SkyVoice wrote:

A question . . . was there, at one time, commercial air service at Princeville Airport (HPV)? I realize that the airport's runway is only 3,560' (1,085 meters) long, plus there is (or was) helicopter service available, but did any airline ever connect HPV with HNL or any other airport in the islands? Thank you in advance for your answers, I have enjoyed reading this thread a great deal!

And the obscure "OK Airways" started by Bob Fraker at Air Services Hawaii in the 80s. "OK" stood for Oahu-Kauai, running Cessna twins, IIRC. 402s or 408s. Bob (RIP) once commented that he started it so the OK staff could get jump seats to the mainland and Down Under .... and ono grinds at the airline events at HNL.

Jeff Stone still offers his Citation for charter into Princeville. "Exclusive access" because the airport is owned by Princeville Corp.
http://resortair.com/

Link to the thread on WP's bankruptcy filing: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1376399

IMO, WP would have been better off operating an HNL/OGG shuttle, and with only 2 or 3 Qs left, the shuttle concept has even more merit. Virtually the same travel time as a B712, and perfect for day trips for the majority of tourists to Hawaii (who have accommodations only on O'ahu).

KanaHawaii wrote:

The airport today is still there. Princeville Airlines was bought up by Aloha Airlines in 1985 or so, and changed the name of the airline to "Aloha Island Air". They also served Kaanapali and the old airport there until it got shut down and air ops for that part of Maui transferred to JHM, Kapalua West Maui.

Actually, Island Air never went to Kaanapali. The only airline allowed to go there was RHAS, which briefly used Twin Otters. The FedEx contractor also went there (I think Corporate Air with a Commander 680).

There was a brief hiatus in service to West Maui as HKP closed in 1986; Hawaiian began service at JHM on March 1, 1987.

MO11 wrote:

KanaHawaii wrote:

The airport today is still there. Princeville Airlines was bought up by Aloha Airlines in 1985 or so, and changed the name of the airline to "Aloha Island Air". They also served Kaanapali and the old airport there until it got shut down and air ops for that part of Maui transferred to JHM, Kapalua West Maui.

Actually, Island Air never went to Kaanapali. The only airline allowed to go there was RHAS, which briefly used Twin Otters. The FedEx contractor also went there (I think Corporate Air with a Commander 680).

There was a brief hiatus in service to West Maui as HKP closed in 1986; Hawaiian began service at JHM on March 1, 1987.

Thank you for the clarification. I had forgotten that RHAS was also a main player along with Princeville at the time.

3 years late, and 50% overbudget ($120 mln for 280K sf)... new hangar at HNL is finally complete. HA is sole lessee.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3662 ... of-repairs
More evidence that an airport authority could do a better job managing Hawaii's airports. Five years to conclude contractor was in breach? No electrical wiring in walls? Subcontractors unpaid?

On a different delay and cost overrun topic, the departure concourse canopy is still incomplete at HNL's main terminal, after the latest in a series of deadlines ("by September 2017") announced by ADiv. is missed.

[photoid][/photoid]

WPvsMW wrote:

3 years late, and 50% overbudget ($120 mln for 280K sf)... new hangar at HNL is finally complete. HA is sole lessee.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3662 ... of-repairs
More evidence that an airport authority could do a better job managing Hawaii's airports.

That article states that at first, the construction costs came from airport user fees. And i've read that HA was upset they had to take over and finance the remainder of the project in house. If the hangar was built for HA's exclusive use than why would anyone else but HA pay for it?

Probably should have been a HA financed project from the start.

77H

Question for Hawaii operations in regards to Available gates and TC when WN arrives.
Anyone know what's available at the 5 major airports.
Rumors have WN already taking over Allegiant space at HNL.
What gate did they use?

Thanks in advance!

Flyguy

G4 is often at Gate 13
http://terminalmaps.hawaii.gov:8080/hmaps/hnl

I'm still trying to figure out what the 5th major airport is.

MO11 wrote:

I'm still trying to figure out what the 5th major airport is.

I would assume Hilo (5th most emplacements after Honolulu, Kahului, Kona, and Lihue)

V/F

77H wrote:

[photoid][/photoid]

WPvsMW wrote:

3 years late, and 50% overbudget ($120 mln for 280K sf)... new hangar at HNL is finally complete. HA is sole lessee.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3662 ... of-repairs
More evidence that an airport authority could do a better job managing Hawaii's airports.

That article states that at first, the construction costs came from airport user fees. And i've read that HA was upset they had to take over and finance the remainder of the project in house. If the hangar was built for HA's exclusive use than why would anyone else but HA pay for it?

Probably should have been a HA financed project from the start.

