dtw2hyd
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:56 pm

dubaiamman243 wrote:
Emirates is looking for an A380 order to replace older A380s in mid 2020.


I think STC is having fun with Airbus. If UK, Germany and France drop export guarantees, there is no way Airbus can sell at previous prices.
 
Momo1435
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:07 pm

dubaiamman243 wrote:
Emirates is looking for an A380 order to replace older A380s in mid 2020.
http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/e ... -1.2104106

The whole tone of the article is that Emirates will not rush any orders, either with A or B, just for the Airshow. That sounds very much like there won't be any announcements from Emirates next month in Dubai.

Which is in line with the general trend in aviation, airlines are not placing orders with deliveries so far out as the mid 2020s. It's simply not needed anymore as the backlogs are not as big anymore while A & B are willing to raise production rates if needed to create new delivery slots.
 
Jayafe
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:08 pm

dubaiamman243 wrote:
Emirates is looking for an A380 order to replace older A380s in mid 2020.
http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/e ... -1.2104106


Plus is coming...

Clark said an order for more of the superjumbo aircraft was under consideration, adding that any A380 order would help replace 25 A380s due to be retired in the middle 2020s.

“Airbus would love us to do that but we’ve got a few things to sort out first so I’m not sure that we’ll get there for the air show,” he said.
 
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Slug71
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:04 pm

Jayafe wrote:
dubaiamman243 wrote:
Emirates is looking for an A380 order to replace older A380s in mid 2020.
http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/e ... -1.2104106


Plus is coming...

Clark said an order for more of the superjumbo aircraft was under consideration, adding that any A380 order would help replace 25 A380s due to be retired in the middle 2020s.

“Airbus would love us to do that but we’ve got a few things to sort out first so I’m not sure that we’ll get there for the air show,” he said.


I'm somewhat doubtful about an A380 order at Dubai. IIRC, EK wasn't too impressed with the Plus proposal and the removal of the staircase. EK has also in the past, asked Airbus to do a NEO and redesign the wing. Though for obvious reasons, a NEO is not currently possible. I think the Plus resulted from that as a cheaper alternative and it doesn't appear that EK (or anyone else)took the bait. But we shall see. EK has also stated that they want to see more orders from other customers before they place any large order. It would be nice though. Especially if it gets orders from other airlines too.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:14 pm

Slug71 wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
dubaiamman243 wrote:
Emirates is looking for an A380 order to replace older A380s in mid 2020.
http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/e ... -1.2104106


Plus is coming...

Clark said an order for more of the superjumbo aircraft was under consideration, adding that any A380 order would help replace 25 A380s due to be retired in the middle 2020s.

“Airbus would love us to do that but we’ve got a few things to sort out first so I’m not sure that we’ll get there for the air show,” he said.


I'm somewhat doubtful about an A380 order at Dubai. IIRC, EK wasn't too impressed with the Plus proposal and the removal of the staircase. EK has also in the past, asked Airbus to do a NEO and redesign the wing. Though for obvious reasons, a NEO is not currently possible. I think the Plus resulted from that as a cheaper alternative and it doesn't appear that EK (or anyone else)took the bait. But we shall see. EK has also stated that they want to see more orders from other customers before they place any large order. It would be nice though. Especially if it gets orders from other airlines too.


The plus and a neo do not exclude each other. The plus is a batch of proposals, that do not depend on each other. If the aerodynamic work on the wings in the plus proposal bring 4% less fuel burn, that is quite a bit.
 
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:18 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Strato2 wrote:
This is just a gut feeling but Emirates will do with Boeing what it did when it axed the A350 in favor of more A380's but this time it will reduce the massive 777X order and convert them to 787's.


That might actually be quite logical. Trading in 777x orders for 78X orders. Gives them more flexibility in years to come, if the need arises, they could always reorder the 777X. This will not please Boeing though, 777X isn't doing that well, except in the Middle East.


The 777X isn't doing well?! Are you serious? Enough already :banghead: 326 orders, and it's not doing well! Only an Airbus fan can downplay that!
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:33 pm

Slug71 wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
Clark said an order for more of the superjumbo aircraft was under consideration, adding that any A380 order would help replace 25 A380s due to be retired in the middle 2020s.

