , DTW-MAN has been on the verge of starting twice already but Delta has killed it both times.

Very surprising they are canceling EWR-AMS but keeping EWR-CDG?
I believe it will be just united operating EWR-AMS but EWR-CDG will have 2 United 2 laCompagne and just 1 Delta.

klm617 wrote:

highlanderfil wrote:

717atOGG wrote:

They'll be upset that they didn't get DTW-DUB or MAN though. Seriously however, great adds for DL and I can imagine that all these flights will do well.

Both of those people will be me:). I get that there's probably not enough demand for DUB or MAN, though. But still, good to have another option for CDG. Wish it was still on a 744...

Both are within 757 range and work out quite well with all the feed they would have at the Detroit hub if given half a chance , DTW-MAN has been on the verge of starting twice already but Delta has killed it both times.

Is there a way to block people on this forum?

Will 777 mods include new economy seats?? Can someone give a detailed description of expected 777 and 764 mods?

EddieDude wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Who from the States or Canada really vacations in the Azores? I know a few people that have gone there but it's not nearly as popular as CUN, NAS, PUJ, SJU, etc.

It is like comparing oranges to apples. The type of American tourists in Cancún is substantially different from those visiting the Azores. Azores has great potential. It is a fantastic place.

I get it's a great place, I've been there. That being said, the market from North America has to be very small. Even if you wanted off the beaten path islands there are plenty that already exist on shorter flights to the Caribbean (even eliminating ones which were affected by Irma or Maria).

And to be honest, the winter climate at PDL is more like Bermuda than a traditional Caribbean place. Europeans are kind of stuck with the Azores for a short winter trip in the winter. There are many more options for folks living in North America.

I just see this getting cut pretty quick if there is any economic downturn in the US or Canada.

FlyingHollander wrote:

I would hate to be on that LAX-AMS flight. Wouldn't be able to sleep at all with a noon departure. I guess you just have to deal with that if you must be in AMS early morning.

It's a very good time for connections to KLM's first wave of European departures, as well as their east and south Africa routes, though. KL 602 arrives at 9:15, very tight connections to the 10:00-10:45 bank

izbtmnhd wrote:

tkoenig95 wrote:

Nothing announced for AUS like all of the speculation has been talking about, or really any of the smaller markets that were discussed (expect for IND). I wonder if news will come out in the later fall/early winter?

AUS has seen an enormous increase in TATL very recently including an increase in frequency on Condor and a huge upgauge on BA. Despite Austin's growth it's not Hong Kong or Dubai and it may be reaching the point to where the dust needs to settle on where the market stands.

Very, very true you are. I would assume to see more domestic DL routes before adding any type of int'l service.

Joost wrote:

FlyingHollander wrote:

I would hate to be on that LAX-AMS flight. Wouldn't be able to sleep at all with a noon departure. I guess you just have to deal with that if you must be in AMS early morning.

It's a very good time for connections to KLM's first wave of European departures, as well as their east and south Africa routes, though. KL 602 arrives at 9:15, very tight connections to the 10:00-10:45 bank

Correct me if I am wrong, but this new DL flight arrives too late for the very early morning EU bank starting around 7AM. It only hits the second wave, which you can still get in time for on the long standing KL602. It seems the only thing this new DL service does is to give much longer connection times.

izbtmnhd wrote:

EddieDude wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Who from the States or Canada really vacations in the Azores? I know a few people that have gone there but it's not nearly as popular as CUN, NAS, PUJ, SJU, etc.

It is like comparing oranges to apples. The type of American tourists in Cancún is substantially different from those visiting the Azores. Azores has great potential. It is a fantastic place.

I get it's a great place, I've been there. That being said, the market from North America has to be very small. Even if you wanted off the beaten path islands there are plenty that already exist on shorter flights to the Caribbean (even eliminating ones which were affected by Irma or Maria).

And to be honest, the winter climate at PDL is more like Bermuda than a traditional Caribbean place. Europeans are kind of stuck with the Azores for a short winter trip in the winter. There are many more options for folks living in North America.

I just see this getting cut pretty quick if there is any economic downturn in the US or Canada.

They cater to a more active and adventurous type of tourist and they don't want big resorts and want to keep the experience, authentic. So they keep the number of hotel rooms low which by itself caps the amount of airplane seats you can have to the islands. There is virtually no advertisement in the U.S. for the Azores. However, I have yet to meet anyone that's been to the Azores that didn't absolutely love it. With proper advertisement I think this flight will be a huge success. It's also worth noting that Newark has the largest Portuguese community in the U.S.

B747forever wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but this new DL flight arrives too late for the very early morning EU bank starting around 7AM. It only hits the second wave, which you can still get in time for on the long standing KL602. It seems the only thing this new DL service does is to give much longer connection times.

The new LAX-AMS flight works for KL departures to CPT, JNB, JRO and a ton of short-haul stuff.