77H

For state facilities, the State of Hawaii has always been loathe to allow a private entity the ability to build their own facility, building, etc. Has to do with the rights of ownership, of which for the state overall, they like to be the owners of what they build on their property.

I know, kinda silly.

Does anyone know if the declining tourist numbers in the Caribbean have caused an increase in demand to Hawaii this fall? I would imagine so but have not seen any numbers or articles/publications/news stories stating this to be true. It was brought up in the "WN announces Hawaii" thread and the thought was intriguing. Anecdotally inbound flights at my employer have been quite full despite Sept-Early Nov traditionally being the slower season for Hawaii visitors.

Things could get especially interesting come Holiday Peak as Sun Seekers who usually travel to the Caribbean and Gulf look for other places to get out of the cold and spend the Holidays. With all the recent cuts to places like SJU and STT, I would expect that capacity to be diverted to Mexico Resort towns and Hawaii. Hawaii could prove to be the big winner as only 36% of Americans have passports and many that do may be nervous about the violence that can occur even in Resort towns.

It would not be farfetched to see some added flights as well as up gauges around the holidays.

Additionally, I've also read that visitor numbers (especially Japan origin) have declined pretty extensively to GUM in the wake of the threats made by DRNK. While my thoughts are with the peoples impacted by the hurricanes and instability in Western Pacific increased visitors (and visitor spending) help the state very much.

77H

You're correct. Inbound from N.Am. is up.
http://www.hvcb.org/insights/documents/ ... agePAX.pdf

Other useful data. http://www.hvcb.org/insights/

HA has twice the lift to HI as DL, and about a third more than UA. Oh.... AS' senior management is "frustrated". I don't think their pilots are, after the arbitral award today.
https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/new ... tions.html

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... -airlines/
"The average pay increase is 16 percent for an Alaska Airlines captain and 29 percent for a Virgin America captain."

MUE (Waimea-Kohala Airport, on Big Island) may close soon if USDOT operational subsidies (now on extension of an expired contract period) end. The EAS contract (held by MW) for the only scheduled service into MUE ended 09/2017. MW has announced it will continue to operate into MUE on a non-subsidized basis through January 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3684 ... of-closing

MUE is famous for exciting (aka high turbulence) landings, the smaller the frame, the more the excitement.

wnflyguy wrote:

Question for Hawaii operations in regards to Available gates and TC when WN arrives.
Anyone know what's available at the 5 major airports.
Rumors have WN already taking over Allegiant space at HNL.
What gate did they use?

Thanks in advance!

Flyguy

All gates in the state are common use. WN may use office space or counter space vacated by Allegiant, but there are no "Allegiant gates" to be taken over. During the bulk of the day, HNL is bursting with congestion and lack of gate space. Same for OGG, maybe even LIH. It will be interesting to see how WN will fit into this mess.

WPvsMW wrote:

MUE (Waimea-Kohala Airport, on Big Island) may close soon if USDOT operational subsidies (now on extension of an expired contract period) end. The EAS contract (held by MW) for the only scheduled service into MUE ended 09/2017. MW has announced it will continue to operate into MUE on a non-subsidized basis through January 2018.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3684 ... of-closing

MUE is famous for exciting (aka high turbulence) landings, the smaller the frame, the more the excitement.

I just have a hard time picturing HA going in there with a Viscount and DC-9.

The HNL Aviation Enthusiast thread called "HNL RareBirds" has its own website http://hnlrarebirds.com ...

DBEDT update on air cargo in Hawaii
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/11/2 ... 346987de83

In typical local-style journalism, the report title is omitted, and no link provided.

azjubilee wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

Question for Hawaii operations in regards to Available gates and TC when WN arrives.
Anyone know what's available at the 5 major airports.
Rumors have WN already taking over Allegiant space at HNL.
What gate did they use?

Thanks in advance!

Flyguy

All gates in the state are common use. WN may use office space or counter space vacated by Allegiant, but there are no "Allegiant gates" to be taken over. During the bulk of the day, HNL is bursting with congestion and lack of gate space. Same for OGG, maybe even LIH. It will be interesting to see how WN will fit into this mess.

There will likely have to be more tow-offs than we see today. Some of the US/APAC legacy carriers have quite generous turn times. If WN keeps to their model of quick turns you could get 2-3 WN flights in and out within the turn time of a legacy carrier.

For Example UA902 NRT-HNL arrived today at 0710. UA903 HNL-NRT departs at 1105. That's 5 minutes shy of a 4 hour turn. All the while the aircraft sits at the gate. Most Asian arrivals are like this. Assuming WN can turn a 738 in 45 minutes you could get 3 WN flights in and out in 2hr15mn with ample time left to tow the legacy carriers aircraft back to the gate. Catering and servicing can always be accomplished from a hard stand.

