klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

That can't be said for a lot of cities only those in close proximity to JFK and ATL where it is redundant to over fly those hubs when those frames can be used on flights that don't really have direct or convenient access to ATL or JFK for their European customers as those two hubs replicate what AMS and CDG do on the European side. So those passengers in TPA and MSY will be flowed over ATL where all major cities are accessible with one stop.

Then why is DL going to fly MCO-AMS and IND-CDG? According to you, those passengers can just connect in ATL, JFK ect.
Going by your logic-
MKE- convention access to MSP & DTW for EU
DFW- fly to ATL for EU
LAS, DEN, SAN & PHX can all go to LAX and SLC for EU.
So why fly to any of those cites?

MCO because have you ever heard of Disney it's a huge draw for Europeans. I said One Stop IND does not have convenient one stop access to most of Europe without a flight to CDG same for all the Western cities I named were as Florida and the surounding states have those one stop flights available over ATL so there is no need for direct access to Europe. I agree that DFW could use ATL but was hard preesed to come up with a 6th city so since it was linked to AMS before by KLM I added it to my list but not really believing it will get AMS access. Over DTW and MSP you only have 4 year round cities you could get to year round with FCO, MUC and KEF added to the list in the summer months. It's funny how people throw out all this great logic but when you toss that same logic back at them about the markets they are defending they can't embrace it. If there ever comes a TPA-AMS link it will not be on DL/KL

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

Getting back to the original rumor that DL is possibly going to add up to 6 new AMS-US routes, these are the cities that I see getting DL AMS routes:
RDU- because DL loves RDU, and their CDG flight seems to be doing well.
AUS- rumor is that it will become a permanent flight.
LAS- the Brookings numbers show that AMS-LAS is actually a large market by itself even without KLM feed that would use the flight.
MSY- has good European demand and to provide a Skyteam link to MSY.
SAN- route wanted by both AMS & SAN, they also have very strong European demand.
TPA- route wanted by both AMS and TPA, needs additional connectivity to a large EU hub.
What 6 cities do you think will get AMS service via DL later this Fall?

MKE
LAS
PHX
DEN
CVG
DFW

DeltaRules wrote:

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

Getting back to the original rumor that DL is possibly going to add up to 6 new AMS-US routes, these are the cities that I see getting DL AMS routes:
RDU- because DL loves RDU, and their CDG flight seems to be doing well.
AUS- rumor is that it will become a permanent flight.
LAS- the Brookings numbers show that AMS-LAS is actually a large market by itself even without KLM feed that would use the flight.
MSY- has good European demand and to provide a Skyteam link to MSY.
SAN- route wanted by both AMS & SAN, they also have very strong European demand.
TPA- route wanted by both AMS and TPA, needs additional connectivity to a large EU hub.
What 6 cities do you think will get AMS service via DL later this Fall?

MKE
LAS
PHX
DEN
CVG
DFW

The original rumor read to me like six other cities and that RDU was the "model", so I don't figure RDU. MCO just got AMS and IND just got CDG, so I'd think they're both out.

AUS, TPA, CMH, MKE, LAS, MSY

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

Then why is DL going to fly MCO-AMS and IND-CDG? According to you, those passengers can just connect in ATL, JFK ect.
Going by your logic-
MKE- convention access to MSP & DTW for EU
DFW- fly to ATL for EU
LAS, DEN, SAN & PHX can all go to LAX and SLC for EU.
So why fly to any of those cites?

MCO because have you ever heard of Disney it's a huge draw for Europeans. I said One Stop IND does not have convenient one stop access to most of Europe without a flight to CDG same for all the Western cities I named were as Florida and the surounding states have those one stop flights available over ATL so there is no need for direct access to Europe. I agree that DFW could use ATL but was hard preesed to come up with a 6th city so since it was linked to AMS before by KLM I added it to my list but not really believing it will get AMS access. Over DTW and MSP you only have 4 year round cities you could get to year round with FCO, MUC and KEF added to the list in the summer months. It's funny how people throw out all this great logic but when you toss that same logic back at them about the markets they are defending they can't embrace it. If there ever comes a TPA-AMS link it will not be on DL/KL

Why can’t IND DL passengers connect to EU via ATL for their one stop access? Yes, DL can continue to push EU- TPA passengers over ATL, but both TPA and AMS are working on nonstop AMS-TPA service and TPA can support a nonstop sky team flight to Europe. You are contradicting yourself by saying that TPA EU passengers should all go thru ATL but IND’s EU traffic shouldn’t. All of TPA’s and IND’s DL EU traffic could connect via ATL, but DL is trying new things, hence IND-CDG. You still haven’t given a good reason for why AMS-TPA isn’t going to happen. Yes TPA travelers can connect at ATL, but so can IND’s, and IND is getting EU DL service so why not TPA?

