WIederling
Posts: 4690
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:52 am

VS11 wrote:
Noshow wrote:
Why can't the 787-3 be reborn? Wouldn't this be the exact thing they look for? What needs to be updated compared to some 787-3?


The price. At the right price the model can be economically attractive to serve the thinner routes.


There was nothing cheaper in producing a 787-3.
( actually the topmost "speical" feature was fitting smaller existing gates.
all other things were downhill from the "fullfeatured" 787.)

What I don't get is: airplanes are so expensive to buy and operate.
Taking away efficiency does not make sense.

Landlocked infrastructure in comparison is much cheaper to create.
But whole industries seem to be hamstrung just to fit the crumbling concrete structures
of a time gone by when building infrastructure was still an understood reality.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 16662
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:18 pm

WIederling wrote:
Landlocked infrastructure in comparison is much cheaper to create.
But whole industries seem to be hamstrung just to fit the crumbling concrete structures
of a time gone by when building infrastructure was still an understood reality.

Similar phenomena in telecoms where one of many reasons VoIP phones connected by ethernet were favored because they got rid of one run of cable to each desk, even though the phone itself was a lot more expensive than a 'dumb' phone. Any time you get the 'trades' involved it's going to be expensive. Not too many 'greenfields' left especially when it comes to airports.

In any case, the 787-3 did not make the grade but it wasn't because its size/range were undesirable, it was because it was quite inefficient. Time will tell if 797 approaches its desired size/range characteristics, but I for one would not be surprised if it did.
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
airbazar
Posts: 8021
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:21 pm

How can we have a discussion based on something that no one knows what it will be? The "Boeing MOM" is barely a paper airplane at this point. It's a mere concept, To put it in perspective, we are still debating the benefits and capabilities of the A321NEO, and that is already flying.
 
RJMAZ
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:54 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:36 pm

VSMUT wrote:
If recent history is anything to go by, then Boeing isn't going to let another program cannibalize 787-8 sales.

There are no sales to cannibalize. The 787-8 sales are actually going backwards with customers upgrading to -9 and -10's or deferring. Not all the current orders are firm. At this rate there may only be 50 more 787-8's made.

Boeing will eventually be making less than one 787-8 per month. There will be no economy of scale and the 787-8 will be the most expensive version to produce.

In approximately 2 years time it's highly likely Boeing will just give a free upgrade to the 787-9 and stop production of the 787-8 completely. So the MOM announcement soon would be great for those whose who ordered the 787-8 as a 767 replacement.

Boeing could instead announce a lighter regional version of the 787-8 that is more efficient at medium haul. This would attack the MOM market from the top and may kill the business case for the MOM.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1350
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:42 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
If recent history is anything to go by, then Boeing isn't going to let another program cannibalize 787-8 sales.

There are no sales to cannibalize. The 787-8 sales are actually going backwards with customers upgrading to -9 and -10's or deferring. Not all the current orders are firm. At this rate there may only be 50 more 787-8's made.


There were no sales to cannibalize for the 737-600 and A318 either, and the A319 is well down that road too. You have still to come up with a reason why it would be different this time over.
 
User avatar
AirlineCritic
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:31 pm

There is always sales to cannibalize. The smaller and the larger planes than the intended new plane.
 
Turnhouse1
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:57 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:35 pm

The 757 was introduced at the same time as the 737 classic 3/4/5, it offered range and capacity far in excess of these so could justify what is perhaps an overspec wing and engine.

Today the A321 offers basically the same range and capacity as a 757 but with significantly lower costs.

So what Boeing or Airbus need to bring to the market is a product which offers enough above the A321 in one or more of cost, range & capacity. Increasing capacity pushes it into where the A330 and 787 sit so there isn't too much space there. The market for a 5000nm narrowbody might be limited. so unless they move away from the 'tube with wings' concept to give a disruptive reduction in operating costs then they're going to have to keep development costs very low to make it work. As Airbus produce the A321 they have little incentive to lead as they'd just cannibalise their own very profitable model, so the ball is very much in Boeing's court.
 
tjh8402
Posts: 889
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:20 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:25 am

all signs indicate that Boeing really isn't interested in selling the 788 if they don't have to. It's not a hugely profitable model for them. They'd rather sell that than have the customer buy an Airbus, but otherwise, it's the plane they only offer because they have to. The 789 and 78X don't need (the limited) help from the 788. Boeing would probably prefer 788 sales that aren't upgauged to a 789 go to help give a MoM the economies of scale it needs. I don't see cannibalization concerns being that big.
 
