With the Chicago area being such a big area of the United States there is no South Africa airways service to Chicago. I think Chicago can get a flight to Johannesburg or Accra because there's a lot of African immigrants in Chicagoland that could use this flight. I seen a lot of Kenyan people when I lived in Chicago and there has to be enough to support Nairobi flights.

fsafsx wrote:

With the Chicago area being such a big area of the United States there is no South Africa airways service to Chicago. I think Chicago can get a flight to Johannesburg or Accra because there's a lot of African immigrants in Chicagoland that could use this flight. I seen a lot of Kenyan people when I lived in Chicago and there has to be enough to support Nairobi flights.

I doubt they could get a good share of high yielding traffic that would make such a flight an interesting economic proposition. These days you can pretty much fill a plane anywhere to somewhere. The hard part is filling it at a profit.

Additionally, JNB or CPT are not ideally located as connecting points to other cities in Africa, unless you are traveling to Southern Africa. Nairobi and Addis Ababa are better located as connection centers.

The European airlnes and the ME3 are better positioned to serve this market.

dcajet wrote:

fsafsx wrote:

With the Chicago area being such a big area of the United States there is no South Africa airways service to Chicago. I think Chicago can get a flight to Johannesburg or Accra because there's a lot of African immigrants in Chicagoland that could use this flight. I seen a lot of Kenyan people when I lived in Chicago and there has to be enough to support Nairobi flights.

I doubt they could get a good share of high yielding traffic that would make such a flight an interesting economic proposition. These days you can pretty much fill a plane anywhere to somewhere. The hard part is filling it at a profit.

Additionally, JNB or CPT are not ideally located as connecting points to other cities in Africa, unless you are traveling to Southern Africa. Nairobi and Addis Ababa are better located as connection centers.

The European airlnes and the ME3 are better positioned to serve this market.

Further, financially neither SA nor Kenyan is in a position to try such flights. Ethiopian is the best chance, connecting through DUB or similar.

Those are pretty long flights from JNB or NBO, no?

ORD-JNB would be really long (8,709mi - a good 700mi longer than JNB-JFK), and add to that JNB being hot & high. Would an A346 be able to do this without incurring serious payload penalties?

There are a couple of great bars in Chicago run by South Africans, but that doesn't warrant a flight (this is Chicago, not Detroit which would print money on 10x daily JNB, NBO, ADD).

MIA is a better location. Sure, SA did announce ORD, ET has talked about ORD, and Egypt is part of *, but I just don't see it happening.

I believe SA tried an ORD route to JNB around 10 years ago and pulled after about a year.

bfitzflyer wrote:

I believe SA tried an ORD route to JNB around 10 years ago and pulled after about a year.

SA announced ORD via DKR, but never started the route.

globalcabotage wrote:

bfitzflyer wrote:

I believe SA tried an ORD route to JNB around 10 years ago and pulled after about a year.

SA announced ORD via DKR, but never started the route.

I wonder why because Chicago has a lot of people from senegal gambia

There is already plenty of 1 stop options to Africa from ORD.

Off the top of my head from the US alone there is

JFK-
Lagos (Arik Air) A330-200
Dakar (Delta) 757-200
Casablanca (Royal Air Maroc) 787-8
Accra (Delta) 767-300ER
Johannesburg (South African) A340-600
Cairo (Egyptair) 777-300ER

EWR-
Lome-Addis Ababa (Ethiopian) 787-8

IAD-
Addis Ababa (Ethiopian) 777-300ER/777-200LR/787-8
Accra-Johannesburg (South African) A340-600/A340-300/A330-200/A330-300
Dakar-Johannesburg (South African) A340-600/A340-300/A330-200/A330-300
Casablanca (Royal Air Maroc) 787-8

ATL-
Johannesburg (Delta) 777-200LR
Lagos (Delta) 767-300ER

LAX-
Dublin-Addis Ababa (Ethiopian) 787-8

A nonstop ORD to Africa flight would almost directly overfly IAD or JFK which have plenty of connections to most of the major regions in Africa. Plus there is countless one stop options via Europe.

Also who would fly these routes? Neither United or American has any flights to Africa currently and don't even serve it from their East Coast hubs. South African and Arik Air are in major financial troubles and are in no place to start a risky ULH flight. Egyptair isn't doing great either and Egypt is not a particularly popular destination right now. Royal Air Maroc is doesn't have a lot of room for expansion with their limited long haul fleet and they just increased IAD to daily in the last OAG thread. Kenya Airways doesn't even serve the USA yet and if they did in the future it would certainly be JFK and/or ATL because of their Skyteam Alliance partnership with Delta. Ethiopian is the only oddball candidate but they already serve 3 destinations in the USA plus Toronto. In short its hard to justify ORD-Africa because of geography and lack of interested carriers.

Neither of which will happen anytime soon.

SA is currently on the verge of bankruptcy and does not really next generation aircraft that could make it viable to go nonstop to ORD. Also, there are far bigger fish to fry before ORD, just think of South Florida and places in Europe and Asia.

