Icelandair Announces DFW

stevend08 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:09 pm

uhhhh

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 19204.html

757-200 aircraft 4X a week

Can DFW really support two Iceland routes even with the supposed connections?

TerminalD · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:10 pm

I had a feeling this would happen. Wonder where ATL is in all of this?

787fan8 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:15 pm

TerminalD wrote:
I had a feeling this would happen. Wonder where ATL is in all of this?

I'm confident we'll see FI in ATL in about a couple years or so, but WW will probably beat them to the punch with their rapid expansion.

LifetimeGS · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:17 pm

stevend08 wrote:
uhhhh

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 19204.html

757-200 aircraft 4X a week

Can DFW really support two Iceland routes even with the supposed connections?

DFW maybe, CLE no way.

hohd · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:20 pm

The aircraft is going to spend 20 hours in DFW ? Or is there a mistake in the schedule. Not very efficient if it is correct.

Dfthu · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:20 pm

Well MSP can support a Delta 757 and Iceland 767 so I see no reason why that big of a market couldn't support it.

Dominion301 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:27 pm

Well now we know where some of the spare 757 capacity is going with the first MAX routes announced.

SgtBarone · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:27 pm

LifetimeGS wrote:
stevend08 wrote:
uhhhh

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 19204.html

757-200 aircraft 4X a week

Can DFW really support two Iceland routes even with the supposed connections?

DFW maybe, CLE no way.

Not necessarily. CLE's two Iceland routes are the airport's only TATL routes period. Icelandair will likely cater more to businesses and WOW will be more attractive to leisure travelers. I'm sure both cities can support each carrier.

IceAir778 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:33 pm

The flight will leave KEF at 17:15LT as FI873 and arrive in Dallas at 20:40LT.
FI872 leave Dallas at 17:00LT and arrive in KEF 06:00LT+1

This has been on their scope for some quiet time. It is really interesting to see that they will operate its B757 on this route rather than their B767.

jetero · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:33 pm

hohd wrote:
The aircraft is going to spend 20 hours in DFW ? Or is there a mistake in the schedule. Not very efficient if it is correct.

DEN-type schedule to maximize connections

jetero · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:35 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
Not necessarily. CLE's two Iceland routes are the airport's only TATL routes period. Icelandair will likely cater more to businesses and WOW will be more attractive to leisure travelers. I'm sure both cities can support each carrier.

And how many people from CLE want to go to KEF in a given year, assuming even 1000% stimulation?

If you still have to connect where you want to go, e.g., LHR, why would you choose to connect via KEF (not much better of an airport experience than EWR or IAD, if you ask me, if not worse), on an airline like WW that has an abysmal on-time record, thereby missing your connection?

717atOGG · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:46 pm

Good for DFW! I'm curious if the 752 will be able to do this route without restriction. Is this a shorter or longer flight than KEF-PDX, which is the longest 757 route? Also, seems like a knee-jerk response, kinda like with CLE.

SgtBarone · Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:50 pm

jetero wrote:
SgtBarone wrote:
Not necessarily. CLE's two Iceland routes are the airport's only TATL routes period. Icelandair will likely cater more to businesses and WOW will be more attractive to leisure travelers. I'm sure both cities can support each carrier.

And how many people from CLE want to go to KEF in a given year, assuming even 1000% stimulation?

If you still have to connect where you want to go, e.g., LHR, why would you choose to connect via KEF (not much better of an airport experience than EWR or IAD, if you ask me, if not worse), on an airline like WW that has an abysmal on-time record, thereby missing your connection?

While KEF will no doubt be a destination for some, it's the access to Europe which is the main draw for folks in CLE. Going through customs in KEF is far more attractive than slogging through EWR or IAD, not to mention RT fares on FI and WW are significantly cheaper than UA or AA.

commavia · Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:00 pm

Wow. Just wow.

stevend08 wrote:
Can DFW really support two Iceland routes even with the supposed connections?

We'll see, but personally, I am highly skeptical.

