DL to go all A330's on NYC-LHR From April 2018

OMAAbound · Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:07 pm

As part of a "product alignment" with Virgin Atlantic, All of Deltas NYC-LHR flights will switch to and A330 as of April next year.

4 flights per week will remain on the 767 due to lack of A330 availability.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the DL A330's have reverse herringbone seats? J guess this would somewhat align products with VS?

TropicalSky · Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:19 am

Wow that's interesting......what's your source?

clrd4t8koff · Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:31 am

All of VS J cabins are 1-2-1, all of DL J cabins are 1-2-1.

All of VS J cabins have bars, non of DL J cabins have bars.

How is moving to A330s any more "product aligned" than continuing to use 76W's?

deltal1011man · Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:32 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
All of VS J cabins are 1-2-1, all of DL J cabins are 1-2-1.

All of VS J cabins have bars, non of DL J cabins have bars.

How is moving to A330s any more "product aligned" than continuing to use 76W's?

The J seat on the 330 is much more comparable to the VS product than the 767 product

Cointrin330 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:03 am

Interesting....Is this partly due to DL taking deliveries of the additional A330-300's it ordered? Not exactly certain how adding the A330 on the JFK-LHR route aligns DL to VS. The seats may look similar but the on board products are very different in all classes.

xdlx · Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:53 am

If they Truly want to aling with the VS product line an order of B787-900 would be a good start :white:

Polot · Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:03 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
Interesting....Is this partly due to DL taking deliveries of the additional A330-300's it ordered? Not exactly certain how adding the A330 on the JFK-LHR route aligns DL to VS. The seats may look similar but the on board products are very different in all classes.

DL's last A333 was delivered back in April. They have no more on order.

AA100 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:29 am

This is less about product alignment and more about product enhancement in order for DL VS to offer better J products across both airlines. I don't think DL's 767 get a great rep and they are up against the likes of AA's J etc.

If DL want to be a player on LHR JFK they need a better product - especially from UK PoS

DL777200LR · Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:59 am

OMAAbound wrote:
As part of a "product alignment" with Virgin Atlantic, All of Deltas NYC-LHR flights will switch to and A330 as of April next year.

4 flights per week will remain on the 767 due to lack of A330 availability.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the DL A330's have reverse herringbone seats? J guess this would somewhat align products with VS?

I checked May and July,flights are still 76W, what's ur source on this switch?

jumbojet · Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:24 am

AA100 wrote:
This is less about product alignment and more about product enhancement in order for DL VS to offer better J products across both airlines. I don't think DL's 767 get a great rep and they are up against the likes of AA's J etc.

If DL want to be a player on LHR JFK they need a better product - especially from UK PoS

DL's 767s were a better aircraft when compared against the AA 777 before they went in for mods. Now that the AA 777 mods are complete, DL needed to do something and they did.. DL has for years had one of the best business class products on JFK-LHR as they had flatbed direct aisle access in J way before any of its US competitors. Now however, the tide has changed and DL is responding. Lets nor forget, DL's 767 flatbed product is already 7'ish years old so its been around for quite a bit of time already.

oldannyboy · Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:38 am

I think there's no denying that an A330 is (in terms of pax experience) a step up from a battered old 767... I know people love the 7-abreast in Y on the Boeing jet, but the Airbus is so much more comfortable...it's quieter, it rides turbulence better, the bins are bigger...

MIflyer12 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:00 pm

Delta still has 'high J' 767s in the schedule on a date in July. Making the move to A330s (332 or 333) means no extra Business seats but a lot more coach seats.

akelley728 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:22 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
I think there's no denying that an A330 is (in terms of pax experience) a step up from a battered old 767... I know people love the 7-abreast in Y on the Boeing jet, but the Airbus is so much more comfortable...it's quieter, it rides turbulence better, the bins are bigger...