“Airbus would love us to do that but we’ve got a few things to sort out first so I’m not sure that we’ll get there for the air show,” he said.


I'm somewhat doubtful about an A380 order at Dubai. IIRC, EK wasn't too impressed with the Plus proposal and the removal of the staircase. EK has also in the past, asked Airbus to do a NEO and redesign the wing. Though for obvious reasons, a NEO is not currently possible. I think the Plus resulted from that as a cheaper alternative and it doesn't appear that EK (or anyone else)took the bait. But we shall see. EK has also stated that they want to see more orders from other customers before they place any large order. It would be nice though. Especially if it gets orders from other airlines too.


You realise that the quote is from Clark himself right? And he is not saying it's a matter of if, but amatter of when...
 
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:45 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Strato2 wrote:
This is just a gut feeling but Emirates will do with Boeing what it did when it axed the A350 in favor of more A380's but this time it will reduce the massive 777X order and convert them to 787's.


That might actually be quite logical. Trading in 777x orders for 78X orders. Gives them more flexibility in years to come, if the need arises, they could always reorder the 777X. This will not please Boeing though, 777X isn't doing that well, except in the Middle East.


The 777X isn't doing well?! Are you serious? Enough already :banghead: 326 orders, and it's not doing well! Only an Airbus fan can downplay that!

Meanwhile, the A330neo with 210 orders is doing very well and is beating the 787 due to its "quick availability and commonality with the current A330s".......oh wait, they are wrong.
 
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:52 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
Meanwhile, the A330neo with 210 orders is doing very well and is beating the 787 due to its "quick availability and commonality with the current A330s".......oh wait, they are wrong.


It did outsell its prime competitor, though (787-10).
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:53 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
Meanwhile, the A330neo with 210 orders is doing very well and is beating the 787 due to its "quick availability and commonality with the current A330s".......oh wait, they are wrong.


It did outsell its prime competitor, though (787-10).

I was under the impression that the A330neo's main competitor is the 787-9, hasn't it been the case all along?
 
NZ321
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:05 pm

I don't expect A380 plus orders. I do think an EK decision on the 787-10 vs A350 is a possibility but we could also have to wait a bit longer. However, latest financials suggest things are on the up. But I'm not expecting anything startling. Don't expect any US carriers to announce orders at this show at the mo. I think it's going to be on the quiet side. Nothing expected from QF or NZ although we know orders are in the pipeline. We could see a couple of A330 neo orders and a couple more for the 787 given Boeing's decision to ramp up production. Maybe a top-up or a new customer for the A350. Unlikely but possible is an order for the 777X. We might see a C series order. Maybe another for the MRJ. Nothing particularly exciting is my prediction in the current environs. But hope I am wrong :)
 
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:44 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
The plus and a neo do not exclude each other. The plus is a batch of proposals, that do not depend on each other. If the aerodynamic work on the wings in the plus proposal bring 4% less fuel burn, that is quite a bit.


Yeh I didn't mean to imply they exclude each other. The 4% isn't bad, but they should have made the winglets retrofittable.

Jayafe wrote:
You realise that the quote is from Clark himself right? And he is not saying it's a matter of if, but amatter of when...


Yes. I said at Dubai! I don't doubt that there will be an order at some point. Which could even be at Dubai. I just have my doubts about that.
Last edited by Slug71 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:45 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

That might actually be quite logical. Trading in 777x orders for 78X orders. Gives them more flexibility in years to come, if the need arises, they could always reorder the 777X. This will not please Boeing though, 777X isn't doing that well, except in the Middle East.


The 777X isn't doing well?! Are you serious? Enough already :banghead: 326 orders, and it's not doing well! Only an Airbus fan can downplay that!

Meanwhile, the A330neo with 210 orders is doing very well and is beating the 787 due to its "quick availability and commonality with the current A330s".......oh wait, they are wrong.


KarelXWB wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
Meanwhile, the A330neo with 210 orders is doing very well and is beating the 787 due to its "quick availability and commonality with the current A330s".......oh wait, they are wrong.


