PortugalAviator
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TAP Portugal's Future

Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:35 am

Just been hearing that TAP's been doing well in 2017 but I noticed that they seem to have a lack of capacity on the A330 routes to America. Do anyone have any ideas how they can manage on the new A330 Neo's or maybe they can explore a new transatlantic aircraft like the 777X?
 
TheGeordielad
Posts: 818
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:06 pm

777X will be too big for their current routes.
 
airbazar
Posts: 7739
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:41 pm

Their strategy has been made very clear: The plan to remain a full service carrier while still being able to compete with LCC's. They think they can do that by maintaining a low operating cost and putting more seats in their planes.
In the TATL market, they ordered the A321LR to expand to up to 10 destinations in the U.S. and 8 more in Brazil.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/todayint ... /29210715/
I think they intend to fill the gap between the large network carriers and the LCC's in the TATL market.
The A333NEO's will replace their current widebody fleet. These already offer a capacity increase from the current A332 fleet and most of the cities they will serve in N.America will have a hard time filling an A333 in the off season so anything larger would be bad, IMO. As it is they've already started cutting down JFK and BOS for the upcoming Winter schedule and those are their 2 largest markets in the U.S.
 
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AECM
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:52 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:34 pm

I think that the A339NEO and A321NEOLR will be the core of TAP future in long haul but maybe we could see a small number of a bigger airplane (A359 would be nice) if in the future they have the market for it.
 
dredgy
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:48 pm

I hope one day they do a RTW fare similar to Lufthansas/Austrian/Swiss (though they'll likely need an Asian destination for that to work) I booked a Lufthansa RTW fare and while intra-European legs were on TAP, I am still annoyed I could not make use of TAPs very good connections to secondary cities in Brazi as well as Venezuela.I guess the market would be too small, but I really wanted a direct flight to Belem instead of having to go via Frankfurt and Sao Paulo :p

But in seriousness, I think their strategy of a "low cost full service carrier" is a good one and so far seems to be doing good for them. Their widebody fleet needs urgent replacing, which they're doing, and the premium cabins on their shorthaul also need a refurb (seriously, their E190s use the exact same seats in business as economy! Same pitch and everything iirc)
 
Bostrom
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:57 pm

dredgy wrote:
But in seriousness, I think their strategy of a "low cost full service carrier" is a good one and so far seems to be doing good for them. Their widebody fleet needs urgent replacing, which they're doing, and the premium cabins on their shorthaul also need a refurb (seriously, their E190s use the exact same seats in business as economy! Same pitch and everything iirc)


Is there any European airline that has special seats in business on short haul flights? Some will give you a few extra cm legroom, but all airlines I've encountered uses the same seats in business and economy.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2044
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:23 pm

PortugalAviator wrote:
Just been hearing that TAP's been doing well in 2017 but I noticed that they seem to have a lack of capacity on the A330 routes to America. Do anyone have any ideas how they can manage on the new A330 Neo's or maybe they can explore a new transatlantic aircraft like the 777X?


They have to be able to fill the capacity on deep off-peak at a profit, sometimes that will mean turning business way in the peaks, but this will, hopefully, also drive up yield. Portugal itself has a very seasonal travel market, so these are problems shared with several other mid-size European airlines, EI being another, with a very similar fleet.
Next flights: MAN-ILD, BCN-LHR-CPT, CPT-LHR-MAN, MAN-ORK-KEF, KEF-ORK-MAN.
 
FlyRow
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:05 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:09 pm

Bostrom wrote:
dredgy wrote:
But in seriousness, I think their strategy of a "low cost full service carrier" is a good one and so far seems to be doing good for them. Their widebody fleet needs urgent replacing, which they're doing, and the premium cabins on their shorthaul also need a refurb (seriously, their E190s use the exact same seats in business as economy! Same pitch and everything iirc)


Is there any European airline that has special seats in business on short haul flights? Some will give you a few extra cm legroom, but all airlines I've encountered uses the same seats in business and economy.


Air serbia i believe, ba Midhaul 321 if you get them on a short flight, same if you get a replacement in the for of a pair of air Berlin 320's in abu dhabi mode. Plus the odd widebody on shorthaul, but that doesnt count.
F70-F100-RJ85-RJ70-E190-319-320-321-733-734-735-737-738-752-753-763-764-772-744-380
 
LXwing
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:32 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:16 pm

airbazar wrote:
As it is they've already started cutting down JFK and BOS for the upcoming Winter schedule and those are their 2 largest markets in the U.S.