WIederling
Posts: 4690
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:21 am

tjh8402 wrote:
all signs indicate that Boeing really isn't interested in selling the 788 if they don't have to. It's not a hugely profitable model for them.


788 ruins the production cost numbers. After the massive changes forced for the 789
commonality is low and production absorbs quite a bit more resources than the later sibblings.

Boeing would be happy to discontinue the 788 as it stands.
Alternative: create a new 788Mk2 from 789.

What probably will be done:
discontinue 788
Fill that slot ( and slightly down capacity wise ) with MOM.

MOM will be just another name for 788Mk2 :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
RJMAZ
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:54 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:34 am

WIederling wrote:
Boeing would be happy to discontinue the 788 as it stands.
Alternative: create a new 788Mk2 from 789.

What probably will be done:
discontinue 788
Fill that slot ( and slightly down capacity wise ) with MOM.

MOM will be just another name for 788Mk2 :-)

Producing a shrink of the 787-9 to create a 787-8mk2 will probably result in a heavier aircraft with worse performance on medium haul routes.

I can see them going the opposite way making the 787-8 even more unique. Engine manufacturers strive for a 1% improvement in SFC yet Boeing could easily save 5% just from a weight loss program. They could even save 10% if they don't mind a small range hit and reduced maximum takeoff weight.

Carbon fibre with multiple layers is easy to make thinner. It's as simple as reprogramming the robots that lay the fibre.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 16662
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:24 pm

WIederling wrote:
Boeing would be happy to discontinue the 788 as it stands.

The thing people seem to miss is that the 788 has different business partners than does the 789/10 and we don't know much if anything about what contractual obligations Boeing would have with these partners with regard to ending production.

WIederling wrote:
Alternative: create a new 788Mk2 from 789.

What probably will be done:
discontinue 788
Fill that slot ( and slightly down capacity wise ) with MOM.

MOM will be just another name for 788Mk2 :-)

Very doubtful. All the Boeing statements I've read say show a detailed understanding that that there is a very narrow market window for the MOM to hit.

IMHO they will not use a modified 787 family member for that market (although of course they will leverage much of its tech) because it cannot be changed enough to hit the needed market requirements.

It will be a clean sheet in terms of dimensions. If the market cannot support a clean sheet they simply will not build it, they'll wait things out for the NSA.
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
WIederling
Posts: 4690
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:01 pm

Revelation wrote:
It will be a clean sheet in terms of dimensions. If the market cannot support a clean sheet they simply will not build it, they'll wait things out for the NSA.


Clean sheet, for sure, but a clean sheet sitting on the 788 slot or just below, slightly less range.

The 788 as it stands doesn't sell well anymore and is too expensive to manufacture from the get go.
( compare the ne MAX7.5 as a simple downsize of the MAX8 as replacement of the more bespoke -700/MAX7.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
BREECH
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:58 pm

TurnaroudUK wrote:
What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Absolutely nothing. The "MOM" only exists in the minds of Boeing fanboys who can't accept the fact that their favorite has no response to A321LR. It will never be built. Ever. And even Boeing themselves have WAY too much on their plate right now to even consider it. They have to... well... survive. They need to pay back the $32 billion their "dreamliner" cost. Then there's a problem of 4/5th of their product line competing in age with the President of the United States... with the latter actually losing. Then there's a super-critical problem of developing a new narrow-body to somehow grab the last straw in that sector. "MOM" will never happen. EVER.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 16662
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:13 pm

BREECH wrote:
TurnaroudUK wrote:
What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Absolutely nothing. The "MOM" only exists in the minds of Boeing fanboys who can't accept the fact that their favorite has no response to A321LR. It will never be built. Ever.

Ahh how low a.net sinks... Such a childish post...

Apparently such "fanboys" include UA's CFO, DL's managing director of fleet management, AS's VP of capacity planning, DY's CEO, EK's CEO, etc.

Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... om-434961/
Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... eo-438904/
Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ng-438718/
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
BREECH
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:36 pm

Revelation wrote:
Ahh how low a.net sinks... Such a childish post...

Try typing "A380 is an ugly aircraft" in the search field and see how far back that "fall" has started.

Revelation wrote:
Apparently such "fanboys" include UA's CFO, DL's managing director of fleet management, AS's VP of capacity planning, DY's CEO, EK's CEO, etc.

Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... om-434961/
Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... eo-438904/
Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ng-438718/


One, I think you overappreciate the FlightGlobal's insight and their very long-shot interpretations of the quotes. And two, if you remove the FG's filler, it boils down to this: "It'd be cool to have it. We're interested in 220-260 segment" and "if they decide to launch it, we’d be very interested in considering it”. Any transport organization is interested in as many models on the market and as much competition as possible. It drives the prices down. None of the quotes say, "if they build it, we will come". "Interested in considering" is hardly a firm order. Moreover, as per your own ref, "Clark says "[...] I was pretty impressed, although not perhaps for us." It means, he does NOT want it.

But you may feel free to keep dreaming. :-)
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 16662
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:54 pm

BREECH wrote:
One, I think you overappreciate the FlightGlobal's insight and their very long-shot interpretations of the quotes. And two, if you remove the FG's filler, it boils down to this: "It'd be cool to have it. We're interested in 220-260 segment" and "if they decide to launch it, we’d be very interested in considering it”. Any transport organization is interested in as many models on the market and as much competition as possible. It drives the prices down. None of the quotes say, "if they build it, we will come". "Interested in considering" is hardly a firm order. Moreover, as per your own ref, "Clark says "[...] I was pretty impressed, although not perhaps for us." It means, he does NOT want it.

Seems you're walking back your more boisterous earlier statement...

So, given UA's CFO, DL's managing director of fleet management, AS's VP of capacity planning, DY's CEO, and EK's CEO are considering the MOM/NMA that only "fanboys" acknowledge, which of them are "fanboys who can't accept the fact that their favorite has no response to A321LR"?

Or is your last post a more sensible description of the atmosphere surrounding the NMA/MOM?

If so, I agree. The MOM/NMA is a design study. It has actual Boeing product developers working on refining the potential product. Many people both inside and outside the industry are interested in seeing what happens, fanboys and otherwise. It very will may never see the light of day, or it could become a very hot selling product in a very interesting segment of the market, or something in between. It's far from certain that it will "never" be built.

And yes, it's true, the A380 is an ugly aircraft... ;)

Perhaps I protest too much....
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
BREECH
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:59 pm

Revelation wrote:
Seems you're walking back your more boisterous earlier statement...

Seems like you only see what you want to see in what you read. I've just given you the quote that says EK is NOT considering it, but you keep saying they do. And somehow what I said made you think I "walk back my statement". No, I don't. It's not my fault you can't read the references you post. I have to admit I edited my post, so you might missed some of it, so I'll "walk it forward": as per your own ref, "Clark says "[...] I was pretty impressed, although not perhaps for us." It means, he does NOT want it. I'm sorry, I only speak English and a few European languages. I don't speak Boeing.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
BREECH
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:06 pm

Revelation wrote:
Many people both inside and outside the industry are interested in seeing what happens, fanboys and otherwise. It very will may never see the light of day, or it could become a very hot selling product in a very interesting segment of the market, or something in between. It's far from certain that it will "never" be built.

And yes, it's true, the A380 is an ugly aircraft... ;)

Perhaps I protest too much....

Yes, you do.