MaxTrimm wrote:

UA announced EWR-PDL last week. That’s (I’m sure) the reason they are starting it.

You don't typically announce a route that quickly just because someone else did, especially a place where there has to be infrastructure built. I'm sure they had this in the plan for a while.Also UA did not announce PDL. They announced OPO.

klm617 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

klm617 wrote:

As far as the DTW-CDG add in that whole announcment DTW was the only airport that didn't get any new option just more Delta on an already operated route.

I guess SEA, SLC, CVG, BOS, and MSP aren't airports then....

Last year

SEA, got VS
SLC, MSP got KL
BOS got DUB
CVG got nothing correct

And DTW got MUC.

B747forever wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but this new DL flight arrives too late for the very early morning EU bank starting around 7AM. It only hits the second wave, which you can still get in time for on the long standing KL602. It seems the only thing this new DL service does is to give much longer connection times.

Between 8:45 and 10:05 there are over 50 European connections possible from AMS.

This is announcement sets a new frequency record for DL at a European station.
AMS will see 144x DL departures/week in S18 to 11 destinations in the USA.

LAX will be Delta's 21st departure/day at AMS:

1 arr. 05:50 BOS DL 124 A333 Daily
2 arr. 06:00 DTW DL 132 A332 Daily
3 arr. 05:55 ATL DL 70 A333 Daily
4 arr. 06:00 JFK DL 160 B763 Daily
5 arr. 06:30 MSP DL 258 A333 Daily
6 arr. 07:30 EWR DL 148 B763 Daily
7 arr. 07.55 LAX DL78 B772 M,T,T,S
8 dep. 08:10 DTW DL 133 A332 Daily
9 arr. 08:05 DTW DL 134 A332 Daily
10 arr. 08:05 ATL DL 72 A333 Daily
11 arr. 08:15 BOS DL 126 A333 Daily
12 arr. 08:35 SEA DL 142 A333 Daily
13 arr. 08:45 PDX DL 148 A333 Daily
14 dep. 08:45 ATL DL 71 A333 Daily
15 dep. 09:30 JFK DL 274 B763 Daily
16 arr. 09:40 DTW DL 136 A333 Daily
17 arr. 09:40 JFK DL 475 A333 Daily
18 dep. 10:00 SEA DL 143 A333 Daily
19 dep. 10:35 DTW DL 135 A333 Daily
20 dep. 10:25 PDX DL 179 A333 Daily
21 dep. 10:30 SLC DL 57 A332 Daily
22 dep. 10:35 BOS DL 125 A333 Daily
23 arr. 10:40 MSP DL 162 A333 Daily
24 arr. 10:40 ATL DL 74 A333 Daily
25 dep. 10:50 MSP DL 161 A333 Daily
26 arr. 10:50 SLC DL 56 A332 Daily
27 dep. 10:55 ATL DL 73 A333 Daily
28 dep. 11:25 JFK DL 49 A333 Daily
29 arr. 11:35 DTW DL 138 A332 Daily
30 arr. 12:45 MCO DL126 B763 Daily
31 arr. 13:00 MSP DL 164 A333 Daily
32 arr. 13:00 SEA DL 144 A332 Daily
33 dep. 13:00 MSP DL 137 A333 Daily
34 dep. 13:15 MCO DL127 B763 Daily
35 dep. 13:20 DTW DL 163 A333 Daily
36 dep. 13:25 ATL DL 75 A333 Daily
37 dep. 14:30 SEA DL 145 A332 Daily
38 dep. 14:55 BOS DL 127 A333 Daily
39 dep. 15:00 DTW DL 139 A332 Daily
40 dep. 15:15 EWR DL 141 B763 Daily
41 dep. 15:15 MSP DL 165 A333 Daily
42 dep. 15:35 LAX DL79 B772 M,T,T,S

2018 destination per type:
Daily A332 - 5x dep. DTW, DTW, DTW, SLC, SEA
Daily A333 - 12x dep. DTW, ATL, ATL, ATL, JFK, PDX, MSP, MSP, MSP, BOS, BOS, SEA
Daily B763 - 3x dep. JFK, EWR, MCO
MTTS B772 - 1x dep. LAX

Frequency per type over last eight summer seasons:
Year 2011/12/13/14/15/16/17/2018
A333 = 7x 7x 12x 10x 7x 9x 12x 12x
A332 = 3x 3x 3x 2x 1x 3x 5x 5x
B763 = 8x 8x 3x 5x 5x 3x 2x 3x
B764 = 0x 0x 0x 0x 5x 4x 0x 0x
B744 = 0x 0x 0x 0x 2x 0x 0x 0x
B772 = 0x 0x 1x 1x 0x 0x 0x 1x

Freq. = 18 18 19 18 20 19 19 21
Destin = 9 8 8 8 10 9 9 11 (BOM dropped)

izbtmnhd wrote:

klwright69 wrote:

WOW... PDL. The Azores.
When UA announced OPO, I questioned if a US carrier would fly to the Canarias Islands or the Azores...
We have a winner folks.. Ding Ding.

