AA markets not served from DFW

727LOVER · Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:49 am

Lower 48 only.

What markets does AA NOT serve from its mega hub @ DFW.....and W H Y?

qcpilotxf · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:02 am

Some of the smaller airports like DBQ wouldn't be able to support the larger aircraft required to operate to DFW. Some of the markets in question like CAK are LUS cities and just havent had a DFW added yet, or most of the traffic is going east and it doesn't require a DFW. The other hubs are more than big enough to support connections to most cities that not all cities need a DFW connection

dmstorm22 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:10 am

If you limit it to mainline it could become more interesting. Guessing there are a lot of airports that receive only RJs close to other hubs (regional NY/NE airports, for example).

One I found was Syracuse, which seems to have mainline service to CLT (per wiki).

Airplanebrain · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:12 am

Providence, Rhode Island. Served by Philadephia, Charlotte, Chicago and Dulles. No idea why DFW doesn't serve direct.

ericm2031 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:16 am

There's still some smaller CA cities served through PHX that don't have DFW flights but might be able to support it.

ucdtim17 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:17 am

OAK. Served in the past but dropped in the recession I believe and hasn't come back.

jasoncrh · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:20 am

Nantucket. Martha's Vineyard.

717atOGG · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:22 am

Buffalo, NY and Harrisburg, PA. I know that at least MDT was tried in the past. I think that if these, as well as PVD and OAK were added, would essentially cover all the major domestic markets out of DFW.

jplatts · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:27 am

AA does not serve BUR and OAK nonstop from DFW, but Southwest Airlines does serve BUR and OAK nonstop from DAL and Spirit Airlines also serves OAK nonstop from DFW.

AA does serve BFL, BUR, EUG, FLG, HMO, MFR, OAK, SBP, STS, YUM, and YEG nonstop from PHX, but not from DFW.

jplatts · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:30 am

AA does not currently serve MYR nonstop from DFW, but AA is going to be starting MYR-DFW nonstop service on December 24th.

nomorerjs · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:31 am

Now my local airport is taking after the LHR to US and DTW trolls!

PKW, RFD, GYY. This is starting to get ridiculous. There was a time when this forum was about aviation and routes, but now it’s about “why don’t we have flights to...,” and screw the mega hubs.

FWAERJ · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:36 am

TOL is served to ORD and now CLT, but not DFW. DFW was tried in the past, but with an ER4 that was payload restricted from TOL. AA didn't have much else back then, though, with the CR7 focused on ORD so the ERD and ER4 were all that was at DFW.

But now with the E175 and the CR9, AA could give TOL-DFW another chance if CLT is successful.

MIflyer12 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:38 am

727LOVER wrote:
Lower 48 only.

What markets does AA NOT serve from its mega hub @ DFW.....and W H Y?

Because other hubs are closer and give appropriate connectivity to the destinations sought. Because some routes are too far to be operated with small aircraft. Because there are important business/government links between XXX and YYY that may not exist comparably between XXX and DFW.

This is airline route planning 101 - maybe even career day stuff to children aspiring to be route planners.

orangeguy · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:44 am

There are a fair number of pmUS cities in the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast that aren't served by DFW including SBY, ROA, HHH, HVN, MDT, ALB, SCE, and MHT just to name a few. Most of these likely can't support that level of service from DFW-- perhaps ALB and MDT.

TripleA · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:03 am

Well if you're talking about any city/town in the lower 48 then that could be a lot. If we're talking about mid-size cities then that could narrow it down a bit. Of course I guess that also depends on what your definition of mid-size is. Whether we are talking cities like Toledo or Providence with several hundred thousand people or cities like Flagstaff with less than 100K.

BoeingGuy · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:23 am

jplatts wrote:
AA does not serve BUR and OAK nonstop from DFW, but Southwest Airlines does serve BUR and OAK nonstop from DAL and Spirit Airlines also serves OAK nonstop from DFW.

AA does serve BFL, BUR, EUG, FLG, HMO, MFR, OAK, SBP, STS, YUM, and YEG nonstop from PHX, but not from DFW.

