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Planesmart
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:37 am

Would airlines and Auckland passengers be prepared to fund a second pipeline?

More relevant questions. Why has a new pipeline not already been laid to meet higher consumption, rather than just upping pressure? And second, why fuel storage in close proximity to the airport, hasn't grown in line with consumption?
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:46 am

I expect upping pressure is the vastly cheaper and simpler option.

Why go through the planning and expense of laying another pipe if the current one is capable of being run at a higher pressure. Note, the pipe was capable of this if it wasn't damaged.

As for the airilnes and passengers picking up the cost? That's what it would come down to. As a passenger do you want to spend more for a ticket or run the risk that your flight is messed about with dur to a shortage. Risk vs cost.

I would expect there are a lot of airports around the world that have similar risks with regards to supply.
 
NZ321
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:51 am

Understand now. Thanks for the clarification.
 
AVFCdownunder
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:08 pm

BREECH wrote:
I have two questions.

One. How damn big is that digger to sever a steel pipe? Or how small is that pipeline to be severed by a digger? And whose brilliant idea was it to not build a backup?

And two. How hard can it be to deliver fuel by trucks? The fuel line starts somewhere, right? Load it onto trucks, drive, unload. They have some pretty big trucks downunder and an enormous trucking industry. One "road train" will be good for a A380, 3-4 A330s and a whole flock of A320s. Not the most economical solution, but better than facing law suits and penalties for contractual breaches, and "reputational losses".


Question one is a fair point.

Re question two, I presume that is how they are getting the limited resources to the airport at the moment, although not in the huge volume needed. Firstly, road trains are something you'll only see in rural Australia, not NZ. From what I understand the issue lies north of Auckland. The airport is in the south of the city so to truck the fuel from the Marsden Point refinery, bypass the broken pipe and get to the airport, the tankers would have to go right through the heart of the city and New Zealand's most populated area. It looks like they are doing that to an extent as there is no indication of fuel running out completely, just supply is not meeting demand.
 
DavidJ08
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:15 pm

Planesmart wrote:
Would airlines and Auckland passengers be prepared to fund a second pipeline?

More relevant questions. Why has a new pipeline not already been laid to meet higher consumption, rather than just upping pressure? And second, why fuel storage in close proximity to the airport, hasn't grown in line with consumption?

Keep in mind that the pipeline doesn't just supply Auckland Airport, it also supplies consumer products - petrol and diesel, they pump through different fuels at different times. Source from pipeline owner/operator: http://www.refiningnz.com/environment-- ... facts.aspx

This makes me think that the current pipeline is adequate, and I haven't seen anything to say that they increased the pressure recently. I don't think consumption is the issue at hand here, it's more the fact that there is a lack of redundancy in the event the pipeline is disrupted. [EDIT: the below report indicates the pipeline was (is?) running at 85% current capacity.]

Through one of the media articles I found a link to the 2012 Oil Security Review which has a couple of interesting reads: http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/s ... eview-2012

From it, I'm gathering that what's currently happening is in fact what they said would happen in the event of a short-term Refinery-Auckland Pipeline (RAP) disruption - that Auckland's consumer fuels would be supplied by diverting half the truck fleet (which normally distribute fuel from the Wiri terminal to retail outlets) to do linehaul between Marsden Point and Auckland, while the jet fuel trucking would be impractical so tankering by aircraft was deemed the preferred option - from WLG and CHC for domestic flights and refuel stops in locations like NAN, BNE, MEL for international flights.

So what we're seeing is the disruption scenario on paper playing out in real life - with inconvenience and scheduling issues being the main consequences, and some flight cancellations as airlines seek to consolidate loads and conserve fuel.
 
cskok8
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:29 pm

What is NZ 30 (AKL-EZE) doing? Don't think there is any place to refuel
 
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Brixerl
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:41 pm

Question to the locals:

1) Was there anytime discussed to send a tanker with Jet-A to the ports of Auckland. Street distance to the Air BP Bulk Fuel Depot at Auckland Airport would be some thirty Kilometers, 30 to 40 minutes driving time for tank trucks.