Who from the States or Canada really vacations in the Azores? I know a few people that have gone there but it's not nearly as popular as CUN, NAS, PUJ, SJU, etc.

Azores and mainland Portugal are two quite distinctive markets.

As for the Azores, it depends. I have lived in Boston and I know people who have been there on city-breaks (b/c of SATA, now Azores Airlines). And yes SATA did some shy advertisement about those services for holidaymakers in the Boston area. So it is about the old say of "put them non-stop flights and they will fly"

IMO the new "Azores boom" has some similarities with the Iceland boom. It is a very AirBNB - Internet kind of holiday, "authentic" and mid-Atlantic so it can be reached easily from both the US and Europe (Ryanair has started recently services to PDL)

Also with the EUR so low for American tourists, and Portugal being quite a cheap country, I don't think Azores will end up being more expensive than some Central or South American countries. And even if Portugal is quite poor for European standards, it is way ahead in terms of safety, infrastructures, etc. compared to any country south of Texas. So it can have some attraction of American holidaymakers looking for a quiet and relaxed holiday.

cokepopper wrote:

Very surprising they are canceling EWR-AMS but keeping EWR-CDG?
I believe it will be just united operating EWR-AMS but EWR-CDG will have 2 United 2 laCompagne and just 1 Delta.

Where was it announced that EWR-AMS is ending? I missed that.

MIflyer12 wrote:

B747forever wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but this new DL flight arrives too late for the very early morning EU bank starting around 7AM. It only hits the second wave, which you can still get in time for on the long standing KL602. It seems the only thing this new DL service does is to give much longer connection times.

The new LAX-AMS flight works for KL departures to CPT, JNB, JRO and a ton of short-haul stuff.

KL602 already connects to both JNB (1h30min) and JRO (1h20min).

Momo1435 wrote:

B747forever wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but this new DL flight arrives too late for the very early morning EU bank starting around 7AM. It only hits the second wave, which you can still get in time for on the long standing KL602. It seems the only thing this new DL service does is to give much longer connection times.

Between 8:45 and 10:05 there are over 50 European connections possible from AMS.

With the DL flight arriving into AMS at 7:55, the first connections you can make will be at 8:55. There is no way that KLM has 50 EU connections between 8:55 and 10:05 (1 hour after arrival of KL602). Heck, does KLM even serve 50 EU cities?

So the only benefit of the new DL LAX-AMS flight will be for any connecting flights between 8:55 and 10:05.

B747forever wrote:

With the DL flight arriving into AMS at 7:55, the first connections you can make will be at 8:55. There is no way that KLM has 50 EU connections between 8:55 and 10:05 (1 hour after arrival of KL602). Heck, does KLM even serve 50 EU cities?

So the only benefit of the new DL LAX-AMS flight will be for any connecting flights between 8:55 and 10:05.

KLM Cityhopper alone serves 58 destinations from Schiphol
When you add destinations served by Skyteam partners and also KLM mainline, it isn't unthinkable that there would be 50 possible connections in such a short space of time.

B747forever wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

B747forever wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but this new DL flight arrives too late for the very early morning EU bank starting around 7AM. It only hits the second wave, which you can still get in time for on the long standing KL602. It seems the only thing this new DL service does is to give much longer connection times.

The new LAX-AMS flight works for KL departures to CPT, JNB, JRO and a ton of short-haul stuff.

KL602 already connects to both JNB (1h30min) and JRO (1h20min).

Momo1435 wrote:

B747forever wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but this new DL flight arrives too late for the very early morning EU bank starting around 7AM. It only hits the second wave, which you can still get in time for on the long standing KL602. It seems the only thing this new DL service does is to give much longer connection times.

Between 8:45 and 10:05 there are over 50 European connections possible from AMS.

With the DL flight arriving into AMS at 7:55, the first connections you can make will be at 8:55. There is no way that KLM has 50 EU connections between 8:55 and 10:05 (1 hour after arrival of KL602). Heck, does KLM even serve 50 EU cities?

So the only benefit of the new DL LAX-AMS flight will be for any connecting flights between 8:55 and 10:05.

During the busy summer season, adding more capacity into a market that their JV partner has a strong control over. This is a great example of the JV benefit and coordinating schedules and aircraft utilization. With Asia fares on a downward trend, DL can rotate more planes to their EU partner hubs.

That LAX - AMS skyteam route is awesome plane wise, choice of 772 744 74M 789.

tkoenig95 wrote:

Nothing announced for AUS like all of the speculation has been talking about, or really any of the smaller markets that were discussed (expect for IND). I wonder if news will come out in the later fall/early winter?

New JV flights US-AMS could come from KL as well, they've made no announcements yet.