WPvsMW
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A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:26 pm

In a PATA presentation yesterday, the HI DOT Airports Div. speaker stated that the gate for the A380 at HNL is set for completion by March 2019 (yes, 2019... it's first deck jetbridge until then), and will be Gate 29 in the Ewa Concourse. The second deck jetbridge will use space formerly occupied by the Airports Div. itself. The speaker noted that AIrports Div. is funded by landing fees and concession rent, without tax money (in state lingo, it's an "enterprise fund", not a "general fund" operation), and that only AK, HI, and MD continue to operate their respective states' airports through state agencies. Efforts in the HI State Leg. to create a private airport authority have died in the Leg. for the past ~10 years.
 
azjubilee
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:29 am

And somehow this silly project for one airline will probably get done before all the other projects that are already ridiculously behind schedule.
 
jsnww81
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:36 am

azjubilee wrote:
And somehow this silly project for one airline will probably get done before all the other projects that are already ridiculously behind schedule.


Right? We've been hearing about the "mauka concourse" at the interisland terminal for over a decade now. Are all those ridiculous renderings of never-started projects still posted all over the airport, or did they finally have enough sense to take them down?

As much as I love the retro 1970s feel of HNL - other than name-brand retail and some new check-in islands, it still looks exactly the same as it did on my first trip there in 1985 - it's beyond time to update the place. The Neighbor Island airports are just as tired looking.
 
77H
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:08 am

jsnww81 wrote:
azjubilee wrote:
And somehow this silly project for one airline will probably get done before all the other projects that are already ridiculously behind schedule.


Right? We've been hearing about the "mauka concourse" at the interisland terminal for over a decade now. Are all those ridiculous renderings of never-started projects still posted all over the airport, or did they finally have enough sense to take them down?

As much as I love the retro 1970s feel of HNL - other than name-brand retail and some new check-in islands, it still looks exactly the same as it did on my first trip there in 1985 - it's beyond time to update the place. The Neighbor Island airports are just as tired looking.


OGG's terminal was built in the very early 90's I believe. I think OGG has the best facilities in the state. Admittedly, it doesn't have much in the way of concessions but it is mostly an O&D airport. Bathrooms are worlds better than HNL's "port-a-potty" style restrooms.

77H
 
azjubilee
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:19 am

jsnww81 wrote:
azjubilee wrote:
And somehow this silly project for one airline will probably get done before all the other projects that are already ridiculously behind schedule.


Right? We've been hearing about the "mauka concourse" at the interisland terminal for over a decade now. Are all those ridiculous renderings of never-started projects still posted all over the airport, or did they finally have enough sense to take them down?

As much as I love the retro 1970s feel of HNL - other than name-brand retail and some new check-in islands, it still looks exactly the same as it did on my first trip there in 1985 - it's beyond time to update the place. The Neighbor Island airports are just as tired looking.


Some of the renderings are still there, but they took most of them down. Things are still moving forward, but are really delayed. The rent-a-car facility still looks like a hole in the ground where workers are playing with dirt. The Mauka concourse can't ever start until the old inter-island terminal is torn down. That can't happen until they finally find a spot for Island Air and Mokulele, now that the commuter terminal project has been shelved. Of course, NONE of that can happen until the Hawaiian Cargo and Maintenance facility is complete. Though ridiculously behind schedule, there is actually an end in sight! Once that completes and HAL moves in they can tear the current facilities down and finish the taxiway project.

As for the rest of the airport, the awning that never seems to be finished is starting to take shape. The Ewa concourse expansion is looking like it's reaching the end state with its wider hallways, new concessions, bigger and renovated bathrooms and new gate podiums. Central concourse and Diamond Head are status quo. Lots of new shops and stuff giving the central shopping and dining area a mall like appearance. While lots of progress, albeit slow, has been made the airport is still light years behind where it needs to be. But they got the Daniel K. Inouye signs up right way. :roll:
 
WPvsMW
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:01 am

The Departure Level awning is due for completion in Sept. 2017, per the HI DOT ADiv source in my original post. There are no plans to replace the dreaded WikiWiki rolling sauna. No rail, no moving sidewalks, WikiWiki until there's an Airport Authority (IMO).
 
azjubilee
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:18 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
The Departure Level awning is due for completion in Sept. 2017, per the HI DOT ADiv source in my original post. There are no plans to replace the dreaded WikiWiki rolling sauna. No rail, no moving sidewalks, WikiWiki until there's an Airport Authority (IMO).