Have you ever been in a Delta 767 recently? They are not 'battered and old' on the inside. All of them received nose-to-tail refurbishment with very comfortable seats and believe it or not, new bins very similar in style to the Boeing Sky Interior bins.

oldannyboy · Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:29 pm

akelley728 wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
I think there's no denying that an A330 is (in terms of pax experience) a step up from a battered old 767... I know people love the 7-abreast in Y on the Boeing jet, but the Airbus is so much more comfortable...it's quieter, it rides turbulence better, the bins are bigger...

Have you ever been in a Delta 767 recently? They are not 'battered and old' on the inside. All of them received nose-to-tail refurbishment with very comfortable seats and believe it or not, new bins very similar in style to the Boeing Sky Interior bins.

You are right. I take my comment back. They have nice new interiors. I was mentally picturing the battered cabins of a certain US rival... :silly:

Still, the 76 is a much older plane, the cabin is quite a bit narrower, it's a lot noisier esp at the back of the cabin, plus the 330 offers a bigger J cabin, which on the London run is very important.

jumbojet · Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:35 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
[
You are right. I take my comment back. They have nice new interiors. I was mentally picturing the battered cabins of a certain US rival...
Still, the 76 is a much older plane, the cabin is quite a bit narrower, it's a lot noisier esp at the back of the cabin, plus the 330 offers a bigger J cabin, which on the London run is very important.

I've been on some DL 767's in J that quite frankly, could use a cabin refresh and others that still look quite new. But at least they refurbished their 767's the right way. If you want to see the wrong way to do it, the arrow points to AA. I mean, no IFE in coach or business class. Coach still has overhead monitors, how cheap can one be? Major blunder right there. Last time I got handed a personal device in business class was way back in 2003 on a Czech Airlines A310 flight. :roll:

AWACSooner · Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:43 pm

xdlx wrote:
If they Truly want to aling with the VS product line an order of B787-900 would be a good start

Yah, I'm on the same boat as you...unfortunately, I guess they've decided to forsake the NW 78 order in favor of the other product.

Sightseer · Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:50 pm

jumbojet wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
[
You are right. I take my comment back. They have nice new interiors. I was mentally picturing the battered cabins of a certain US rival...
Still, the 76 is a much older plane, the cabin is quite a bit narrower, it's a lot noisier esp at the back of the cabin, plus the 330 offers a bigger J cabin, which on the London run is very important.

I've been on some DL 767's in J that quite frankly, could use a cabin refresh and others that still look quite new.

The 764s in particular are on the verge of being overdue for a refresh, IMO.

oldannyboy · Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:53 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
xdlx wrote:
If they Truly want to aling with the VS product line an order of B787-900 would be a good start

Yah, I'm on the same boat as you...unfortunately, I guess they've decided to forsake the NW 78 order in favor of the other product.

True, but don't tell me pax will be suffering atrociously for this... not sure how flying 'the other product' could in any way be worse than flying the 787??....

Back to topic.... the A330... Yes, I'd take that over a 9-abreast 787.

fcogafa · Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:54 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Still, the 76 is a much older plane, .

The B764's were delivered 2000 onwards, the A330s 2003 onwards, not all 'much older'

MIflyer12 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:01 pm

There are plenty of 767-300ERs in the schedule. 764s see lots of other routes. Some 763s are rather old - 1990-2001 deliveries. But, as noted above, all of the long-haul 763s got full AVOD and pivot bins.

oldannyboy · Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:07 pm

fcogafa wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Still, the 76 is a much older plane, .

The B764's were delivered 2000 onwards, the A330s 2003 onwards, not all 'much older'

Yes, but the 763s are way older than that. And even with the pivoting bins and the new lighting + seats they don't offer an onboard experience on a par with a newer A333.

Flighty · Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:15 pm

I thought the 767 actually had a fresher interior than Delta's 77L (in Y) but this was 2 years ago. LIke 6 month old seats versus 7 year old seats.