Interestingly, AA has served many of those in the past from DFW: BFL, BUR, OAK, and YEG. I believe they once did EUG too. Also LGB, which you didn't list.

jlaforteza · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:24 am

Long Beach about 10 years ago had flights to DFW.

phluser · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:29 am

I'm most surprised by a lack of DFW-BUF. I'd like to see Spirit or maybe JetBlue offer it. Spirit because it's large in DFW and has a leisure market from there - there is a large Indian population in the Metroplex as well as upstate NY/Canada-Toronto and appeal of Niagara Falls (huge with Indians and people of brown skin). Or JetBlue as it services both cities and to increase it's size in both markets. It added BUF-LAX to be on good with Schumer so DFW would be another large market to offer. Southwest might be constrained at DAL but would be a good carrier for it as well with connections at DAL. I'd think once a LCC or ULCC offered the route, AA would be compelled to offer it as well.

AA should be covering DFW-OAK as well as I think it is ceding business to Southwest by not servicing it.

jasoncrh · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:30 am

AA does NOT fly to Providence from Dulles. That's American. Washington DC National, but not Dulles

Airplanebrain wrote:
Providence, Rhode Island. Served by Philadephia, Charlotte, Chicago and Dulles. No idea why DFW doesn't serve direct.

KICT · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:45 am

EYW, only via CLT, DCA, and MIA currently.

jplatts · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:59 am

AA does not serve ECP, but Southwest has nonstop service from DAL to ECP (and the DAL-ECP nonstop route is the only Southwest Airlines route out of DAL that is not in competition with AA). Will AA ever add service to ECP from DFW, CLT, and MIA?

American 767 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:01 am

Yes I remember back in the late 80s/early 90s when I was a student at RPI, American mainline served ALB from RDU and ORD but not DFW. And I noticed that no airline, not just American, offered nonstop flights from ALB to any place father than 800NM, ATL and ORD being the longest nonstop flights from ALB. I'm talking about 25 years ago, now maybe things have changed. Maybe there was a perimeter rule in ALB and SYR back then.

fraspotter · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:05 am

qcpilotxf wrote:
Some of the smaller airports like DBQ wouldn't be able to support the larger aircraft required to operate to DFW.

I think it has to do more with DBQ being closer to an ORD AA hub than anything. There simply aren't enough travelers out of DBQ in general to add further service beyond ERJ-145s to ORD. DSM on the other hand does have AA Eagle service to DFW among other places and has in the past sent ERJs to DFW so Iowa-TX on an ERJ145 isn't impossible. No need for a larger aircraft.

KBUF · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:14 am

None of BUF, ROC, SYR, and ALB have nonstop service to DFW. Heck, Upstate New York doesn't have any nonstop service to Texas whatsoever. It completely baffles me as to why.

B0pp0 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:20 am

KBUF wrote:
None of BUF, ROC, SYR, and ALB have nonstop service to DFW. Heck, Upstate New York doesn't have any nonstop service to Texas whatsoever. It completely baffles me as to why.

Didn't all but ALB have DFW service about a decade ago, the SYR-DFW flight being on an E145 pushed to its limits? I remember American's explanation of the lack of an ALB-DFW nonstop at that time being that it was just outside an E145's range.

BreezyIAH · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:54 am

BreezyIAH · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:55 am

CRW, GNV, AVL, EYW, SRQ..I'm reaching now

dc10lover · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:04 am

BreezyIAH wrote:
GEG?

AA does Spokane with an A319.

BreezyIAH · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:10 am

slcdeltarumd11 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:14 am

BUF, SYR, ROC, ALB, BTV notice a pattern here. All in the Northeast NY area 1,500 ish miles away from DFW. They all seem like possible but what does DFW open up for them specifically.

Lets take BTV for example it enjoys 2x daily to CLT and 2x daily to ATL operations in summer. That along with service to pretty much every northeastern business market you can one stop to almost everywhere on connections. The question would be are there enough people flying to the JACs, RNOs, ASEs, DURs, Fresno, Spokane random small mexican cities, etc etc places that are not served often from any of the northeast hubs or CLT or ATL that only DFW can satisfy. You are "overflying" as they say other hubs, i think that is just why AA doesn't operate them. Makes more sense to fly to the closer hubs and keep frequency up.