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

MCO because have you ever heard of Disney it's a huge draw for Europeans. I said One Stop IND does not have convenient one stop access to most of Europe without a flight to CDG same for all the Western cities I named were as Florida and the surounding states have those one stop flights available over ATL so there is no need for direct access to Europe. I agree that DFW could use ATL but was hard preesed to come up with a 6th city so since it was linked to AMS before by KLM I added it to my list but not really believing it will get AMS access. Over DTW and MSP you only have 4 year round cities you could get to year round with FCO, MUC and KEF added to the list in the summer months. It's funny how people throw out all this great logic but when you toss that same logic back at them about the markets they are defending they can't embrace it. If there ever comes a TPA-AMS link it will not be on DL/KL

Why can’t IND DL passengers connect to EU via ATL for their one stop access? Yes, DL can continue to push EU- TPA passengers over ATL, but both TPA and AMS are working on nonstop AMS-TPA service and TPA can support a nonstop sky team flight to Europe. You are contradicting yourself by saying that TPA EU passengers should all go thru ATL but IND’s EU traffic shouldn’t. All of TPA’s and IND’s DL EU traffic could connect via ATL, but DL is trying new things, hence IND-CDG. You still haven’t given a good reason for why AMS-TPA isn’t going to happen. Yes TPA travelers can connect at ATL, but so can IND’s, and IND is getting EU DL service so why not TPA?

Because flying to ATL from IND to Europe is flying grossly out of they way and I suspect Delta was losing a lot of the IND europe traffic to AA and UA who were using ORD for their one stop onward connections to Europe. In most cases the logical business traveler who time is most important to is not going to fly IND-ATL-Europe they are going to ORD.

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

MCO because have you ever heard of Disney it's a huge draw for Europeans. I said One Stop IND does not have convenient one stop access to most of Europe without a flight to CDG same for all the Western cities I named were as Florida and the surounding states have those one stop flights available over ATL so there is no need for direct access to Europe. I agree that DFW could use ATL but was hard preesed to come up with a 6th city so since it was linked to AMS before by KLM I added it to my list but not really believing it will get AMS access. Over DTW and MSP you only have 4 year round cities you could get to year round with FCO, MUC and KEF added to the list in the summer months. It's funny how people throw out all this great logic but when you toss that same logic back at them about the markets they are defending they can't embrace it. If there ever comes a TPA-AMS link it will not be on DL/KL

Why can’t IND DL passengers connect to EU via ATL for their one stop access? Yes, DL can continue to push EU- TPA passengers over ATL, but both TPA and AMS are working on nonstop AMS-TPA service and TPA can support a nonstop sky team flight to Europe. You are contradicting yourself by saying that TPA EU passengers should all go thru ATL but IND’s EU traffic shouldn’t. All of TPA’s and IND’s DL EU traffic could connect via ATL, but DL is trying new things, hence IND-CDG. You still haven’t given a good reason for why AMS-TPA isn’t going to happen. Yes TPA travelers can connect at ATL, but so can IND’s, and IND is getting EU DL service so why not TPA?

Because flying to ATL from IND to Europe is flying grossly out of they way and I suspect Delta was losing a lot of the IND europe traffic to AA and UA who were using ORD for their one stop onward connections to Europe. In most cases the logical business traveler who time is most important to is not going to fly IND-ATL-Europe they are going to ORD.

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

Why can’t IND DL passengers connect to EU via ATL for their one stop access? Yes, DL can continue to push EU- TPA passengers over ATL, but both TPA and AMS are working on nonstop AMS-TPA service and TPA can support a nonstop sky team flight to Europe. You are contradicting yourself by saying that TPA EU passengers should all go thru ATL but IND’s EU traffic shouldn’t. All of TPA’s and IND’s DL EU traffic could connect via ATL, but DL is trying new things, hence IND-CDG. You still haven’t given a good reason for why AMS-TPA isn’t going to happen. Yes TPA travelers can connect at ATL, but so can IND’s, and IND is getting EU DL service so why not TPA?

