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KarelXWB
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PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:47 pm

Starting from August 2018, PAL plans to launch MNL-NYC with its first 2 A350s. Aircraft will feature 295 seats (3-class cabin). The 6 A350s on order are expected to open a total of 3 new US routes.

hilippine Airlines (PAL) plans to begin a new phase of trans-Pacific expansion in Aug-2018 with the launch of nonstop flights from Manila to New York following delivery of its first two A350s. Manila-New York is expected to be the first of at least four trans-Pacific routes PAL adds by the end of 2019 as part of an ambitious strategy to improve its position in the highly competitive North American market.

PAL has opted for a 295 seat three class configuration for its A350s, providing lie flat business and premium economy products in the North American market for the first time. The airline has six A350s on order, which will be used to launch at least three new US routes.


Article
https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... nto-363464
 
NZ321
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:54 pm

We will see. This airline doesn't have a good rep with frequent flyers and has always opted for budget product. If this marks the start of a step change then this is indeed worth watching. Seems a lot of opportunity for growth for Philippines carriers these days. Be nice to see a slight rebranding to reflect the new focus.
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:20 pm

PAL should consider joining an alliance to help improve connectivity within the U.S.
 
717atOGG
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:28 pm

Any guesses to what the other two destinations would be? I think SEA and ORD are the other likely destinations.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:45 pm

717atOGG wrote:
Any guesses to what the other two destinations would be? I think SEA and ORD are the other likely destinations.


You can throw SAN into the hat as well.
 
airbazar
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:15 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
PAL should consider joining an alliance to help improve connectivity within the U.S.

Or at least a code-share. They could code-share with KE via ICN or HA via HNL.
Although HNL is a bit of a detour I think a PR/HA code-share on the routes MNL-HNL-JFK/LAS could be valuable for both airlines.
It would let HA back into MNL where economics forced them t leave, and allow PR into 2 U.S. markets that are likely to be too low yield for such long non-stop routes.
 
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maortega15
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:17 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
PAL should consider joining an alliance to help improve connectivity within the U.S.

Skyteam and Star Alliance are already saturated with Garuda and Vietnam, Singapore and Thai respectively. They can always join Oneworld, but aside from the "smaller" destinations in the Philippines, CX covers MNL, CEB and KA with CRK pretty well.

Probably, the best thing for them is code-share or a JV.
 
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maortega15
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:19 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
Any guesses to what the other two destinations would be? I think SEA and ORD are the other likely destinations.


You can throw SAN into the hat as well.

And possibly MIA/MCO too. Yes, really! :mrgreen:

A lot of cruise ship traffic to and from.
 
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maortega15
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:20 pm

Does anyone have the numbers for JFK? Curious to know how they're doing with the 77W.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:23 pm

Realistically, let's see how NYC goes first. All the other cities are definitely a reach.
 
astuteman
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:26 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Starting from August 2018, PAL plans to launch MNL-NYC with its first 2 A350s. Aircraft will feature 295 seats (3-class cabin). The 6 A350s on order are expected to open a total of 3 new US routes.

hilippine Airlines (PAL) plans to begin a new phase of trans-Pacific expansion in Aug-2018 with the launch of nonstop flights from Manila to New York following delivery of its first two A350s. Manila-New York is expected to be the first of at least four trans-Pacific routes PAL adds by the end of 2019 as part of an ambitious strategy to improve its position in the highly competitive North American market.

PAL has opted for a 295 seat three class configuration for its A350s, providing lie flat business and premium economy products in the North American market for the first time. The airline has six A350s on order, which will be used to launch at least three new US routes.


Article
https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... nto-363464


7 400Nm? Another long flight coming into being.

Rgds
 
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zeke
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:29 pm

astuteman wrote:
7 400Nm? Another long flight coming into being.


Should be fairly quick going over, might top 750 kts ground speed near Japan in winter, but a drag coming back.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:16 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Starting from August 2018, PAL plans to launch MNL-NYC with its first 2 A350s. Aircraft will feature 295 seats (3-class cabin). The 6 A350s on order are expected to open a total of 3 new US routes.

So a year from now...which means there could be PR XWB fuse sections at TLS soon. I was expecting to see the A359s deployed to LAX and SFO (or LHR) at first before flying MNL-JFK direct. I suppose PR is very eager to launch this nonstop service to catch the holiday rush.