What I'm curious about is HDOT's decision to build a brand new concourse from scratch when it seems cheaper to simply extend the Diamond Head concourse towards the North Hardstands.

77H

It appears that HA is scheduling inter-island runs between HNL-KOA/OGG/LIH starting later this month before the planes are used to start West Coast services.

I also read in Pacific Business News HA plans on starting OGG-SAN in May with the 21N. The article also states that some flights currently operated by the 332 like HNL-SFO, OGG-LAX will operate with the 21N.

The article also states the NRT-HNL will be operated by the 21N but that sounds like a mistake.

It appears that HA is targeting AS routes and perhaps grabbing what market share they can ahead of WN's entrance into the market. One thing for sure, the 321NEO is a game changer for HA.

77H

77H wrote:

It appears that HA is scheduling inter-island runs between HNL-KOA/OGG/LIH starting later this month before the planes are used to start West Coast services.

I also read in Pacific Business News HA plans on starting OGG-SAN in May with the 21N. The article also states that some flights currently operated by the 332 like HNL-SFO, OGG-LAX will operate with the 21N.

The article also states the NRT-HNL will be operated by the 21N but that sounds like a mistake.

It appears that HA is targeting AS routes and perhaps grabbing what market share they can ahead of WN's entrance into the market. One thing for sure, the 321NEO is a game changer for HA.

77H

The article is poorly worded. HNL-SFO is going double daily for summer with the A321 operating an eastbound redeye. I don’t know enough about outer island flying to know if SAN/OAK are resumptions, replacements or new routes. The A321 is absolutely a game-changer and a necessary step to ensure competitive advantage over AS/VX and the new WN, not to mention the big 3. SFO is a perfect example because it’s been daily for years (it not forever) but consistently full; yet clearly either not enough to go twice daily or because HA didn’t want to cannibalize OAK and maybe SJC. Now the A321 allows an incremental increase that, if successful, may go year round double daily either with a mix or both flights operating narrowbodies to free up an A330 for something longer. All this being said, HA is a relatively conservative airline. I think we’ll see a lot of dot connecting this year, especially outer island, and increase frequency; I’d be surprised to see a new station open. Happy to be wrong though!

The HNL-NRT route is obviously currently flying so they are adding a seasonal second daily A330 (third daily to Tokyo if you include HND, fourth daily Hawaii to Tokyo if you include KOA).

The only “new” flying would be the red-eye 2nd daily HNL-SFO and seasonal HNL-NRT. OGG-SAN flew in the past on a 767 and both KOA-OAK and OGG-LaX redeye flew on 767/330. I too foresee more connecting of the dots and resumption of old service, now that HA can right size capacity more appropriately.

HA is doing exactly as they said they would with the 321. A game changer indeed and will be nice to see HA take back market share they’ve perhaps lost to other carriers who have been offering a nonstop service on smaller planes, as opposed to connecting on HA via HNL.

obelau24 wrote:

77H wrote:

It appears that HA is scheduling inter-island runs between HNL-KOA/OGG/LIH starting later this month before the planes are used to start West Coast services.

I also read in Pacific Business News HA plans on starting OGG-SAN in May with the 21N. The article also states that some flights currently operated by the 332 like HNL-SFO, OGG-LAX will operate with the 21N.

The article also states the NRT-HNL will be operated by the 21N but that sounds like a mistake.

It appears that HA is targeting AS routes and perhaps grabbing what market share they can ahead of WN's entrance into the market. One thing for sure, the 321NEO is a game changer for HA.

77H

The article is poorly worded. HNL-SFO is going double daily for summer with the A321 operating an eastbound redeye. I don’t know enough about outer island flying to know if SAN/OAK are resumptions, replacements or new routes. The A321 is absolutely a game-changer and a necessary step to ensure competitive advantage over AS/VX and the new WN, not to mention the big 3. SFO is a perfect example because it’s been daily for years (it not forever) but consistently full; yet clearly either not enough to go twice daily or because HA didn’t want to cannibalize OAK and maybe SJC. Now the A321 allows an incremental increase that, if successful, may go year round double daily either with a mix or both flights operating narrowbodies to free up an A330 for something longer. All this being said, HA is a relatively conservative airline. I think we’ll see a lot of dot connecting this year, especially outer island, and increase frequency; I’d be surprised to see a new station open. Happy to be wrong though!

The HNL-NRT route is obviously currently flying so they are adding a seasonal second daily A330 (third daily to Tokyo if you include HND, fourth daily Hawaii to Tokyo if you include KOA).