I just took the WikiWiki and I got all excited when we boarded a very nicely airconditioned bus. Apparently they're only temporary. Moving sidewalks are in certain areas of the airport, as you know, but never seem to work. If hell froze over and someone with half a business brain and some vision was running the airport, maybe they could see the potential for a passenger moving system on the roads the Wiki Wiki use. How nice would it be to board an airconditioned automated people mover to whisk you from area to area? One can only dream...
 
727200
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:26 pm

2019? I guess some tour operator will pick a couple up on the cheap from lease return, make them cattle car coach seats and try and fly 800 people to the islands. Because we all know, and some don't want to admit, this is a niche plane for a couple of players and its time has long passed.
 
azjubilee
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:46 pm

727200 wrote:
2019? I guess some tour operator will pick a couple up on the cheap from lease return, make them cattle car coach seats and try and fly 800 people to the islands. Because we all know, and some don't want to admit, this is a niche plane for a couple of players and its time has long passed.


ANA has announced plans to fly to HNL with newly acquired 380s starting in 2019.
 
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Stitch
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:20 pm

727200 wrote:
2019? I guess some tour operator will pick a couple up on the cheap from lease return, make them cattle car coach seats and try and fly 800 people to the islands. Because we all know, and some don't want to admit, this is a niche plane for a couple of players and its time has long passed.


This is effectively what ANA (probably under the Air Japan brand) will be doing, though they picked their three up via acquiring the physical assets of Skymark.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:07 pm

Also, more automated passport kiosks are being installed...But the immigration lobby is not being expanded . I predict pax will be held at gate lobbies for flow control at immigration. Immigration overflows without VLAs now...
 
azjubilee
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:23 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
WPvsMW wrote:
Also, more automated passport kiosks are being installed...But the immigration lobby is not being expanded . I predict pax will be held at gate lobbies for flow control at immigration. Immigration overflows without VLAs now...


This already happens today, only everyone is held on the plane. It's called a "customs hold." When I raised the issue around here regarding HNL's inability to realistically handle this aircraft I was basically told I didn't know what I was talking about and that it wouldn't be a big deal. :roll: :banghead:
 
WPvsMW
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:48 pm

I've had the "customs hold" be a "lobby" hold... deplaned and queued for buses, the line snakes from the plane, across the jetbridge, L1 lobby, up the escalator, L2 lobby. I prefer that to waiting on the plane.

Just a wild prediction based of decades of HNL improvement projects.... the new Gate 29 will be delayed. :o :o NH's op plan should include lower deck only boarding initially.

I'm curious if the new jetbridge will be double-decked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWt5K48rxcY
 
weekendppl
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:25 pm

After, or before, the *long* ride across the pond in a 777 Y seat, I find the walk between the Interisland and the Diamond Head a good opportunity to stretch my legs and much more pleasant than, say, waiting, back in the 1980s, in the Diamond Head. YMMV.
 
azjubilee
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:01 am

WPvsMW wrote:
I've had the "customs hold" be a "lobby" hold... deplaned and queued for buses, the line snakes from the plane, across the jetbridge, L1 lobby, up the escalator, L2 lobby. I prefer that to waiting on the plane.

Just a wild prediction based of decades of HNL improvement projects.... the new Gate 29 will be delayed. :o :o NH's op plan should include lower deck only boarding initially.

I'm curious if the new jetbridge will be double-decked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWt5K48rxcY


I think what you experienced is just a backup in getting people onto the busses. A customs hold is predetermined based on a/c arrival and everyone is held onboard the aircraft. Nobody is allowed to get off until the clearance is given.