TedToToe · Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:31 pm

Can somebody explain what this would do to the seat count in each class?
I am probably in a minority here, but having flown both VS and DL in J between LHR and JFK, I preferred the DL 764!

klm617 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:32 pm

The 767-400 is one of the worst planes in the Delta fleet cramped along with the 738 and 739. Why would Delta not move all the flights to the A330 from LHR then.

tommy1808 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:43 pm

xdlx wrote:
If they Truly want to aling with the VS product line an order of B787-900 would be a good start

NYC-LON maybe about as much an A330 sweet spot as one can find. If the ever got 789, this probably wouldn't be where they send em.
If VS tossed one seat out of each Y-row, that cabin would also be more aligned.

Best regards
Thomas

tlecam · Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:57 pm

I fly VS 330, VS 789, DL 763, DL 764 and DL 333's across the pond fairly regularly - all of then within the past few months. I do not find a substantial difference between them that would drive any sort of flight decision. I do prefer all aisle access, which is how I got to flying Delta in the first place, years ago. But flight schedule will trump the aircraft type any day of the week for me.

Having said that, here are my observations:

VS 789 - the best all around experience, although on BOS or JFK to LHR, I make very little use of the extra amenities like the bar. I'm there to sleep so that I can wake up and work.

DL 333 - The best of the rest, mostly because the cabin seems newer and the seats are very comfy.

DL 763/764/ and VS333 - They're perfectly nice options. I like the 764 because of the L2 boarding option compared to the 763, but beyond that I don't really find any substantial benefits to one over the other.

ty97 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:20 pm

TedToToe wrote:
Can somebody explain what this would do to the seat count in each class?
I am probably in a minority here, but having flown both VS and DL in J between LHR and JFK, I preferred the DL 764!

NYC-LHR is operated by 'high-J' 763ERs which are 36 J, 32 W, 143 Y. A few of these have 29 W instead of 32 to allow for a crew rest space, but those aren't needed on the relatively short JFK-LHR so not sure how often (if ever) they appear on this route.

DL 332: 34 J, 32 W, 168 Y
DL 333: 34 J, 40 W, 219 Y

FSDan · Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:27 pm

I too would like to know the source for this, although I don't doubt it. I'd guess this will be mostly on the 332 as that's not too great a jump in capacity from the current 763. With the 744s retiring and 359s coming online the 332s are getting moved around the network a bit. DTW-PEK will be replaced by the 359, SEA-HKG will be replaced by the 77E, and the 332 will be on ATL-LOS and JFK-LOS. I'm guessing there will be fewer 332s through AMS as a result of the shuffling. I also wouldn't be surprised if JFK-GRU moved to the 332. We'll see, though.

tommy1808 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:19 pm

xdlx wrote:
If they Truly want to aling with the VS product line an order of B787-900 would be a good start

NYC-LON maybe about as much an A330 sweet spot as one can find. If the ever got 789, this probably wouldn't be where they send em.
If VS tossed one seat out of each Y-row, that cabin would also be more aligned.

Best regards
Thomas

OA412 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:37 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Yes, but the 763s are way older than that. And even with the pivoting bins and the new lighting + seats they don't offer an onboard experience on a par with a newer A333.

Surprisingly not. Certainly in terms of tech, etc., they are, but DL actually received quite a number of 763s well into the late 90s up until, IIRC, 2001 or so.

Sightseer wrote:
The 764s in particular are on the verge of being overdue for a refresh, IMO.

I haven't been on one, but I wouldn't be surprised. They were the very first 767s to be refreshed (perhaps the first DL widebody, I can't quite recall), so I imagine they are very much in need of refreshing.

BAINY3 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:45 pm

I wonder where the A330s for this are coming from elsewhere in the schedule.

CaliguyNYC · Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:47 pm

I think DL's A330's are their best J class. The 767's need a refresh. The IFE screens are too small and the seats don't always function well. In general I feel like DL needs to upgrade their Delta One offering. I fly them quite a bit transcon and also the EU. To be honest, I am bored of their food. It seems the same old same old (chicken, beef and pasta). I feel like I am stuck in in a wedding during meals. AA/BA etc all offer different types of meals (meaning one ethnic meal choice that is not necessarily native to the country you are flying to). Plus if you fly more than 2 X 6 hour flights with DL in a month, you run out of movies (many months but not all).

tjh8402 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:50 pm

BAINY3 wrote:
I wonder where the A330s for this are coming from elsewhere in the schedule.