717atOGG wrote:
Any guesses to what the other two destinations would be? I think SEA and ORD are the other likely destinations.

Those other two are often mentioned. Although I believe that the A338 would be a better fit for SEA. :cheerful:

Image

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=MNL-JFK%2F ... =wls&DU=nm


Coronado990 wrote:
You can throw SAN into the hat as well.

Never say die..... :D I hope PR could resume CEB-LAX. :crossfingers:


maortega15 wrote:
And possibly MIA/MCO too. Yes, really!

That's exhaustingly long. They're better off connecting at SEA (if ever). :tired:


astuteman wrote:
7 400Nm? Another long flight coming into being.

Shorter still than JFK-SIN.


izbtmnhd wrote:
Realistically, let's see how NYC goes first. All the other cities are definitely a reach.

I'm surprised that they will do YYZ nonstop with the 77W. I suspect that later A359 deliveries would be alternating at LAX or SFO during off-peak season. Then maybe fly to Europe afterwards.
 
727200
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:23 pm

What about SFO or LAX? Lots of locals in both areas. Regardless, lets see how long the flights last.
 
astuteman
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:27 pm

Devilfish wrote:
astuteman wrote:
7 400Nm? Another long flight coming into being.

Shorter still than JFK-SIN.


True. Longer than SFO-SIN though :)

Rgds
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:27 pm

astuteman wrote:

7 400Nm? Another long flight coming into being.



ESAD range would be slightly more.

Note that PAL will operate the A350 at 278t MTOW.
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:41 pm

maortega15 wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
Any guesses to what the other two destinations would be? I think SEA and ORD are the other likely destinations.


You can throw SAN into the hat as well.

And possibly MIA/MCO too. Yes, really! :mrgreen:

A lot of cruise ship traffic to and from.


??? how big of a market is there for Filipinos flying to the U.S. to go on a cruise out of Florida?
 
airbazar
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:56 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:
maortega15 wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:

You can throw SAN into the hat as well.

And possibly MIA/MCO too. Yes, really! :mrgreen:

A lot of cruise ship traffic to and from.


??? how big of a market is there for Filipinos flying to the U.S. to go on a cruise out of Florida?

It's not the cruise passengers. It's the ship crews. Filipinos make up a large portion of the crews onboard many cruise and container ships.
https://story.californiasunday.com/below-deck
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:08 pm

airbazar wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
maortega15 wrote:
And possibly MIA/MCO too. Yes, really! :mrgreen:

A lot of cruise ship traffic to and from.


??? how big of a market is there for Filipinos flying to the U.S. to go on a cruise out of Florida?

It's not the cruise passengers. It's the ship crews. Filipinos make up a large portion of the crews onboard many cruise and container ships.
https://story.californiasunday.com/below-deck


Thanks. Learned something new today.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:18 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
astuteman wrote:

7 400Nm? Another long flight coming into being.



ESAD range would be slightly more.

Note that PAL will operate the A350 at 278t MTOW.


I was thinking they would be inline for the 280t variant, guess they don't wanna wait.
 
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TedToToe
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:31 pm

The Filipinos getting on and off cruise ships in Florida are far more likely to be crew than passengers, which will be much lower yielding for the airlines. I cannot see MIA or MCO working.
 
cityairline
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:33 pm

Finally the A350-era of Philippine Airlines is slowly begining! Very interesting to find out about the 295-seat configuration. This shows that PAL is actually trying become a little bit more premium than they've been so far. The A350s with most number of seats so far is ET and JJ with 348 seats. But I'm also glad they realize the low yield nature of MNL and keep staying away from First Class, which would only be empty thus loosing out on more Y, Y+ (and C passengers).

As for the other new routes, my bet has always been ORD, SEA and SAN. Other markets are too small to receive PAL service.


727200 wrote:
What about SFO or LAX? Lots of locals in both areas. Regardless, lets see how long the flights last.

What do you mean?
MNL-LAX is already served twice daily nonstop with the 77W, while MNL-SFO is already served daily with the same aircraft (even 10 weekly during peak).

/Alex
 
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SANFan
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:41 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
Any guesses to what the other two destinations would be? I think SEA and ORD are the other likely destinations.