Because flying to ATL from IND to Europe is flying grossly out of they way and I suspect Delta was losing a lot of the IND europe traffic to AA and UA who were using ORD for their one stop onward connections to Europe. In most cases the logical business traveler who time is most important to is not going to fly IND-ATL-Europe they are going to ORD.

ATL’s EU service isn’t adequately serving the TPA- EU market. AMS would provide TPA with the one stop service it needs that can’t be provided by ATL.

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Because flying to ATL from IND to Europe is flying grossly out of they way and I suspect Delta was losing a lot of the IND europe traffic to AA and UA who were using ORD for their one stop onward connections to Europe. In most cases the logical business traveler who time is most important to is not going to fly IND-ATL-Europe they are going to ORD.

ATL’s EU service isn’t adequately serving the TPA- EU market. AMS would provide TPA with the one stop service it needs that can’t be provided by ATL.

ATL provides one stop commendations to every major city in Europe and then some. You think that Delta is going to operate TPA-AMS for the one passenger a week that needs to get from TPA to NCE with one stop that person is going to have to use ATL and make two stops.

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

ATL’s EU service isn’t adequately serving the TPA- EU market. AMS would provide TPA with the one stop service it needs that can’t be provided by ATL.

ATL provides one stop commendations to every major city in Europe and then some. You think that Delta is going to operate TPA-AMS for the one passenger a week that needs to get from TPA to NCE with one stop that person is going to have to use ATL and make two stops.

AMS and TPA are targeting the route for a reason. AMS provides increase options for EU travelers and for people connecting to India/ Middle East. Then why does LH fly to TPA? They could just route all the traffic via EWR. DL is growing their Trans Atlantic service to cities outside of their hubs. I get it. You don't think TPA needs more EU service, but DL is growing and TPA will probably be a part of it.

flymco753 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

ATL provides one stop commendations to every major city in Europe and then some. You think that Delta is going to operate TPA-AMS for the one passenger a week that needs to get from TPA to NCE with one stop that person is going to have to use ATL and make two stops.

AMS and TPA are targeting the route for a reason. AMS provides increase options for EU travelers and for people connecting to India/ Middle East. Then why does LH fly to TPA? They could just route all the traffic via EWR. DL is growing their Trans Atlantic service to cities outside of their hubs. I get it. You don't think TPA needs more EU service, but DL is growing and TPA will probably be a part of it.

As an MCO guy, you might think I would say that TPA doesn't need AMS service, but when you approach KL, you approach DL. I would say wait a little bit on TPA-AMS because there can be two ways this goes and MCO will play a large factor into it. Either DL's service will be so miserable that it won't work, which I really hope that doesn't happen. Or MCO will work pretty good, they'll add CDG and look into TPA with a DL 76W. MCO getting AF/DL to CDG could happen in the short term, so it's closer than you think, definitely before 2020.

FLYKTPA wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

AMS and TPA are targeting the route for a reason. AMS provides increase options for EU travelers and for people connecting to India/ Middle East. Then why does LH fly to TPA? They could just route all the traffic via EWR. DL is growing their Trans Atlantic service to cities outside of their hubs. I get it. You don't think TPA needs more EU service, but DL is growing and TPA will probably be a part of it.

As an MCO guy, you might think I would say that TPA doesn't need AMS service, but when you approach KL, you approach DL. I would say wait a little bit on TPA-AMS because there can be two ways this goes and MCO will play a large factor into it. Either DL's service will be so miserable that it won't work, which I really hope that doesn't happen. Or MCO will work pretty good, they'll add CDG and look into TPA with a DL 76W. MCO getting AF/DL to CDG could happen in the short term, so it's closer than you think, definitely before 2020.

I can’t imagine AMS-MCO being anything other then a huge success.

flymco753 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

As an MCO guy, you might think I would say that TPA doesn't need AMS service, but when you approach KL, you approach DL. I would say wait a little bit on TPA-AMS because there can be two ways this goes and MCO will play a large factor into it. Either DL's service will be so miserable that it won't work, which I really hope that doesn't happen. Or MCO will work pretty good, they'll add CDG and look into TPA with a DL 76W. MCO getting AF/DL to CDG could happen in the short term, so it's closer than you think, definitely before 2020.

I can’t imagine AMS-MCO being anything other then a huge success.