2) Some of you critisized, that there is no backup. The cut fuel Pipeline passes, coming from the North, somewhere not that far away from ports of Auckland. Wouldn't it be a cost sensitive backup to extend that Pipeline to the ports of Auckland. In an emergency like this you can send a tanker in the future as described in paragraph 1 and pump the Jet-A from the Auckland port to the Airport.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:08 pm

Brixerl wrote:
Question to the locals:

1) Was there anytime discussed to send a tanker with Jet-A to the ports of Auckland. Street distance to the Air BP Bulk Fuel Depot at Auckland Airport would be some thirty Kilometers, 30 to 40 minutes driving time for tank trucks.

As I understand it, that is what is being looked at.

Brixerl wrote:
2) Some of you critisized, that there is no backup. The cut fuel Pipeline passes, coming from the North, somewhere not that far away from ports of Auckland. Wouldn't it be a cost sensitive backup to extend that Pipeline to the ports of Auckland. In an emergency like this you can send a tanker in the future as described in paragraph 1 and pump the Jet-A from the Auckland port to the Airport.

Pootentially, although again it is worth pointing out that while aviation is the most affected at present, this isn't an aviation specific pipeline:

DavidJ08 wrote:
Keep in mind that the pipeline doesn't just supply Auckland Airport, it also supplies consumer products - petrol and diesel, they pump through different fuels at different times. Source from pipeline owner/operator: http://www.refiningnz.com/environment-- ... facts.aspx


A minor quibble too: we don't use Jet A here, it is Jet A-1. Jet A is pretty much limited to the USA.

V/F
 
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zkojq
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:27 pm

Hilarious that this would happen on the week of an election! You can see how pained the Prime Minister and Judith Collins are about this fact at every media briefing they do. :rotfl:

The line we're getting from the government is interesting. Paraphrasing; "This isn't our fault, the pipeline is owned by a private company and it's maintenance/upkeep is up to the owners. Once this is over, we're going to make this private company make the appropriate changes".

As far as the best response (long term), I guess that would involve having the relevant equipment and materials to be able to repair such emergency damage in less than two weeks. How does it take so long to fix a 17meter long stretch of pipe? Maybe there a Resource Concent application involved :rotfl: ?

BREECH wrote:
You seem to know the location. How far are they actually pumping? What's the starting point of that pipe?

From here:
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-35.8434 ... l=en&hl=en

To here:
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-37.0066 ... l=en&hl=en

CARST wrote:
Living in Germany, I'd argue most things are done here with a lot of planning, and no one is digging here without knowing what is underground.

New Zealand is the opposite. "She'll be right, mate!"

NZ321 wrote:
With Pacific nations also running low then this surely further complicates things.

It seemed obvious that an three extra 77Ws per night into Nadi (LAX x2 + SFO) would deplete their fuel supply pretty quickly.

NZ321 wrote:
I don't understand the text above "Air NZ is currently not meeting its target of 30% less of its normal fuel intake"

Please can someone enlighten me?

Fuel rationing is in place, so airlines are only allowed ~30% of their prior fuel use. Easier for some airlines than others; as we saw earlier Air New Zealand can use their widebody fleet to tanker around fuel from the other side of the Tasman as well as Wellington. Virgin doesn't have that ability and Qantas only has a couple of daily A330-200s flying into AKL.

cskok8 wrote:
What is NZ 30 (AKL-EZE) doing? Don't think there is any place to refuel

LAN800 has been using PPT for the last couple of days. Quite a long way off the GC route between AKL and SCL; pretty awful for the SYD pax who end up with a much longer SYD-AKL-PPT-SCL routing (assuming that SCL is even their final destination). Presumably NZ30 would use PPT too?
 
DavidJ08
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:47 pm

zkojq wrote:
As far as the best response (long term), I guess that would involve having the relevant equipment and materials to be able to repair such emergency damage in less than two weeks. How does it take so long to fix a 17meter long stretch of pipe? Maybe there a Resource Concent application involved :rotfl: ?