You can throw SAN into the hat as well.

San Diego does have the unique distinction (I think it's unique) of having previously been applied for by PR (on Jan 10, 2008) -- MNL-YVR-SAN. I remember that SEA was also talked about back in 2007 as a possible destination for PR but to the best of my knowledge, was never actually applied for. Again, I believe SAN was the only city at that time that was actually applied for.

Very unfortunately, just a few days later, the FAA downgraded the Philippines to a cat II safety rating. AFAIK, the route application by PR to the DOT was never approved and perhaps is still pending?!

Here's an excerpt from a news article out of the Philippines in 2008:

15 January 2008
PAL still to fly to US despite Category 2

Philippine Airlines will continue to fly to the US, although under certain restrictions, despite the downgrading of the country to a Category 2 rating by the US Federal Aviation Authority (FAA).

PAL President Jaime Bautista said: “Being the only Philippine carrier to fly to the US, we have a responsibility to our passengers to maintain our US operations in spite of the Category 2 rating.” ...

The PAL President also expressed concern on the negative effect of Category 2 to PAL’s plans to open service to San Diego, Chicago, New York and Saipan.


Of course I have no idea how things stand now, 9 years later, but I'm just saying that in 2008, PR wanted to serve SAN badly enough that they applied to the DOT for the authority to do so.

I definitely second the hat-placement proposed of SAN by my friend, Coronado990.

bb
 
LurveBus
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:51 pm

TedToToe wrote:
The Filipinos getting on and off cruise ships in Florida are far more likely to be crew than passengers, which will be much lower yielding for the airlines. I cannot see MIA or MCO working.


The volume, though, is still quite large and MIA was found to be one of the larger unserved markets from MNL.

KLM keeps its daily one-stop service to MNL alive on seafarer traffic between MNl and the ports of Rotterdam and Antwerp. They have a specialised travel agency in Manila whose sole purpose is to funnel seafarers onto klm flights.

Now, a nonstop flight to MIA doesn't seem feasible with current equipment, however, once JFK goes nonstop, the current JFK tag-on to yvr isn't likely to last. They can extend the flights to MIA instead, and that would open up a whole new market, as MIA doesn't even have nonstop yvr service, last I checked.
 
amadorE175
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:00 pm

cityairline wrote:
Finally the A350-era of Philippine Airlines is slowly begining! Very interesting to find out about the 295-seat configuration. This shows that PAL is actually trying become a little bit more premium than they've been so far. The A350s with most number of seats so far is ET and JJ with 348 seats. But I'm also glad they realize the low yield nature of MNL and keep staying away from First Class, which would only be empty thus loosing out on more Y, Y+ (and C passengers).

As for the other new routes, my bet has always been ORD, SEA and SAN. Other markets are too small to receive PAL service.


I would bet they place the same Vantage XL seats on the A350 as they're putting into the A330 refits now. Perhaps with new finishes, though, since they'll have more time to customize some of the industrial design than they did for the A330. That'll be a nice ride for the folks up front.

And like you (and a few others here and the SAN thread), I am betting (hoping) on SAN as one the options. With SAN's curfew, I would think that a midday departure (12:30pm like their second LAX flight) would be their choice. It would probably be better for gate scheduling too since the evenings may see the FIS gates packed with BA, LF, and some of the other arrivals from Latin America.
 
mcogator
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:02 pm

Image

Based on diaspora population, these could potentially be new destinations. LAS looks almost like a sure thing, with the local population, service industry, and gambling.

LAS
SEA
SDG
ORD
IAH
MCO


2010 Numbers
California 1,474,707[126]
Hawaii 342,095[127]
Illinois 139,090[128]
Texas 137,713[129]
Washington 137,083[130]
New Jersey 126,793[131]
New York 126,129[132]
Nevada 123,891[133]
Florida 122,691[134]
Virginia 90,493[135]
United States United States 3,416,840[3]
 
NichCage
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:22 pm

Why is MNL-JFK out of range for a 77W? If airlines like Cathay Pacific can fly a 77W from HKG to JFK (which seems a little bit farther than MNL-JFK) then it seems possible.
 
Mumrik
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:06 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
PAL should consider joining an alliance to help improve connectivity within the U.S.


Wasn't there some rumors some years ago of PAL joining OneWorld? I personally see OneWorld as the best suited for PAL of the three big alliances.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:29 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
PAL should consider joining an alliance to help improve connectivity within the U.S.

What'd be the point? What can they give an alliance that the alliance doesn't already have easy access to?

Might be better just to codeshare, from a cost/benefit basis.


Mumrik wrote:
I personally see OneWorld as the best suited for PAL of the three big alliances.

Great for PR, but what do they in turn bring to OneWorld?


NichCage wrote:
Why is MNL-JFK out of range for a 77W? If airlines like Cathay Pacific can fly a 77W from HKG to JFK (which seems a little bit farther than MNL-JFK)

Why guess, when it's easy to just look it up?

MNL-JFK is 500mi longer than from HKG, and that's just Great Circle.
For a route that's already at the edge of the 77W's performance, that's a significant difference.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
patineta89
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:32 pm

LAS should be a safe bet.
It didn't work out well before with their A340s but with the right adjustments in carrier image and flight schedule it should work perfectly.
The huge Filipino population here would surely prefer a direct flight over the ICN, PEK stopover.
Also a great addition to LAS who needs more international carriers...
 
smi0006
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:52 pm

NZ321 wrote:
We will see. This airline doesn't have a good rep with frequent flyers and has always opted for budget product. If this marks the start of a step change then this is indeed worth watching. Seems a lot of opportunity for growth for Philippines carriers these days. Be nice to see a slight rebranding to reflect the new focus.


Agreed, time for a rebrand.

With new seats, aircrafts and routes it's time to get rid of the old brand associated with - beautiful smiles, but ancient IB aircraft that always broke down, poor disrupt handling and poor catering.

PR has enormous potential, but they need seize this moment with a clear strategy and agenda they stick change direction- with a strong brand.
 
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maortega15
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:58 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Mumrik wrote:
I personally see OneWorld as the best suited for PAL of the three big alliances.

Great for PR, but what do they in turn bring to OneWorld?

Aside from "interior" destinations in the Philippines, nothing really that CX doesn't cover as they're the largest foreign carrier in the Philippines.
 
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maortega15
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:00 pm

amadorE175 wrote:
cityairline wrote:
I would bet they place the same Vantage XL seats on the A350 as they're putting into the A330 refits now. Perhaps with new finishes, though, since they'll have more time to customize some of the industrial design than they did for the A330. That'll be a nice ride for the folks up front.

I would really prefer a reverse herringbone layout. I find the Vantage XL seats a tad small.

Weren't they looking into a reverse herringbone layout before?
 
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RL777
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:56 pm

I wonder what this will mean for their current one stop through YVR, from what I've heard that flight has been doing well.
 
CHI2DFW
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:30 am

We have: IAH, LAS, MCO, MIA, ORD, SAN, and SEA represented.

How long until we hear from: AUS, BOS, BNA, CLE, CMH, CVG, DFW, DTW, IND, MCI, PHX, SJC, and STL?
 
Freshside3
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:50 am

airbazar wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
maortega15 wrote:
And possibly MIA/MCO too. Yes, really! :mrgreen:

A lot of cruise ship traffic to and from.


??? how big of a market is there for Filipinos flying to the U.S. to go on a cruise out of Florida?

It's not the cruise passengers. It's the ship crews. Filipinos make up a large portion of the crews onboard many cruise and container ships.
https://story.californiasunday.com/below-deck

Lots of shipping personnel in SEA, as well. Both on freighters, and on the Canada-Alaska cruise ships.
 
Freshside3
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:53 am

mcogator wrote:
Image

Based on diaspora population, these could potentially be new destinations. LAS looks almost like a sure thing, with the local population, service industry, and gambling.

LAS
SEA
SDG
ORD
IAH
MCO


2010 Numbers
California 1,474,707[126]
Hawaii 342,095[127]
Illinois 139,090[128]
Texas 137,713[129]
Washington 137,083[130]
New Jersey 126,793[131]
New York 126,129[132]
Nevada 123,891[133]
Florida 122,691[134]
Virginia 90,493[135]
United States United States 3,416,840[3]


A good chunk of the Virginia Filipino population is in ORF. So a partner that can connect ORF to the gateway would be ideal.
 
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SANFan
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:37 am

mcogator wrote:
Image

Based on diaspora population, these could potentially be new destinations. LAS looks almost like a sure thing, with the local population, service industry, and gambling.

LAS
SEA
SDG
ORD
IAH
MCO


What's that dark smudge in the southwest-most corner of California and the U.S.? Oh yeah, that's San Diego County, the home of SAN! Hmmm, looks like there's a fairly large Filipino population there....
amadorE175 wrote:
cityairline wrote:
As for the other new routes, my bet has always been ORD, SEA and SAN. Other markets are too small to receive PAL service.


And like you (and a few others here and the SAN thread), I am betting (hoping) on SAN as one the options. With SAN's curfew, I would think that a midday departure (12:30pm like their second LAX flight) would be their choice. It would probably be better for gate scheduling too since the evenings may see the FIS gates packed with BA, LF, and some of the other arrivals from Latin America.

Don't forget, by summer of 2019 SAN will have 6 new FIS-capable gates, allowing as many as 4 simultaneous wide-body int'l arrivals! There will be plenty of room for PAL if they decide to add SAN to their routemap. The potential for cx like PR is exactly why the new FIS facilities are being constructed as we speak!

bb
 
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Devilfish
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:14 pm

SANFan wrote:
Don't forget, by summer of 2019 SAN will have 6 new FIS-capable gates, allowing as many as 4 simultaneous wide-body int'l arrivals! There will be plenty of room for PAL if they decide to add SAN to their routemap. The potential for cx like PR is exactly why the new FIS facilities are being constructed as we speak!

Unfortunately, SAN is still not mentioned in Part 3 of CAPA's analysis of PR's NA expansion.....

http://centreforaviation.com/insights/a ... ork-363465

Quote:
"Philippine Airlines is planning to resume services from Cebu to Los Angeles and launch at least one new US destination by the end of 2019 as part of an ambitious expansion plan for the North American market. PAL’s trans-Pacific capacity, which has already increased by nearly 30% over the past year, should expand by approximately another 50% as Manila to New York and Toronto are upgraded to nonstop, Cebu-Los Angeles is resumed, and Chicago, Houston or Seattle is launched.

A new fleet of six A350-900s will drive the growth and be used on all the new US routes. The A350 enables PAL to improve its business class seat and introduce premium economy on long haul routes.

However, PAL will need to commit to 777 retrofits to provide a consistent product and improve its position in the increasingly competitive Southeast Asia-North America market. PAL also needs to secure a US airline partner if it is to succeed at expanding in a market already suffering from overcapacity."



Image

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=CEB-LAX,+M ... /ORD&DU=nm


But who knows...if one or two of the prospective cities do not push through and the overcapacity situation at the airline persists -- SAN could find itself hosting PR's A350. :o
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 1185
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:24 pm

mcogator wrote:
Image

Based on diaspora population, these could potentially be new destinations. LAS looks almost like a sure thing, with the local population, service industry, and gambling.

LAS
SEA
SDG
ORD
IAH
MCO


2010 Numbers
California 1,474,707[126]
Hawaii 342,095[127]
Illinois 139,090[128]
Texas 137,713[129]
Washington 137,083[130]
New Jersey 126,793[131]
New York 126,129[132]
Nevada 123,891[133]
Florida 122,691[134]
Virginia 90,493[135]
United States United States 3,416,840[3]


Looking at that map, if you're considering MCO and IAH then I'd think IAD would be on the list as well possibly ahead of both markets due to shorter stage length. I bet the vast majority of the 90,000 Filipino Virginians are in the DC area and it looks like there is a fair amount on the Maryland side as well.
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:28 pm

TedToToe wrote:
The Filipinos getting on and off cruise ships in Florida are far more likely to be crew than passengers, which will be much lower yielding for the airlines. I cannot see MIA or MCO working.

I would think it's a corporate contract between the cruise company and the airline, like any other.

LAX772LR wrote:
Why guess, when it's easy to just look it up?

MNL-JFK is 500mi longer than from HKG, and that's just Great Circle.
For a route that's already at the edge of the 77W's performance, that's a significant difference.

Plus PR's 77Ws are high density configs.

SANFan wrote:
Don't forget, by summer of 2019 SAN will have 6 new FIS-capable gates, allowing as many as 4 simultaneous wide-body int'l arrivals! There will be plenty of room for PAL if they decide to add SAN to their routemap. The potential for cx like PR is exactly why the new FIS facilities are being constructed as we speak!

And how exactly do you plan on getting an A350 fully loaded for a 15 hr flight, off the ground from a 9,400ft runway? :)
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:01 pm

Why should PR consider an alliance, to gain better U.S. access?

I understand the notion well, one 'legacy' carrier, partnering with another 'legacy' carrier - in the conventional form of an alliance.

That said, based on PR's seat map, changes in recent structure, and perhaps face of forward growth - a better partner for said growth, would be, a lower costing option. As is, in that category - we have B6, AS, and WN - each presenting PR with specific challenges and advantages, but almost all better able to serve PR's needs (of codeshares, and interlining - so that passengers almost anywhere can pick up onto their flights), and saves it from additional costs (such as membership dues, the costs of entering, and ths costs of aligning with alliance standards; all which take years, and are predicated on advancing to a "JV/ATI" agreement that happens years into the future). PR will be recieving those planes soon, and flying ULHR with them - thus theses routes are likely to cost them higher than most others in the network. It does not mean that it will not add to, or as part of a larger context, and/or mature in future to become; profitable, but I can understand that the airline would want to maximize the benefits (not share as much on costs, and not incur any major ones at this point for the short-mid term) for themselves. If so, then put the issues regarding costs, onto the code-share agreement, as essentially this be future revenue that (save for finding a partner) will not occur anyway.

So, backing to the contenders;
AS; Perhaps the best partner of the class, an established history of code-sharing with international partners (the true CodeShare Queen), has hubs as SEA, SFO, LAX, and bonus; ANC (yup, Pinoy Crewman end up, up here, can now fly home via HNL, with some code-share/interlining right-timing). This could also assist in 'right' yielding (and/or cannibalizing) their NYC performance, and with the 'investment' of VX, AS now has a decent level of Trans-Con capability. Thus, either high-yeidling, and/or time sensitive passengers/cargo will go non-stop with PR and those that are more price sensitive - can 'hop' to the west coast via AS and connect to the options of LAX, SFO, SEA, or even LAS - helping to better 'plug' the holes in demand. It many not bode well for PR's NYC performance (if costs - namely fuel - rises, or if a competitor enters, a la an AirAsiaX type, or even perhaps Cebu Pacific) - but it would certainly benefit their other cities much more.
B6: The dark horse, but also with a proven record of keeping 'transitioning' carriers happy (case in point, EI - and how well that partnership fit, or currently - how EK enjoys their partnership as well...). B6 though would increase the pressures upon the performance of the NYC route (see issues listed above with the AS example, however intensify them as Mint's offerings are superb, and perhaps even better than PR's in some fashions). It is limited in what it can offer on the West Coast, but will likely grow to accommodate what it can. Their strong East Coast focus, though, and the relative lessened ability to 'connect' on the West Coast vs the East Coast - limits their offerings and capabilities to PR's needs. However, if B6 did concern itself with West Coast growth - this would be a fantastic add of a partner.
WN; essentially strong everwhere, but with such limited exposure to international flying - and further, no experience with code-sharing. When they do come into the capability, though - they will be a fantastic addition.
 
717atOGG
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:04 pm

airbazar wrote:
TedToToe wrote:
The Filipinos getting on and off cruise ships in Florida are far more likely to be crew than passengers, which will be much lower yielding for the airlines. I cannot see MIA or MCO working.

I would think it's a corporate contract between the cruise company and the airline, like any other.

LAX772LR wrote:
Why guess, when it's easy to just look it up?

MNL-JFK is 500mi longer than from HKG, and that's just Great Circle.
For a route that's already at the edge of the 77W's performance, that's a significant difference.

Plus PR's 77Ws are high density configs.

SANFan wrote:
Don't forget, by summer of 2019 SAN will have 6 new FIS-capable gates, allowing as many as 4 simultaneous wide-body int'l arrivals! There will be plenty of room for PAL if they decide to add SAN to their routemap. The potential for cx like PR is exactly why the new FIS facilities are being constructed as we speak!

