Frontier recently announced that they will be returning to SJC with 4 routes. Denver, Las Vegas, Austin, and San Antonio.

Denver starts Oct 5th, but it looks like Frontier is already here to stay for the long run! SJC just sent out a media advisory saying Frontier will be announcing cities (plural) from SJC. Announcement will happen Tuesday morning at 8:30 AM PST. Pretty surprising they are announcing more before they even start!

Any ideas on what they are announcing?

Thanks for the heads up, I guess this is when new CLE and CVG routes will be announced as well...

I wonder if they will add nonstop SJC- MCO, TPA, CLE and CVG service?

FLYKTPA wrote:

I wonder if they will add nonstop SJC- MCO, TPA, CLE and CVG service?

Wouldn't that cannibalize their SFO-CLE/CVG/MCO routes?

If only Frontier Airlines can be like EasyJet or RyanAir. They would be so successful.

It appears SJC-AUS, SJC-CVG, SJC-MCO and SJC-COS will be announced.

dc10lover wrote:

If only Frontier Airlines can be like EasyJet or RyanAir. They would be so successful.

Frontier's making a lot of money.

mariner

Midwestindy wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

I wonder if they will add nonstop SJC- MCO, TPA, CLE and CVG service?

Wouldn't that cannibalize their SFO-CLE/CVG/MCO routes?

Maybe. I wouldn't put it past Frontier to add 3-4x weekly SJC-CVG and CLE. That's shouldn't be that hard to fill.

BayAreaFlyer wrote:

It appears SJC-AUS, SJC-CVG, SJC-MCO and SJC-COS will be announced.

Confirmed? or speculation?

BayAreaFlyer wrote:

It appears SJC-AUS, SJC-CVG, SJC-MCO and SJC-COS will be announced.

SJC-AUS is already announced, as is SJC-SAT, for the spring. It happened in the big announcement event a few weeks ago.

mariner

I think F9 is finding out that there are greener pastures outside of DEN. They're just missing one piece of the puzzle.

I'm curious if they will return to SMF, operating costs have finally dropped there with the new terminal. Right now WN has a good share of the traffic with higher fares that would be good pickings for F9.

Looks like Ontario, CA - Chicago O'Hare starts October 12, 2017 if this is accurate: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario ... al_Airport

Can we change the name of this thread to Frontier Announcement September 19, 2017

Because it looks like other airports like COS are involved. "Frontier Airlines has scheduled an announcement for Tuesday at the airport but officials did not provide any information beyond saying Frontier is expected to announce new service to be added to its existing lineup of flights."
http://www.chieftain.com/business/local ... e3b4c.html

Hopefully we will see SJC-DTW added it's a badly need link in the Detroit market.

klm617 wrote:

Hopefully we will see SJC-DTW added it's a badly need link in the Detroit market.

Why is SJC-DTW badly needed? What connection is there between Motor City and Silicon Valley?

ERJ170 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Hopefully we will see SJC-DTW added it's a badly need link in the Detroit market.

Why is SJC-DTW badly needed? What connection is there between Motor City and Silicon Valley?

Don't feed the troll my friend. It might bite back.

ERJ170 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Hopefully we will see SJC-DTW added it's a badly need link in the Detroit market.

Why is SJC-DTW badly needed? What connection is there between Motor City and Silicon Valley?

Autonomous cars involve both cars and software.

787fan8 wrote:

ERJ170 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Hopefully we will see SJC-DTW added it's a badly need link in the Detroit market.

Why is SJC-DTW badly needed? What connection is there between Motor City and Silicon Valley?

Don't feed the troll my friend. It might bite back.

Major tech growth with The development of autonomous vehicles and automobile advancement with technology, it's also the largest O&D market not currently served from DTW since SNA joined the ranks, IIRC PDEW averages around 175 per day, so in the summer it gets up to 200, and even than it could be growing since UA and NK added Bay Area service to SFO and OAK. I don't think this is for F9 though, it should be on DL.

OTOH, we at MCO just got SJC on WN so I don't see another carrier linking SJC to MCO since it's not a terribly large market.

Which would require a nonstop flight for that?

ERJ170 wrote:

Which would require a nonstop flight for that?

When you have a large automobile customer base that is willing to pay a premium yes.