It's quite funny how the Refinery-Auckland Pipeline Contingency report actually talks about Refining NZ keeping such and such amount of spare pipe and contract to access specialist welders etc etc, only to end up having to fly in experts to have the repair work certified. I remember reading something about having to clean up the spilled fuel and replace the fuel-contaminated soil before they could get at the pipe so that'll keep them busy too. (That or a resource consent :rotfl: )


zkojq wrote:
LAN800 has been using PPT for the last couple of days. Quite a long way off the GC route between AKL and SCL; pretty awful for the SYD pax who end up with a much longer SYD-AKL-PPT-SCL routing (assuming that SCL is even their final destination). Presumably NZ30 would use PPT too?

NZ30 might actually be okay - Air NZ seems to be using their 30% fairly smartly - they have a couple of long-hauls a day that get the full fuel load from AKL, NZ2 the flagship gets to go direct to LAX, and it's been NZ282 to SIN - but it could just as easily be NZ2 and NZ30, and make NZ282 refuel in Oz which is a bit more along the way.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:19 pm

Brixerl wrote:
Question to the locals:

1) Was there anytime discussed to send a tanker with Jet-A to the ports of Auckland. Street distance to the Air BP Bulk Fuel Depot at Auckland Airport would be some thirty Kilometers, 30 to 40 minutes driving time for tank trucks.


Only problem with that as I understand is the tanks need to be cleaned before loading of jet fuel if the tank has stored some other fuel. I don't know how they deal with that in the pipeline though I expect the switch is enough to meet any cleanliness standards.

So you'd need to get a tanker, clean out the tanks to the point you can carry the new cargo, then do the transport. Possibly with any other handling at the other end having to meet the cleanliness levels.

At the moment the RNZN is using the fleet supply ship HMNZS Endeavour to move diesel to Auckland to free up trucks for the Jet A-1.
 
Oilman
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:56 pm

It's quite funny how the Refinery-Auckland Pipeline Contingency report actually talks about Refining NZ keeping such and such amount of spare pipe and contract to access specialist welders etc etc, only to end up having to fly in experts to have the repair work certified. I remember reading something about having to clean up the spilled fuel and replace the fuel-contaminated soil before they could get at the pipe so that'll keep them busy too. (That or a resource consent :rotfl: )


I am an oil pipeliner and this contingency plan is pretty much the standard worldwide. Additionally, airports in the US are almost always served by a single line. The backup is for airlines to tanker fuel. Sometimes you may have tank farm with a truck rack nearby that serves GA airports. You can divert those trucks to the commercial airport, but then the airport needs equipment to offload trucks

The guy in the digger is lucky to be alive. Something similar happened in th US in Alabama last Halloween and the explosion cost two workers their lives. The pressures in these lines can be quite high, regardless of pipeline diameter. The pressures can be as high as 350 psi and as low as 25 psi.

Regards
 
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seat55a
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:02 pm

zeke wrote:
seat55a wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
[
More seriously, where in OZ do that many tanker road trains operate? Does Jet A come to Alice by road?

I'd be very surprised if they have enough spare ones to make a dent (even supposing the NZ roads could take them).


Most Australian airports air supplied by truck. There is also a number of B double road tankers in NZ already. It would take longer to load/unload a truck than it would take to drive.

Perhaps the NZ government is misinformed when they say that trucking the fuel from the refinery is not practical? They love trucks excessively and if it could be done they would be very much for it.

Don't forget this drama affects all petroleum supplies to Auckland city. The tankers available are not able to keep up.

Also I'd be astonished if the long-haul airports in OZ are supplied by truck. Just too many tonnes of fuel per flight.
 
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atypical
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:50 pm

skyhawkmatthew wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
Can somebody tell me why aircraft needs to dump fuel before emergency landing, which I assume is to reduce landing weight for a safe landing, but in this case they are carrying more fuel to the next airport in order to fly back?


In this case, as you have surmised, flights are “tankering” fuel through AKL, e.g. loading fuel in SIN to fly SIN-AKL-SYD or whatever the case may be. Depending on the aircraft, and the amount of fuel needed to get back to SYD/BNE/CNS, this may result in a significant payload penalty in order to arrive in AKL below maximum landing weight.

In the example of a 777-300ER, there is about a 14 tonne margin between maximum zero-fuel weight and maximum landing weight. Thus, if we need more than 14 tonnes on board departing AKL to fly back to Australia (which we would), the maximum payload heading to AKL would need to be limited in order to load extra fuel and still be below maximum landing weight on arrival in AKL.