And how exactly do you plan on getting an A350 fully loaded for a 15 hr flight, off the ground from a 9,400ft runway? :)

The BA 744 can get out of SAN just fine for a flight to LHR, and EK's 77L does a flight of similar distance out of FLL, without payload restrictions IIRC. I think there wouldn't be issues with PAL and SAN.
 
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LAXdude1023
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:43 pm

patineta89 wrote:
LAS should be a safe bet.
It didn't work out well before with their A340s but with the right adjustments in carrier image and flight schedule it should work perfectly.
The huge Filipino population here would surely prefer a direct flight over the ICN, PEK stopover.
Also a great addition to LAS who needs more international carriers...


They used to fly to LAS but switched it in favor of YYZ.
 
airbazar
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:00 pm

717atOGG wrote:
The BA 744 can get out of SAN just fine for a flight to LHR, and EK's 77L does a flight of similar distance out of FLL, without payload restrictions IIRC. I think there wouldn't be issues with PAL and SAN.

You might be right. Check out page 151 of the ACAP:
http://www.aircraft.airbus.com/fileadmi ... -Jun16.pdf
It looks to be right on the edge but doable.
As for those other examples that you provided, those routes at 11hrs and 14hrs respectively, and flying with a tail wind, do not push the limits of the ac which leads me to believe that they are nowhere near MTOW.
 
LondonCity
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Re: PAl outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:41 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
PAL should consider joining an alliance to help improve connectivity within the U.S.


But would any alliance want PAL ? It's rather unstable and doesn't know what it wants.
 
Flexbird
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:46 pm

Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 pm

They better refresh the seats of the 777-300ER they are going to use for the MNL-YYZ non-stop. The new J-class in their A330 is decent but IIRC the 777 interiors are still the old Lufthansa J-class angled lie-flat.
 
astuteman
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:30 pm

airbazar wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
The BA 744 can get out of SAN just fine for a flight to LHR, and EK's 77L does a flight of similar distance out of FLL, without payload restrictions IIRC. I think there wouldn't be issues with PAL and SAN.

You might be right. Check out page 151 of the ACAP:
http://www.aircraft.airbus.com/fileadmi ... -Jun16.pdf
It looks to be right on the edge but doable.
As for those other examples that you provided, those routes at 11hrs and 14hrs respectively, and flying with a tail wind, do not push the limits of the ac which leads me to believe that they are nowhere near MTOW.


2 750m or 9 000ft at a 275t MTOW and at ISA+15C and 0ft elevation, according to the chart. Should be ok

Rgds
 
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Coronado990
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:12 am

Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:57 pm

astuteman wrote:
airbazar wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
The BA 744 can get out of SAN just fine for a flight to LHR, and EK's 77L does a flight of similar distance out of FLL, without payload restrictions IIRC. I think there wouldn't be issues with PAL and SAN.

You might be right. Check out page 151 of the ACAP:
http://www.aircraft.airbus.com/fileadmi ... -Jun16.pdf
It looks to be right on the edge but doable.
As for those other examples that you provided, those routes at 11hrs and 14hrs respectively, and flying with a tail wind, do not push the limits of the ac which leads me to believe that they are nowhere near MTOW.


2 750m or 9 000ft at a 275t MTOW and at ISA+15C and 0ft elevation, according to the chart. Should be ok

Rgds


Quads at KSAN can use the original 8700 feet of runway departing RWY 27, twins less based on engine out performance and terrain issues taking-off over Point Loma so you can't go by the full 9400 feet.

If PAL did come to SAN, it would probably be via YVR or SEA. If they could combine SAN and LAS then I could see a MNL-SAN-LAS-MNL triangle flight and use the longer runway at LAS to launch the non-stop back to MNL. Would probably have to be a night departure out of LAS.
 
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javier787
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Re: PAL outlines A350 strategy, to launch MNL-NYC

Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:29 pm

CHI2DFW wrote:
We have: IAH, LAS, MCO, MIA, ORD, SAN, and SEA represented.

How long until we hear from: AUS, BOS, BNA, CLE, CMH, CVG, DFW, DTW, IND, MCI, PHX, SJC, and STL?

SJC is repetitive, and the rest that you added are better off served through a code-share with someone as opposed to using PAL metal.

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