Maybe I was a bit harsh. I will not take ANY of it back but I'll tone it down. MOM will NEVER happen. The very references you posted say they are interested in 220-260 aircraft. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's 787 and A330 territory. Boeing has spent WAY too much money on the 787 to create its direct competitor any time soon. Airlines were not interested in 757 (otherwise Boeing wouldn't close the line) and they are NOT interested in its replacement. As bad as 787 is (yees, it is!), MOM will be worse - narrow body vs the comforts of the wide-body, limited cargo, limited MTOW, etc. Its price will be much higher than 737 and just marginally lower than what airlines pay for 787. So why buy something smaller for the same money. And EK is NOT interested in it. :-D
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
BREECH
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:10 pm

Revelation wrote:

I just realized something. YOU DID NOT READ THOSE! :-D :-D :-D You just saw the headlines! HAHAHAHA! Come on, man! Read the articles and you'll see that FlightGlobal (as usually) is thinking wishfully. Unlike the headlines the quotes in the articles are quite interesting.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6825
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:13 pm

Revelation wrote:
If so, I agree. The MOM/NMA is a design study. It has actual Boeing product developers working on refining the potential product. Many people both inside and outside the industry are interested in seeing what happens, fanboys and otherwise.


I guess the biggest problem is to find the spec that all those airlines can find a spot in their fleets for. As long it is sufficiently diffuse, pretty much every airlines flying 739s and A321 should be willing to consider it.
Not that they find theselves in a 748i like situation, airlines being interested, but in a different plane... high capacity (LH) vs. high range (EK) ending in hardly anyone buying it. The 8i isn't a bad aircraft either after all.

Best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
BREECH
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:24 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
As long it is sufficiently diffuse, pretty much every airlines flying 739s and A321 should be willing to consider it...

Exactly! So it will start eating into both 787, which Boeing has to sell like crazy to return the horrible costs, and the 739 market, which isn't the best float in the pool as it is. So instead of an A321LR competitor they may create both planes' killer. Worse than that, they might kill their sales altogether, because the potential buyers will be waiting to see which of the three (787, 739, "the MOM") performs better in various scenarios. And all that IF "the MOM" is actually a good plane, which is far from a given.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 16662
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:08 pm

BREECH wrote:
Revelation wrote:

I just realized something. YOU DID NOT READ THOSE! :-D :-D :-D You just saw the headlines! HAHAHAHA! Come on, man! Read the articles and you'll see that FlightGlobal (as usually) is thinking wishfully. Unlike the headlines the quotes in the articles are quite interesting.

I did read them, and they say anything but:

BREECH wrote:
TurnaroudUK wrote:
What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Absolutely nothing. The "MOM" only exists in the minds of Boeing fanboys who can't accept the fact that their favorite has no response to A321LR. It will never be built. Ever.

That's the point.

For instance, Clark says "I was pretty impressed", not "It will never be built. Ever".

We all know EK is not in the market for those planes so that's not relevant. What is relevant is that their CEO finds it impressive, as does several other non-fanboy airline executives.
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
BREECH
Posts: 201
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:38 pm

Revelation wrote:
For instance, Clark says "I was pretty impressed", not "It will never be built. Ever". [...] What is relevant is that their CEO finds it impressive, as does several other non-fanboy airline executives.

Seriously!? And you called ME childish? You simply remove phrases that contradict to your statement and present the quote as proof of what you said. HAHAHA! Nah, man, you're on your own here. Cheers.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
User avatar
LamboAston
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:41 pm

Now, children, stop arguing. Whether the MOM is built or not is not the point of this discussion.
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D, E110 (E for epic)
NZ, EK, QF, SQ, UA, US, CO, FZ, FR, U2, BA, VA, VS, MH, EI, EY, LH, EN, NM, TG, GZ
 
User avatar
reidar76
Posts: 299
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:16 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:56 pm

I think the MOM should be a relatively small aircraft capable of flying medium to long haul routes, that is, an aircraft optimized around a flight time of 8 to 10 hours (-/+ 2 hours). By relatively small I mean an aircraft that is closer in size to the A321 than to the 787-8. In comparable 2-class configurations, the 787-8 has approximately 100 seats more than the A321.

This kind of MOM aircraft (size/range) is lacking in both OEMs product catalogs. The A321LR comes closest, but lacks range. I think, in the coming decades, strong growth in the aviation market will be in opening direct connections between city pairs that currently doesn't have a direct service.

1) A direct flight saves time and the hassle of transfer at a hub. I think people are willing to pay slightly more for flying nonstop. The important thing is that the MOM should be small enough so that a large number of new direct connections can be operated profitably (load factor).