That's what I've been thinking, I can't see it not being a success seeming it's a pretty big deal moving people from all of Europe to Orlando, which is why I think TPA should give DL the upper hand on doing AMS at first. My next question is TPA has the expectation of AMS, would TPA be okay with CDG even? I don't see why not. Also if IIRC, Joon is supposedly announcing S18 soon. If in case they move some AF planes out of new Joon stations than that could free up some planes for AF to use on MCO. I just don't see Joon wanting to do MCO or TPA.

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

ATL’s EU service isn’t adequately serving the TPA- EU market. AMS would provide TPA with the one stop service it needs that can’t be provided by ATL.

ATL provides one stop commendations to every major city in Europe and then some. You think that Delta is going to operate TPA-AMS for the one passenger a week that needs to get from TPA to NCE with one stop that person is going to have to use ATL and make two stops.

AMS and TPA are targeting the route for a reason. AMS provides increase options for EU travelers and for people connecting to India/ Middle East. Then why does LH fly to TPA? They could just route all the traffic via EWR. DL is growing their Trans Atlantic service to cities outside of their hubs. I get it. You don't think TPA needs more EU service, but DL is growing and TPA will probably be a part of it.

FLYKTPA wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

I can’t imagine AMS-MCO being anything other then a huge success.

That's what I've been thinking, I can't see it not being a success seeming it's a pretty big deal moving people from all of Europe to Orlando, which is why I think TPA should give DL the upper hand on doing AMS at first. My next question is TPA has the expectation of AMS, would TPA be okay with CDG even? I don't see why not. Also if IIRC, Joon is supposedly announcing S18 soon. If in case they move some AF planes out of new Joon stations than that could free up some planes for AF to use on MCO. I just don't see Joon wanting to do MCO or TPA.

TPA’s Air service guy mentioned that Norwegian was who they thought could best serve CDG. For some reason, TPA seems to be more interested in AMS vs CDG for DL/KLM/AF. I have a feeling MCO will get Joon and maybe eventually TPA.

FLYKTPA wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

AMS and TPA are targeting the route for a reason. AMS provides increase options for EU travelers and for people connecting to India/ Middle East. Then why does LH fly to TPA? They could just route all the traffic via EWR. DL is growing their Trans Atlantic service to cities outside of their hubs. I get it. You don't think TPA needs more EU service, but DL is growing and TPA will probably be a part of it.

As an MCO guy, you might think I would say that TPA doesn't need AMS service, but when you approach KL, you approach DL. I would say wait a little bit on TPA-AMS because there can be two ways this goes and MCO will play a large factor into it. Either DL's service will be so miserable that it won't work, which I really hope that doesn't happen. Or MCO will work pretty good, they'll add CDG and look into TPA with a DL 76W. MCO getting AF/DL to CDG could happen in the short term, so it's closer than you think, definitely before 2020.

I can’t imagine AMS-MCO being anything other then a huge success.

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

ATL provides one stop commendations to every major city in Europe and then some. You think that Delta is going to operate TPA-AMS for the one passenger a week that needs to get from TPA to NCE with one stop that person is going to have to use ATL and make two stops.

AMS and TPA are targeting the route for a reason. AMS provides increase options for EU travelers and for people connecting to India/ Middle East. Then why does LH fly to TPA? They could just route all the traffic via EWR. DL is growing their Trans Atlantic service to cities outside of their hubs. I get it. You don't think TPA needs more EU service, but DL is growing and TPA will probably be a part of it.

I never said that AMS and TPA should not be connected I just said it won't be on DL or KL. Look it took them eons to add MCO and MIA what makes you think that they will add TPA in short order Delta does not chase after the low yielding Florida vacation traveler there has to be so up front potential that's why you have BA going to LGW and Jump and Edelweiss which in the upcoming season is reducing TPA to ZRH in favor of MCO. EWR is not 200 miles away from TPA like EWR is so going to FRA is just as practical as a plane change at EWR

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

AMS and TPA are targeting the route for a reason. AMS provides increase options for EU travelers and for people connecting to India/ Middle East. Then why does LH fly to TPA? They could just route all the traffic via EWR. DL is growing their Trans Atlantic service to cities outside of their hubs. I get it. You don't think TPA needs more EU service, but DL is growing and TPA will probably be a part of it.