Where did your hear that? AFAIK no reduction is planned for JFK or BOS besides what is usual. JFK should remain daily and BOS reduces to 5 weekly. As for the biggest markets in NA, I think MIA is bigger than BOS.
 
dredgy
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:50 am

Bostrom wrote:
dredgy wrote:
But in seriousness, I think their strategy of a "low cost full service carrier" is a good one and so far seems to be doing good for them. Their widebody fleet needs urgent replacing, which they're doing, and the premium cabins on their shorthaul also need a refurb (seriously, their E190s use the exact same seats in business as economy! Same pitch and everything iirc)


Is there any European airline that has special seats in business on short haul flights? Some will give you a few extra cm legroom, but all airlines I've encountered uses the same seats in business and economy.


I don't fly intra-European business that often, but I've had a few that use 3 standard seats divided into 2, which is fine. TAP is the only one in my limited experience that uses the exact same seats. Booked to fly LH and TAP again in business intra europe, so will soon find out more soon!
 
VC10er
Posts: 2737
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:39 am

I haven't flown TAP in many years. I used to fly them just after VARIG died to go to Europe from Rio for work. Business Class was slightly less that fine. Or "not that good" the seat, about the same as LH's angled seat (LHbwas pretty but not comfortable either) over night in an angled seat was easily suffered. Then I'd connect onwards. Last month I flew them in business on an A319 for a 3 hour flight, (yes, an economy seat but w more space and food)in and it was excellent. I would love to try their new International Business Class because I have a feeling it's pretty good today.
Fernando Pinto (TAP's CEO) was at VARIG when we (at Landor) did the new VARIG livery and while I personally never met him, my colleagues did and they LOVED him: wicket smart and very nice.
Given what people I respect said about him gives me faith he's been doing a good job at TAP.
LAST: the problem with TAP, is sort of NOT TAP's fault. People (Americans) don't have the same lust to visit Portugal as they do many other parts of Europe. I think Portugal is yet to be fully discovered! Lisbon is a fabulous city in so many ways. I think TAP's new ads "Stop in Lisbon on the way to Rome, Paris etc) is brilliant. I believe if people stopped for 2 days in Lisbon they'd fall in love and go back one day and do Portugal top to bottom.
The hotel in Lisbon I recently stayed in I could have moved into and stayed the rest of my life!
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
Bostrom
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:17 pm

dredgy wrote:
I don't fly intra-European business that often, but I've had a few that use 3 standard seats divided into 2, which is fine. TAP is the only one in my limited experience that uses the exact same seats. Booked to fly LH and TAP again in business intra europe, so will soon find out more soon!


All intra-european flights I've been has used the exact same seats in the whole cabin. Some will block the middle seat in the premium cabin, and some will give the passengers in the front a bit of extra legroom. But apart from that, the hard product has been the same as in economy.
 
airbazar
Posts: 7739
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:48 am

LXwing wrote:
airbazar wrote:
As it is they've already started cutting down JFK and BOS for the upcoming Winter schedule and those are their 2 largest markets in the U.S.

Where did your hear that? AFAIK no reduction is planned for JFK or BOS besides what is usual. JFK should remain daily and BOS reduces to 5 weekly. As for the biggest markets in NA, I think MIA is bigger than BOS.

In the OAG thread. JFK being suspended for the Winter and BOS reduced.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1367287
dredgy wrote:
But in seriousness, I think their strategy of a "low cost full service carrier" is a good one and so far seems to be doing good for them. Their widebody fleet needs urgent replacing, which they're doing, and the premium cabins on their shorthaul also need a refurb (seriously, their E190s use the exact same seats in business as economy! Same pitch and everything iirc)

As others have pointed out, it is extremely rare to find a J/F seat that is different than Y in European short haul routes on any airline. TP is not any different.
 
santos
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:46 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:08 am

To AirBazar,

Further updates were done that same week and JFK-LIS is back to it's normal schedule and not cut for the winter like it was posted before.


TP is also leasing 4x A330-900neo and an additional A320neo from ALC.
 
continental004
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:53 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:38 am

VC10er wrote:
. People (Americans) don't have the same lust to visit Portugal as they do many other parts of Europe. I think Portugal is yet to be fully discovered! Lisbon is a fabulous city in so many ways.


and I hope it stays that way and doesn't become a Venice, Rome, or Barcelona swamped with obnoxious American tourists.
 
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bwest
Posts: 1125
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:54 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:03 am

FlyRow wrote:
Air serbia i believe, ba Midhaul 321 if you get them on a short flight, same if you get a replacement in the for of a pair of air Berlin 320's in abu dhabi mode. Plus the odd widebody on shorthaul, but that doesnt count.

