Air Canada has just announced that they will offer new service from YVR to ZRH/CDG.

Additional capacity to DEL and LHR. MEL will go from seasonal to year around.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2017-08-31-Air-Canada-To-Launch-New-International-Boeing-787-Dreamliner-Routes-from-Vancouver

YVR-Melbourne (MEL) 3 times weekly Begins Jun 1, 2018 year-round
AC037 @ 22:45 Wed/Fri/Sun
AC038 @ 09:40 Tue/Fri/Sun (begins Jun 3)

YVR-Paris (CDG) 4 times weekly Jun 8-Oct 15, 2018
AC806 @ 13:30 Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun
AC807 @ 09:55 Mon/Tue/Thu/Sat

YVR-Zurich (ZRH) 3 times weekly Jun 7-Oct 14, 2018
AC802 @ 12:55 Tue/Thu/Sat
AC803 @ 09:30 Wed/Fri/Sun

Vancouver expansion in 2017:
So far in 2017, Air Canada has launched new services from its Vancouver hub to: Taipei (year-round), Frankfurt (seasonal), Nagoya (seasonal), London-Gatwick (seasonal), Dallas-Fort Worth (year-round), Denver (year-round) and Boston (seasonal). Delhi seasonal service resumes on Oct. 14 and will increase up to five times weekly for the 2017/2018 season. Still to launch are: Melbourne seasonal flights beginning Dec. 1, Yellowknife seasonal flights beginning Dec. 15, and Orlando seasonal flights beginning Dec. 20.

In addition, Air Canada is increasing its non-stop Delhi flights from Vancouver that resume October 14, with up to five times weekly service for the 2017/2018 season, and increasing its London-Heathrow service with twice-daily flights for summer 2018.

Great news! YVR has a lot of potential and I do feel it was overlooked until recently. AC has been too conservative before when it comes to new routes, glad to see they are expanding more aggressively now with the 789s. CDG should be easily profitable it would be interesting to see the yield of YVR-ZRH but I have confidence.

The addition of CDG was plausible and somewhat expected until AF jumped on the route not too long ago. Encouraging to see them tackle it now despite that. The new ZRH flight is a welcome surprise much like DUB was when it was announced.

No details anywhere yet on what the 2nd LHR operating times will be.... wonder if it will be a simple resurrection of last year's AC896 ~dep2100. Also curious as to whether the Rouge LGW will stay.

Aircraft choice for CDG and ZRH is also unannounced. I imagine it would be the same plane rotating theough so both would be the same type... just a question of if it will be the -8 or -9.

More goodies from the somewhat candid VP of network planning given during a press conference with local business leaders... BKK and SIN are still on the radar and are being considered due to being 'counter-seasonal', meaning they would peak during the typically slower months of the winter. All those new planes need jobs during most of the other 6 months of the year so this would be a good thing (if they can make money of course).

LIM is also noted as a possible longer-term add should the network feed materialize. It would be the first regular connection to South America xYVR.

Full article:
https://www.biv.com/article/2017/8/air-canada-adds-flights-vancouver-three-continents/

787 seems to be doing wonders at YVR, nice to see some solid growth.

Air Canada has not ceased to amaze me for several years now. I know that Canadians travel abroad more than Americans, but the sheer amount of international routes from Canada is amazing.

Like Norwegian, they have to put all that iron somewhere. Unlike other full service network airlines, AC doesn't like to park old aircraft.

All that capacity comes at a price. AC's margins are a fraction of what US carriers have been able to produce over the past few years in an era of cheap fuel.

Didnt know that AC already was on YVR-MEL on a seasonal basis. Thought it was only YVR-SYD/BNE. When did they start YVR-MEL?

B747forever wrote:

Didnt know that AC already was on YVR-MEL on a seasonal basis. Thought it was only YVR-SYD/BNE. When did they start YVR-MEL?

They haven't started yet, I believe it starts this Dec. Was suppose to be a trial, but bookings must be strong so they made it year round

yycdel wrote:

B747forever wrote:

Didnt know that AC already was on YVR-MEL on a seasonal basis. Thought it was only YVR-SYD/BNE. When did they start YVR-MEL?