I'll enjoy the additional, lower-cost option/s to get to Europe - at least while it/they last - and I'll be very curious to see what affect, if any, this has on pricing for existing competitors in the market. Personally, I wonder whether AA/IAG will lower their prices much, if at all, in addition to this influx of new capacity, or if there they'll conclude that WOW/Icelandair are just as likely, if not more likely, to pull people off of Delta, JetBlue and United as off of the AA/BA nonstops. Also, I can't help but consider the opportunity lost, or perhaps opportunity deferred, by not having Aer Lingus in the oneworld ATI/JV and on DUB-DFW - that would provide a lower-cost option, within the oneworld/AAdvantage framework, for U.S.-Europe.

737max8 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:18 pm

As a Dallas resident, this service highly excites me. Icelandair is great to non-rev on!

B747forever · Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:18 pm

Why announce the same route as WW when they can instead go to IAH or AUS and get the Icelandic/EU via KEF market for themselves? Is DFW-Europe really that much larger than IAH-Europe?

LAXdude1023 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Uhhh...two routes to KEF from DFW? Im skeptical this can be a thing long term.

BWIAirport · Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:21 pm

jetero wrote:
hohd wrote:
The aircraft is going to spend 20 hours in DFW ? Or is there a mistake in the schedule. Not very efficient if it is correct.

DEN-type schedule to maximize connections

I feel like FI has a tendency to do this, especially at their longer-haul US airports.

slcdeltarumd11 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:36 pm

O&D between KEF and DFW is basically not worth discussing both airlines fly mostly connections to Europe for all of their routes.

We have not seen wow or Icelandic bomb on many routes, most of these are sticking and working as low cost connection routes to Europe. People book with their wallets not what FF program they belong too , the ulcc have proven this time after time.

Since it's DFW a super important one world city I if we see one world roll out LEVEL as a way to flood some more low cost seats to Europe??? Doubt it but not much else they can do.

AaronPGH · Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:41 pm

Seems like FI has really had it with WW's rapid expansion and is now aggressively hitting back? Or has it always been like this between the two carriers?

izbtmnhd · Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:45 pm

LifetimeGS wrote:
stevend08 wrote:
uhhhh

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 19204.html

757-200 aircraft 4X a week

Can DFW really support two Iceland routes even with the supposed connections?

DFW maybe, CLE no way.

Say who. You? OK interwebz expert.

880dc8707 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:45 pm

Flew on the PHL flight in August, very full, LHR connections not nearly as high load factor. I don't know about yield. With all the new KEF flights, there will be less connex pax on the already established flights. May work out well for the 737 flights

880dc8707 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:46 pm

Flew on the PHL flight in August, very full, LHR connections not nearly as high load factor. I don't know about yield. With all the new KEF flights, there will be less connex pax on the already established flights. May work out well for the 737 flights

izbtmnhd · Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:46 pm

jetero wrote:
SgtBarone wrote:
Not necessarily. CLE's two Iceland routes are the airport's only TATL routes period. Icelandair will likely cater more to businesses and WOW will be more attractive to leisure travelers. I'm sure both cities can support each carrier.

And how many people from CLE want to go to KEF in a given year, assuming even 1000% stimulation?

If you still have to connect where you want to go, e.g., LHR, why would you choose to connect via KEF (not much better of an airport experience than EWR or IAD, if you ask me, if not worse), on an airline like WW that has an abysmal on-time record, thereby missing your connection?

Thank God you can never miss your connection at EWR!

drerx7 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:56 pm

That's good for DFW...I hate that FI opted DFW vs IAH in lieu of WOW already making a go at it.

KLDC10 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:06 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
jetero wrote:
hohd wrote:
The aircraft is going to spend 20 hours in DFW ? Or is there a mistake in the schedule. Not very efficient if it is correct.

DEN-type schedule to maximize connections

I feel like FI has a tendency to do this, especially at their longer-haul US airports.