KQ won't happen in the next decade unless there's a miracle. NBO isn't perfectly located for North American connections either and ORD simply isn't a SkyTeam hub, it's the exact opposite. If anything, we're going to see JFK and on a longshot BOS/DTW (this time I'm being serious)/ATL.

But Chicago doesn't really need African service given the excellent visa-free connection opportunities through Europe to many places in Africa and the direct links from the East Coast. As said before, the only carriers I could see go in is ET and a potential West African hub carrier in a couple of years but that would be a long way to go for the likes of RAM.

dmstorm22 wrote:

ORD-JNB would be really long (8,709mi - a good 700mi longer than JNB-JFK), and add to that JNB being hot & high. Would an A346 be able to do this without incurring serious payload penalties?

Nope

Chicago actually has very few African immigrants. Minneapolis, Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta have way more than Chicago does.

LGAviation wrote:

If anything, we're going to see JFK and on a longshot BOS/DTW (this time I'm being serious)/ATL.

I just researched populations of cities that have skyteam hubs that also have a significant amount of immigrants or first generation families from Kenya, and all of those you've mentioned above, ATL, BOS and DTW would make good candidates for a flight to NBO especially with the SkyTeam influence.

flymco753 wrote:

LGAviation wrote:

If anything, we're going to see JFK and on a longshot BOS/DTW (this time I'm being serious)/ATL.

I just researched populations of cities that have skyteam hubs that also have a significant amount of immigrants or first generation families from Kenya, and all of those you've mentioned above, ATL, BOS and DTW would make good candidates for a flight to NBO especially with the SkyTeam influence.

The city in the US that has the largest Kenya population in the US is actually Dallas. There arent too many metro areas with many Kenyans in the US. The largest Kenyan communities in the US are:

Dallas: 10,000
Boston: 8,000
New York City: 7,000
Minneapolis: 6,000
Atlanta: 6,000
Washington DC: 6,000

Detroit didnt crack 2,000.

Lets be clear though, none of the cities mentioned are going to support service to Kenya based on their Kenyan Populations.

As far the cities with the largest African Immigrant communities:

New York City: 242,000
Washington DC: 222,000
Atlanta: 78,000
Dallas: 75,000
Minneapolis: 74,000
Los Angeles: 71,000
Boston: 68,000
Houston: 67,000
Philadelphia: 53,000
Chicago: 51,000

Detroit has 17,000 African Immigrants.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

[
New York City: 242,000
Washington DC: 222,000
Atlanta: 78,000
Dallas: 75,000
Minneapolis: 74,000
Los Angeles: 71,000
Boston: 68,000
Houston: 67,000
Philadelphia: 53,000
Chicago: 51,000

Detroit has 17,000 African Immigrants.

But cities don't say much. Massachusetts has over 50,000 Cape Verdeans. They just don't all live in Boston.

Back to the OP, If SA would start any new route to the U.S. it would have to be MIA.

fsafsx wrote:

globalcabotage wrote:

bfitzflyer wrote:

I believe SA tried an ORD route to JNB around 10 years ago and pulled after about a year.

SA announced ORD via DKR, but never started the route.

I wonder why because Chicago has a lot of people from senegal gambia

Because 'a lot of people from XXX' doesn't equate to profitable yields capable of offsetting the expense of a nonstop ultra-long haul route.

We at a.net are back with the "I like 2 cities/countries so I think there should be a connection between them"

No will never happen

The location makes no sense for a non-stop. I also don't think there is a market even close to large enough to want to pay the premium for a non-stop. I am not sure i would want a non-stop that is really far, certainly not in coach!

jbs2886 wrote:

dcajet wrote:

fsafsx wrote:

With the Chicago area being such a big area of the United States there is no South Africa airways service to Chicago. I think Chicago can get a flight to Johannesburg or Accra because there's a lot of African immigrants in Chicagoland that could use this flight. I seen a lot of Kenyan people when I lived in Chicago and there has to be enough to support Nairobi flights.

I doubt they could get a good share of high yielding traffic that would make such a flight an interesting economic proposition. These days you can pretty much fill a plane anywhere to somewhere. The hard part is filling it at a profit.

Additionally, JNB or CPT are not ideally located as connecting points to other cities in Africa, unless you are traveling to Southern Africa. Nairobi and Addis Ababa are better located as connection centers.

The European airlnes and the ME3 are better positioned to serve this market.

Further, financially neither SA nor Kenyan is in a position to try such flights. Ethiopian is the best chance, connecting through DUB or similar.

Or LFW, which is where the flight to EWR stops. I'm surprised that ET500/1 isn't shifted to operate via LFW.

As for the OP...JNB to anywhere in the USA other than JFK nonstop is not possible without a stop somewhere (even JFK takes a payload hit in the winter on an A346 maximum range route).

fsafsx wrote:

globalcabotage wrote:

bfitzflyer wrote:

I believe SA tried an ORD route to JNB around 10 years ago and pulled after about a year.