They haven't started yet, I believe it starts this Dec. Was suppose to be a trial, but bookings must be strong so they made it year round

Thanks. AC will now have a solid network to Australia. Saves the need of going through the US and clearing immigration.

Great news! Loving the expansion from YVR and increased connection opportunities. Still hoping for SIN one day...

Great news although the AC 787 Y class is really infamous. It is a fixture on the YVR to YYZ route and it's unbearable on such a medium haul flight. Can't imagine doing 10 hours in agony. Although I'm sure it will help the bottom line.
ZRH will offer plent of connections to southern/Eastern Europe with Swiss.
CDG has decent O&D and right now AF is not winning any popularity contests at least on the European side.

Wow!!! Amazing news for my home airport, the number of international destinations from YVR is becoming incredible. I wonder if AF will continue it's service if AC is able to make success of YVR-CDG? 787's have changed everything, now if only AC would order some A350's so we could spread out a bit in Y.

The aggressive expansion continues, YVR certainly is becoming one of the world's true gateways. Of the airlines who have ordered and operate the 787, AC has definitely benefitted the most.

I wonder if time has come to consider YVR-MNL?

I had hoped AC mainline's expansion would lead them back to MAN from either YYZ or YVR.

A short summer seasonal from Rouge strikes me as somewhat underserved...

RL777 wrote:

The aggressive expansion continues, YVR certainly is becoming one of the world's true gateways. Of the airlines who have ordered and operate the 787, AC has definitely benefitted the most.

I don't expect too many more routes to come up seeing as how WB expansion will be coming to a close in the next 2 yrs after the final 787s on order are delivered.
*on the assumption the 13x options are not taken up and 10x purchase rights are left to expire.

Still to be delivered are 6x789s between now and S18 then 2x789s for S19.

Depending on pairings, that could be just a few routes left to be announced or frequencies upped on existing runs.

YVR-ZRH/CDG is 1x787 (daily)
YVR-MEL during summer is 1x787 (3/week)
YVR-LHR #2 is 1x787 (Daily)

3x787s to be allocated, assuming all other assignments roughly stay the same.

More on the story

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/air-can ... vancouver/

jimbo737 wrote:

Like Norwegian, they have to put all that iron somewhere. .

Because they're making money at it. Air Canada will have only 5 767s left at mainline within 16 months.

SuperTwin wrote:

RL777 wrote:

The aggressive expansion continues, YVR certainly is becoming one of the world's true gateways. Of the airlines who have ordered and operate the 787, AC has definitely benefitted the most.

I don't expect too many more routes to come up seeing as how WB expansion will be coming to a close in the next 2 yrs after the final 787s on order are delivered.
*on the assumption the 13x options are not taken up and 10x purchase rights are left to expire.

Still to be delivered are 6x789s between now and S18 then 2x789s for S19.

Depending on pairings, that could be just a few routes left to be announced or frequencies upped on existing runs.

YVR-ZRH/CDG is 1x787 (daily)
YVR-MEL during summer is 1x787 (3/week)
YVR-LHR #2 is 1x787 (Daily)

3x787s to be allocated, assuming all other assignments roughly stay the same.

Is there indication AC won't take up the options/purchase rights?

VCEflyboy wrote:

Great news although the AC 787 Y class is really infamous. It is a fixture on the YVR to YYZ route and it's unbearable on such a medium haul flight. Can't imagine doing 10 hours in agony.

To each their own, but I flew 8 hours NRT-YVR on that seat and it was the most comfortable TPAC flight I've had in recent history (more comfortable than CX 77W in my opinion)

I suspect the options will be taken-up barring any major economic slowdown. The options are supposedly priced the same, as those planes that were part of the original order so they would come at a very good price. Even if they just did a sale & leaseback as they have with a few of their recent deliveries. This way the debt-load would not rise materially. In fact these recent transactions actually made them money, as per the financial docs available on their website. Of course, it would not come without real risk of having to keep these machines in the air to pay the lessor(s) so a mission must be suitable and ready for them.