It is to make sure that the return flight is correctly timed with connections in KEF. Routes like PDX (and evidently DFW) are too long for the airplane to get there, complete a turnaround and then get back to KEF before the morning bank of flights to Europe have departed.

factsonly · Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:17 pm

KLDC10 wrote:

It is to make sure that the return flight is correctly timed with connections in KEF. Routes like PDX (and evidently DFW) are too long for the airplane to get there, complete a turnaround and then get back to KEF before the morning bank of flights to Europe have departed.

In addition it permits an one-crew operation with just a crew minimum stay overnight in DFW.
This avoids the cost of multiple crews on a route and lengthy hotel stays on a low frequency route.

gdg9 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:23 pm

Interesting and now two options for hopefully lower cost flights to Europe.
Is it only a matter of time before Norwegian announces DFW?

thewizbizman · Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:25 pm

I am surprised no one has done it yet. With all the connections out of KDFW from American they will make a killing. Would be in both airlines best interest to partner on that. May be able to become USes hub to Iceland.

khinstorff · Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:30 pm

I wonder if FI being a codeshare partner of AS sets them up for greater success over WW?

Sooner787 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:32 pm

Looks like summer 2018 will be a great time to get a great fare to KEF and/or Europe.
from DFW. Nice to have alternatives to AA to Europe

CXA330300 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:40 pm

I'm getting the sense that FI is aiming to crowd out WW ASAP.

stlgph · Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:47 pm

khinstorff wrote:
I wonder if FI being a codeshare partner of AS sets them up for greater success over WW?

The benefit from the codeshare for Alaska is seen at Icelandair flights in Portland and Seattle, mostly bringing in folks from Los Angeles & area, San Francisco & area, San Diego, Las Vegas, and Phoenix markets.

jetero · Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:48 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
While KEF will no doubt be a destination for some, it's the access to Europe which is the main draw for folks in CLE. Going through customs in KEF is far more attractive than slogging through EWR or IAD, not to mention RT fares on FI and WW are significantly cheaper than UA or AA.

Who's going through Customs at KEF on the return if they're connecting?

jetero · Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:49 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Say who. You? OK interwebz expert.

Kind of like you being an expert on hurricanes from watching the news?

khinstorff · Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:56 pm

stlgph wrote:
khinstorff wrote:
I wonder if FI being a codeshare partner of AS sets them up for greater success over WW?

The benefit from the codeshare for Alaska is seen at Icelandair flights in Portland and Seattle, mostly bringing in folks from Los Angeles & area, San Francisco & area, San Diego, Las Vegas, and Phoenix markets.

Super fair, but I wouldn't discount the folks in DFW that were crediting a lot of their AA flights to Mileage Plan over the years.

737max8 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:58 pm

KEF-DFW is 3,743 miles.

This is 5 miles longer than KEF-PDX at 3,738 miles.

Is this the longest 757 route in the world?

flyingclrs727 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:08 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
jetero wrote:
hohd wrote:
The aircraft is going to spend 20 hours in DFW ? Or is there a mistake in the schedule. Not very efficient if it is correct.

DEN-type schedule to maximize connections

I feel like FI has a tendency to do this, especially at their longer-haul US airports.

Perhaps it just is a result of the length of the flight between KEF and DFW. Perhaps one plane can't make the round trip in the allotted time to reliably make the connections in KEF. The 757 is paid for, so having it sit on the ground doesn't cost them too much.

jetero · Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:11 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
The 757 is paid for, so having it sit on the ground doesn't cost them too much.

It's not the cost--it's the potential lost revenue.

But given the Iceland air service market these days probably it's just as good for loss avoidance.

727LOVER · Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:16 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
jetero wrote:
hohd wrote:
The aircraft is going to spend 20 hours in DFW ? Or is there a mistake in the schedule. Not very efficient if it is correct.

DEN-type schedule to maximize connections

I feel like FI has a tendency to do this, especially at their longer-haul US airports.

TPA has it sitting that long also

airzona11 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:16 pm

jetero wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
The 757 is paid for, so having it sit on the ground doesn't cost them too much.

It's not the cost--it's the potential lost revenue.