Unfortunately Air Serbia has removed their excellent J seats. Aeroflot and Tarom do still have different seats.
I love my Airport Job! :)
 
rbrunner
Posts: 576
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:13 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:49 am

dredgy wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
dredgy wrote:
But in seriousness, I think their strategy of a "low cost full service carrier" is a good one and so far seems to be doing good for them. Their widebody fleet needs urgent replacing, which they're doing, and the premium cabins on their shorthaul also need a refurb (seriously, their E190s use the exact same seats in business as economy! Same pitch and everything iirc)


Is there any European airline that has special seats in business on short haul flights? Some will give you a few extra cm legroom, but all airlines I've encountered uses the same seats in business and economy.


I don't fly intra-European business that often, but I've had a few that use 3 standard seats divided into 2, which is fine. TAP is the only one in my limited experience that uses the exact same seats. Booked to fly LH and TAP again in business intra europe, so will soon find out more soon!


Your experience will very much depend on whether you catch a TAP frame whose interior has been done recently or not. Some have been updated, some haven´t yet. I know people who travelled on 18 year old frames and said: I just travelled on a brand new TAP A320.
 
JJMilk
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:09 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:15 am

With regards to TAP's expansion, anyone can clarify why they do not fly direct to JHB?
Surely with a large community in the country, they would have a demand?
 
OGLOBAL
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:16 am

They need to improve their service they are horrible . flew with them from lisbon to vienna they offered a snack service but we had to line all the way to the back to actually get it flight attendants won't service they are extremely rude with a lot of attitude
 
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OA940
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:18 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:24 am

The 777X is colossal for them. Maybe the 787-10, but that too seems big and TAP has already committed to the A330neo
A350/CSeries = bae
 
rbrunner
Posts: 576
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:13 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:37 am

OGLOBAL wrote:
They need to improve their service they are horrible . flew with them from lisbon to vienna they offered a snack service but we had to line all the way to the back to actually get it flight attendants won't service they are extremely rude with a lot of attitude

You were clearly unlucky. I fly TAP once or twice a year (every year!!!). They're not great, but they're not bad either. And usually polite!
 
grjplanes
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:52 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:11 pm

JJMilk wrote:
With regards to TAP's expansion, anyone can clarify why they do not fly direct to JHB?
Surely with a large community in the country, they would have a demand?

Not very certain about the community in Johor Baru, Malaysia...but presuming you mean JNB...Johannesburg, then yes there is demand, but lots of options...TAAG taking a lot of traffic between SA and Portugal. Probably low yielding. Maybe sometime in the future TAP will return to JNB, if they can also offer good 1-stop options to Europe and North America
 
Kikko19
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:12 pm

i'd like to see them to HAV, low yield, i know but would be likely the shortest trip from Cuba and could connect many cities, double daily would do with a332 ... 9:30 likely tha a321LR wouldn't make it.
 
airbazar
Posts: 7739
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:23 pm

santos wrote:
To AirBazar,
Further updates were done that same week and JFK-LIS is back to it's normal schedule and not cut for the winter like it was posted before.

That's great to hear. I was a little surprised when I heard the news.

continental004 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
. People (Americans) don't have the same lust to visit Portugal as they do many other parts of Europe. I think Portugal is yet to be fully discovered! Lisbon is a fabulous city in so many ways.


and I hope it stays that way and doesn't become a Venice, Rome, or Barcelona swamped with obnoxious American tourists.

No longer true. Portugal is now the "it" destination for Americans. Yes, it's nowhere on the level of Paris or Rome, but there's a reason why TP is scrambling every airplane it can to start routes to the U.S. Having said that, I find the type of Brits who visit Portugal to be significantly more obnoxious than the Americans. Frankly, maybe because I'm a Portuguese living in the U.S., I find American tourists to be quite pleasant and well behaved.

OGLOBAL wrote:
They need to improve their service they are horrible . flew with them from lisbon to vienna they offered a snack service but we had to line all the way to the back to actually get it flight attendants won't service they are extremely rude with a lot of attitude

You must have been on one of the "reduced crew" flights. They are having crew shortage problems and when a flight operates with a reduced crew, they [the crew] have the option under the current contract of not serving any food and beverages on the flight. Hopefully they'll sort that out for next Summer.
 
MannyV
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:56 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:41 pm

I hope TAP starts a link from Lisbon to Edinburgh. Should be enough demand for pax from Portugal to Scotland and also connections. Easyjet fly twice a week from EDI to LIS, but seems clearly too short capacity.
 