The purchase rights would require negotiation to determine the prices. I haven't seen any info detailing whether the options are already prescribed (-8 or -9 only) or whether it leaves the door open to the -10.

Keenly awaiting any info that might point to a partial conversion of the existing order or uptake of modified options/purchase rights that would include the -10. The same is true now of the 737 MAX10, especially since the 321NEO was preferred to the MAX9, so the MAX10 must be very appealing.

VCEflyboy wrote:

Great news although the AC 787 Y class is really infamous. It is a fixture on the YVR to YYZ route and it's unbearable on such a medium haul flight. Can't imagine doing 10 hours in agony. Although I'm sure it will help the bottom line.
ZRH will offer plent of connections to southern/Eastern Europe with Swiss.
CDG has decent O&D and right now AF is not winning any popularity contests at least on the European side.

It is great news!

As for the 787, I realize there are differences of opinion but it is a great experience for passengers. I bid and fly the 787 J galley position. I really enjoy working the 787 and J passengers all agree that it is a fine aircraft to fly on. When J has finished deplaning, I work my way to door 2 where Y class passengers deplane to say good-bye and thank you. The most rewarding part of the day after 12 or more hours on duty is to see the smiles and hear passengers say thank you. I can say with certainty and without a doubt that passengers in Y enjoy the experience as well. There are all sorts of comments about how they love the aircraft, best flight ever etc. Believe me, if passengers are unsatisfied they have no qualms about telling us so. Hope you give the 787 another chance and to see you again soon.

SuperTwin wrote:

More goodies from the somewhat candid VP of network planning given during a press conference with local business leaders... BKK and SIN are still on the radar and are being considered due to being 'counter-seasonal', meaning they would peak during the typically slower months of the winter. All those new planes need jobs during most of the other 6 months of the year so this would be a good thing (if they can make money of course).

LIM is also noted as a possible longer-term add should the network feed materialize. It would be the first regular connection to South America xYVR.

Full article:
https://www.biv.com/article/2017/8/air-canada-adds-flights-vancouver-three-continents/

Not the first regular connection to South America xYVR. CP Air (Canadian Pacific)did it for decades.
http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/com ... cp62-5.jpg

SuperTwin wrote:

More goodies from the somewhat candid VP of network planning given during a press conference with local business leaders... BKK and SIN are still on the radar and are being considered due to being 'counter-seasonal', meaning they would peak during the typically slower months of the winter. All those new planes need jobs during most of the other 6 months of the year so this would be a good thing (if they can make money of course).

LIM is also noted as a possible longer-term add should the network feed materialize. It would be the first regular connection to South America xYVR.

Full article:
https://www.biv.com/article/2017/8/air-canada-adds-flights-vancouver-three-continents/

YVR-SIN on AC would make some sense, but also would hurt UA's SFO-SIN and LAX-SIN quite a bit wouldn't it? I don't think AC cares about the impact it'll have on SQ though.

VCEflyboy wrote:

Great news although the AC 787 Y class is really infamous. It is a fixture on the YVR to YYZ route and it's unbearable on such a medium haul flight. Can't imagine doing 10 hours in agony. Although I'm sure it will help the bottom line.
ZRH will offer plent of connections to southern/Eastern Europe with Swiss.
CDG has decent O&D and right now AF is not winning any popularity contests at least on the European side.

Why are there so many negative comments on the economy seats on the 787? We flew on a 787-9 YYC-LHR-YYC and found it one of the most comfortable 9 hour flight we've taken. The slimline seats had great support and had plenty of leg room for a tall person. Probably the best plane I have flown on so far. Air Canada service was great too.

jmt18325 wrote:

jimbo737 wrote:

Like Norwegian, they have to put all that iron somewhere. .

Because they're making money at it. Air Canada will have only 5 767s left at mainline within 16 months.

Not much. Have you checked their margins recently compared to what's been going on in the US?