But given the Iceland air service market these days probably it's just as good for loss avoidance.

Good point. That shows the flexibility that can be worth it for an amortized plane vs new one. Icelandair has relatively low expenses for these flights, and DFW is a massive metro area, ~700ish seats each way in a week is not that much to fill.

stlgph · Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:23 pm

khinstorff wrote:
stlgph wrote:
khinstorff wrote:
I wonder if FI being a codeshare partner of AS sets them up for greater success over WW?

The benefit from the codeshare for Alaska is seen at Icelandair flights in Portland and Seattle, mostly bringing in folks from Los Angeles & area, San Francisco & area, San Diego, Las Vegas, and Phoenix markets.

Super fair, but I wouldn't discount the folks in DFW that were crediting a lot of their AA flights to Mileage Plan over the years.

That, too, is a good point.
Other connections in the system are not impossible, I just know the number one priority of the partnership with Alaska and JetBlue was to serve those Southwest/CA markets.

stlgph · Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:27 pm

I'm surprised we haven't seen more growth by Icelandair into it's "midnight-ish" connection banks, with flights arriving from North America around midnight and then continuing to Europe around 1 in the morning, cutting down on some of these long overnight stays.

Does anyone know if some of the out post stations, such as Seattle performing maintenance, or are the planes just taking a nice break?

Skyblue39 · Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:49 pm

737max8 wrote:
As a Dallas resident, this service highly excites me. Icelandair is great to non-rev on!

Yawn....

Chugach · Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:05 pm

727LOVER wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
jetero wrote:

DEN-type schedule to maximize connections

I feel like FI has a tendency to do this, especially at their longer-haul US airports.

TPA has it sitting that long also

Also ANC.

hvusslax · Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:21 pm

Chugach wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
I feel like FI has a tendency to do this, especially at their longer-haul US airports.

TPA has it sitting that long also

Also ANC.

The longest North America route that can be turned around immediately to meet with the European bank is YEG at 3069 miles. Therefore all routes longer than that have this arrangement of stopping overnight and heading back with the same crew the day after. These are: ANC, DEN, PDX, SEA, YVR, TPA, MCO and now DFW.

jetero · Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:25 pm

hvusslax wrote:
Chugach wrote:
727LOVER wrote:

TPA has it sitting that long also

Also ANC.

The longest North America route that can be turned around immediately to meet with the European bank is YEG at 3069 miles. Therefore all routes longer than that have this arrangement of stopping overnight and heading back with the same crew the day after. These are: ANC, DEN, PDX, SEA, YVR, TPA, MCO and now DFW.

And of those, which has been around the longest (and, for how long)? MCO? All the rest have been added since 2012ish?

dcajet · Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:38 pm

jetero wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
The 757 is paid for, so having it sit on the ground doesn't cost them too much.

It's not the cost--it's the potential lost revenue.

But given the Iceland air service market these days probably it's just as good for loss avoidance.

Icelandair's main business is to bring people from many points in North America and funnel them thru KEF to points in Europe. To do that they operate specific connection banks. For some of the farthest points such as PDX, ANC, TPA and now DFW, if they were to do an immediate turn around, the passengers on those flights would miss those connection banks and would have long waiting periods in Keflavik, forcing the airline to spend on city tours, hotels, etc. Additionally, by overnighting the plane at these stations, the same crew can do both the out and inbound leg.

So this is not about the loss of potential revenue; instead FI operates in a way that fits its business model.

stlgph · Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:01 pm

jetero wrote:
hvusslax wrote:
Chugach wrote:

Also ANC.

The longest North America route that can be turned around immediately to meet with the European bank is YEG at 3069 miles. Therefore all routes longer than that have this arrangement of stopping overnight and heading back with the same crew the day after. These are: ANC, DEN, PDX, SEA, YVR, TPA, MCO and now DFW.

And of those, which has been around the longest (and, for how long)? MCO? All the rest have been added since 2012ish?

Correct.

NichCage · Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:02 pm

I find it quite funny how Icelandair announces DFW right after WOW Air announced DFW.

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