Since when are major F500 companies developing advanced technology, sending their employees on F9?

Midwestindy wrote:

Since when are major F500 companies developing advanced technology, sending their employees on F9?

I pointed out that'd be a route for DL.

Midwestindy wrote:

Since when are major F500 companies developing advanced technology, sending their employees on F9?

I didn't think that was the implication.

We're dealing with the ULCC market here. It's different.

mariner

mariner wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Since when are major F500 companies developing advanced technology, sending their employees on F9?

I didn't think that was the implication.

We're dealing with the ULCC market here. It's different.

mariner

I was referring to DTW people, who suggested that a F9 nonstop DTW-SJC was needed due to the tech connection between the two areas.

nickflightx wrote:

Frontier recently announced that they will be returning to SJC with 4 routes. Denver, Las Vegas, Austin, and San Antonio.

Denver starts Oct 5th, but it looks like Frontier is already here to stay for the long run! SJC just sent out a media advisory saying Frontier will be announcing cities (plural) from SJC. Announcement will happen Tuesday morning at 8:30 AM PST. Pretty surprising they are announcing more before they even start!

Any ideas on what they are announcing?

WOW, SJC is seeing a boom in new service. Very impressive.

I'm curious about Austin and San Antonio. Austin is obvious but is there room for 3 carriers? And San Antonio, is the market good for that flight?

lavalampluva wrote:

I think F9 is finding out that there are greener pastures outside of DEN. They're just missing one piece of the puzzle.

If there are indeed a number of new Frontier routes to be announced on Tuesday, F9 must have managed to negotiate another aircraft or two, or they are reducing frequencies in less productive current markets to make this happen. Between the first week of October and the middle of December 2017, Frontier has already announced 30+ new routes. They do have several new planes arriving during this time, but certainly not enough to cover all this announced flying.

bluefltspecial wrote:

I'm curious if they will return to SMF, operating costs have finally dropped there with the new terminal. Right now WN has a good share of the traffic with higher fares that would be good pickings for F9.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Sacramento announced in the future. I know WN is the gorilla there; but suspect there is some low yielding pax traffic to be had.

Frontier 14

Midwestindy wrote:

I was referring to DTW people, who suggested that a F9 nonstop DTW-SJC was needed due to the tech connection between the two areas.

Lets end this conversation regarding F9 adding SJC-DTW. 1. It's not a smart move for F9. 2. Companies will pay a premium to fly a higher degree of service (i.e. DL) 3. F9's recent lack of interest at DTW comes to show any growth that will happen will not be singular, but rather in expansion, and if it comes down to it, would be one of the last routes they add if it came down to it, but it won't so the final verdict is, SJC-DTW on DL. That is all.

flymco753 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

I was referring to DTW people, who suggested that a F9 nonstop DTW-SJC was needed due to the tech connection between the two areas.

Lets end this conversation regarding F9 adding SJC-DTW. 1. It's not a smart move for F9. 2. Companies will pay a premium to fly a higher degree of service (i.e. DL) 3. F9's recent lack of interest at DTW comes to show any growth that will happen will not be singular, but rather in expansion, and if it comes down to it, would be one of the last routes they add if it came down to it, but it won't so the final verdict is, SJC-DTW on DL. That is all.

NW did fly SJC-DTW some years ago. I could see DL resuming it more likely now that SJC service is growing. While they are at it, SJC could use JFK, BOS and IAD on one of the network carriers too.

BoeingGuy wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

I was referring to DTW people, who suggested that a F9 nonstop DTW-SJC was needed due to the tech connection between the two areas.

Lets end this conversation regarding F9 adding SJC-DTW. 1. It's not a smart move for F9. 2. Companies will pay a premium to fly a higher degree of service (i.e. DL) 3. F9's recent lack of interest at DTW comes to show any growth that will happen will not be singular, but rather in expansion, and if it comes down to it, would be one of the last routes they add if it came down to it, but it won't so the final verdict is, SJC-DTW on DL. That is all.

NW did fly SJC-DTW some years ago. I could see DL resuming it more likely now that SJC service is growing. While they are at it, SJC could use JFK, BOS and IAD on one of the network carriers too.

DL had a hub there. I have to think the SJC-DTW market would need hub traffic at DTW.

Does DL still have a hub there?