I never said that AMS and TPA should not be connected I just said it won't be on DL or KL. Look it took them eons to add MCO and MIA what makes you think that they will add TPA in short order Delta does not chase after the low yielding Florida vacation traveler there has to be so up front potential that's why you have BA going to LGW and Jump and Edelweiss which in the upcoming season is reducing TPA to ZRH in favor of MCO. EWR is not 200 miles away from TPA like EWR is so going to FRA is just as practical as a plane change at EWR

TPA isn’t just a low yield tourist destination. LH has been unexpectedly surprised with how well the business class on the FRA flights have performed. TPA is rumored to be getting a larger business class configuration from LH next year. BA goes to LGW because they love filling the whole flight with O&D tickets at high fares. Yes, we don’t have anywhere near the # of business travelers that ORD, LAX ,MIA,BOS ect have but we do have enough business demand to support another network carrier to Europe. TPA doesn’t target new service that doesn’t make sense in the long run. TPA has a solid case for a AMS flght and if you don’t agree with it that’s fine.

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

I will say, if DL were to launch BNA-AMS, it would be a huge slap in the face to MEM.

Why? I doubt MEM is expecting TATL service any time soon.

So much has changed in both Memphis and Nashville and in the industry environment since KLM flew MEM-AMS that it is relatively ancient history.

jubguy3 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

Getting back to the original rumor that DL is possibly going to add up to 6 new AMS-US routes, these are the cities that I see getting DL AMS routes:
RDU- because DL loves RDU, and their CDG flight seems to be doing well.
AUS- rumor is that it will become a permanent flight.
LAS- the Brookings numbers show that AMS-LAS is actually a large market by itself even without KLM feed that would use the flight.
MSY- has good European demand and to provide a Skyteam link to MSY.
SAN- route wanted by both AMS & SAN, they also have very strong European demand.
TPA- route wanted by both AMS and TPA, needs additional connectivity to a large EU hub.
What 6 cities do you think will get AMS service via DL later this Fall?

MKE
LAS
PHX
DEN
CVG
DFW

One of these things is not like the others... which one is different, do you know?

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

Getting back to the original rumor that DL is possibly going to add up to 6 new AMS-US routes, these are the cities that I see getting DL AMS routes:
RDU- because DL loves RDU, and their CDG flight seems to be doing well.
AUS- rumor is that it will become a permanent flight.
LAS- the Brookings numbers show that AMS-LAS is actually a large market by itself even without KLM feed that would use the flight.
MSY- has good European demand and to provide a Skyteam link to MSY.
SAN- route wanted by both AMS & SAN, they also have very strong European demand.
TPA- route wanted by both AMS and TPA, needs additional connectivity to a large EU hub.
What 6 cities do you think will get AMS service via DL later this Fall?

MKE
LAS
PHX
DEN
CVG
DFW

Indy wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

Capn wrote:

I would like to add my CONSIDERABLE 2CENTS, and say AMS will be adding in near future:
AUS BNA DEN SAN STL seem like very plausible adds in near future
Remember what value I placed on this.

I will say, if DL were to launch BNA-AMS, it would be a huge slap in the face to MEM. I doubt DL launches any TATL route (AMS or CDG) out of BNA for at least 2-3 years though.

I doubt BNA gets AMS for a long time. They are a very strong domestic market but I think they will have a lot to prove when it comes to international service. I think a more likely 2nd flight would be WOW just because they are going up against BA pricing. I think that will be typical of most markets of this size. They will start with a major carrier followed by a carrier like WOW stimulating demand a bit more. Of course all bets are off if Nashville lands HQ2.

ADrum23 wrote:

jubguy3 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

MKE
LAS
PHX
DEN
CVG
DFW

One of these things is not like the others... which one is different, do you know?

DFW......

ADrum23 wrote:

jubguy3 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

MKE
LAS
PHX
DEN
CVG
DFW

One of these things is not like the others... which one is different, do you know?

DFW......

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

Getting back to the original rumor that DL is possibly going to add up to 6 new AMS-US routes, these are the cities that I see getting DL AMS routes:
RDU- because DL loves RDU, and their CDG flight seems to be doing well.
AUS- rumor is that it will become a permanent flight.
LAS- the Brookings numbers show that AMS-LAS is actually a large market by itself even without KLM feed that would use the flight.
MSY- has good European demand and to provide a Skyteam link to MSY.
SAN- route wanted by both AMS & SAN, they also have very strong European demand.
TPA- route wanted by both AMS and TPA, needs additional connectivity to a large EU hub.
What 6 cities do you think will get AMS service via DL later this Fall?