It did outsell its prime competitor, though (787-10).


Clearly, both the 787-10 and A330neo will do fine, that much is true, but to say a widebody aircraft derived from a highly successful family with over 300 order is "not doing well" is not only preposterous to say, but intellectually dishonest. The same can be said about most widebody aircraft in development.

Dutchy is NOT a 777X fan. That's his right. But he cannot deny it's launched extremely well, and orders won't stop. I won't be surprised if 1-2 more airlines make a move on it in November And who cares if the biggest customers are ME3s thus far? It's sold elsewhere with some pretty high profile customers!
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:10 pm

Iraq Airways is considering ordering the B737MAX. Maybe an announcement will be made at the show?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:27 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
The 777X isn't doing well?! Are you serious? Enough already :banghead: 326 orders, and it's not doing well! Only an Airbus fan can downplay that!


Oh com'on.

326 orders:
- Emirates: 150
- Qatar Airways: 60

Middle East Orders: 210 (64%)

Same as the A380, most ME orders. The difference is that the 778/9 hasn't flown yet with the associated cost. Don't know if Boeing should continue with this, seems high risk.

Criticism Boeing = Airbus fanboy? :lol:

Wish Boeing well, don't know if the risk is worth it
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Slash787
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:16 pm

I heard Vistara is planning to take some 777's and A380 from the parent company Singapore Airlines.

Even before there were rumours of Vistara ordering some 777x

Maybe at the moment they can take some ex Singapore 777 and A380's, Place an order of 777x which will eventually replace them.
 
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:50 am

Dutchy wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
The 777X isn't doing well?! Are you serious? Enough already :banghead: 326 orders, and it's not doing well! Only an Airbus fan can downplay that!


Oh com'on.

326 orders:
- Emirates: 150
- Qatar Airways: 60

Middle East Orders: 210 (64%)


What really is the point you're trying to convey in this regard? 64% of orders are from two ME3s, therefore it's illegitimate? :?

Same as the A380, most ME orders. The difference is that the 778/9 hasn't flown yet


Precisely correct! The 777X has not flown yet! So I suggest waiting a few more years until you're able to make an educated opinion.

Criticism Boeing = Airbus fanboy? :lol:


I'm simply calling you out on your false opinion. Your opinion, albeit, but false nevertheless. You're not the only one on here who's critical of the plane, and the vast majority of those who are are Airbus fans. 1+1=2.

And, come on man, really? You're one of the biggest Airbus fans on this site :footinmouth:

Wish Boeing well, don't know if the risk is worth it


326 orders, derived from the most successful widebody family ever, about 2 years ahead of EIS with 747s, A340s, A380s and older 777s being retired in the next decade? Well worth the risk!
Been On: 722 733 73G 738, 752, 763, 77W, 788, A319, A320, A321, E140, E145, E45X, E175, C150, C172, C208, Q400, CRJ7, CRJ9, MD82, MD83, PA28
 
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:10 am

Boeing778X wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
The 777X isn't doing well?! Are you serious? Enough already :banghead: 326 orders, and it's not doing well! Only an Airbus fan can downplay that!


Oh com'on.

326 orders:
- Emirates: 150
- Qatar Airways: 60

Middle East Orders: 210 (64%)


What really is the point you're trying to convey in this regard? 64% of orders are from two ME3s, therefore it's illegitimate? :?

Same as the A380, most ME orders. The difference is that the 778/9 hasn't flown yet


Precisely correct! The 777X has not flown yet! So I suggest waiting a few more years until you're able to make an educated opinion.

Criticism Boeing = Airbus fanboy? :lol:


I'm simply calling you out on your false opinion. Your opinion, albeit, but false nevertheless. You're not the only one on here who's critical of the plane, and the vast majority of those who are are Airbus fans. 1+1=2.

And, come on man, really? You're one of the biggest Airbus fans on this site :footinmouth:

Wish Boeing well, don't know if the risk is worth it


326 orders, derived from the most successful widebody family ever, about 2 years ahead of EIS with 747s, A340s, A380s and older 777s being retired in the next decade? Well worth the risk!