Just to restate simply, Maximum Take-Off Weight (MTOW) is generally higher than Maximum Landing Weight (MLW). Most aircraft cannot dump fuel but must fly long enough to burn enough fuel to land safely.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:19 pm

Some more details on what might have led up to this shemozzle:

Swamp kauri mining at fuel site was years ago - neighbours

The Northland property where the Marsden-to-Wiri fuel pipeline was broken was mined for swamp kauri two to three years ago, neighbours say.

Refining New Zealand believes its pipeline was scraped by a digger some time ago, at Ruakaka, leading to corrosion that caused it to fail last Thursday.

....

A veteran of the swamp kauri industry, Milton Randell, had reported seeing a kauri dig in progress near Ruakaka last Wednesday, the day before the pipe broke, at what he later assumed was the site of the break. But Mr Randell told RNZ that on reflection, the dig he spotted as he drove to Waipu may not have been at the pipeline site.

RNZ has confirmed that the earth around the pipeline was undisturbed when the refinery discovered the break on Thursday.

Full article: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/ ... neighbours

V/F
 
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LamboAston
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:07 am

cskok8 wrote:
What is NZ 30 (AKL-EZE) doing? Don't think there is any place to refuel

I heard PPT
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:39 am

LamboAston wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
What is NZ 30 (AKL-EZE) doing? Don't think there is any place to refuel

I heard PPT


According to a hearld link the aircraft will do a positioning run to WLG to fill up enough to do AKL-EZE non stop.
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:58 am

ZK-NZF will operate the EZE and is indeed positioning to WLG as I type.
 
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LamboAston
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:33 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
What is NZ 30 (AKL-EZE) doing? Don't think there is any place to refuel

I heard PPT


According to a hearld link the aircraft will do a positioning run to WLG to fill up enough to do AKL-EZE non stop.

In WLG now
 
DavidJ08
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:54 pm

seat55a wrote:
Perhaps the NZ government is misinformed when they say that trucking the fuel from the refinery is not practical? They love trucks excessively and if it could be done they would be very much for it.

I think it's the fact that the refinery is a 2+ hour drive away (each way) making the roundtrip conceivably 6+ hours with loading and unloading, so each truck can do no more than 4 truckloads of fuel in 24 hours, whereas AKL sees no less than 20 long haul departures a day (direct flights only - haven't counted ones that make scheduled stops in Aus anyway), some requiring up to 8 trucks worth of fuel for a single plane, which means too many trucks and drivers are needed - at a time when trucking resources are already stretched thin to keep petrol and diesel supplied to Auckland city. (And importing trucks and drivers would take too long to help a 10-day outage, by the time the imports get here the pipeline will be running again.)

For comparison, Christchurch airport gets fuel trucked in from the fuel facility in Woolston, some 20-25min drive away - but over here we get at most 3 heavies a day in winter (SQ 777-200ER, EK A380, CZ 787-8) and 4-5 in summer, and the EK A380 (and the summer CI A330) doesn't take as much fuel as it goes via SYD.



In other news, some more details emerge on the nature of the pipeline breakage as the CEO of Refining NZ (owner of the pipeline) talks to the media: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... since-2014

Reading it I'm still not clear on whether the damage occurred recently - they say the damage could have occurred at any time since the last inspection in 2014, but also that corrosion may not have been an issue? Am I interpreting correctly that the digger damage did not rupture the pipeline at the time, but started a damaging process that eventually led to rupturing last Thursday?
 
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seat55a
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:05 pm

DavidJ08 wrote:
[ Am I interpreting correctly that the digger damage did not rupture the pipeline at the time, but started a damaging process that eventually led to rupturing last Thursday?

Various reports today suggest they actually don't know when but lean towards recent. They are really expecting the digger operator to come forward or to be dobbed in, but that person is in for a bad time if they do become known.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:41 pm

Aviation fuel tanker to hit road for Auckland

The first of a fleet of tankers will hit the road today to transport jet fuel to Auckland Airport, as airlines say the worst of the disruption is over.

...

Mobil Oil New Zealand manager Andrew McNaught, speaking for major fuel companies, said a fully laden tanker would leave Marsden Point oil refinery near Whangarei this afternoon on a test run.