AA has a pretty decent operation at BTV:
9/20 random example, ORD is the missing piece
If AA added a daily EMB-175 for 1,500 miles sure they could fill it but they would probably need to reduce frequency on some other routes or fly smaller planes.

DCA 4x flights
CLT 2x flights
PHL 6x flights

BreezyIAH · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:19 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
Lower 48 only.

What markets does AA NOT serve from its mega hub @ DFW.....and W H Y?

Because other hubs are closer and give appropriate connectivity to the destinations sought. Because some routes are too far to be operated with small aircraft. Because there are important business/government links between XXX and YYY that may not exist comparably between XXX and DFW.

This is airline route planning 101 - maybe even career day stuff to children aspiring to be route planners.

That's not why ATL is the busiest airport in the world then because DL does just that?

IrishAyes · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:35 am

Domestic markets (may have missed a couple):

ABE
ALB
ALO
AGS
ART
ATW
AVL
AZO
BGR
BTV
BUF
CAK
CHO
CRW
DAB
DBQ
ERI
EUG
EWN
EYW
FLG
FLO
FNT
GNV
GEG
GRB
HHH
HPN
HTS
HVN
IFP
ITH
IPT
ISP
LAN
LSE
LYH
MDT
MHT
MLB
MLI
MFR
MRY
OAJ
PHF
PWM
RDM
ROA
ROC
RST
SBA
SBP
SBY
SCE
SGU
SRQ
STS
TOL
TRI
YUM

And here are INTL markets, just for S&Gs.

AKL
ANU
ATH
AUA
BAQ
BCN
BDA
BGI
BSB
CAP
CCS
CLO
CNF
CUR
DUB
EDI
GLA
GND
GYE
HAV
HMO
HND
HOG
KIN
LPB
LIS
MAN
MAO
MAR
MDE
MID
MUC
MVD
MXP
PAP
POP
SDQ
SKB
SNN
SNU
STI
SXM
SYD
TGU
UVF
VCE
VRA
VVI
ZRH

deltal1011man · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:45 am

727LOVER wrote:
Lower 48 only.

What markets does AA NOT serve from its mega hub @ DFW.....and W H Y?

AA doesn't fly to a lot of markets from DFW.

Why? Even the mega hubs like AA at DFW, DL at ATL, UA at ORD and even AA at CLT still don't have enough flow to market some routes, generally long and thin, worth is.

I will say, I am a little surprised AA hasn't started 76 seat flight on routes like DFW-BUF, PVD and OAK. Should all be something the E75 can do.

jetero · Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:00 am

Well that was cute IrishAyes. You need a job in network planning. Did you grow up in Dallas or something to make such ridiculousness?

uconn99 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:00 am

Airplanebrain wrote:
Providence, Rhode Island. Served by Philadephia, Charlotte, Chicago and Dulles. No idea why DFW doesn't serve direct.

Considering all the cities you mentioned are former US Airways hubs minus Chicago you have your answer, AA has never shown PVD much love with BOS right up the road. With the AA flight to ORD you still only have 2x CR7 flights. Also, like someone mentioned DCA is served from PVD, IAD would be on UA.

Didn't AA pull out of PVD completely at one point?

nascar1 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:26 am

BCN, I think it could work filling a 76W in a seasonal basis between April and October next season.

RWA380 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:18 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
jplatts wrote:
AA does not serve BUR and OAK nonstop from DFW, but Southwest Airlines does serve BUR and OAK nonstop from DAL and Spirit Airlines also serves OAK nonstop from DFW.

AA does serve BFL, BUR, EUG, FLG, HMO, MFR, OAK, SBP, STS, YUM, and YEG nonstop from PHX, but not from DFW.

Interestingly, AA has served many of those in the past from DFW: BFL, BUR, OAK, and YEG. I believe they once did EUG too. Also LGB, which you didn't list.

When AA started service to EUG in the mid 1980's I was a student at U of O & my family in the Portland area. It was $12 on the campus express buses on greyhound that left from the University & were non-stop to Portland, then AA was $20 one way & made a two hour bus ride into less than 30 minutes, so I flew it at the holidays & summer or just to head into Portland for an event for the night.