MKE
LAS
PHX
DEN
CVG
DFW

cvgComair wrote:

Interestingly DL has cut its 3rd frequency on ATL-LHR, giving it two daily LHR slots not being used starting this Spring.

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

Then why is DL going to fly MCO-AMS and IND-CDG? According to you, those passengers can just connect in ATL, JFK ect.
Going by your logic-
MKE- convention access to MSP & DTW for EU
DFW- fly to ATL for EU
LAS, DEN, SAN & PHX can all go to LAX and SLC for EU.
So why fly to any of those cites?

MCO because have you ever heard of Disney it's a huge draw for Europeans. I said One Stop IND does not have convenient one stop access to most of Europe without a flight to CDG same for all the Western cities I named were as Florida and the surounding states have those one stop flights available over ATL so there is no need for direct access to Europe. I agree that DFW could use ATL but was hard preesed to come up with a 6th city so since it was linked to AMS before by KLM I added it to my list but not really believing it will get AMS access. Over DTW and MSP you only have 4 year round cities you could get to year round with FCO, MUC and KEF added to the list in the summer months. It's funny how people throw out all this great logic but when you toss that same logic back at them about the markets they are defending they can't embrace it. If there ever comes a TPA-AMS link it will not be on DL/KL

Why can’t IND DL passengers connect to EU via ATL for their one stop access? Yes, DL can continue to push EU- TPA passengers over ATL, but both TPA and AMS are working on nonstop AMS-TPA service and TPA can support a nonstop sky team flight to Europe. You are contradicting yourself by saying that TPA EU passengers should all go thru ATL but IND’s EU traffic shouldn’t. All of TPA’s and IND’s DL EU traffic could connect via ATL, but DL is trying new things, hence IND-CDG. You still haven’t given a good reason for why AMS-TPA isn’t going to happen. Yes TPA travelers can connect at ATL, but so can IND’s, and IND is getting EU DL service so why not TPA?

flymco753 wrote:

cvgComair wrote:

Interestingly DL has cut its 3rd frequency on ATL-LHR, giving it two daily LHR slots not being used starting this Spring.

MCO, I'm telling you, and than split the last slot between DTW and CVG to make DTW's LHR flight 2x daily and CVG a new LHR flight.

ADrum23 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

cvgComair wrote:

Interestingly DL has cut its 3rd frequency on ATL-LHR, giving it two daily LHR slots not being used starting this Spring.

MCO, I'm telling you, and than split the last slot between DTW and CVG to make DTW's LHR flight 2x daily and CVG a new LHR flight.

Is there any word at all about DL launching CVG-LHR or is that just a.net speculation? I could see them replacing CVG-CDG with CVG-LHR, but two DL TATL flights out of CVG? Eh, I don't know.

atypical wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

klm617 wrote:

MCO because have you ever heard of Disney it's a huge draw for Europeans. I said One Stop IND does not have convenient one stop access to most of Europe without a flight to CDG same for all the Western cities I named were as Florida and the surounding states have those one stop flights available over ATL so there is no need for direct access to Europe. I agree that DFW could use ATL but was hard preesed to come up with a 6th city so since it was linked to AMS before by KLM I added it to my list but not really believing it will get AMS access. Over DTW and MSP you only have 4 year round cities you could get to year round with FCO, MUC and KEF added to the list in the summer months. It's funny how people throw out all this great logic but when you toss that same logic back at them about the markets they are defending they can't embrace it. If there ever comes a TPA-AMS link it will not be on DL/KL

Why can’t IND DL passengers connect to EU via ATL for their one stop access? Yes, DL can continue to push EU- TPA passengers over ATL, but both TPA and AMS are working on nonstop AMS-TPA service and TPA can support a nonstop sky team flight to Europe. You are contradicting yourself by saying that TPA EU passengers should all go thru ATL but IND’s EU traffic shouldn’t. All of TPA’s and IND’s DL EU traffic could connect via ATL, but DL is trying new things, hence IND-CDG. You still haven’t given a good reason for why AMS-TPA isn’t going to happen. Yes TPA travelers can connect at ATL, but so can IND’s, and IND is getting EU DL service so why not TPA?