Eventually, six to eight trucks would deliver aviation fuel to the airport.

The refinery has built a special loading dock for the vehicles and six army drivers have been brought in to help.

It took seven tankers to fill one jet, and Mr McNaught said rationing by airlines was still the principal way to manage the shortage and the fuel being trucked in would complement that.

Full article (with more details): http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/ ... r-auckland

V/F
 
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LamboAston
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:44 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
Aviation fuel tanker to hit road for Auckland

The first of a fleet of tankers will hit the road today to transport jet fuel to Auckland Airport, as airlines say the worst of the disruption is over.

...

Mobil Oil New Zealand manager Andrew McNaught, speaking for major fuel companies, said a fully laden tanker would leave Marsden Point oil refinery near Whangarei this afternoon on a test run.

Eventually, six to eight trucks would deliver aviation fuel to the airport.

The refinery has built a special loading dock for the vehicles and six army drivers have been brought in to help.

It took seven tankers to fill one jet, and Mr McNaught said rationing by airlines was still the principal way to manage the shortage and the fuel being trucked in would complement that.

Full article (with more details): http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/ ... r-auckland

V/F

About time. Surprised it took so long
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:45 am

QR seems not to be stopping today... already well to the NW of Adelaide.
 
joffie
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:56 am

QR921 stopped in ADL the last couple of days, before that, MEL.
 
zkncj
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:58 am

joffie wrote:
QR921 stopped in ADL the last couple of days, before that, MEL.


Looks like it stopped in ADL today - https://flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR921
 
zkncj
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:00 am

A1244/17 - AD OPERATIONAL BUT CTN ADZ DUE LTD FUEL AVBL. FUEL FOR SCHEDULED
FLIGHTS IS AVBL. NON-SCHEDULED FLIGHTS ARE TO MAKE PRIOR
ARRANGEMENTS WITH THE FOLLOWING FUEL SUPPLIERS ON EMAIL:
-PACIFIC ENERGY, EMAIL: RAJNESH.PRASAD AT P.ENERGY PHONE: 679 7757602
OR
-EXXON MOBIL, EMAIL: JOHN.V.MAARTENSZ AT EXXONMOBIL.COM PHONE:
61438700023. 18 SEP 04:59 2017 UNTIL 30 SEP 17:00 2017. CREATED: 18 SEP 04:59
2017


Looks like NAN currently has an NOTMAN out regarding lower than usual fuel stocks. Looks like NZ might not be to welcome stopping there now.
 
 
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qf789
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:24 am

Some photos of transfer of fuel from QF 744 to 738's and JQ A320

Image

Image

Image

http://australianaviation.com.au/2017/0 ... -auckland/
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:49 am

LamboAston wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
Aviation fuel tanker to hit road for Auckland

The first of a fleet of tankers will hit the road today to transport jet fuel to Auckland Airport, as airlines say the worst of the disruption is over.

...

Mobil Oil New Zealand manager Andrew McNaught, speaking for major fuel companies, said a fully laden tanker would leave Marsden Point oil refinery near Whangarei this afternoon on a test run.

Eventually, six to eight trucks would deliver aviation fuel to the airport.

The refinery has built a special loading dock for the vehicles and six army drivers have been brought in to help.

It took seven tankers to fill one jet, and Mr McNaught said rationing by airlines was still the principal way to manage the shortage and the fuel being trucked in would complement that.

Full article (with more details): http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/ ... r-auckland

V/F

About time. Surprised it took so long


This article is the first to imply that Endeavour is moving Jet A-1. Later in the article and in all the others I've seen they mention Endeavour is moving diesel. Which is useful as it frees up trucks to move Jet A-1.

And using Endeavour was mentioned a couple days ago. It takes a bit of time to get everything prepared for such a change.

Navy ship HMNZS Endeavour will sail from Devonport this morning to pick up almost five million litres of diesel from Marsden Point, freeing up dozens of commercial tankers to concentrate on moving aviation fuel.
 
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77west
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:51 am

I take it the fuel offloaded from the 747 is only usable in company (QF, JQ) aircraft and not other airlines? Also - how often, if ever, has this been done before; direct airplane-to-airplane transfers? Maybe NZ should send a few 77W down to WLG or CHC to bring back some fuel for their A320s.
 