Somehow I think the State might manage to bend over backwards to make this project happen for ANA. It wouldn't surprise me in the least. They'll love the "prestige" of finally becoming an A380 airport and will do almost anything to cater to the Japanese carriers.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:12 am

OK... I've never experienced a customs hold, for which I am grateful.
 
panampreflight
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:06 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
OK... I've never experienced a customs hold, for which I am grateful.



I agree, but with all these negative comments I want to bring up the fact that when we do exit the aircraft [in the terminal that Delta
arrives at, can't remember the name] you can still smell the hibiscus flowers from the leis, which brings you back to the real Hawaii of year gone by. I think it's important. This is NICE!.
 
qantas747
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:51 pm

I wonder if there is medium term plans for EK to enter HNL? Their 77Ls can make the distance as would their A380HGW . Its a similar distance to DXB to AKL and they would be the only ME3 operating there.
 
Breathe
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:58 pm

Will the HART be built by then? :D :stirthepot:
 
WPvsMW
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:16 pm

qantas747 wrote:
I wonder if there is medium term plans for EK to enter HNL? Their 77Ls can make the distance as would their A380HGW . Its a similar distance to DXB to AKL and they would be the only ME3 operating there.


I'm sure ADiv would love to see more ROI on rebuilt Gate 29, but customs holds would become a major issue.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:17 pm

Breathe wrote:
Will the HART be built by then? :D :stirthepot:


The H-1 Airport Viaduct took 20 years to build. I'd say the same for HART.
 
jsnww81
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:17 pm

77H wrote:
OGG's terminal was built in the very early 90's I believe. I think OGG has the best facilities in the state. Admittedly, it doesn't have much in the way of concessions but it is mostly an O&D airport. Bathrooms are worlds better than HNL's "port-a-potty" style restrooms.
77H


The first phase of the OGG terminal opened in the fall of 1990 and the second phase in 1992. The complex was designed in the 1980s and looked out-of-date as soon as it opened. At least the terminals at LIH, ITO and KOA made some attempt to communicate architecturally that you're in Hawaii. OGG is a lot of ribbed concrete, smoked glass and steel awnings. Apart from a couple of lava-rock walls in the ticket areas and some koa-wood trim on the gate podiums, it could be an airport anywhere in the world.

azjubilee wrote:
Some of the renderings are still there, but they took most of them down. Things are still moving forward, but are really delayed. The rent-a-car facility still looks like a hole in the ground where workers are playing with dirt. The Mauka concourse can't ever start until the old inter-island terminal is torn down. That can't happen until they finally find a spot for Island Air and Mokulele, now that the commuter terminal project has been shelved. Of course, NONE of that can happen until the Hawaiian Cargo and Maintenance facility is complete. Though ridiculously behind schedule, there is actually an end in sight! Once that completes and HAL moves in they can tear the current facilities down and finish the taxiway project.

As for the rest of the airport, the awning that never seems to be finished is starting to take shape. The Ewa concourse expansion is looking like it's reaching the end state with its wider hallways, new concessions, bigger and renovated bathrooms and new gate podiums. Central concourse and Diamond Head are status quo. Lots of new shops and stuff giving the central shopping and dining area a mall like appearance. While lots of progress, albeit slow, has been made the airport is still light years behind where it needs to be. But they got the Daniel K. Inouye signs up right way. :roll:


A bit off topic, but... this whole thing has echoes of the early 1990s, when the main concourse at HNL had big renderings of the proposed international terminal and people mover. There was even a very detailed architect's model in a glass case. Would have had 8-10 more gates on an extended Diamond Head concourse, and a massive headhouse with two new ticket lobbies (east of the current Lobby 8) and a giant immigration hall. The whole thing would have been connected by an automated people mover (named "Kumulani" - they had a whole panel explaining the name and how the trains would be painted) running on the current Wiki-Wiki guideway. Check it out: http://aviation.hawaii.gov/wp-content/u ... x-1991.pdf

Then the first Gulf War came and overseas arrivals plummeted. The current Interisland Terminal and Ewa Concourse extension were already under construction, so they were finished, but everything else was shelved, and HNL was left unchanged for basically a quarter-century.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:14 am

Yes, the old KPMG report... that omitted jetbridges in most of the drawings of airside. Hmmm, accountants, not architects. Just maybe there was a political connection. ;) ;) ;)
 
hnl808
Posts: 29
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:13 am

qantas747 wrote:
I wonder if there is medium term plans for EK to enter HNL? Their 77Ls can make the distance as would their A380HGW . Its a similar distance to DXB to AKL and they would be the only ME3 operating there.