Flooding the market with capacity has reduced margins of all airlines based in Canada to a fraction of what US carriers are generating, even in an era of cheap fuel.

I'm not sure what the end game is. In the late 90's, AC's capacity surge was designed to drive Canadian out of business. Canadian had no balance sheet, marginally lower costs and were easy pickings, esp as WS was doing most of the dirty work in Western Canada.

Transat is weak, but holding its own with marginal profitability. WS hasn't lost money in a quarter for 10 years or more, and that was only as a result of writing off the -200 fleet 5 years earlier than expected and has unit costs 30% below AC's when adjusted for an identical 1,000 mile stage length.

Fuel will likely be cheap for at least a few more years but after that?

After that, you retire older planes if you have to - pretty simple stuff. The reality is, Air Canada has never made more money.

HJM wrote:

I wonder if time has come to consider YVR-MNL?

It's an interesting possibility. Canada has a gigantic Filipino community--they've been the biggest immigrant source country for the last few years--but they don't seem to generate the same amount of VFR traffic as the Indian-Canadian and Chinese-Canadian communities. If that ever changes, there would certainly be plenty of demand for MNL flights.

tofur wrote:

As for the 787, I realize there are differences of opinion but it is a great experience for passengers. I bid and fly the 787 J galley position. I really enjoy working the 787 and J passengers all agree that it is a fine aircraft to fly on. When J has finished deplaning, I work my way to door 2 where Y class passengers deplane to say good-bye and thank you. The most rewarding part of the day after 12 or more hours on duty is to see the smiles and hear passengers say thank you. I can say with certainty and without a doubt that passengers in Y enjoy the experience as well. There are all sorts of comments about how they love the aircraft, best flight ever etc. Believe me, if passengers are unsatisfied they have no qualms about telling us so. Hope you give the 787 another chance and to see you again soon.

You sound like someone who really cares. I hope I get you as an FA one day!

jimbo737 wrote:

Not much. Have you checked their margins recently compared to what's been going on in the US?

So the airline is thriving while also keeping fares low for passengers? Sounds great to me! And if anyone wants to argue they're not thriving, I hope you didn't put your money where your mouth is and short the stock over the last five years.

jbs2886 wrote:

SuperTwin wrote:

RL777 wrote:

The aggressive expansion continues, YVR certainly is becoming one of the world's true gateways. Of the airlines who have ordered and operate the 787, AC has definitely benefitted the most.

I don't expect too many more routes to come up seeing as how WB expansion will be coming to a close in the next 2 yrs after the final 787s on order are delivered.
*on the assumption the 13x options are not taken up and 10x purchase rights are left to expire.

Still to be delivered are 6x789s between now and S18 then 2x789s for S19.

Depending on pairings, that could be just a few routes left to be announced or frequencies upped on existing runs.

YVR-ZRH/CDG is 1x787 (daily)
YVR-MEL during summer is 1x787 (3/week)
YVR-LHR #2 is 1x787 (Daily)

3x787s to be allocated, assuming all other assignments roughly stay the same.

Is there indication AC won't take up the options/purchase rights?

I would speculate that some or all of the options will be taken up. The A330's and remaining 767's aren't getting any younger, and AC seems pretty adamant on continuing to grow internationally. I suspect the -10 is generating a lot of interest, as its size is a great benefit for YYZ that could use the extra seats and is limited by it's available gate slots. Down the road, they will also have to look at an aircraft to replace the 25 Rouge 767's, which logicially seems like it will be the 787 as well. Allotting for growth, AC, including Rouge could realistically have a fleet of ~75 787's in a decade's time. That is impressive for a country of 37 million.

I am really impressed with ACs expansion recently - those 787s really have transformed the routes the airline is willing to open and operate. Great stuff!

Can someone clarify the LHR expansion from YVR? I thought AC had previously expanded LHR to double daily or was that only seasonal or already reduced?

With double daily LHR service will that be 1x 77W and 1x 788/789? Year round?