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SAAFNAV
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:55 am

BREECH wrote:
I have two questions.

One. How damn big is that digger to sever a steel pipe? Or how small is that pipeline to be severed by a digger? And whose brilliant idea was it to not build a backup?

And two. How hard can it be to deliver fuel by trucks? The fuel line starts somewhere, right? Load it onto trucks, drive, unload. They have some pretty big trucks downunder and an enormous trucking industry. One "road train" will be good for a A380, 3-4 A330s and a whole flock of A320s. Not the most economical solution, but better than facing law suits and penalties for contractual breaches, and "reputational losses".


Well, considering a B737 or A320 will suck a big bowser dry. Times that by the amount of flights for narrowbodies, add in the big boys like an A380 that will take +- 300 000 liters.

Certainly do-able for one flight, but to keep an airport running takes millions of liters a day. I don't think you'd be able to find that many free tankers to do the work without crippling the rest of the country.
 
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77west
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:01 am

We were talking about this at work today - Fonterra (National/Large Dairy Company) probably have the biggest tanker fleet in the country. Just saying... (Yes I realise dairy tankers can't easily haul jet A1)
 
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77west
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:02 am

AirbusOnly wrote:
We have booked flights to AKL on 27th October and flight back both via HKG on 13th November...do you think the flight back with CX could still be affected from fuel shortages and affect the connecting flight to FRA? ( 2.5 hours)


Will be fixed well before then. Thats more than a month out. They are hoping to be fully operational by early October.
 
AirbusOnly
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:02 am

We have booked flights to AKL on 27th October and flight back both via HKG on 13th November...do you think the flight back with CX could still be affected from fuel shortages and affect the connecting flight to FRA? ( 2.5 hours)
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:27 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
Full article (with more details): http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/ ... r-auckland

V/F

About time. Surprised it took so long


This article is the first to imply that Endeavour is moving Jet A-1. Later in the article and in all the others I've seen they mention Endeavour is moving diesel. Which is useful as it frees up trucks to move Jet A-1.

And using Endeavour was mentioned a couple days ago. It takes a bit of time to get everything prepared for such a change.

Navy ship HMNZS Endeavour will sail from Devonport this morning to pick up almost five million litres of diesel from Marsden Point, freeing up dozens of commercial tankers to concentrate on moving aviation fuel.

I'm not certain I follow, where in the RNZ article does it say the Endeavour would be carrying Jet A-1?

V/F
 
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SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 2017
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:45 am

BREECH wrote:
Ferry a few (hundred) road trains by sea from that big island in the North, clean them, decon them and restart your airport operations. It's not too simple, but it's not rockets science, either. With quick planning it could be done overnight, really.


For a start - it would never be overnight since it would take a couple of days by sea plus days and days to get your trucks and ships to the ports.

Secondly - who has hundreds of trucks (plus crew) lying around doing nothing?!?

Thirdly - who has the required cargo vessels (plural, plus crew) lying around doing nothing?!?

Fourthly - can the road infrastructure in NZ even support such an idea? How would this disrupt normal traffic?

By the time you'd sorted out all the logistics you would be a couple of weeks and many millions further down the road... and the pipeline will already be fixed (and for peanuts in comparison).
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:17 pm

Never mind - I now see I was late to the party... :D
 
BREECH
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:15 pm

You are welcome, New Zealand. If you have another crisis and can't find a solution, you can always find me here. :-D
 
zkncj
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:51 pm

77west wrote:
I take it the fuel offloaded from the 747 is only usable in company (QF, JQ) aircraft and not other airlines? Also - how often, if ever, has this been done before; direct airplane-to-airplane transfers? Maybe NZ should send a few 77W down to WLG or CHC to bring back some fuel for their A320s.


Probably because NZ's 77W's are mainly tied up with operating the Tasman, and they have cancelled the A320 flights mainly and moved passengers onto the 789/777s.

Could the Aussie Airforce A330 tankers be hired in?
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:14 am

zkncj wrote:
joffie wrote:
QR921 stopped in ADL the last couple of days, before that, MEL.