I would not be surprised to see EK operating to HNL sometime in the future. I feel like they are starting to run out of destinations to serve with all their aircraft that they have. I'm sure most would say that there is no traffic, however I can see this as an opportunity for passengers throughout EK's network to transit DXB on-wards to HNL and vice versa. Currently passengers wanting to go to/from Europe/Middle East and South Asia to/from HNL have to transit via Japan, Korea or China. EK might be able to offer a better connection via DXB.
 
hnl808
Posts: 29
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:22 am

WPvsMW wrote:
I've had the "customs hold" be a "lobby" hold... deplaned and queued for buses, the line snakes from the plane, across the jetbridge, L1 lobby, up the escalator, L2 lobby. I prefer that to waiting on the plane.

Just a wild prediction based of decades of HNL improvement projects.... the new Gate 29 will be delayed. :o :o NH's op plan should include lower deck only boarding initially.

I'm curious if the new jetbridge will be double-decked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWt5K48rxcY



I still don't understand why HNL requires a gate hold for gates 26 thru 34 since the customers must walk to the immigrations hall. Rather than having the customers wait on-board the aircraft, they should be allowed off and if the immigration hall is backed-up they can begin lining up in the immigration concourse just like every other airport that I have arrived at as an international arrival. This will allow the airline to start "turning" the aircraft for its departure and prevent delays.

I also don't understand why the airport authority does not allow multiple international flights to deplane at once in the Ewa concourse. I have seen multiple times where an airline at the adjacent gate must wait for all passengers and crew to deplane before they are allowed to deplane. The customers are going to end up mixing in the arrivals hall anyway. I swear HNL is the only airport that does this.
 
77H
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:45 am

jsnww81 wrote:
77H wrote:
OGG's terminal was built in the very early 90's I believe. I think OGG has the best facilities in the state. Admittedly, it doesn't have much in the way of concessions but it is mostly an O&D airport. Bathrooms are worlds better than HNL's "port-a-potty" style restrooms.
77H


The first phase of the OGG terminal opened in the fall of 1990 and the second phase in 1992. The complex was designed in the 1980s and looked out-of-date as soon as it opened. At least the terminals at LIH, ITO and KOA made some attempt to communicate architecturally that you're in Hawaii. OGG is a lot of ribbed concrete, smoked glass and steel awnings. Apart from a couple of lava-rock walls in the ticket areas and some koa-wood trim on the gate podiums, it could be an airport anywhere in the world.

azjubilee wrote:
Some of the renderings are still there, but they took most of them down. Things are still moving forward, but are really delayed. The rent-a-car facility still looks like a hole in the ground where workers are playing with dirt. The Mauka concourse can't ever start until the old inter-island terminal is torn down. That can't happen until they finally find a spot for Island Air and Mokulele, now that the commuter terminal project has been shelved. Of course, NONE of that can happen until the Hawaiian Cargo and Maintenance facility is complete. Though ridiculously behind schedule, there is actually an end in sight! Once that completes and HAL moves in they can tear the current facilities down and finish the taxiway project.

As for the rest of the airport, the awning that never seems to be finished is starting to take shape. The Ewa concourse expansion is looking like it's reaching the end state with its wider hallways, new concessions, bigger and renovated bathrooms and new gate podiums. Central concourse and Diamond Head are status quo. Lots of new shops and stuff giving the central shopping and dining area a mall like appearance. While lots of progress, albeit slow, has been made the airport is still light years behind where it needs to be. But they got the Daniel K. Inouye signs up right way. :roll:


A bit off topic, but... this whole thing has echoes of the early 1990s, when the main concourse at HNL had big renderings of the proposed international terminal and people mover. There was even a very detailed architect's model in a glass case. Would have had 8-10 more gates on an extended Diamond Head concourse, and a massive headhouse with two new ticket lobbies (east of the current Lobby 8) and a giant immigration hall. The whole thing would have been connected by an automated people mover (named "Kumulani" - they had a whole panel explaining the name and how the trains would be painted) running on the current Wiki-Wiki guideway. Check it out: http://aviation.hawaii.gov/wp-content/u ... x-1991.pdf

Then the first Gulf War came and overseas arrivals plummeted. The current Interisland Terminal and Ewa Concourse extension were already under construction, so they were finished, but everything else was shelved, and HNL was left unchanged for basically a quarter-century.


Building an extension on the Diamond Head Concourse seems like a relatively straightforward way to get additional gates. At least easier than the proposed Mauka Concourse which completely displaces the Commuter Terminal. The ramp for an extension is already in place which is currently used as hard stands. Perhaps if 4L/22R is closed as has been proposed they could turn the area around 4L, south of 26R into hard stands.

Doing so should have limited disruptions to 8L arrivals as there is already a LAHSO line in place prior to the 4's and most aircraft exit at taxiway H or prior.

77H
 
WPvsMW
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:51 am

Why customs hold onboard? "It's the way we've always done it." Shun any new way if the old way works. Having worked within HI State Govt for a while, I can tell you there's a big disconnect between the knowledge that tourism IS the state economy and how to support tourism. The most recent glaring example: HART's original route went from Kapolei to Bishop Street without stopping at HNL; the planners commute suburb to town every day.... why stop at the airport?
 
77H
Posts: 597
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:41 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Why customs hold onboard? "It's the way we've always done it." Shun any new way if the old way works. Having worked within HI State Govt for a while, I can tell you there's a big disconnect between the knowledge that tourism IS the state economy and how to support tourism. The most recent glaring example: HART's original route went from Kapolei to Bishop Street without stopping at HNL; the planners commute suburb to town every day.... why stop at the airport?


I agree. There are a lot of disconnects in our government here. As for HART. HART is no longer a White Elephant, it is a White Whale. My prediction is that the rail be used by West Siders exclusively too and from town. I can't think of why anyone from town would use the rail to go West. The rail could have kept a lot of rental cars off the H1 and Waikiki if the rail would have stopped in Waikiki. Very few tourists are going to get on the rail at the airport only to have to find their way from Ala Moana to Waikiki on their own. The money for the rail should go to affordable housing and existing infrastructure improvements.

77H
 
WPvsMW
Topic Author
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:27 pm

Agreed... but eventually the rail will be extended as originally planned, Waikiki and UH Manoa. Might take another 20 years.
 
Breathe
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:48 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Breathe wrote:
Will the HART be built by then? :D :stirthepot:


The H-1 Airport Viaduct took 20 years to build. I'd say the same for HART.

WOW! Did the developers for BER hire their executive staff from Hawaii? :D

To be fair a lot of work for HART appears to be have been completed. The only issue that I've read about HART is funding the project, which to be fair is a pretty major issue!
 
WPvsMW
Topic Author
Posts: 556
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Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:31 pm

Breathe wrote:
To be fair a lot of work for HART appears to be have been completed. The only issue that I've read about HART is funding the project, which to be fair is a pretty major issue!


Respectfully disagree. HART construction is working its way E from Kapolei. The work to date has been in the ag and surburban areas. Penetrating the airport area and urban core remains.. and correct, it's underfunded. IOW, only the easy part is done.
 
Breathe
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: A380 gates at HNL set for March 2019

Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:13 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Breathe wrote:
To be fair a lot of work for HART appears to be have been completed. The only issue that I've read about HART is funding the project, which to be fair is a pretty major issue!


Respectfully disagree. HART construction is working its way E from Kapolei. The work to date has been in the ag and surburban areas. Penetrating the airport area and urban core remains.. and correct, it's underfunded. IOW, only the easy part is done.

Ah, I see. Given the amount of work (and MONEY!) that has been spent and politicians not wanting to admitting they've ballsed up. I would imagine, this will eventually be completed at whatever cost to the tax-payer!

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