Haha, that is one funny post :D

Opinion can never be false, by definition, it is an opinion, not a fact. And a beautiful example of reasoning: my dog has our feet, my cat has four feet, so my cat is a dog.

As to whether to continue the development of the 77X or not, for my living, I develop and judge large projects, but hack what do I know.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
B777LRF
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:31 am

To answer the original question: No, I do not expect any major orders. The ME3 + TK are not really in a position where they either need, nor can, place large orders. TK recently announced a large order for 787s and are well covered in the NB range too. EK have postponed the 787/A350 decision, QR is locked in a political stalemate and EY are, to put it mildly, not in a very good position financially and have aircraft on order they don't really have a need for.

Thus the biggest news coming out of Dubai 2017, will probably on the military side of the fence.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
mjoelnir
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:30 am

jeffrey0032j wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
Meanwhile, the A330neo with 210 orders is doing very well and is beating the 787 due to its "quick availability and commonality with the current A330s".......oh wait, they are wrong.


It did outsell its prime competitor, though (787-10).

I was under the impression that the A330neo's main competitor is the 787-9, hasn't it been the case all along?


Boeing promotes the 787-10 against the A330-900 as both competing in the same market, medium to long haul in the range below the 787-9, at least if the talk is about CASM.

Meanwhile the 787-9 has not outsold the A330-300 and the 787-8 has not outsold the A330-200. So if we add the A330-900 and A330-800 to those numbers, the 787 has still some work to do.
 
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:34 am

Boeing778X wrote:

326 orders, derived from the most successful widebody family ever, about 2 years ahead of EIS with 747s, A340s, A380s and older 777s being retired in the next decade? Well worth the risk!


The most successful wide body family ever is the A330-200/300 A340-200/300 and now A330-800/900. Same fuselage, same wings and different engines, beats out the 777.
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:34 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:

It did outsell its prime competitor, though (787-10).

I was under the impression that the A330neo's main competitor is the 787-9, hasn't it been the case all along?


Boeing promotes the 787-10 against the A330-900 as both competing in the same market, medium to long haul in the range below the 787-9, at least if the talk is about CASM.

Meanwhile the 787-9 has not outsold the A330-300 and the 787-8 has not outsold the A330-200. So if we add the A330-900 and A330-800 to those numbers, the 787 has still some work to do.

Thats common sense, the A330 has been around for a great deal longer. Should we then start a 777/A340 comparison in that case? If I were to make myself clearer it would be "How does the 787 have more outstanding orders than the A330neo?" Especially if the much touted argument of "availability and commonality with existing A330" is taken into consideration. Surely, the A330neo would had garnered more orders if the argument is true.

Fact remains that all 3 variants of the 787 has had healthy numbers of planes that are either built or will be built. The A330neo has a variant (-800) that has some difficulties in the market, and is being kept in the product line in hopes that military orders and cargo orders would save it.
 
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:47 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
The A330neo has a variant (-800) that has some difficulties in the market, and is being kept in the product line in hopes that military orders and cargo orders would save it.

I doubt Airbus will can the A338 for as long as Boeing's 788 is on offer. Meanwhile, PR is on record that they might top-up with 2 to 5 more A333 frames, but their current year's financials aren't exactly very well. I can see them going for the 251T A339 if that variant lives up to its touted performance. Failing that, the A338 may be a viable 1:1 replacement for the ex-IB A340s on their secondary NA markets and elsewhere. Guess the 77W will be too much plane for MNL-YVR/ORD/IAH once YYZ and JFK switch to nonstop, and the A359 may be a bit expensive for CEB-LAX if the A338 could make that distance without penalties.

Not a major order...but wouldn't it be an absolutely flabbergasting announcement if PR took over the remaining six A338neo order should Airbus make them an offer they couldn't refuse :?: :bigthumbsup:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:47 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:

326 orders, derived from the most successful widebody family ever, about 2 years ahead of EIS with 747s, A340s, A380s and older 777s being retired in the next decade? Well worth the risk!


The most successful wide body family ever is the A330-200/300 A340-200/300 and now A330-800/900. Same fuselage, same wings and different engines, beats out the 777.