Looks like it stopped in ADL today - https://flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR921


I swear when I posted that it didn't appear to be stopping it was on FA and FR24 in NW South Australia, and about 90 minutes later on both in the middle of WA! It definitely DID stop in ADL - there're photos of it on facebook - the tracking sites were not my friends yesterday!!
 
DavidJ08
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:43 am

77west wrote:
Maybe NZ should send a few 77W down to WLG or CHC to bring back some fuel for their A320s.

They actually used the A320s themselves to bring their own returning fuel - as per Air NZ's own update the A320s were to ensure maximum fuel uplift ex CHC and WLG to minimise refueling in AKL (so it was a "Bring Your Own Fuel" party :D .) NZ's own A320 flight cancellations were mainly to consolidate and combine loads to minimise flying and therefore fuel usage, rather than an inability to fly. The schedules are stabilising and they've effectively stopped cancelling flights from today (local time 22/9) onwards.
 
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qf789
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:46 am

A massive tanker is currently heading to Auckland port with 1.5 million litres of jet fuel on board. It is expected that the fuel will reach the airport by Tuesday

http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-n ... d38406de19
 
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77west
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:44 am

qf789 wrote:
A massive tanker is currently heading to Auckland port with 1.5 million litres of jet fuel on board. It is expected that the fuel will reach the airport by Tuesday

http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-n ... d38406de19


So thats enough for about 5 of the AKL-DXB EK A380 flights, assuming nearly full tanks.
 
DavidJ08
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:31 pm

This just in: the pipeline has now been repaired, with the first jet fuel expected to be pumped to Wiri by midday Sunday (in another 9 hours or so).

I think it was mentioned in one of the earlier articles that it would take about 30 hours for the fuel to settle, get re-certified and transferred to AKL. So by about Monday night the new lot of fuel should be ready for use? Evidently the fuel allocation has been 50% normal since Thursday, and they plan to review it again on Monday.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/971688 ... l-capacity
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:19 pm

DavidJ08 wrote:
This just in: the pipeline has now been repaired, with the first jet fuel expected to be pumped to Wiri by midday Sunday (in another 9 hours or so).

I think it was mentioned in one of the earlier articles that it would take about 30 hours for the fuel to settle, get re-certified and transferred to AKL. So by about Monday night the new lot of fuel should be ready for use? Evidently the fuel allocation has been 50% normal since Thursday, and they plan to review it again on Monday.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/971688 ... l-capacity

A few key quotes from that article:

Repair work on Auckland's ruptured fuel pipeline is complete, but pressure won't be at top capacity until early next year, officials say.

...

The pipeline would only gradually be brought up to full speed.

"We are in a start up process where we are being careful with that in the sense that as you open the pipe you get air in the pipeline and you need to be really careful that air doesn't start to play havoc with the pipeline pressure, so we're going carefully," Post said.

The pipeline will operate at 80 per cent until further tests were carried out over the next few months, Post said.

"It's a bit early to tell [when full capacity will return] but I think very early next year."


I imagine at 80% capacity they will be able to augment it with trucking and shipping arrangements as needed, and the immediate crisis will abate.

V/F
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 169
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:58 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
I imagine at 80% capacity they will be able to augment it with trucking and shipping arrangements as needed, and the immediate crisis will abate.

V/F

I wonder if 80% is all they need to keep up anyways - the 2012 reports indicated the pipeline was operating at 85% capacity anyway. Plus it's buffered through the Wiri terminal (at this end of the pipeline) where they keep significant stock (up to 35 million litres of Jet A-1, 24 million litres of diesel, 41 million litres of regular petrol and 16 million litres premium petrol).

I think in either case it'll all happen behind the scenes now - I was glad I found that article before it got buried by all the political news. (Context: NZ general election held yesterday with no single winner, may have to wait till 12th October for a coalition government to emerge, cue 2-3 weeks of politics dominating the news.)
 
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seat55a
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Re: Auckland Airport Fuel Shortage - Resulting in diversions and cancellations

Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:52 pm

Reports today indicate more trucking will be available this week from the refinery, and also from the Auckland port. At the port a tank has been repurposed and fuel delivered by ship, but no loading point for trucks is available yet.

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