Not disagreeing with you at all, but the following points also factor in IND service. Although some passengers do go through ATL (and MSP, DFW. Maybe JFK) to EU. The majority of that traffic works it way through ORD in which does not generally benefit DL. Through DL passengers also gains one stop service to transfers that are now two stops. Tampa has 5x and 6x weekly service to FRA and LGW along with 2x weekly service to KEF and ZRH. With TPA's much larger service population and tourism draw I do not think a comparison to IND is going to provide much insight for one or the other.

ADrum23 wrote:

I think the BA flight will do at least as well as MSY, and while I don't ever see the BA flight being as successful as AUS

jubguy3 wrote:

because of the french heritage in New Orleans

cvgComair wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

MCO, I'm telling you, and than split the last slot between DTW and CVG to make DTW's LHR flight 2x daily and CVG a new LHR flight.

Is there any word at all about DL launching CVG-LHR or is that just a.net speculation? I could see them replacing CVG-CDG with CVG-LHR, but two DL TATL flights out of CVG? Eh, I don't know.

At this point, it is all a.net speculation (hence why I did not mention it). The only hard information I have is that P&G has been lobbying DL for the flight, but that does not mean much. I am sure they lobby for Asia service and plenty of other routes CVG will not see.

I am sure they plan on doing something with that slot, but there are dozens of possibilities other than CVG-LHR.

flymco753 wrote:

cvgComair wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

Is there any word at all about DL launching CVG-LHR or is that just a.net speculation? I could see them replacing CVG-CDG with CVG-LHR, but two DL TATL flights out of CVG? Eh, I don't know.

At this point, it is all a.net speculation (hence why I did not mention it). The only hard information I have is that P&G has been lobbying DL for the flight, but that does not mean much. I am sure they lobby for Asia service and plenty of other routes CVG will not see.

I am sure they plan on doing something with that slot, but there are dozens of possibilities other than CVG-LHR.

All speculation, but that's one of the places the slot could be used, why use it on a non hub or non focus market? RDU already has AA to LHR, and a DL flight would saturate it. MCO could be a logical option, but I would put CVG in 3rd priority behind DTW going back to 2x daily, MCO getting LHR, and than CVG getting an split flight with the remaining days not being used by DTW.

flymco753 wrote:

cvgComair wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

Is there any word at all about DL launching CVG-LHR or is that just a.net speculation? I could see them replacing CVG-CDG with CVG-LHR, but two DL TATL flights out of CVG? Eh, I don't know.

At this point, it is all a.net speculation (hence why I did not mention it). The only hard information I have is that P&G has been lobbying DL for the flight, but that does not mean much. I am sure they lobby for Asia service and plenty of other routes CVG will not see.

I am sure they plan on doing something with that slot, but there are dozens of possibilities other than CVG-LHR.

All speculation, but that's one of the places the slot could be used, why use it on a non hub or non focus market? RDU already has AA to LHR, and a DL flight would saturate it. MCO could be a logical option, but I would put CVG in 3rd priority behind DTW going back to 2x daily, MCO getting LHR, and than CVG getting an split flight with the remaining days not being used by DTW.

LAX772LR wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

I think the BA flight will do at least as well as MSY, and while I don't ever see the BA flight being as successful as AUS

You just contradicted yourself within a single sentence.

Though MSY started with one less weekly frequency than AUS, it's growing at the same (and in some months, slightly faster) rate for BA that AUS did in its first year.

ADrum23 wrote:

Is there any word at all about DL launching CVG-LHR or is that just a.net speculation? I could see them replacing CVG-CDG with CVG-LHR, but two DL TATL flights out of CVG? Eh, I don't know.

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

Is there any word at all about DL launching CVG-LHR or is that just a.net speculation? I could see them replacing CVG-CDG with CVG-LHR, but two DL TATL flights out of CVG? Eh, I don't know.

If DL were to start CVG-LHR, it would almost certainly be in addition to CDG, since DL has very little connectivity out of LHR.

ADrum23 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

cvgComair wrote:

At this point, it is all a.net speculation (hence why I did not mention it). The only hard information I have is that P&G has been lobbying DL for the flight, but that does not mean much. I am sure they lobby for Asia service and plenty of other routes CVG will not see.

I am sure they plan on doing something with that slot, but there are dozens of possibilities other than CVG-LHR.

All speculation, but that's one of the places the slot could be used, why use it on a non hub or non focus market? RDU already has AA to LHR, and a DL flight would saturate it. MCO could be a logical option, but I would put CVG in 3rd priority behind DTW going back to 2x daily, MCO getting LHR, and than CVG getting an split flight with the remaining days not being used by DTW.