On the topic of LHR - what is AC's plan with the 767 routes into LHR (currently YOW and YHZ I believe)? YHZ seems to be combining with YYT this winter so that may be the end of the A319 in LHR (sad) but I wonder what their plan is for next summer... 737 MAX for the Atlantic provinces? A 788 for YOW?

....Allotting for growth, AC, including Rouge could realistically have a fleet of ~75 787's in a decade's time. That is impressive for a country of 37 million.[/quote]
In a decade, Canada is going to have over 40 million people...

AA100 wrote:

On the topic of LHR - what is AC's plan with the 767 routes into LHR (currently YOW and YHZ I believe)? YHZ seems to be combining with YYT this winter so that may be the end of the A319 in LHR (sad) but I wonder what their plan is for next summer... 737 MAX for the Atlantic provinces? A 788 for YOW?

AC will still have 5 B767s left in the fleet by Dec 31, 2018. I expect YOW-LHR/FRA, YHZ-LHR and YYC-NRT to remain B767 until they are fully retired. Once that happens, the obvious replacement for all these routes is the B788.

AA100 wrote:

Can someone clarify the LHR expansion from YVR? I thought AC had previously expanded LHR to double daily or was that only seasonal or already reduced?

The second daily YVR-LHR is a resumption of service from two summers ago.

When AC axed YEG-LHR, they intially move the slot to YYC. That didn't work out as planned, so last year, they switched the route to YVR-LHR. That got canceled for this summer, when they started 3x weekly on YVR-LGW. Now, they are recommiting to a second daily summer seasonal YVR-LHR. My gut feeling is that the 3x weekly YVR-LGW will revert back to YYZ, making the route daily again, in order to better compete with the upcoming BA LGW-YYZ.

I would have appreciated YVR-FCO as well during the summer.
Anyway good to see AC keeps expanding to Europe from Canadian Pacific Coast (ZRH, CDG, DUB, LGW, FRA in recent times)

dassal wrote:

....Allotting for growth, AC, including Rouge could realistically have a fleet of ~75 787's in a decade's time. That is impressive for a country of 37 million.

In a decade, Canada is going to have over 40 million people...[/quote]

Leave it to someone on this site to find an irrelevant piece of information to refute someone on just so they can say someone is wrong. You are what is wrong with this site. Congratulations.

jimbo737 wrote:

jmt18325 wrote:

jimbo737 wrote:

Like Norwegian, they have to put all that iron somewhere. .

Because they're making money at it. Air Canada will have only 5 767s left at mainline within 16 months.

Not much. Have you checked their margins recently compared to what's been going on in the US?


Flooding the market with capacity has reduced margins of all airlines based in Canada to a fraction of what US carriers are generating, even in an era of cheap fuel.

I'm not sure what the end game is. In the late 90's, AC's capacity surge was designed to drive Canadian out of business. Canadian had no balance sheet, marginally lower costs and were easy pickings, esp as WS was doing most of the dirty work in Western Canada.

Transat is weak, but holding its own with marginal profitability. WS hasn't lost money in a quarter for 10 years or more, and that was only as a result of writing off the -200 fleet 5 years earlier than expected and has unit costs 30% below AC's when adjusted for an identical 1,000 mile stage length.

Fuel will likely be cheap for at least a few more years but after that?

Margins? for a country being the second biggest land mass on earth with 34 million people living within 200 km of the US border, with a 100 times more population and the pressure on pricing in regards to the CAD and expenses all based on US funds, I think that they are doing pretty well!

Its not called flooding the market, its responding to the demand! And on the service, I say bring it on! More US pax are flying with AC, for greater connections, fares and again better service.

About this game! Canadian wasted their little money and energy sleeping with American Airlines for a 25% investment, only to sucked dry as they only cared about the YVR gateway to Asia. Their business plan was always reactive instead of being proactive. The merger of 5 airlines wasn't an easy process either for the time. Also Canadian had inherited from Wardair the flying right to LGW and ORL which was on the Air Canada turf. Its not called driving them out of business, its called competing.

WS was new, had a great business plan and took advantage of that fact. Plus they needed to compete and they've succeeded.