I wonder if they'll give SJC-MSY a try 3-4 weekly. WN is adding it once weekly this spring, which was frankly a surprise to me, but I think there could be a market for it. Having used SJC and SFO recently, I think a lot of travelers would be happy to avoid the hassle and delays to the north.

flymco753 wrote:

Lets end this conversation regarding F9 adding SJC-DTW. 1. It's not a smart move for F9

I'm not sure who decided it's not a smart move. In Post #19 you made the case for it being a route that should go to Delta. I'm not sure why it should go to Delta - first in, first served, I say, although there may be room for both. There are several routes where Frontier and Delta co-exist.

flymco753 wrote:

2. Companies will pay a premium to fly a higher degree of service (i.e. DL)

Which is why Frontier doesn't try to attract premium passengers. Bill Franke, who owns the airline, believes there is a huge untapped market out there of "lower end" pax - steerage - LOL.

flymco753 wrote:

3. F9's recent lack of interest at DTW comes to show any growth that will happen will not be singular, but rather in expansion, and if it comes down to it, would be one of the last routes they add if it came down to it, but it won't so the final verdict is, SJC-DTW on DL. That is all.

Frontier is starting DTW-MIA in two or three weeks.

mariner

mariner wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Lets end this conversation regarding F9 adding SJC-DTW. 1. It's not a smart move for F9

I'm not sure who decided it's not a smart move. In Post #19 you made the case for it being a route that should go to Delta. I'm not sure why it should go to Delta - first in, first served, I say, although there may be room for both. There are several routes where Frontier and Delta co-exist.

flymco753 wrote:

2. Companies will pay a premium to fly a higher degree of service (i.e. DL)

Which is why Frontier doesn't try to attract premium passengers. Bill Franke, who owns the airline, believes there is a huge untapped market out there of "lower end" pax - steerage - LOL.

flymco753 wrote:

3. F9's recent lack of interest at DTW comes to show any growth that will happen will not be singular, but rather in expansion, and if it comes down to it, would be one of the last routes they add if it came down to it, but it won't so the final verdict is, SJC-DTW on DL. That is all.

Frontier is starting DTW-MIA in two or three weeks.

mariner

I don't think it's smart for F9 at this time to add SJC-DTW because there's so many short/medium range markets from SJC that would be better utilized with those aircraft, CVG and CLE make sense because they're hubs, but DTW doesn't in my opinion at least for F9 it doesn't. There could be co-existence but the companies in both areas would probably prefer DL and their services. The SJC-DTW route is majorily business travel, at least we can assume because it's tech meeting auto. I think with the reduction in MCO service with F9 and skipping over DTW during the mass TPA expansion, it's show how little value F9 truly has in DTW which isn't a bad thing because DTW is littered with NK flights, which is also not a bad thing, but NK comes up swinging, when F9 had the double daily MCO-DTW loaded NK immediately responded with 4x daily.

SJC-SLC/COS seem like good guessses to me.

flymco753 wrote:

I don't think it's smart for F9 at this time to add SJC-DTW because there's so many short/medium range markets from SJC that would be better utilized with those aircraft, CVG and CLE make sense because they're hubs, but DTW doesn't in my opinion at least for F9 it doesn't. There could be co-existence but the companies in both areas would probably prefer DL and their services. The SJC-DTW route is majorily business travel, at least we can assume because it's tech meeting auto. I think with the reduction in MCO service with F9 and skipping over DTW during the mass TPA expansion, it's show how little value F9 truly has in DTW which isn't a bad thing because DTW is littered with NK flights, which is also not a bad thing, but NK comes up swinging, when F9 had the double daily MCO-DTW loaded NK immediately responded with 4x daily.

Sure, there's a lot of short/medium routes, but I'm pretty glad they've started some longer ones, too. Your rule would cut out PHL-SJU and I think that would be a pity. Lots of tears - LOL.

As to SJC-DTW, I have no idea if they're starting it or not, I'm not even sure there will be an announcement this week - I can't find any mention of it anywhere, except here.

Assuming the OP is right and there is an announcement, I've been following Frontier for much too long to rule out anywhere, and surely not DTW. It's a long route, but they fly longer and it goes against the recent philosophy of not flying from cold places to cold places in winter, unless they're resorts for skiing. That may be changing with this big expansion. Other than that, my only puzzle is that they may be announcing it now - IF they do - when to me its an ideal route for the warmer months.