When the service originated it was 2 flights a day into Mahlon Sweet, one routed DFW-PDX-EUG & one routed ORD-PDX-EUG, both on the 727-100. Soon there was a single 727-100 & one daily 727-200. Once the MD-80's came & PDX being one of the first MD-80 cities, it switched to the M80 until AA cut the route in 86-87.

At one time there was a connecting flight via PDX from SEA to EUG on AA. Now AA serves EUG from PHX & LAX.

IrishAyes wrote:
Domestic markets (may have missed a couple):

ABE
ALB
ALO
AGS
ART
ATW
AVL
AZO
BGR
BTV
BUF
CAK
CHO
CRW
DAB
DBQ
ERI
EUG
EWN
EYW
FLG
FLO
FNT
GNV
GEG
GRB
HHH
HPN
HTS
HVN
IFP
ITH
IPT
ISP
LAN
LSE
LYH
MDT
MHT
MLB
MLI
MFR
MRY
OAJ
PHF
PWM
RDM
ROA
ROC
RST
SBA
SBP
SBY
SCE
SGU
SRQ
STS
TOL
TRI
YUM

And here are INTL markets, just for S&Gs.

AKL
ANU
ATH
AUA
BAQ
BCN
BDA
BGI
BSB
CAP
CCS
CLO
CNF
CUR
DUB
EDI
GLA
GND
GYE
HAV
HMO
HND
HOG
KIN
LPB
LIS
MAN
MAO
MAR
MDE
MID
MUC
MVD
MXP
PAP
POP
SDQ
SKB
SNN
SNU
STI
SXM
SYD
TGU
UVF
VCE
VRA
VVI
ZRH

Nice contribution to the subject matter, many of us appreciate the hard work & research that goes into a reply like yours. Bottom line, if every place could efficiently be served by the DFW hub, why would AA bother making as big of an effort in places like Chicago, Philadelphia, Phoenix or Charlotte?

DobboDobbo · Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:13 am

I believe AA served DFW-MAN for a period around the late 1990s and early 2000s. Can't remember what the loads were like, but obviously not enough to survive the 2001/2 crash in aviation demand.

There is demand for travel between the north of England and Texas, as SQ are showing into IAH, but this is stunted by UA's refusal to agree onward connections for passengers originating at MAN.

AA could offer that at DFW, but in light of AA cutting back their routes to MAN (now just PHL and ORD - they cut JFK) this is very unlikely.

United_fan · Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:07 pm

Eagle used to serve ROC with a CR7,but that was cancelled . As far as EYW,I think runway length is an issue @ EWY.

SyracuseAvGeek · Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:40 pm

United_fan wrote:
Eagle used to serve ROC with a CR7,but that was cancelled . As far as EYW,I think runway length is an issue @ EWY.

Eagle did the same thing for SYR but with a(n) E140. The route lasted about 4 months. It wasn't profitable because the plane had wait restrictions and was only allowed to carry ~30 people on the plane.

IrishAyes · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:35 pm

jetero wrote:
Well that was cute IrishAyes. You need a job in network planning. Did you grow up in Dallas or something to make such ridiculousness?

?

RWA380 wrote:
Nice contribution to the subject matter, many of us appreciate the hard work & research that goes into a reply like yours. Bottom line, if every place could efficiently be served by the DFW hub, why would AA bother making as big of an effort in places like Chicago, Philadelphia, Phoenix or Charlotte?

You are so very welcome. Always happy to provide something of value.

DiamondFlyer · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:44 pm

Personally, I'd love to see FLG get a DFW flight, as it would make it much easier to get to from anywhere east of there.

BoeingGuy · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:47 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
I believe AA served DFW-MAN for a period around the late 1990s and early 2000s. Can't remember what the loads were like, but obviously not enough to survive the 2001/2 crash in aviation demand.

There is demand for travel between the north of England and Texas, as SQ are showing into IAH, but this is stunted by UA's refusal to agree onward connections for passengers originating at MAN.

AA could offer that at DFW, but in light of AA cutting back their routes to MAN (now just PHL and ORD - they cut JFK) this is very unlikely.