Transat is doing fine within their category. A lower cost structure doesn't always translate in a greater bottom line, if you are struggling with issues on IROPS and being upfront about direct flight VS non stop. Also, Rouge is pressuring them and Air Canada Vacations has done more than expected.

I am glad to see AC expending and offering more possibilities to passengers. Sure they are not perfect but for a legacy carrier they sure have evolved within and comparing to others.

Cheers! and happy flying!

Thenoflyzone wrote:

AA100 wrote:

On the topic of LHR - what is AC's plan with the 767 routes into LHR (currently YOW and YHZ I believe)? YHZ seems to be combining with YYT this winter so that may be the end of the A319 in LHR (sad) but I wonder what their plan is for next summer... 737 MAX for the Atlantic provinces? A 788 for YOW?

AC will still have 5 B767s left in the fleet by Dec 31, 2018. I expect YOW-LHR/FRA, YHZ-LHR and YYC-NRT to remain B767 until they are fully retired. Once that happens, the obvious replacement for all these routes is the B788.

I think we will see YHZ-LHR go to the 737 MAX and potentially even see YHZ-FRA return as a 737 MAX route.

Don't know if YOW-LHR/FRA would be too far for a similar remedy. The 737 MAX will definitely change some things up in the next little while.

On another note back on topic, the YVR-ZRH route is interesting because the demand precipitating this route is inbound rather than YVR outbound. This is likely similar to why YVR-DUB/KIX/NGO routes were launched. It's not often people discuss which routes might be viable from an inbound perpespective.

I wonder what else is flying under the radar in this regard.

jmt18325 wrote:

jimbo737 wrote:

Like Norwegian, they have to put all that iron somewhere. .

Because they're making money at it. Air Canada will have only 5 767s left at mainline within 16 months.

I'll be shocked if that truly does end up being the case given the huge international expansion AC have undertaken since the 787 came online. They need 4 frames alone (in summer) just to operate YOW/YHZ-LHR, YOW-FRA and YHZ/YOW-YYZ. Yes in winter YHZ-LHR might get MAXed, but it'll always need a widebody in summer. Remember the 787 was supposed to be the 1-for-1 763 replacement on existing routes, but that's only happened in a few instances like YYC-NRT for example. The 787s have been like 80% dedicated to network growth as opposed to fleet replacements.

SuperTwin wrote:

Thenoflyzone wrote:

AA100 wrote:

On the topic of LHR - what is AC's plan with the 767 routes into LHR (currently YOW and YHZ I believe)? YHZ seems to be combining with YYT this winter so that may be the end of the A319 in LHR (sad) but I wonder what their plan is for next summer... 737 MAX for the Atlantic provinces? A 788 for YOW?

AC will still have 5 B767s left in the fleet by Dec 31, 2018. I expect YOW-LHR/FRA, YHZ-LHR and YYC-NRT to remain B767 until they are fully retired. Once that happens, the obvious replacement for all these routes is the B788.

I think we will see YHZ-LHR go to the 737 MAX and potentially even see YHZ-FRA return as a 737 MAX route.

Don't know if YOW-LHR/FRA would be too far for a similar remedy. The 737 MAX will definitely change some things up in the next little while.

On another note back on topic, the YVR-ZRH route is interesting because the demand precipitating this route is inbound rather than YVR outbound. This is likely similar to why YVR-DUB/KIX/NGO routes were launched. It's not often people discuss which routes might be viable from an inbound perpespective.

I wonder what else is flying under the radar in this regard.

YOW-LHR/FRA will be within MAX range. I really hope the MAX will return YOW-FRA to a year-round route. However YOW-LHR year-round & YOW-FRA has too much J demand in summer to not warrant a 763 thanks to government traffic. Not to mention with loads in the mid-80s on a 763 in summer on all existing YOW/YHZ-transatlantic routes, MAXing them would mean you're leaving behind a lot of cargo & pax.

As for YHZ-FRA on a MAX. I dunno given Condor fly YHZ-FRA 3 weekly in summer. I can't see YHZ-FRA being a viable route in winter.