My puzzle with this thread is that there seems to be some underground war going on about DTW.

mariner

COS airport twitter, likely COS-SEA or COS-SJC if not both....

AirFiero wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Lets end this conversation regarding F9 adding SJC-DTW. 1. It's not a smart move for F9. 2. Companies will pay a premium to fly a higher degree of service (i.e. DL) 3. F9's recent lack of interest at DTW comes to show any growth that will happen will not be singular, but rather in expansion, and if it comes down to it, would be one of the last routes they add if it came down to it, but it won't so the final verdict is, SJC-DTW on DL. That is all.

NW did fly SJC-DTW some years ago. I could see DL resuming it more likely now that SJC service is growing. While they are at it, SJC could use JFK, BOS and IAD on one of the network carriers too.

DL had a hub there. I have to think the SJC-DTW market would need hub traffic at DTW.

Does DL still have a hub there?

You're thinking of SLC, a couple hundred miles East.

mariner wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

I don't think it's smart for F9 at this time to add SJC-DTW because there's so many short/medium range markets from SJC that would be better utilized with those aircraft, CVG and CLE make sense because they're hubs, but DTW doesn't in my opinion at least for F9 it doesn't. There could be co-existence but the companies in both areas would probably prefer DL and their services. The SJC-DTW route is majorily business travel, at least we can assume because it's tech meeting auto. I think with the reduction in MCO service with F9 and skipping over DTW during the mass TPA expansion, it's show how little value F9 truly has in DTW which isn't a bad thing because DTW is littered with NK flights, which is also not a bad thing, but NK comes up swinging, when F9 had the double daily MCO-DTW loaded NK immediately responded with 4x daily.

Sure, there's a lot of short/medium routes, but I'm pretty glad they've started some longer ones, too. Your rule would cut out PHL-SJU and I think that would be a pity. Lots of tears - LOL.

As to SJC-DTW, I have no idea if they're starting it or not, I'm not even sure there will be an announcement this week - I can't find any mention of it anywhere, except here.

Assuming the OP is right and there is an announcement, I've been following Frontier for much too long to rule out anywhere, and surely not DTW. It's a long route, but they fly longer and it goes against the recent philosophy of not flying from cold places to cold places in winter, unless they're resorts for skiing. That may be changing with this big expansion. Other than that, my only puzzle is that they may be announcing it now - IF they do - when to me its an ideal route for the warmer months.

My puzzle with this thread is that there seems to be some underground war going on about DTW.

mariner

Hey it doesn't hurt to disagree, I'm actually glad we had an intelligent conversation about it. Normally I root for DTW on routes but for SJC or COS on F9, I am not rooting or counting on it. If anything, it'd be expecting the TPA route that F9 forgot to add to DTW, but added smaller O&D markets like CMH, IND, MKE and MSP.

Midwestindy wrote:

COS airport twitter, likely COS-SEA or COS-SJC if not both....

Would be nice, given that AS is leaving the market. Did Reno Air fly COS-SJC in the past? I think that both routes would do well nonetheless, and SEA-COS would actually be a resumption from around 2013 or so.

flymco753 wrote:

Hey it doesn't hurt to disagree, I'm actually glad we had an intelligent conversation about it. Normally I root for DTW on routes but for SJC or COS on F9, I am not rooting or counting on it. If anything, it'd be expecting the TPA route that F9 forgot to add to DTW, but added smaller O&D markets like CMH, IND, MKE and MSP.

Sure, it doesn't hurt to disagree. Its almost bound to happen when it has to do with airline routes that haven't yet been announced.

The fact that the announcement is coming from COS and not SJC changes things - I'd put money on COS-SEA being announced. It's a route Frontier has flown in the recent past, and the moment Alaska announced they were quitting he route I assumed Frontier would jump in.

I still could be wrong, of course - LOL.

Where else? I guess COS-PDX could be on the list, and yes, perhaps COS-SJC. But that still leaves me with my biggest puzzle - that they haven't announced ONT-MCO and so ONT feels incomplete to me. It doesn't have a big resort city on the list, neither MCO nor LAS nor anywhere in Mexico. These things can come, I guess.

mariner

WesternA318 wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

NW did fly SJC-DTW some years ago. I could see DL resuming it more likely now that SJC service is growing. While they are at it, SJC could use JFK, BOS and IAD on one of the network carriers too.