Serious question, why does MCO need LHR? Why not just lobby the existing BA flight to switch from LGW to LHR?

flymco753 wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

All speculation, but that's one of the places the slot could be used, why use it on a non hub or non focus market? RDU already has AA to LHR, and a DL flight would saturate it. MCO could be a logical option, but I would put CVG in 3rd priority behind DTW going back to 2x daily, MCO getting LHR, and than CVG getting an split flight with the remaining days not being used by DTW.

Serious question, why does MCO need LHR? Why not just lobby the existing BA flight to switch from LGW to LHR?

Your question is as good as mine, but the GOAA has stated several times it's a service that's a priority for the future. BA could do it, DL could do it, VS could do it so this question will remain a speculation until something comes to fruition like the GOAA hopes.

braniff2hav wrote:

Rest assured DL or a Skyteam partner will be linking MSY with either AMS or CDG. The market is there - it's very likely more inbound heavy with tourist/business/oil-gas related traffic/crew change related. The power of either hub is significant and offers connections to smaller markets in Europe that are not currently one-stop and also to the middle east/india and africa. DL/SkyTeam is not going to let the market be taken by other alliances or low fare carriers. While I do believe it could put DE in jeopardy, I doubt they would sting BA at all.

ADrum23 wrote:

Has the MSY-LHR BA flight been upgauged to daily yet?

ADrum23 wrote:

Do you honestly believe BNA will see their flight someday upgauged to a 747?

ADrum23 wrote:

DE is only seasonal and it's not a great airline anyway (pretty outdated airplanes if you ask me).

FLYKTPA wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

klm617 wrote:

MKE
LAS
PHX
DEN
CVG
DFW

The original rumor read to me like six other cities and that RDU was the "model", so I don't figure RDU. MCO just got AMS and IND just got CDG, so I'd think they're both out.

AUS, TPA, CMH, MKE, LAS, MSY

I agree that all of those cities are highly likely. Especially LAS, with its large EU market that has little EU service outside of the UK.

ADrum23 wrote:

Midwestindy posted this interesting bit of info in the DL add IND-CDG thread. He got it from another forum.

Speaking about Delta: "This is a result of Network turning their efforts to "focus" cities. These are cities that are underserved and are not a hub for competitors. The model for DL was RDU. In short order, we add ~20 non-stops per peak day (often only 1 flight to many hubs) and a transatlantic flight to CDG, AMS or LHR. Can't talk specifics on this open forum. Think of large cities, near competitor hubs that we currently have only 4x service each day to a couple of our hubs. Austin would fit that description and we have already announced increased service. There are at least 6 others that are being considered. You will see AMS flights to new cities announced later this Fall."

Midwestindy then said: I think this might deserve a separate thread...

So I'll get it started. What does the above mean? Which cities will become focus cities? Which cities will get AMS flights?

My guess is AUS will be one of the cities getting a year-round AMS flight on DL in the near future.

ADrum23 wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

I'd add BNA as well, but maybe it's too close of proximity to the main ATL hub.......

Good point. Is it really that much closer than RDU to make a difference?

BNA is closer to ATL than RDU, so I don't know if DL would be keen on making Nashville a focus city. Especially since CVG is still a hub and it's fairly close to BNA as well.

FLYKTPA wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

Midwestindy posted this interesting bit of info in the DL add IND-CDG thread. He got it from another forum.

Speaking about Delta: "This is a result of Network turning their efforts to "focus" cities. These are cities that are underserved and are not a hub for competitors. The model for DL was RDU. In short order, we add ~20 non-stops per peak day (often only 1 flight to many hubs) and a transatlantic flight to CDG, AMS or LHR. Can't talk specifics on this open forum. Think of large cities, near competitor hubs that we currently have only 4x service each day to a couple of our hubs. Austin would fit that description and we have already announced increased service. There are at least 6 others that are being considered. You will see AMS flights to new cities announced later this Fall."

Midwestindy then said: I think this might deserve a separate thread...

So I'll get it started. What does the above mean? Which cities will become focus cities? Which cities will get AMS flights?

My guess is AUS will be one of the cities getting a year-round AMS flight on DL in the near future.

It’s November 17th and we still haven’t heard anything about the rumored new DL flights to be added this fall.