No doubt YYT-LHR will get the MAX once the 319s are gone...the YYT 763 stop twice weekly on LHR-YHZ this winter I personally think is a temporary stop-gap measure and won't be a long-term thing.

Back to the topic at hand, YVR, just like YYZ and YUL, continue to boom thanks to enormous amounts of new capacity added...if only YOW were even given a few crumbs sigh! However, I am optimistic YOW will get its turn with the MAX and CS3. YOW-DUB/GLA for example are within CS3 range and YOW-CDG is within MAX range.

ahj2000 wrote:

Air Canada has not ceased to amaze me for several years now. I know that Canadians travel abroad more than Americans, but the sheer amount of international routes from Canada is amazing.

And I am sure AC also connects a good number of pax from the U.S. and Mexico to Europe (at YYZ and YUL), and to Asia (at YVR). AC frequently earns awards for being North America's best carrier. That, their Star Alliance membership, and individual alliances with other carriers, probably bolsters their appeal as a connecting carrier. By way of example, while doing a recent search for MEX-DEL-MEX tickets, AC was more or less the same price as AF/KL in Y, but cheaper in J. A flight via YYZ to DEL from many points in the U.S. and Mexico is more time-efficient than via Europe. Add to that the more attractive price, and it looks like the better option for that particular itinerary.

VCEflyboy wrote:

the AC 787 Y class is really infamous. It is a fixture on the YVR to YYZ route and it's unbearable on such a medium haul flight. Can't imagine doing 10 hours in agony.

Why is that? I am not familiar with AC's newest long-haul J product.

Great news from AC for YVR and it's long-haul connectivity.

As others have mentioned, the promise of the 787 has truly been realized by Air Canada and YVR must be one of the cities/airports most directly benefiting from deployment of the aircraft on long-thin route proving. I'm not convinced that all of the routes will be successful, but they're making a go of it and that's very encouraging.

As for the comfort in Y of the 787, I flew YVR-BNE-YVR on an AC 788 in Y and it was fine. In recent years I have done the North American-Australian/North America-Asia-Australia circuit in 747s, A380s, 777s, and 787s, all in Y (unfortunately), and the 787 compares very favorably. The enhanced humidity/lower cabin pressure really is noticeable and I felt generally less beat-up upon arrival. The big catch is that Air Canada's high density Y product (777 and 787) can be awful in the centre rows because of the irregularity of the seat structure and IFE boxes beneath the seats. I learned that the hard way (avoid the E & F seats!) and won't ever fly in the middle rows again, if I can at all help it.

AC853 wrote:

VCEflyboy wrote:

Great news although the AC 787 Y class is really infamous. It is a fixture on the YVR to YYZ route and it's unbearable on such a medium haul flight. Can't imagine doing 10 hours in agony. Although I'm sure it will help the bottom line.
ZRH will offer plent of connections to southern/Eastern Europe with Swiss.
CDG has decent O&D and right now AF is not winning any popularity contests at least on the European side.

Why are there so many negative comments on the economy seats on the 787? We flew on a 787-9 YYC-LHR-YYC and found it one of the most comfortable 9 hour flight we've taken. The slimline seats had great support and had plenty of leg room for a tall person. Probably the best plane I have flown on so far. Air Canada service was great too.

For 45 years, I have had good service with AC and have been happy with the airline. I don't know why folks have such a hate on for them. Rouge, on the other hand, has some issues with the economy seat and lack of suitable legroom, but the service is good and they try to please.

Really hoping that the YVR connections to South America are restored. I had to go through LAX with Avianca via San Salvador but i wished i could fly direct YVR-LIM like the good old days of CP Air

In 2016, 86,000 pax flew YVR CDG YVR P2P which was a growth of 35% versus 2015 so definitely the right move made by AC to operate this nonstop for the peak high yielding summer period.

YVR ZRH v.v. was 44,000 with a growth of 20% versus 2015.

Very sensible on their part making YVR MEL go year round instead of seasonal.

This is great news.

It seems to me that Air Canada has already had - albeit briefly - a YVR-CDG flight in the 1990s. Am I correct or am I mistaken?

behramjee wrote:

In 2016, 86,000 pax flew YVR CDG YVR P2P which was a growth of 35% versus 2015 so definitely the right move made by AC to operate this nonstop for the peak high yielding summer period.

YVR ZRH v.v. was 44,000 with a growth of 20% versus 2015.

Very sensible on their part making YVR MEL go year round instead of seasonal.

Difference being that AF jumped on the route and went from 3/week to 5/week during peak season vs their original plan and then kept the service running 3/week during the winter as opposed to killing it off for the season. So yeah, if AF can make a go of it, then should be workable for AC.

Keep in mind that the % increase YoY is skewed due to the new AF service and don't buy that the route is growing by such a large margin YoY on its own simply due to interest. YVR-ZRH was sort of the same thing when Edelweiss (SWISS subsidiary) upped frequencies on the route, since they were/are the only ones on the route hence the greater #s of passengers.

Aside from YYZ-GIG (Brazilian economic woes) and YYZ-IST (Gov't coup/crisis), the past couple of years have not seen AC network planning falter much on the international front. That's not to say that gauge & frequency changes and AC vs RV swaps haven't happened, but the destinations that have been added have largely stayed and solidified. Good homework, I guess.

briguychau wrote:

VCEflyboy wrote:

Great news although the AC 787 Y class is really infamous. It is a fixture on the YVR to YYZ route and it's unbearable on such a medium haul flight. Can't imagine doing 10 hours in agony.

To each their own, but I flew 8 hours NRT-YVR on that seat and it was the most comfortable TPAC flight I've had in recent history (more comfortable than CX 77W in my opinion)

Agreed...and I flew YVR-BNE.

Dominion301 wrote:

I'll be shocked if that truly does end up being the case given the huge international expansion AC have undertaken since the 787 came online. They need 4 frames alone (in summer) just to operate YOW/YHZ-LHR, YOW-FRA and YHZ/YOW-YYZ. Yes in winter YHZ-LHR might get MAXed, but it'll always need a widebody in summer. Remember the 787 was supposed to be the 1-for-1 763 replacement on existing routes, but that's only happened in a few instances like YYC-NRT for example. The 787s have been like 80% dedicated to network growth as opposed to fleet replacements.

Apparently, the expansion is mostly coming to a close - though there are some holes in Air Canada's map (YYZ-CAN, YVR-SIN, YVR-AKL [apparently dead], YYZ-MOW, YYZ-DAC, YUL-BEY [DEAD], YYZ-EZE [non stop], YYZ-JNB, YYZ-ACC, YYZ-LOS, YUL-DKR, YYC-CDG, YYC-PEK and others that I probably can't see), but on the other hand, there are also some that weren't talked about that happend (the new ones from YVR and YUL, for example). It's hard to know what to make of it

As of right now though, the fleet plan has 2 767s retiring this fall, and 3 next year (probably next fall).

AC853 wrote:

VCEflyboy wrote:

Great news although the AC 787 Y class is really infamous. It is a fixture on the YVR to YYZ route and it's unbearable on such a medium haul flight. Can't imagine doing 10 hours in agony. Although I'm sure it will help the bottom line.
ZRH will offer plent of connections to southern/Eastern Europe with Swiss.
CDG has decent O&D and right now AF is not winning any popularity contests at least on the European side.

Why are there so many negative comments on the economy seats on the 787? We flew on a 787-9 YYC-LHR-YYC and found it one of the most comfortable 9 hour flight we've taken. The slimline seats had great support and had plenty of leg room for a tall person. Probably the best plane I have flown on so far. Air Canada service was great too.

I agree. The J experience on AC 787 is not bad at all. Better than some of the more glamorous carriers and their similar offerings.

What are the loads like on the 787-8 YVR-EWR route? They sometimes fly the -9 on this route.

Yes J is not bad but Y is definitely high density. Compared to ANA and JAL AC has close to double the Y seats on the 787.