DL had a hub there. I have to think the SJC-DTW market would need hub traffic at DTW.

Does DL still have a hub there?

You're thinking of SLC, a couple hundred miles East.

No, I'm thinking of DTW where NW used to have a hub. I was asking if it still a DL hub after the merger.

Could we see new FAT service? LAS?

What is the gate situation at COS? I'm wondering if there will ever be a need for the old Western Pacific concourse that is now being used as administrative offices.

loisencroach wrote:

What is the gate situation at COS? I'm wondering if there will ever be a need for the old Western Pacific concourse that is now being used as administrative offices.

I've wondered why nobody put another hub at COS. It seems like a great place, geographically, for a hub and as an alternative to using DEN. Are hubs dependent on O/D which COS presumably would lack?

AirFiero wrote:

loisencroach wrote:

Are hubs dependent on O/D which COS presumably would lack?

O&D traffic is cheaper to transport than connecting traffic. So more O&D = more cost-efficient hub. You don't *need* a lot of O&D but it's a good move to set up your hub in a place that can provide a lot of O&D.

adamblang wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

loisencroach wrote:

Are hubs dependent on O/D which COS presumably would lack?

O&D traffic is cheaper to transport than connecting traffic. So more O&D = more cost-efficient hub. You don't *need* a lot of O&D but it's a good move to set up your hub in a place that can provide a lot of O&D.

Cool, thanks.

So do we think COS lacks that base for O/D?

AirFiero wrote:

So do we think COS lacks that base for O/D?

The biggest problem at COS is the fact that it once was a hub for an airline - Western Pacific or WestPac - which came to grief.

http://www.tailsthroughtime.com/2010/08 ... ed-at.html

"The Short but Colorful Life of Western Pacific Airlines"

Founded by - among others - Ed Beauvais who had founded - with others - America West, for a while there, things were grand at Westpac. They had np trouble filling their aircraft, mostly with escapees from the high fares at DEN and, perhaps more importantly those who lived in southern Denver, closer to COS. Frontier had only recently started and was having to fight its own battles. It also had a more cautious CEO. LCC's were otherwise unknown in Colorado.

Within a couple of years, WestPac had a fleet of 18 x 737's. But the investors were impatient, they wanted to see actual profits, and profits were very thin on the ground. Beauvais believed he had to build up the airline first.

The Board sacked Beauvais and appointed their own man, who moved Westpac to DEN and tried to arrange a marriage with Frontier. Sam Addoms, an ex-banker who was the CEO at Frontier, agreed in principle - subject to seeing the books. When he did see the books he dropped the whole idea like a hot potato.

WestPac didn't last too much longer. People say that setting up at COS was a mistake, but the planes were full and they got a lot of media attention. Some say the move to DEN was the big mistake and certainly by moving to DEN they lost their home market in COS.

But the reputation of Westpac as a loser sticks and, by extension, COS has a lot of old battles to fight to persuade people that it really can attract passengers.



mariner

Midwestindy wrote:

Since when are major F500 companies developing advanced technology, sending their employees on F9?

I work for a Fortune 100 and we are allowed to fly F9 if we want to. Happens more than one would think!

I'd really love to see a return to MDT.

mariner wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Hey it doesn't hurt to disagree, I'm actually glad we had an intelligent conversation about it. Normally I root for DTW on routes but for SJC or COS on F9, I am not rooting or counting on it. If anything, it'd be expecting the TPA route that F9 forgot to add to DTW, but added smaller O&D markets like CMH, IND, MKE and MSP.

Sure, it doesn't hurt to disagree. Its almost bound to happen when it has to do with airline routes that haven't yet been announced.

The fact that the announcement is coming from COS and not SJC changes things
mariner

In addition to the press release a few days ago, they announced it on social media today.

https://twitter.com/FlySJC/status/909975595831971840

The website is now updated. Can't booked it yet. This is what I have found:

SJC-COS 4x weekly
SJC-ATL 5x weekly
SJC-CVG 3x weekly

All begin around the first week of April.

No DTW.