OGLOBAL
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:46 pm

rbrunner wrote:
OGLOBAL wrote:
They need to improve their service they are horrible . flew with them from lisbon to vienna they offered a snack service but we had to line all the way to the back to actually get it flight attendants won't service they are extremely rude with a lot of attitude

You were clearly unlucky. I fly TAP once or twice a year (every year!!!). They're not great, but they're not bad either. And usually polite!


i have to be fair check in process check in staff were polite and amazing just on board it was very weird. for me they are like brussels Airlines but at least with brussels the cabin staff are nice. they weren't rude to me personally but to other passengers of a specific race. the airport though was nice they had lots of food and shopping options
 
OGLOBAL
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:50 pm

airbazar wrote:
santos wrote:
To AirBazar,
Further updates were done that same week and JFK-LIS is back to it's normal schedule and not cut for the winter like it was posted before.

That's great to hear. I was a little surprised when I heard the news.

continental004 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
. People (Americans) don't have the same lust to visit Portugal as they do many other parts of Europe. I think Portugal is yet to be fully discovered! Lisbon is a fabulous city in so many ways.


and I hope it stays that way and doesn't become a Venice, Rome, or Barcelona swamped with obnoxious American tourists.

No longer true. Portugal is now the "it" destination for Americans. Yes, it's nowhere on the level of Paris or Rome, but there's a reason why TP is scrambling every airplane it can to start routes to the U.S. Having said that, I find the type of Brits who visit Portugal to be significantly more obnoxious than the Americans. Frankly, maybe because I'm a Portuguese living in the U.S., I find American tourists to be quite pleasant and well behaved.

OGLOBAL wrote:
They need to improve their service they are horrible . flew with them from lisbon to vienna they offered a snack service but we had to line all the way to the back to actually get it flight attendants won't service they are extremely rude with a lot of attitude

You must have been on one of the "reduced crew" flights. They are having crew shortage problems and when a flight operates with a reduced crew, they [the crew] have the option under the current contract of not serving any food and beverages on the flight. Hopefully they'll sort that out for next Summer.


sorry about double post but just saw this reply now after posting the other one . probably my first leg it was with tap express and the cabin were polite and nice also service provided shortage of staff would make sense but still .. hopefully they solve it fast i like portugal and also tap concept and marketing
 
LXwing
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:32 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:16 am

airbazar wrote:
santos wrote:
To AirBazar,
Further updates were done that same week and JFK-LIS is back to it's normal schedule and not cut for the winter like it was posted before.

That's great to hear. I was a little surprised when I heard the news.


As far as I could understand, the thing is that TAP is changing the JFK-LIS flight number and schedule for W17, thus the current TP208 vanishes to give way to a TP204 still on a daily basis.
The JFK route could never be suspended or even reduced for the winter, as the latest pax numbers on this route show that TAP was able to increase pax on its own flights at the same time that Delta started the route also with great success - an 80% overall increase YOY in July.
 
santos
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:46 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:54 am

I just read online that TAP Portugal will 'change' it's name back to TAP Air Portugal from the 14th of September.
http://www.sapo.pt/noticias/economia/ta ... 1a0a08c9ef
 
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ua900
Posts: 1344
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:14 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:13 am

Bostrom wrote:
Is there any European airline that has special seats in business on short haul flights? Some will give you a few extra cm legroom, but all airlines I've encountered uses the same seats in business and economy.


SU and TK have US domestic first style recliners throughout their mainline fleets.

In addition, TK also runs quite a few regularly scheduled daily flat bed flights to places like London, Paris, Frankfurt or Berlin, for example 3x daily on A330s to Paris, 3x daily on 777/330 to London and at least once daily to TXL, FRA, MUC and DUS on 330s. Not bad for 3-3.5 hour flights.
2017: ARN | CVG | DEN | EWR | FRA | HKG | LAX | ORD | SFO | SIN | TLV | TXL | VIE | ZRH
 
MannyV
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:56 pm

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:21 am

ua900,
I think TP also fly with wide bodies to several European destinations such as Vienna, London Heathrow or Paris. But I think is to make a better use of their WB fleet during the day then anything else.
 
JJMilk
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:09 am

Re: TAP Portugal's Future

Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:38 pm

grjplanes wrote:
JJMilk wrote:
With regards to TAP's expansion, anyone can clarify why they do not fly direct to JHB?
Surely with a large community in the country, they would have a demand?

Not very certain about the community in Johor Baru, Malaysia...but presuming you mean JNB...Johannesburg, then yes there is demand, but lots of options...TAAG taking a lot of traffic between SA and Portugal. Probably low yielding. Maybe sometime in the future TAP will return to JNB, if they can also offer good 1-stop options to Europe and North America


Yes, I meant JNB. Thanks.

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