Isn't DL continuing to take delivery of new A333s?

Polot · Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:54 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
BAINY3 wrote:
I wonder where the A330s for this are coming from elsewhere in the schedule.

Isn't DL continuing to take delivery of new A333s?

No. As I mentioned earlier DL has taken delivery of all their new A333s and has none left on order.

sk736 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:21 pm

How can "all" DL's flights be switching to the A330 if some are still being operated by the 767?

kaitak · Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:23 pm

When are the first A330 Neos coming? Weren't they ordered at the same time as the A350s?

Polot · Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:36 pm

kaitak wrote:
When are the first A330 Neos coming? Weren't they ordered at the same time as the A350s?

Yes the A330neos were ordered the same time as the A350s, but DL doesn't take it's first one until 2019.

Sightseer · Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:15 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Plus if you fly more than 2 X 6 hour flights with DL in a month, you run out of movies (many months but not all).

What plane are you flying? DL's current IFE has hundreds of movies.

Narfish641 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:15 pm

sk736 wrote:
How can "all" DL's flights be switching to the A330 if some are still being operated by the 767?

Call me stupid, but is this because of the retirement of the 763ERs? I know Delta had announced it at the end of last year, so maybe it could the reason for it. If I'm not mistaken a couple of aircrafts are supposed to be going to the desert next year.

As for the change, its a major upgrade. With the fact being that the A330s are way larger than the 767s. More passenegrs, 2 extra lavs, flies a bit faster, and if not mistaken the A330 is alot quieter. I think it cool imho.

CaliguyNYC · Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:41 pm

Sightseer wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Plus if you fly more than 2 X 6 hour flights with DL in a month, you run out of movies (many months but not all).

What plane are you flying? DL's current IFE has hundreds of movies.

Sometimes I get a 767/757 that have a lot less movies than other widebodies. Can't explain why. Maybe its an aircraft that flies domestic as well as international?

Slash787 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:44 pm

A330 is a great choice

sxf24 · Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:58 pm

[threeid][/threeid]

Sightseer wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Plus if you fly more than 2 X 6 hour flights with DL in a month, you run out of movies (many months but not all).

What plane are you flying? DL's current IFE has hundreds of movies.

The movies don't change that often - maybe 25-30% new each month.

MIflyer12 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:13 am

OA412 wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Yes, but the 763s are way older than that. And even with the pivoting bins and the new lighting + seats they don't offer an onboard experience on a par with a newer A333.

Surprisingly not. Certainly in terms of tech, etc., they are, but DL actually received quite a number of 763s well into the late 90s up until, IIRC, 2001 or so.
Sightseer wrote:
The 764s in particular are on the verge of being overdue for a refresh, IMO.

I haven't been on one, but I wouldn't be surprised. They were the very first 767s to be refreshed (perhaps the first DL widebody, I can't quite recall), so I imagine they are very much in need of refreshing.

The 77Ls were the first DL aircraft to be delivered with lie-flats. I believe the 764s were the first to be refitted with lie-flats, starting circa 2010.

One can complain about seven years passing without another thorough refurb. We can also recognize that AA just finished its first lie-flats on the 777s, a task that took more than five years.

dmstorm22 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:43 am

sxf24 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
Sightseer wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Plus if you fly more than 2 X 6 hour flights with DL in a month, you run out of movies (many months but not all).

What plane are you flying? DL's current IFE has hundreds of movies.

The movies don't change that often - maybe 25-30% new each month.

Yes, but if you're flying just 2x6 hour flights (12 hours total) 25-30% new movies would surely be enough.