2) Direct flights reduces costs associated with large hubs. For one, no need for a connecting flight, fewer nm flown (fuel saved etc), lower costs (terminal fees, passengers taxes, navigational fees etc. when flying direct)

3) Competition will continue to increase with several airlines flying between the same cities, even on medium to long haul routes. Smaller aircraft are needed to maintain high load factors, reduce trip costs and risk, and enable airlines to compete on frequency on business routes. Airlines that fly direct will be preferred over airlines that don't. The latter will be a new important competitive arena.

I envision the MOM to be capable of 200 to 220 passengers (2-class), operating on flights with a scheduled flight time of up to an absolute maximum of 12 hours. This will be efficient, taking aircraft utilization into consideration, and total allowed crew duty time/ flight time. Cargo doesn't mind a transfer at a hub, so I think the MOM will have low to none additional cargo capabilities.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 9404
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:33 pm

I find the video too optimistic, much too US and Boeing centric. The 757 is exactly the kind of plane that was possible and profitable in the past,
that would be an abject failure today, costing billions upon billions of losses to the manufacturer that would attempt it.

If they can only expect to sell some hundreds, and it's a narrowbody so not the same kind of money that a widebody brings, then it must be cheap to design => it must be a derivative of another plane. Even then, I'm not convinced there would be an engine for this, or the manufacturer would have to pay an engine maker.

If they expect to sell several thousands, they must prove this market exists.

Revelation wrote:
Similar phenomena in telecoms where one of many reasons VoIP phones connected by ethernet were favored because they got rid of one run of cable to each desk, even though the phone itself was a lot more expensive than a 'dumb' phone. Any time you get the 'trades' involved it's going to be expensive.


My company is in construction and in telecoms too. Construction isn't going anywhere, and at least in my country and many around the world (including the US where we build infrastructure from time to time) there is a will to build and maintain infrastructure.

I've just learned that the TV group also owned by my company is going to trial floors of "offices" with no actual offices, and no network cabling at all : all WiFi, with softphones on the laptops of people who still want a "landline". Several of our biggest clients, including ourselves, are getting rid of deskphones or are planning it for the next few years.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4266
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:50 pm

Or they could just MAX the 767 with GEnx -2b engines, (the same way they've used 747 engines on the 767 since forever), and be done with it for another decade and a half.

You have a plane 70-100,000 lbs lighter than the 789 and 339, (why even bring up the unloved 338 and 788?), the exact size Boeing has been talking about, is still in production, could be flying in a third of the time as an all new aircraft, probably costing ten billion dollars less than all new, with everything needed right in the current parts bins, (including the engines).

Then the MOM market is bracketed by the 321 on the bottom and the 767max on the top.

But why would you want to rehash an old airframe with new engines? It's not like that concept would ever sell.

Oh.....wait...
What the...?
 
User avatar
AirCal737
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:17 am

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:20 pm

I wonder why Boeing didn't make use of the 737 fusalauge in its proposal. The MoM could have same fusalauge, avionics and tail(probable extended the 747SP-way) with the 737 while having bigwings ings, lenthened gears and new engines. Essentially the difference between an A346 and an A332(probably a little bigger difference). If you look at the 77X you will know that the wings are where CFRP is important, not fusalauge. BTW, is this turing into another endless MoM debate thread?
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 16662
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: What will the Boeing MOM do for the industry?

Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:56 pm

Aesma wrote:
I've just learned that the TV group also owned by my company is going to trial floors of "offices" with no actual offices, and no network cabling at all : all WiFi, with softphones on the laptops of people who still want a "landline". Several of our biggest clients, including ourselves, are getting rid of deskphones or are planning it for the next few years.

My previous employer sold a smartphone product. We complained it was unusable due to poor voice quality and dropped calls. We were told it was due to the poor responsiveness of the Windows OS on the laptops. We then pointed out that Skype worked quite well on the same OS and hardware. Things got very quiet after that. We reverted to using the VoIP phones with hard-wired Ethernet that were still present on our desks. It's a shame because I detested using that phone. My new outfit also has hardwired phones on the desks. I've only used it around once a month since I've been here. A total waste of resources, IMHO, but the IT/telecoms folks can tick the box, and I'm OK with just ignoring its presence on my desktop.
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos