Some insight on the 80 fleet retirement. Starting June 1st, 2018 LAS will be the next base to go to an all airbus fleet. That will take care of a lot of the summer operational headaches associated with the Vegas heat. That will leave SFB as the last 80 base for Allegiant. My guess is once the college football charter season is wrapped up in 2018, we will see the remaining MD-80s being parked. I would also expect a big announcement in the near future about the acquision of more Airbus series airplanes. With this accelerated 80 retirement timeline, I have to think the remaining Airbus’s have already been acquired, just not announced where they will come from as of yet. Though the used airbus market is plentiful at this current moment in time.

Once G4 is an all airbus fleet, I would expect to see a large amount of growth again in 2019. Crew overnights are being tested, as was mentioned above, and I think we can see the introduction of longer, maybe even boarderline transcon flights. Red eyes are also being explored and I definitely think we will see G4 enter the scheduled international market. Think LAS to smaller cities in Mexico and Central America.

cbphoto wrote:

Some insight on the 80 fleet retirement. Starting June 1st, 2018 LAS will be the next base to go to an all airbus fleet. That will take care of a lot of the summer operational headaches associated with the Vegas heat. That will leave SFB as the last 80 base for Allegiant. My guess is once the college football charter season is wrapped up in 2018, we will see the remaining MD-80s being parked. I would also expect a big announcement in the near future about the acquision of more Airbus series airplanes. With this accelerated 80 retirement timeline, I have to think the remaining Airbus’s have already been acquired, just not announced where they will come from as of yet. Though the used airbus market is plentiful at this current moment in time.

At the same time Allegiant said they are retiring the 80s early that they do not expect to buy anymore used 320s in 2018, unless it was something really opportunistic. This is besides the 5 they are currently close to acquiring.

I guess they could add 319s or acquire a bunch of 320 while it is still 2017, but it sounds like they don't plan on adding anymore besides the ones on the schedule already posted.

I didn't realize that AVL is considered a G4 base. Why/based on what?

DOes anyone know how the Concord/Charlotte flights are doing? Is there a potential for more? I live in the area but still haven’t used themselves (F9 had a better sale price to Orlando the one time I've ordered it) nor have i heard of anyone else using it.

I think they might try KISP again to places like: KPIE, KMYR, KSFB, KIND, KFLL, and KCVG.

GSPSPOT wrote:

I didn't realize that AVL is considered a G4 base. Why/based on what?

There is an aircraft, pilots, flight attendants, and mechanics based at AVL. From what I remember, the city gave them some special perks for awhile if they agreed to base an aircraft there. It is a very small base though, I believe only two aircraft are there.

ahj2000 wrote:

DOes anyone know how the Concord/Charlotte flights are doing? Is there a potential for more? I live in the area but still haven’t used themselves (F9 had a better sale price to Orlando the one time I've ordered it) nor have i heard of anyone else using it.

FLL does great. The others are good and MSY has really picked up since it returned at the beginning of October. There are always rumors of additional flights, but nothing solid. when the former airport director left, I think they lost some momentum. Hopefully now that someone new is in place they will advocate to G4 for additional flights and cities.

I have a question for you guys that I have been seeing on FR24. Not sure if these are regular charter flights or possibly test flights for future announcements. (They did test flights to DAY before starting that airport.)

All the Flight numbers were 4xxx (in the 4 thousands)

They included

PBI-BNA
SFB-BNA
IND-CUN
CUN-PIE
AUS-MYR
AVL-AUS

Check FR24 and look up the tail numbers N215NV, N407NV, N246NV, and N224NV. You can see the routes that these aircraft have flown. It's kinda weird (even if it is a charter.)

zackary747 wrote:

I have a question for you guys that I have been seeing on FR24. Not sure if these are regular charter flights or possibly test flights for future announcements. (They did test flights to DAY before starting that airport.)

All the Flight numbers were 4xxx (in the 4 thousands)

They included

PBI-BNA
SFB-BNA
IND-CUN
CUN-PIE
AUS-MYR
AVL-AUS

Check FR24 and look up the tail numbers N215NV, N407NV, N246NV, and N224NV. You can see the routes that these aircraft have flown. It's kinda weird (even if it is a charter.)

Definitely Charters. Either College football or DOD charters with the exception of IND-CUN. I believe those are Apple Vacation charters.

cbphoto wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

I have a question for you guys that I have been seeing on FR24. Not sure if these are regular charter flights or possibly test flights for future announcements. (They did test flights to DAY before starting that airport.)

All the Flight numbers were 4xxx (in the 4 thousands)

They included

PBI-BNA
SFB-BNA
IND-CUN
CUN-PIE
AUS-MYR
AVL-AUS

Check FR24 and look up the tail numbers N215NV, N407NV, N246NV, and N224NV. You can see the routes that these aircraft have flown. It's kinda weird (even if it is a charter.)

Definitely Charters. Either College football or DOD charters with the exception of IND-CUN. I believe those are Apple Vacation charters.

I was thinking college charters for most of these. Apple Vacations don't have anything out of IND by the way.

What I find weird is the SFB-BNA one is flying really low at 20k feet and is taking a really weird route.

There is an upcoming 10 A320 due from Saudi Arabian.

zackary747 wrote:

I was thinking college charters for most of these. Apple Vacations don't have anything out of IND by the way.

What I find weird is the SFB-BNA one is flying really low at 20k feet and is taking a really weird route.

AAY4503 probably was the Austin Peay State University football team returning from their road game at Central Florida.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAY ... /KSFB/KBNA

There appears to have been some severe weather in the Southeast US earlier tonight, hence the routing, but that low altitude is pretty weird.

ctrabs0114 wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

I was thinking college charters for most of these. Apple Vacations don't have anything out of IND by the way.

What I find weird is the SFB-BNA one is flying really low at 20k feet and is taking a really weird route.

AAY4503 probably was the Austin Peay State University football team returning from their road game at Central Florida.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAY ... /KSFB/KBNA

There appears to have been some severe weather in the Southeast US earlier tonight, hence the routing, but that low altitude is pretty weird.

I flew back from BWI last night and the winds at cruise were strong out of the south at around 130 KTS, we later returned at 26000 ft to stay out of the strong headwind. My guess is that altitude is headwind related.

zackary747 wrote:

I have a question for you guys that I have been seeing on FR24. Not sure if these are regular charter flights or possibly test flights for future announcements. (They did test flights to DAY before starting that airport.)

All the Flight numbers were 4xxx (in the 4 thousands)

They included

PBI-BNA
SFB-BNA
IND-CUN
CUN-PIE
AUS-MYR
AVL-AUS

Check FR24 and look up the tail numbers N215NV, N407NV, N246NV, and N224NV. You can see the routes that these aircraft have flown. It's kinda weird (even if it is a charter.)

I have no idea what the AVL-AUS flight was, since there wasn't a college football team from this area playing in or near Austin area that I can think of. MYR-AUS was Coastal Carolina at Texas State.

floridaflyboy wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Allegiant's CEO said today they are retiring all their MDs by the end of 2018 now. A year earlier than expected. Good to hear.

Here is a link to the fleet size projected by aircraft through the end of 2018 by qtr.

https://twitter.com/ghimlay/status/923285191153586176

Wow. Down 20 planes between the middle and end of 2018?? That's quite the change.

Wow. I know MD-80 parts are getting scarce, due to AA operating them long and thus holding onto their parts. In particular, when AA cancelled their JT8D support contract, it just stopped the vendor chain dead in its tracks. Now the parts on the shelves are used up and why would a vendor build more when airlines will use a used part at any opportunity.

1. The MD-80s only have a book value of $42 million with parts. Wow! Talk about chump changes.
2. <i>"A hearty ‘thank you’ goes out to the members of our fleet team, who through hard work were able to source enough used A320 aircraft to make this happen. "</i> That tells me G4 found someone selling A320s cheap enough to make a fast switch before the parts ran out.
3. Airfleets.net database of registered MD-80s does not yet reflect at least two MD-80 retirements, but it is a known lagging indicator (why cancel a registration that is already paid for?).
4. Adding six A320 family (5 A320, 1 A319) aircraft is allowing some growth!

https://worldairlinenews.com/2017/10/27 ... d-of-2018/

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

I have a question for you guys that I have been seeing on FR24. Not sure if these are regular charter flights or possibly test flights for future announcements. (They did test flights to DAY before starting that airport.)

All the Flight numbers were 4xxx (in the 4 thousands)

They included

PBI-BNA
SFB-BNA
IND-CUN
CUN-PIE
AUS-MYR
AVL-AUS

Check FR24 and look up the tail numbers N215NV, N407NV, N246NV, and N224NV. You can see the routes that these aircraft have flown. It's kinda weird (even if it is a charter.)

I have no idea what the AVL-AUS flight was, since there wasn't a college football team from this area playing in or near Austin area that I can think of. MYR-AUS was Coastal Carolina at Texas State.

AVL-AUS-AVL was the ferry portion of the flight to get the flight to AUS for the team. Those position ferrys are usually empty, except for Flight attendends and charter reps!

I know the CUN-PIE flights arrive here empty. Im assuming it's for some sort of charter more so than a proving flight.

For domestic US operations on a US carrier, there is no such thing as a "proving flight" or a "test"

When G4 landed at OGS on the inaugural inbound, it was the first time anything greater than 35-40 seats ever landed at the airport.

If the airport and airline are certified, its simply good to go.

Seasonal SBN-MYR being worked on by airports on both ends.

SBN-LAS going to A320 aircraft. G4 cannot wait to replace the MD80 on this route which is one of their longest.

G4 has also inquired local airport officials in SBN about operating SBN-CUN flights. With US Customs there and the facility about to become fully operational for all type aircraft this is a possibility.

cbphoto wrote:

Some insight on the 80 fleet retirement. Starting June 1st, 2018 LAS will be the next base to go to an all airbus fleet. That will take care of a lot of the summer operational headaches associated with the Vegas heat. That will leave SFB as the last 80 base for Allegiant. My guess is once the college football charter season is wrapped up in 2018, we will see the remaining MD-80s being parked. I would also expect a big announcement in the near future about the acquision of more Airbus series airplanes. With this accelerated 80 retirement timeline, I have to think the remaining Airbus’s have already been acquired, just not announced where they will come from as of yet. Though the used airbus market is plentiful at this current moment in time.

Once G4 is an all airbus fleet, I would expect to see a large amount of growth again in 2019. Crew overnights are being tested, as was mentioned above, and I think we can see the introduction of longer, maybe even boarderline transcon flights. Red eyes are also being explored and I definitely think we will see G4 enter the scheduled international market. Think LAS to smaller cities in Mexico and Central America.

You may know this, but I am sure some on here don't remember this. G4 ran a red eye LAS-TYS when they first launched the route in 2007. If I remember correctly the flight continued from TYS-SFB. I figured it was used to rotate planes. It ended in 2008 blamed on spiking fuel prices. I want to say G4 ran another red eye around the same time I just can't remember the route. I always thought very unique at the time that TYS had a red eye flight.

To quote TYSflyer,

[/quote]You may know this, but I am sure some on here don't remember this. G4 ran a red eye LAS-TYS when they first launched the route in 2007. If I remember correctly the flight continued from TYS-SFB. I figured it was used to rotate planes. It ended in 2008 blamed on spiking fuel prices. I want to say G4 ran another red eye around the same time I just can't remember the route. I always thought very unique at the time that TYS had a red eye flight.[/quote]


The route was LAS-GSP. It had the Knoxville route beat by about 30 minutes. To this day it’s the longest route G4 has ever regularly flown with the MD-80. It didn’t last long. It was canceled less than 6 months in. Same reasons- fuel. It’s a shame because the flight went out slammed full every time. It was a red eye in from Vegas and turned back to LAS at around 7am. It was also expensive because they flew a full second crew with the plane to fly it back to LAS.

Northwest1988 wrote:

To quote TYSflyer,

You may know this, but I am sure some on here don't remember this. G4 ran a red eye LAS-TYS when they first launched the route in 2007. If I remember correctly the flight continued from TYS-SFB. I figured it was used to rotate planes. It ended in 2008 blamed on spiking fuel prices. I want to say G4 ran another red eye around the same time I just can't remember the route. I always thought very unique at the time that TYS had a red eye flight.[/quote]


The route was LAS-GSP. It had the Knoxville route beat by about 30 minutes. To this day it’s the longest route G4 has ever regularly flown with the MD-80. It didn’t last long. It was canceled less than 6 months in. Same reasons- fuel. It’s a shame because the flight went out slammed full every time. It was a red eye in from Vegas and turned back to LAS at around 7am. It was also expensive because they flew a full second crew with the plane to fly it back to LAS.[/quote]
Yes I remember that now! I am surprised GSP has not come back to LAS. Seems like it would be a perfect route for the A319. Maybe we will see it in the next year or so.

Once G4 goes all-Airbus, I wonder if they'll consider adding the A321 to their fleet for high-demand routes. I could see an A321 doing routes to SFB, PGD, and LAS from small cities that have a loyal G4 following and demand to sunny spots that an A320 sells out on. Some of G4's midsize markets would also be ideal for the A321, particularly places like CVG and IND where they have a loyal following and a crew base.

Obviously, they would be bought used (CFM56 only like the rest of the Airbus fleet) then retrofitted into a Y230 configuration with space-flex lavs - a gain of 44 seats over an A320 with space-flex. And knowing G4, they could fill those 44 seats on the right routes year-round.

Won’t be able to tell the difference between Allegiant and Spirit soon!

I have some allegiant questions, hope they weren't answered already, don't have my reading glass...getting old, anyway I was in LAS oct 30 and saw 2 757's parked one at a gate, what runs do they use them on? I went on their website and their selling tickets till oct 31 2017 to HNL. anyone have a knowledge on this? Thanks much

socko wrote:

I have some allegiant questions, hope they weren't answered already, don't have my reading glass...getting old, anyway I was in LAS oct 30 and saw 2 757's parked one at a gate, what runs do they use them on? I went on their website and their selling tickets till oct 31 2017 to HNL. anyone have a knowledge on this? Thanks much

They are ending the HNL route and retiring the planes.

Oh, do you know when retirement is for the 757's?

socko wrote:

Oh, do you know when retirement is for the 757's?

I don't know if it is after the last HNL route on the day you listed or if they are still using them a little longer on other routes. But by the end of the year. They are retiring them because there is some big maintenance date coming on them (due to hours flown) and they don't want to pay for it. Someone else on here might know the details better than me though.

Thank you for the info!!! Jshank83

CVG-LAS just had its last scheduled G4 757 flight yesterday, looks like they will be completely out of service when the HNL is done.

Jshank83 wrote:

socko wrote:

Oh, do you know when retirement is for the 757's?

I don't know if it is after the last HNL route on the day you listed or if they are still using them a little longer on other routes. But by the end of the year. They are retiring them because there is some big maintenance date coming on them (due to hours flown) and they don't want to pay for it. Someone else on here might know the details better than me though.

The D-checks is the specific maintenance that has to be done on the aircraft FYI.

This is one of my favorite threads because it's full of creative thoughts and ideas as opposed to talk about the common routes like LAX-JFK and SFO-BOS

Whispers of used A330's.

Any thoughts on expanding service at some of the smaller airports they currently serve like EVV?

Varsity1 wrote:

Whispers of used A330's.

That'll be the day They don't even overnight crew right now

Any possibility of G4 restarting PBG-LAS with an Airbus aircraft?

Do you think they will venture into the EYW market? Or would the flight have too many payload restrictions with the Airbus A319/A320 to make it profitable?

jnev3289 wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

Whispers of used A330's.

That'll be the day They don't even overnight crew right now

They are testing overnights right now.

FATFlyer wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Thanks for sharing, the resort hotel sounds like an interesting possibility, I assume it would be near SFB/PIE if it were to happen

PVD757 wrote:

If they start international operations, my guess would be CUN but given the many small airports with limited US Customs abilities they serve, maybe they look at the preclearance destinations first? AUA, BDA, FPO, NAS, and soon PUJ?

One thing Allegiant has studied is customs stops on international return flights. That would eliminate the problem of a small city not having a FIS. But I do not know if they decided that the extra cost was worthwhile.

G4 also spoke with a number of smaller cities a couple of years ago and encouraged them to pursue adding a FIS.

SBN has added an FIS so that Allegiant and the airport can work on CUN flights.

Varsity1 wrote:

jnev3289 wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

Whispers of used A330's.

That'll be the day They don't even overnight crew right now

They are testing overnights right now.

Seems like cart before horse don't you think?

freakyrat wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Thanks for sharing, the resort hotel sounds like an interesting possibility, I assume it would be near SFB/PIE if it were to happen

PVD757 wrote:

If they start international operations, my guess would be CUN but given the many small airports with limited US Customs abilities they serve, maybe they look at the preclearance destinations first? AUA, BDA, FPO, NAS, and soon PUJ?

One thing Allegiant has studied is customs stops on international return flights. That would eliminate the problem of a small city not having a FIS. But I do not know if they decided that the extra cost was worthwhile.

G4 also spoke with a number of smaller cities a couple of years ago and encouraged them to pursue adding a FIS.

SBN has added an FIS so that Allegiant and the airport can work on CUN flights.

PIA also built an FIS per Allegiant's request.

Some other small cities in the G4 system, FWA for one, plan to add one as soon as they expand their terminals to handle growth that has been led by G4 at those airports. Most of these airports talking about an FIS for G4 and other international flights already have one for bizjets and cargo. SBN is an exception to the rule as it never had any US Customs presence prior to G4's request.

Of course, at midsize stations like CVG, IND, SDF, and PIT, the FIS has been there for years. All G4 has to do before throwing an Airbus from those cities to CUN or the like is get their computer systems and ground handling companies ready for international flights, so expect midsize markets to get the first international flights. Then the small markets can get them as FIS facilities come online.

jnev3289 wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

jnev3289 wrote:

That'll be the day They don't even overnight crew right now

They are testing overnights right now.

Seems like cart before horse don't you think?

Maurice is very 'ambitious' about the possibilities surrounding G4. He and a few others believe paying cash for timed out aircraft that can sit unused most of the week is worth it. Dual qualled crews is more possible across airbus products than the current 757 situation.

What do you mean when you state they do not "overnight crews".

william wrote:

What do you mean when you state they do not "overnight crews".

Crews are back home where they started every day they fly, versus mainline airlines pilots will do 2-3 day trips. Example N233NV Allegiant A320 yesterday flew with 1 crew PIE-GSO-PIE-HTS-PIE-MSY-PIE. Counter example N528VA Virgin A319 today flew SFO-DAL-LAX-SEA-LAX-SEA with 1 crew

socko wrote:

Oh, do you know when retirement is for the 757's?

The last HNL turn was Saturday 10/28. 906NV was ferried from LAS-VCV today and retired. 905NV did a little more work, and flew a charter LAS-GRK-RIV before ferrying to VCV for retirement this afternoon.

deltadudejg wrote:

william wrote:

What do you mean when you state they do not "overnight crews".

Crews are back home where they started every day they fly, versus mainline airlines pilots will do 2-3 day trips. Example N233NV Allegiant A320 yesterday flew with 1 crew PIE-GSO-PIE-HTS-PIE-MSY-PIE. Counter example N528VA Virgin A319 today flew SFO-DAL-LAX-SEA-LAX-SEA with 1 crew

I've never heard of G4 crews doing much more than 4 legs in a day. I would guess there was a crew change at some point in PIE.

The VX example you have had to be almost 13 hours of flying. No way that's legal with one crew.

FWAERJ wrote:

Of course, at midsize stations like CVG, IND, SDF, and PIT, the FIS has been there for years.

Customs at Louisville is not able to handle international passengers at this time. There was a charter from the Caribbean that had to divert to SDF earlier this year and CBP had to scramble to get enough staff and equipment to SDF to handle the arriving passengers.

astaz wrote:

socko wrote:

Oh, do you know when retirement is for the 757's?

The last HNL turn was Saturday 10/28. 906NV was ferried from LAS-VCV today and retired. 905NV did a little more work, and flew a charter LAS-GRK-RIV before ferrying to VCV for retirement this afternoon.

How do pilots who fly the airplanes to VCV get home?

jnev3289 wrote:

astaz wrote:

socko wrote:

Oh, do you know when retirement is for the 757's?

The last HNL turn was Saturday 10/28. 906NV was ferried from LAS-VCV today and retired. 905NV did a little more work, and flew a charter LAS-GRK-RIV before ferrying to VCV for retirement this afternoon.

How do pilots who fly the airplanes to VCV get home?

Either limo back to LAS, or limo to ONT and Southwest back to LAS. Have seen both done.

So it’s official... No more 757 at Allegiant.

Allegiant website is under maintenance as of 4:13 AM ET. Probably general maintenance, but you never know what they're planning. It should be just a matter of time until their schedule extension is out.