DL adds JFK - LOS

bfitzflyer · Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:48 am

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... arch-2018/

First add by DL to Africa in quite a while.

SpaceshipDC10 · Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:57 am

Didn't they previously flew there already?

bfitzflyer · Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:03 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Didn't they previously flew there already?

I don't have any link, but my memory seems to think they did. From the link above this is an add to the ATL service currently.

commavia · Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:05 pm

Interesting add. Seems like a smart move if there's a market there - Delta seems to be the only airline seriously interested in U.S.-Africa, so they can have it all to themselves.

AntonioMartin · Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:23 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Didn't they previously flew there already?

is what I thought too!

lesfalls · Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:29 pm

commavia wrote:
Interesting add. Seems like a smart move if there's a market there - Delta seems to be the only airline seriously interested in U.S.-Africa, so they can have it all to themselves.

AriK used to fly the route (not so long ago)before they were forced to drop it. LOS is quite a big market too with it continuously growing every year thanks to its growth in population.

bfitzflyer · Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:03 pm

Ok with the new routes posting basically they are reducing ATL - LOS and adding JFK - LOS, so operation is basically split.

rukundo · Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:05 pm

I don't have any link, but my memory seems to think they did. From the link above this is an add to the ATL service currently

Delta has operated service from Abuja to US, during a short time. I don't remember that Delta served Lagos, from New York. Flights plannes to start in 2008 ( i m probably wrong), but during 2008-2011 period, Delta scrapped the launching of new services in Africa (Malabo, Luanda, Sal and Nairobi)

DL started to serve Nigieria, in 2007, from Atlanta.

From Accra, Delta had flights to Atlanta. They have now only service to New York.

From early 2000s to mid 2000s, North American Airline linked some West African countries to US.

October 2014:

Speaking in Lagos, Bryan, said: Delta’s flight between Lagos and Atlanta has remained solid, and we have been seeing load factors averaging around 80 per cent. The top U.S. destinations that our customers from Nigeria have been travelling to include Houston, Washington, Los Angeles, Dallas and New York and this year alone we have carried some 100,000 passengers.

”Since our first service to the U.S in 2007, Delta has flown over 770,000 passengers. It’s incredible to think that is equivalent to the population of the city of Abuja.”

http://thenationonlineng.net/why-we-sto ... -airlines/

readytotaxi · Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:09 pm

Seems that they flew in July 2015 from ATL, and the people were not happy with the old aircraft used.

http://saharareporters.com/2015/07/13/n ... old-planes

cvgComair · Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:17 pm

They had planned on starting JFK-LOS, though I am not sure the flight ever took off. Here is DL’s route map from 2009, which was the peak of their Africa service:

panamair · Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:23 pm

cvgComair wrote:
They had planned on starting JFK-LOS, though I am not sure the flight ever took off.

That's correct, they announced JFK-LOS but then pulled it a few months before the start of service. As someone already mentioned upthread, looks like they will be splitting the LOS operation between ATL (4x weekly) and JFK (3x weekly).

ATL-LOS during peak months is currently a daily 763ER but does get reduced to 4-5x weekly during off-peak.

LAXLHR · Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:44 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Seems that they flew in July 2015 from ATL, and the people were not happy with the old aircraft used.

http://saharareporters.com/2015/07/13/n ... old-planes

Wow, that was a read!

I hate to say this, but there is definitely an agenda at play here (need I spell it out). You put the crappiest aircraft on your most profitable route. If it was LHR-JFK (do you think they would try this?). Yes, there is massive competition there vs no competition on LOS-ATL, but is this truly how you treat your highest yielding route? (if that is true) At the very least, schedule less tech prone 767s to LOS. Although, it could be that ONE of the aircraft's scheduled, hates going there.

(look up individual aircraft in many fleets that always go tech on one particular route) I know BA have one with the 777...I forget where that plane hates flying to...hah. Actually, there must be a thread on this topic somewhere on this site?

I'm not sure how to say the following, but I'll just blurt it out. An aircraft IS alive!...

MaverickM11 · Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:48 pm

Is DL able to get its money out of Nigeria regularly? Or at all?

ty97 · Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:51 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Seems that they flew in July 2015 from ATL, and the people were not happy with the old aircraft used.

http://saharareporters.com/2015/07/13/n ... old-planes

Wow, that was a read!

I hate to say this, but there is definitely an agenda at play here (need I spell it out). You put the crappiest aircraft on your most profitable route. If it was LHR-JFK (do you think they would try this?). Yes, there is massive competition there vs no competition on LOS-ATL, but is this truly how you treat your highest yielding route? (if that is true) At the very least, schedule less tech prone 767s to LOS. Although, it could be that ONE of the aircraft's scheduled, hates going there.

I have no idea which 763 is being referred to or how much truth there is to DL having been sending the same issue-ridden aircraft, but should be noted that all three DL JFK-LHR flights are 763s.

behramjee · Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:52 pm

DL are using the A332 (decent on board product) on JFK-LOS-JFK as a B763ER cannot operate it nonstop unless it takes a big payload penalty.

P2P demand between LOS and JFK has grown significantly for the past few years despite the economic crisis in Nigeria which mainly effected IAH corporate travel as JFK is more of a VFR market segment.

Past 3 years travel demand between LOS-JFK-LOS (P2P only) was as follows:

2014 - 72,000 pax
2015 - 94,000 pax
2016 - 115,000 pax

Houston on the other hand was as follows:

2014 - 77,000
2015 - 65,000
2016 - 71,000

TW870 · Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:56 pm

cvgComair thanks so much for posting that map.

That was from the peak of the SID scissor hub plan. Does anyone know exactly which of those routes ever operated? Did the US-SID-SSG ever start? Some routes that are listed on there never went through SID. ROB, for example, went through ACC and continued for a while until the Ebola crisis. ABV operated as well, but I believe it never stopped in SID. I am just curious about which of those blue lines actually came to fruition.

cvgComair · Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:05 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Seems that they flew in July 2015 from ATL, and the people were not happy with the old aircraft used.

http://saharareporters.com/2015/07/13/n ... old-planes

I hate to say this, but there is definitely an agenda at play here (need I spell it out). You put the crappiest aircraft on your most profitable route. If it was LHR-JFK (do you think they would try this?). Yes, there is massive competition there vs no competition on LOS-ATL, but is this truly how you treat your highest yielding route? (if that is true) At the very least, schedule less tech prone 767s to LOS. Although, it could be that ONE of the aircraft's scheduled, hates going there.

I am not so sure I understand this article...it claims the 767 is not used on other TATL routes: "And part of the plea is that they are using old aircraft on this Lagos route, which they don’t use on the transatlantic routes." umm, many of DL's TATL routes are on 767's or even 757's! Obviously the authors of this article do not realize that JFK-DKR is a 757, LOS is actually doing quite well aircraft wise! DL operates many routes on the 757/767 that push their range, but it looks like the fuel problems are on the LOS end. My guess is that there is not enough demand to fill a 777/A333, that is over 80 extra seats!

I also do not believe ATL-LOS is DL's "most profitable route", I would love to see the source for that one. If that route was so profitable, DL would not be the only US carrier flying to Africa. I have a feeling they meant the most profitable in DL's network to Africa, which is not that impressive meaning they only operate 3 routes to Africa.

dcajet · Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:05 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Seems that they flew in July 2015 from ATL, and the people were not happy with the old aircraft used.

http://saharareporters.com/2015/07/13/n ... old-planes

Wow, that was a read!

I hate to say this, but there is definitely an agenda at play here (need I spell it out). You put the crappiest aircraft on your most profitable route. If it was LHR-JFK (do you think they would try this?). Yes, there is massive competition there vs no competition on LOS-ATL, but is this truly how you treat your highest yielding route? (if that is true) At the very least, schedule less tech prone 767s to LOS. Although, it could be that ONE of the aircraft's scheduled, hates going there.

(look up individual aircraft in many fleets that always go tech on one particular route) I know BA have one with the 777...I forget where that plane hates flying to...hah. Actually, there must be a thread on this topic somewhere on this site?

I'm not sure how to say the following, but I'll just blurt it out. An aircraft IS alive!...

The same DL 763ER that go to LOS go to NRT, HND, LAX, SEA, LHR, CDG, MAD, SCL, ZRH, etc. etc. Must have been a slow news day in Nigeria when they wrote that article back in 2015. No agenda. Moving on....

cvgComair · Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:08 pm

TW870 wrote:
cvgComair thanks so much for posting that map.

That was from the peak of the SID scissor hub plan. Does anyone know exactly which of those routes ever operated? Did the US-SID-SSG ever start? Some routes that are listed on there never went through SID. ROB, for example, went through ACC and continued for a while until the Ebola crisis. ABV operated as well, but I believe it never stopped in SID. I am just curious about which of those blue lines actually came to fruition.

I know the routes to Malabo, Nairobi, and Luanda never took off. The flights to Abuja and Monrovia were operated from Accra when they actually launched, and they never launched the SID operation.

Here is the shift of the SID operation to DKR, but this never launched either:

Here is what actually launched by 2010, though Malabo never started:

MIAFLLPBIFlyer · Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:21 pm

Any chance DL brings Abuja back online? This add gives me hope maybe they'll bring that back or some other West African route.

LAXLHR · Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:25 pm

ty97 wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Seems that they flew in July 2015 from ATL, and the people were not happy with the old aircraft used.

http://saharareporters.com/2015/07/13/n ... old-planes

Wow, that was a read!

I hate to say this, but there is definitely an agenda at play here (need I spell it out). You put the crappiest aircraft on your most profitable route. If it was LHR-JFK (do you think they would try this?). Yes, there is massive competition there vs no competition on LOS-ATL, but is this truly how you treat your highest yielding route? (if that is true) At the very least, schedule less tech prone 767s to LOS. Although, it could be that ONE of the aircraft's scheduled, hates going there.

I have no idea which 763 is being referred to or how much truth there is to DL having been sending the same issue-ridden aircraft, but should be noted that all three DL JFK-LHR flights are 763s.

I do not really pay attention to DL that much, but I believe they still have dozens of 763s...some old/ancient, some not so old. I'm sure the best 763's are placed on "premium" routes and older crappy ones are routed on the multi city loop through less "desirable" cities.

jbs2886 · Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:30 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
ty97 wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:

Wow, that was a read!

I hate to say this, but there is definitely an agenda at play here (need I spell it out). You put the crappiest aircraft on your most profitable route. If it was LHR-JFK (do you think they would try this?). Yes, there is massive competition there vs no competition on LOS-ATL, but is this truly how you treat your highest yielding route? (if that is true) At the very least, schedule less tech prone 767s to LOS. Although, it could be that ONE of the aircraft's scheduled, hates going there.

I have no idea which 763 is being referred to or how much truth there is to DL having been sending the same issue-ridden aircraft, but should be noted that all three DL JFK-LHR flights are 763s.

I do not really pay attention to DL that much, but I believe they still have dozens of 763s...some old/ancient, some not so old. I'm sure the best 763's are placed on "premium" routes and older crappy ones are routed on the multi city loop through less "desirable" cities.

No. All of DLs 763s are refurbished. Just because they are "old" doesn't mean they are "crappy." Do some research instead of posting this nonsense.

LAXLHR · Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:32 pm

cvgComair wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Seems that they flew in July 2015 from ATL, and the people were not happy with the old aircraft used.

http://saharareporters.com/2015/07/13/n ... old-planes

I hate to say this, but there is definitely an agenda at play here (need I spell it out). You put the crappiest aircraft on your most profitable route. If it was LHR-JFK (do you think they would try this?). Yes, there is massive competition there vs no competition on LOS-ATL, but is this truly how you treat your highest yielding route? (if that is true) At the very least, schedule less tech prone 767s to LOS. Although, it could be that ONE of the aircraft's scheduled, hates going there.

I am not so sure I understand this article...it claims the 767 is not used on other TATL routes: "And part of the plea is that they are using old aircraft on this Lagos route, which they don’t use on the transatlantic routes." umm, many of DL's TATL routes are on 767's or even 757's! Obviously the authors of this article do not realize that JFK-DKR is a 757, LOS is actually doing quite well aircraft wise! DL operates many routes on the 757/767 that push their range, but it looks like the fuel problems are on the LOS end. My guess is that there is not enough demand to fill a 777/A333, that is over 80 extra seats!

I also do not believe ATL-LOS is DL's "most profitable route", I would love to see the source for that one. If that route was so profitable, DL would not be the only US carrier flying to Africa. I have a feeling they meant the most profitable in DL's network to Africa, which is not that impressive meaning they only operate 3 routes to Africa.

You might well have some valid points there. The one thing I do know. Nigeria tends to be one of the most profitable countries for BA and VS. A ton of premium demand on a short long-haul flight. Obv DL's flt is twice the stage length, but I'm sure the route does very well.

Midwestindy · Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:39 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:
ty97 wrote:

I have no idea which 763 is being referred to or how much truth there is to DL having been sending the same issue-ridden aircraft, but should be noted that all three DL JFK-LHR flights are 763s.

I do not really pay attention to DL that much, but I believe they still have dozens of 763s...some old/ancient, some not so old. I'm sure the best 763's are placed on "premium" routes and older crappy ones are routed on the multi city loop through less "desirable" cities.

No. All of DLs 763s are refurbished. Just because they are "old" doesn't mean they are "crappy." Do some research instead of posting this nonsense.

Were all of them refurbished by 2014-2015, because that is when the article was written. You might want to check that before you write a snarky comment to someone else. I fly Us-Nigeria-US often and I can attest to the fact that DL flew some pretty outdated cabins in the 2000-early2010s.

jbs2886 · Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:43 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:

I do not really pay attention to DL that much, but I believe they still have dozens of 763s...some old/ancient, some not so old. I'm sure the best 763's are placed on "premium" routes and older crappy ones are routed on the multi city loop through less "desirable" cities.

No. All of DLs 763s are refurbished. Just because they are "old" doesn't mean they are "crappy." Do some research instead of posting this nonsense.

Were all of them refurbished by 2014-2015, because that is when the article was written. You might want to check that before you write a snarky comment to someone else. I fly Us-Nigeria-US often and I can attest to the fact that DL flew some pretty outdated cabins in the 2000-early2010s.

When the article was written is irrelevant if the post is speaking to current operations, which it was.

Edit: yes they were refurbished then. viewtopic.php?t=577283

LAXLHR · Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:52 pm

dcajet wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Seems that they flew in July 2015 from ATL, and the people were not happy with the old aircraft used.

http://saharareporters.com/2015/07/13/n ... old-planes

Wow, that was a read!

I hate to say this, but there is definitely an agenda at play here (need I spell it out). You put the crappiest aircraft on your most profitable route. If it was LHR-JFK (do you think they would try this?). Yes, there is massive competition there vs no competition on LOS-ATL, but is this truly how you treat your highest yielding route? (if that is true) At the very least, schedule less tech prone 767s to LOS. Although, it could be that ONE of the aircraft's scheduled, hates going there.

(look up individual aircraft in many fleets that always go tech on one particular route) I know BA have one with the 777...I forget where that plane hates flying to...hah. Actually, there must be a thread on this topic somewhere on this site?

I'm not sure how to say the following, but I'll just blurt it out. An aircraft IS alive!...

The same DL 763ER that go to LOS go to NRT, HND, LAX, SEA, LHR, CDG, MAD, SCL, ZRH, etc. etc. Must have been a slow news day in Nigeria when they wrote that article back in 2015. No agenda. Moving on....

No, we are NOT moving on thank you very much!!

I'm SURE a few if not many 763ER's run throughout the DL system and do a LOS turn here and there... but from what that article claims, there are a lot of tech issues which points the finger at one particular jet ending up on that route on a fairly consistent basis, perhaps more than one.

OH, what do we have here...
N1610D has just been running LOS turns only this week int. Not saying this jet does not see other city action overseas.

N1612T runs a lot of NRT, PVG, SEA turns...and I saw one LOS turn

Obviously, not every flight is going tech.

LAXLHR · Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:

I do not really pay attention to DL that much, but I believe they still have dozens of 763s...some old/ancient, some not so old. I'm sure the best 763's are placed on "premium" routes and older crappy ones are routed on the multi city loop through less "desirable" cities.

No. All of DLs 763s are refurbished. Just because they are "old" doesn't mean they are "crappy." Do some research instead of posting this nonsense.

Were all of them refurbished by 2014-2015, because that is when the article was written. You might want to check that before you write a snarky comment to someone else. I fly Us-Nigeria-US often and I can attest to the fact that DL flew some pretty outdated cabins in the 2000-early2010s.

...and when I say crappy! I'm talking about the age/ reliability of a jet. Airlines know its best to avoid scheduling hanger queens and problem pensioners on their marquee routes. It's not just DL!

jbs2886 · Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:01 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
dcajet wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:

Wow, that was a read!

I hate to say this, but there is definitely an agenda at play here (need I spell it out). You put the crappiest aircraft on your most profitable route. If it was LHR-JFK (do you think they would try this?). Yes, there is massive competition there vs no competition on LOS-ATL, but is this truly how you treat your highest yielding route? (if that is true) At the very least, schedule less tech prone 767s to LOS. Although, it could be that ONE of the aircraft's scheduled, hates going there.

(look up individual aircraft in many fleets that always go tech on one particular route) I know BA have one with the 777...I forget where that plane hates flying to...hah. Actually, there must be a thread on this topic somewhere on this site?

I'm not sure how to say the following, but I'll just blurt it out. An aircraft IS alive!...

The same DL 763ER that go to LOS go to NRT, HND, LAX, SEA, LHR, CDG, MAD, SCL, ZRH, etc. etc. Must have been a slow news day in Nigeria when they wrote that article back in 2015. No agenda. Moving on....

No, we are NOT moving on thank you very much!!

I'm SURE a few if not many 763ER's run throughout the DL system and do a LOS turn here and there... but from what that article claims, there are a lot of tech issues which points the finger at one particular jet ending up on that route on a fairly consistent basis, perhaps more than one.

OH, what do we have here...
N1610D has just been running LOS turns only this week int. Not saying this jet does not see other city action overseas.

N1612T runs a lot of NRT, PVG, SEA turns...and I saw one LOS turn

Obviously, not every flight is going tech.

When this article was posted years ago, it was heavily debunked. DL is not out to screw LOS.

cvgComair · Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:06 pm

Whatever the cause was for all the diversions in 2015, looking at Flightaware, there was only 1 diversion and 1 cancelation of the route since April 2017, so it looks like they have fixed the problem since then.

thegoldenargosy · Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:09 pm

Delta was very serious about adding Nairobi from Dakar. The only reason why this route didn't happened was because the government had safety concerns.

Also can't a 763 make it JFK-LOS, I'm pretty sure North American flew it nonstop on the 763.

panamair · Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:10 pm

All Delta 767-300ERs were fully refurbished with flat-bed J seating and nose-to-tail AVOD PTVs by early 2014; the last one was done by February 2014 and that was one of the ex-Gulf 763s not used on LOS. ATL-LOS usually uses the 76Ts (ships 1607-1613) which incidentally are the youngest ones in the 763 fleet.

panamair · Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:13 pm

thegoldenargosy wrote:
Also can't a 763 make it JFK-LOS, I'm pretty sure North American flew it nonstop on the 763.

Yes it can...DL had actually scheduled the 763 for the route back then when they announced JFK-LOS.

DolphinAir747 · Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:17 pm

JFK-LOS is shorter than ATL-LOS so 767 range is no issue

Midwestindy · Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:00 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

No. All of DLs 763s are refurbished. Just because they are "old" doesn't mean they are "crappy." Do some research instead of posting this nonsense.

Were all of them refurbished by 2014-2015, because that is when the article was written. You might want to check that before you write a snarky comment to someone else. I fly Us-Nigeria-US often and I can attest to the fact that DL flew some pretty outdated cabins in the 2000-early2010s.

When the article was written is irrelevant if the post is speaking to current operations, which it was.

Edit: yes they were refurbished then. viewtopic.php?t=577283

When the article was written IS relevant because the situation has changed since 2014-2015, therefore the article could be irrelevant now

On another note, people are forgetting that DL has a monopoly on US-Nigeria flights, so they charge considerably for tickets on this route. Not only that, but I believe they have made sure that you can only pay for tickets in USD instead of NGN.

Furthermore, there is lots of premium traffic from US-Nigeria, and DL gets to collect a lot just on excess baggage fees alone (of which there are plenty on this route).

So I'm pretty confident ATL-LOS, and soon to be JFK-LOS are/will be very profitable for DL.

Cubsrule · Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:17 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
dcajet wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:

Wow, that was a read!

I hate to say this, but there is definitely an agenda at play here (need I spell it out). You put the crappiest aircraft on your most profitable route. If it was LHR-JFK (do you think they would try this?). Yes, there is massive competition there vs no competition on LOS-ATL, but is this truly how you treat your highest yielding route? (if that is true) At the very least, schedule less tech prone 767s to LOS. Although, it could be that ONE of the aircraft's scheduled, hates going there.

(look up individual aircraft in many fleets that always go tech on one particular route) I know BA have one with the 777...I forget where that plane hates flying to...hah. Actually, there must be a thread on this topic somewhere on this site?

I'm not sure how to say the following, but I'll just blurt it out. An aircraft IS alive!...

The same DL 763ER that go to LOS go to NRT, HND, LAX, SEA, LHR, CDG, MAD, SCL, ZRH, etc. etc. Must have been a slow news day in Nigeria when they wrote that article back in 2015. No agenda. Moving on....

No, we are NOT moving on thank you very much!!

I'm SURE a few if not many 763ER's run throughout the DL system and do a LOS turn here and there... but from what that article claims, there are a lot of tech issues which points the finger at one particular jet ending up on that route on a fairly consistent basis, perhaps more than one.

OH, what do we have here...
N1610D has just been running LOS turns only this week int. Not saying this jet does not see other city action overseas.

N1612T runs a lot of NRT, PVG, SEA turns...and I saw one LOS turn

Obviously, not every flight is going tech.

1610 is the fourth- or fifth-newsest 763 in the fleet (delivered April, 2000). Are you suggesting that it is somehow inferior?

alfa164 · Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:30 pm

cvgComair wrote:
TW870 wrote:
cvgComair thanks so much for posting that map.
That was from the peak of the SID scissor hub plan. Does anyone know exactly which of those routes ever operated? Did the US-SID-SSG ever start? Some routes that are listed on there never went through SID. ROB, for example, went through ACC and continued for a while until the Ebola crisis. ABV operated as well, but I believe it never stopped in SID. I am just curious about which of those blue lines actually came to fruition.

I know the routes to Malabo, Nairobi, and Luanda never took off. The flights to Abuja and Monrovia were operated from Accra when they actually launched, and they never launched the SID operation.
Here is the shift of the SID operation to DKR, but this never launched either:

Here is what actually launched by 2010, though Malabo never started:

Neither of those maps shows the Cape Town flight; didn't it operate for a while? Did it stop in SID or DKR?

NichCage · Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:33 pm

Delta is the only US airline flying to Africa, and they seem to make it work.

How does Delta manage to keep flying to Lagos when United cut the city? Does Delta even get money out of the country?

cvgComair · Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:36 pm

alfa164 wrote:
Neither of those maps shows the Cape Town flight; didn't it operate for a while? Did it stop in SID or DKR?

They operated it through DKR, but it did not last long. I had it on the map on my earlier post, here is the map from January 2009 again:

commavia · Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:40 pm

NichCage wrote:
How does Delta manage to keep flying to Lagos when United cut the city? Does Delta even get money out of the country?

I think it's largely a function of geography. I suspect that the majority of U.S.-Nigeria O&D lies east of IAH - which is to say, in locations where ATL is a far better connecting hub. IAH obviously generates significant volume on its own due to the energy industry, but otherwise it offers little in the way of meaningful, Nigeria-relevant connections that can't be handled just as well over ATL.

atl100million · Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:03 pm

NichCage wrote:
Delta is the only US airline flying to Africa, and they seem to make it work.

How does Delta manage to keep flying to Lagos when United cut the city? Does Delta even get money out of the country?

DL is simply splitting its LOS service between JFK and ATL. As with nearly every other international city, NYC is the largest O&D but ATL has the best connectivity in the world.

DL gets very good fares to/from Africa. They succeed because they moved first, Africa is not the big that more than one US airline can make the continent work and there is some halo effect between markets, and they are competing against fairly weak African carriers.

DL intended to start NBO and the initial flight (via DKR IIRC) was at the gate in ATL when DHS told them there was a confirmed missile attack planned against the flight. Kenya has improved border security with Somalia but it is still a risky part of the world. West and S. Africa are not only closer to the US but have stronger economic connections to the western hemisphere than eastern Africa which are economically closer to Europe.

uberflieger · Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:28 pm

commavia wrote:
Seems like a smart move

If anybody knows the LOS market by now it's Delta.

Just love how DL keeps pursuing opportunities in Africa. :airplane:

zakuivcustom · Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:42 pm

I think it's largely a function of geography. I suspect that the majority of U.S.-Nigeria O&D lies east of IAH - which is to say, in locations where ATL is a far better connecting hub. IAH obviously generates significant volume on its own due to the energy industry, but otherwise it offers little in the way of meaningful, Nigeria-relevant connections that can't be handled just as well over ATL.

If I remembered correctly, UA cut IAH-LOS back when the energy industry was in the dump due to ultra-low oil price. There's not much else O&D otherwise anyway.

B737900ER · Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:15 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
If I remembered correctly, UA cut IAH-LOS back when the energy industry was in the dump due to ultra-low oil price. There's not much else O&D otherwise anyway.

Texas has the largest Nigerian population in the United States, with a sizable amount living in Houston. When UA had their flight, coach was full on a regular basis. Business on the other hand not so much. But to say there isn't much O&D from Texas to Nigeria would be inaccurate.

atl100million · Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:23 am

Delta flight 54 still operates IAH (M88) ATL (763) LOS.

ATL is geographically positioned to pick up the Texas to Nigeria traffic while UA cut off most the eastern US to Nigeria and added a couple hours to the flight time.

DL does not have IAH-JFK service to connect to its JFK-LOS flight.

bfitzflyer · Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:32 am

atl100million wrote:
Delta flight 54 still operates IAH (M88) ATL (763) LOS.

ATL is geographically positioned to pick up the Texas to Nigeria traffic while UA cut off most the eastern US to Nigeria and added a couple hours to the flight time.

DL does not have IAH-JFK service to connect to its JFK-LOS flight.

Not that you were saying this, but highly doubt DL needs IAH connecting traffic to make JFK - LOS work. Some estimates have LOS soon to be the world's largest city. So population wise this is a no brainer.

klwright69 · Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:21 am

Interesting and probably a smart setup for DL serving LOS from ATL and JFK.
I recall that the Houston business community had wanted the LOS route for a long time.
But IAH-LOS actually lasted a long time, unlike HGH.
Due to business ties and ethnic ties, they could give it another go.
But good for DL.

factsonly · Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:19 am

NichCage wrote:
Delta is the only US airline flying to Africa, and they seem to make it work.

How does Delta manage to keep flying to Lagos when United cut the city? Does Delta even get money out of the country?

Delta works with 3x strong SKYTEAM carriers in Africa: AF/KL and KQ.

STAR and OneWORLD are less well developed in Africa:
- UA has LH - not so strong in Africa + ET = detour
- AA has only BA in Anglophone Africa.

DL is already able to offer multiple daily LOS-USA routes over AMS and CDG. Offering direct flihts to both ATL and JFK will only further strengthen the SKYTEAM network in Africa.

chrisp390 · Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:17 am

Good to see one US carrier pursuing opportunities in Africa. Any chance DL will give Luanda and the other routes they planned another chance? Africa has seen steady economic growth these past few years and it seems like it could support more service to the U.S. A bit more established Economy but, ATL-Cape Town seems like a route that could do quite well.

factsonly · Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:50 am

chrisp390 wrote:
Any chance DL will give Luanda and the other routes they planned another chance?

Luanda has been a disaster in recent months, traffic has dropped and several airlines have cut capacity.
A complete pull out by some carriers would not surprise anyone.

Here are the BA traffic figures for 2017 versus 2016 on its 2x weekly B772 service LHR-LAD, as an example:

- July 2017 vs July 2016 = 1.077 pax. vs 1.787 pax. -40%
- June 2017 = 712 pax. vs 1.518 pax. -53%
- May 2017 = 617 pax vs 1.202 pax - 49%
- Apr 2017 = 795 pax. vs 1.265 pax - 37%

The 4-class BA 772 has 224 seats, that makes for a 20-30% load factor, but no doubt at a corporate oil executive yield/seat.
If BA's 3-class B772 is used (275 seats) the loadfactor is even worse.

lesfalls · Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:29 am

factsonly wrote:
NichCage wrote:
Delta is the only US airline flying to Africa, and they seem to make it work.

How does Delta manage to keep flying to Lagos when United cut the city? Does Delta even get money out of the country?

Delta works with 3x strong SKYTEAM carriers in Africa: AF/KL and KQ.

STAR and OneWORLD are less well developed in Africa:
- UA has LH - not so strong in Africa + ET = detour
- AA has only BA in Anglophone Africa.

DL is already able to offer multiple daily LOS-USA routes over AMS and CDG. Offering direct flihts to both ATL and JFK will only further strengthen the SKYTEAM network in Africa.

UA also has SN. Thats why UA sends the likes of B777s to BRU for the connecting traffic as BRU is one of the best airports in Europe with links to Africa.

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