Random, but I remember flying E175/190s on Air Canada from EWR-YYZ twice a week. They would rotate like 4-5 movies a month, which was perfect. Just enough time to watch each, split over two flights.

TW870 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:23 am

Is there a source for this? I only ask because the schedules I see still show the 767-300ER on all 3 daily flights that I can see. I agree that the A330's biz product is more spacious and thus more competitive, but this would be a big overall seat increase for the Delta-Virgin joint venture unless Virgin reduces capacity. It would probably be easy for Delta to fund this A330 JFK-LHR flying by slightly reducing AMS and CDG A330 capacity across the system and balancing with the KL/AF/AZ joint venture. But so far I just can't see any days where they scheduled this.

rbavfan · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:29 am

klm617 wrote:
The 767-400 is one of the worst planes in the Delta fleet cramped along with the 738 and 739. Why would Delta not move all the flights to the A330 from LHR then.

764 has the same wider 7x seats that the 763 has both are similar width seat bottoms to the A330 8x seats. The 738/739 are at least 1" narrower seats. so how is the 764 more cramped than the A330.

rbavfan · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:34 am

kaitak wrote:
When are the first A330 Neos coming? Weren't they ordered at the same time as the A350s?

On JFK-LHR the A330neo would have no advantage over the A330ceo due to less than 4000nm range which is where the A330neo becomes more efficient due to greater op weights. They need to be on the longer routes. Why would DL pay a premium on the airframe cost to replace a A330 on a shorter route?

XLA2008 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:53 am

I have to say... I’ve flown both A330 and B764 with Delta transatlantic, both in Y and the 764 was one of the worst flights with any airline I’ve ever travelled! Granted last trip on the 764 was probably 6/7 years ago, but at the time it put me off of ever flying delta again, it was cramped and uncomfortable and just generally a really unpleasant experience for 10 hours, however I gave DL another shot flying on the A330, it was comfortable, spacious, smooth, a huge difference from the B764! So I understand what people are saying when they say the B764 is cramped and uncomfortable... again the 764 and 330 where 6 years apart and the 330 had the new cabin so maybe the 764’s are different now, however I still avoid the 764 TATL and will always book the 330! However I always fly F or J unless I have no choice.

kabq737 · Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:58 am

akelley728 wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
I think there's no denying that an A330 is (in terms of pax experience) a step up from a battered old 767... I know people love the 7-abreast in Y on the Boeing jet, but the Airbus is so much more comfortable...it's quieter, it rides turbulence better, the bins are bigger...

Have you ever been in a Delta 767 recently? They are not 'battered and old' on the inside. All of them received nose-to-tail refurbishment with very comfortable seats and believe it or not, new bins very similar in style to the Boeing Sky Interior bins.

I was on a Delta 767-400 this summer and it was most certainly old and battered. Worn out seats and one of the worst IFE systems I’ve ever used both ways. Are the 764s different than the 763s?

It’s worth noting that those complaints are coming from a big Delta fan who generally likes their seats, IFE, and cabin service...

deltal1011man · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:30 am

kabq737 wrote:
akelley728 wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
I think there's no denying that an A330 is (in terms of pax experience) a step up from a battered old 767... I know people love the 7-abreast in Y on the Boeing jet, but the Airbus is so much more comfortable...it's quieter, it rides turbulence better, the bins are bigger...

Have you ever been in a Delta 767 recently? They are not 'battered and old' on the inside. All of them received nose-to-tail refurbishment with very comfortable seats and believe it or not, new bins very similar in style to the Boeing Sky Interior bins.

I was on a Delta 767-400 this summer and it was most certainly old and battered. Worn out seats and one of the worst IFE systems I’ve ever used both ways. Are the 764s different than the 763s?

It’s worth noting that those complaints are coming from a big Delta fan who generally likes their seats, IFE, and cabin service...

Yes. the 764 is the first gen of the lie-flat and full AVOD.

good news is they and the 777s will be getting cabin mods done starting this winter IIRC.

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