Huh. Two different models, same type rating. I'll play ball:

A330/A340 = 1745 units built

777/787 = 2118 units built*

No...Just...no.

Independently:

A330: 1368
A340: 377
777: 1518*
787: 600

Orders:

A330: 326
A340: 0
777: 427
787: 683*

Based on Wiki info, which is updated regularly.

*Denotes a bigger number than the rest.

So...No...You wish...But no...

Dutchy wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Oh com'on.

326 orders:
- Emirates: 150
- Qatar Airways: 60

Middle East Orders: 210 (64%)


What really is the point you're trying to convey in this regard? 64% of orders are from two ME3s, therefore it's illegitimate? :?

Same as the A380, most ME orders. The difference is that the 778/9 hasn't flown yet


Precisely correct! The 777X has not flown yet! So I suggest waiting a few more years until you're able to make an educated opinion.

Criticism Boeing = Airbus fanboy? :lol:


I'm simply calling you out on your false opinion. Your opinion, albeit, but false nevertheless. You're not the only one on here who's critical of the plane, and the vast majority of those who are are Airbus fans. 1+1=2.

And, come on man, really? You're one of the biggest Airbus fans on this site :footinmouth:

Wish Boeing well, don't know if the risk is worth it


326 orders, derived from the most successful widebody family ever, about 2 years ahead of EIS with 747s, A340s, A380s and older 777s being retired in the next decade? Well worth the risk!



Haha, that is one funny post :D

Opinion can never be false, by definition, it is an opinion, not a fact. And a beautiful example of reasoning: my dog has our feet, my cat has four feet, so my cat is a dog.

As to whether to continue the development of the 77X or not, for my living, I develop and judge large projects, but hack what do I know.


I mean, alright, just be prepared to be disappointed when this thing turns out to be a success...Like it, I dunno, already is?
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mjoelnir
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:25 am

Boeing778X wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:

326 orders, derived from the most successful widebody family ever, about 2 years ahead of EIS with 747s, A340s, A380s and older 777s being retired in the next decade? Well worth the risk!


The most successful wide body family ever is the A330-200/300 A340-200/300 and now A330-800/900. Same fuselage, same wings and different engines, beats out the 777.


Huh. Two different models, same type rating. I'll play ball:

A330/A340 = 1745 units built

777/787 = 2118 units built*

No...Just...no.

Independently:

A330: 1368
A340: 377
777: 1518*
787: 600

Orders:

A330: 326
A340: 0
777: 427
787: 683*

Based on Wiki info, which is updated regularly.

*Denotes a bigger number than the rest.

So...No...You wish...But no...


Nice, so you talk about that the 777 and the 787 having the same fuselage and wings? And the only difference are the engines, changes to the MLG and some added ACTs?
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:48 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

The most successful wide body family ever is the A330-200/300 A340-200/300 and now A330-800/900. Same fuselage, same wings and different engines, beats out the 777.


Huh. Two different models, same type rating. I'll play ball:

A330/A340 = 1745 units built

777/787 = 2118 units built*

No...Just...no.

Independently:

A330: 1368
A340: 377
777: 1518*
787: 600

Orders:

A330: 326
A340: 0
777: 427
787: 683*

Based on Wiki info, which is updated regularly.

*Denotes a bigger number than the rest.

So...No...You wish...But no...


Nice, so you talk about that the 777 and the 787 having the same fuselage and wings? And the only difference are the engines, changes to the MLG and some added ACTs?


Says the guy who thinks the A330 and A340 are the same plane. Kind of, but not really. Still two different types. Obvious and not so obvious differences.

Because if they were, they'd be the same type, you know? :silly:

777 remains the most popular, and will be for some time.
Been On: 722 733 73G 738, 752, 763, 77W, 788, A319, A320, A321, E140, E145, E45X, E175, C150, C172, C208, Q400, CRJ7, CRJ9, MD82, MD83, PA28
 
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KarelXWB
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Posts: 25080
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: The Dubai Air Show Nov 2017. What Major Announcements Do You Expect?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:56 am

Thread has completely drifted off topic and will be locked.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.

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