Where is AS planning on sending their 321neo's? I had heard SFO/LAX-HNL/OGG were in the cards, is that no longer the plan?

Are they still going to build a commuter terminal after the shut down of Island Air? At least the HAL hangar is complete

kunta67 wrote:

Are they still going to build a commuter terminal after the shut down of Island Air? At least the HAL hangar is complete

I’m dying to know more about this. Construction work is continuing in the area past Gate 6 that is currently hardstands 2-5. Does anyone know if this will be a connected building, what it will look like (one level or two), or if it will be an extension to the terminal to increase number of gates? There’s no need for a commuter terminal anymore; although I suppose it might be shortsighted not to build one right now, Gate space for jets is more critical, especially with WN coming in. Working in cargo now, the commuter terminal is important to me because if it is actually built, that takes away hardstands and I want to know where Cargo and RON aircraft will park now that they’re gone.

HA has tried SAN-OGG about 3 - 4 different times in the past (all with the 767s of course) but the Company never seemed committed to the route. (IMHO. I know that's not what some others have said.) One of the announced permanent and daily start-ups (in 2006) was shut down after a short time because of a/c delivery delays, and HA yanked SAN's flight. The last time Pualani flew between SAN and OGG was in 2010.

This time, with the beautiful 321Neo, I hope the service will survive and prosper. Thinking of what AS offers, I wonder if SAN-LIH/KOA by HA are too far behind?

Speaking of AS, they will be flying daily to all 4 islands from SAN (and SJC) starting May 2018; some worthy pre-emptive thinking perhaps?

Nice to see some competition and growth happening (especially from HA!)

bb

An unidentified buyer is negotiating for WP's AOC.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/12/0 ... 8614d67237

HA's new hangar officially completed and occupied.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3706 ... 28m-hangar

Nice to see a few spare engines sitting on pallets.

The unidentified buyer of WP assets, and AOC, is ... HA's parent.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1381551
Ohana by Hawaiian to be brought in-house.

WP's former CEO reflects...
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/12/2 ... 41fbc423a5

In July 2017, "...the company was trying to sell plane parts, revising flight schedules, reducing overtime and considering not stocking some plane parts, according to Uchiyama."

Financial situation was even worse in September, 2017, when WP announced plans to begin HNL/ITO service.
http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/lo ... lo-flights

Reminiscent of Steve Jobs' "reality distortion field".

Does anyone know when they’re going to start to tear down the old Aloha and Hawaiian hangars? I was just home this past week and I saw Hawaiian using their new hangar.

Are the chances pretty high HA will downgauge HNL/OGG-SJC from the 76W to A321S and increase the frequency or perhaps utilize an A330 on the highest demand days on HNL-SJC and the A321S on other days? Is demand higher for OGG or HNL out of SJC? I suspect AS has KOA well covered with the nonstop they have.

I flew Island Air in October. Nothing I saw indicated they were that close to shutting down. Seemed to be capable (from the outside anyway). Although, walking all the way to the commuter terminal in HNL made me think it might be a rinky-dink operation. That inflatable hallway was a hoot. Not something you would expect at an International hub airport.

Speaking of HNL, I last flew through there in 82. It looked every bit of 30 years of neglect. The wiki-wiki bus had to make a lot of detours because the ramps and bridges between the terminals were crumbling and I could see where chunks had fallen out.
Eating dinner in the terminal, I had to walk around to find a table and/or seating that didn't have pigeon crap on them. [sarcasm] That's high on everyone's list of expectations for amenities at a US International hub airport. [/sarcasm] Between this and the bus ride, I felt I was in some third-world dump of an airport.

Does anyone know how the HAL A321 NEO's are handling the interisland hops so far? I've been looking at flightaware and it seems like most turns are about an hour long. Is that enough time for the engines to cool down?

qf789 wrote:

Heads up to HNL spotters for 17th October

Qantas will take delivery of their first 789 VH-ZNA on the 17th which is due to depart PAE around 12pm and get to HNL just after 2pm. The aircraft will then depart HNL at 2330 on the 18th for SYD. Flight number will be QF7879

What’s the point of the HNL stop ?

Max Q wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Heads up to HNL spotters for 17th October

Qantas will take delivery of their first 789 VH-ZNA on the 17th which is due to depart PAE around 12pm and get to HNL just after 2pm. The aircraft will then depart HNL at 2330 on the 18th for SYD. Flight number will be QF7879

What’s the point of the HNL stop ?

It was done for PR reasons, to get into SYD early morning

Please continue your discussion and to post your updates in the thread for 2018:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1383007

Thread will be locked.