There were several cities on his list that had previously been served non-stop from DFW. ZRH and CCS come to mind. We've already mentioned BFL, LGB, OAK, SBA, BUR, and YEG. Not sure if AA ever did DFW-FLG.

Personally I enjoy connecting through DFW. I've always been partial to AA for some reason and find DFW very manageable and a fun airport to connect at.

Remember too, this list just got a lot bigger after the US merger. If we were talking pmAA then I bet this list would be much shorter.

FSDan · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:52 pm

BreezyIAH wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
Lower 48 only.

What markets does AA NOT serve from its mega hub @ DFW.....and W H Y?

Because other hubs are closer and give appropriate connectivity to the destinations sought. Because some routes are too far to be operated with small aircraft. Because there are important business/government links between XXX and YYY that may not exist comparably between XXX and DFW.

This is airline route planning 101 - maybe even career day stuff to children aspiring to be route planners.

That's not why ATL is the busiest airport in the world then because DL does just that?

ATL is situated between Florida and the rest of the U.S. population, which makes it a great place for people to connect from just about any decent-sized U.S. city to Florida. If we're honest, ATL wouldn't be anywhere near the size it is if Florida didn't exist. Compare that to DFW, which is between most of the U.S. population and Texas/Mexico. At the present time XYZ small/medium city in the Northeast likely has much more demand to Florida than to Texas/Mexico, hence why ATL is connected to a bunch of smaller and farther away domestic markets than DFW.

That said, I do believe BUF, MDT, and PVD are seriously glaring holes in the AA DFW network. All would be doable with E75s, so hopefully they'll get added sometime in the not-too-distant future.

Buffalomatt1027 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:55 pm

717atOGG wrote:
Buffalo, NY and Harrisburg, PA. I know that at least MDT was tried in the past. I think that if these, as well as PVD and OAK were added, would essentially cover all the major domestic markets out of DFW.

Still surprised that Buffalo (BNIA) doesn't have service to Dallas. Either AA or even Southwest (Love Airport).

TucsonDave · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:10 pm

B0pp0 wrote:
KBUF wrote:
None of BUF, ROC, SYR, and ALB have nonstop service to DFW. Heck, Upstate New York doesn't have any nonstop service to Texas whatsoever. It completely baffles me as to why.

Didn't all but ALB have DFW service about a decade ago, the SYR-DFW flight being on an E145 pushed to its limits? I remember American's explanation of the lack of an ALB-DFW nonstop at that time being that it was just outside an E145's range.

If I recall correctly, SYR and ROC both had nonstop fights to/from DFW with a CR7, while BUF had Maddog service. I believe the distance and capacity were such that AA could make more money utilizing those aircraft on shorter flights (e.g., TUL, LIT, etc.), although SYR and ROC both had very respectable loads to/from DFW. I do recall reading about ALB being just outside the aircraft's range.

TWFlyGuy · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:19 pm

Some NC cities like Wilmington and Fayetteville come to mind that I haven't seen above. Same probably applies to stuff around PHL. Also, FNT served from ORD (for now) but not DFW.

ericm2031 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:22 pm

SBA and GEG are on that list but both have DFW flights now.

USAirALB · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:31 pm

B0pp0 wrote:
KBUF wrote:
None of BUF, ROC, SYR, and ALB have nonstop service to DFW. Heck, Upstate New York doesn't have any nonstop service to Texas whatsoever. It completely baffles me as to why.

Didn't all but ALB have DFW service about a decade ago, the SYR-DFW flight being on an E145 pushed to its limits? I remember American's explanation of the lack of an ALB-DFW nonstop at that time being that it was just outside an E145's range.

Yes, except the flights were on CR7s.

BUF was served (for a time-I believe CR7s also ran the route) on an MD80, while ROC and SYR were both served on CR7s. AA stated publically (I forget where, I'd have to search for it) that DFW-ALB couldn't be served profitably on a CR7 due to the range of the aircraft. IMHO, I wouldn't want to spend 4 hours on a cramped CR7 anyways.

jmw99ttu · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:43 pm

I believe AA used the lifting of restrictions at DAL as an excuse for cutting non-stops to PVD, BUF and LIM back in the early 2000s. They said they would have to use planes used on those routes to fly routes out of DAL.

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