SA announced ORD via DKR, but never started the route.

I wonder why because Chicago has a lot of people from senegal gambia

They actually dont. The Senegalese and Gambian populations in Chicagoland combined add up to less than 2,000.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the OP...JNB to anywhere in the USA other than JFK nonstop is not possible without a stop somewhere (even JFK takes a payload hit in the winter on an A346 maximum range route).

MIA? ATL? Didn't SA operate those at some point in time in the past, non stop from JNB?

SA needs to put its house in order before it can begin experimenting with new service.

KQ needs to get all of its authorizations to fly to the US, and once it does, it'll likely fly into a Skyteam hub first before trying anytning else: it needs the DL feed. It also has major financial issues that it is trying to overcome, and a new unproven service may not be in the cards.

Whoever said 10 daily flights to Detroit need to stop smoking the good stuff.

Having a large population from country X in city Y means nothing, especially for the African diaspora. The diaspora are generally working in low income earning jobs and don't travel back to their homelands as often as one might imagine: some are barely making ends meet, or are remitting most of their earnings which do not allow for a minimum $1200 airfare and more than that in shopping ahead/spending money.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

dcajet wrote:

I doubt they could get a good share of high yielding traffic that would make such a flight an interesting economic proposition. These days you can pretty much fill a plane anywhere to somewhere. The hard part is filling it at a profit.

Additionally, JNB or CPT are not ideally located as connecting points to other cities in Africa, unless you are traveling to Southern Africa. Nairobi and Addis Ababa are better located as connection centers.

The European airlnes and the ME3 are better positioned to serve this market.

Further, financially neither SA nor Kenyan is in a position to try such flights. Ethiopian is the best chance, connecting through DUB or similar.

Or LFW, which is where the flight to EWR stops. I'm surprised that ET500/1 isn't shifted to operate via LFW.

ET500/501 will not shift via LFW, for it does not require additional loads from LFW in the same way that EWR does. EWR service is reliant on West African traffic fed by ASKY, while the existing IAD service is doing well ex-ADD. If anything, future capacity increases to IAD could see new frequencies via LFW.

ET's CEO has been on the record saying that future expansion to the US will be via LFW, with Houston and Chicago as potential target destinations.

dcajet wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the OP...JNB to anywhere in the USA other than JFK nonstop is not possible without a stop somewhere (even JFK takes a payload hit in the winter on an A346 maximum range route).

MIA? ATL? Didn't SA operate those at some point in time in the past, non stop from JNB?

In the past, yes. I doubt nonstop though as to JFK is 6935 nmi nonstop, close to the limit of an A340-600 with the needed reserves. To ATL is 7342 nmi nonstop, and Delta deploys a B77L on that route.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

dcajet wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the OP...JNB to anywhere in the USA other than JFK nonstop is not possible without a stop somewhere (even JFK takes a payload hit in the winter on an A346 maximum range route).

MIA? ATL? Didn't SA operate those at some point in time in the past, non stop from JNB?

In the past, yes. I doubt nonstop though as to JFK is 6935 nmi nonstop, close to the limit of an A340-600 with the needed reserves. To ATL is 7342 nmi nonstop, and Delta deploys a B77L on that route.

SA operated JNB-CPT-MIA-CPT-JNB.

MalevTU134 wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

dcajet wrote:

MIA? ATL? Didn't SA operate those at some point in time in the past, non stop from JNB?

In the past, yes. I doubt nonstop though as to JFK is 6935 nmi nonstop, close to the limit of an A340-600 with the needed reserves. To ATL is 7342 nmi nonstop, and Delta deploys a B77L on that route.

SA operated JNB-CPT-MIA-CPT-JNB.

With what equipment? An A343 with blocked seats? Or a 747SP?

aemoreira1981 wrote:

MalevTU134 wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

In the past, yes. I doubt nonstop though as to JFK is 6935 nmi nonstop, close to the limit of an A340-600 with the needed reserves. To ATL is 7342 nmi nonstop, and Delta deploys a B77L on that route.

SA operated JNB-CPT-MIA-CPT-JNB.

With what equipment? An A343 with blocked seats? Or a 747SP?

744?

aemoreira1981 wrote:

MalevTU134 wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

In the past, yes. I doubt nonstop though as to JFK is 6935 nmi nonstop, close to the limit of an A340-600 with the needed reserves. To ATL is 7342 nmi nonstop, and Delta deploys a B77L on that route.

SA operated JNB-CPT-MIA-CPT-JNB.

With what equipment? An A343 with blocked seats? Or a 747SP?

Can't remember for sure, but definitely not a 747SP, it was after that era. I would bet on an A343.

My wrong, dcajet is correct, as so often...
Found it on departedflights.com. OAG from 1996 has it 4 times weekly on a 744.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

In the past, yes. I doubt nonstop though as to JFK is 6935 nmi nonstop, close to the limit of an A340-600 with the needed reserves. To ATL is 7342 nmi nonstop, and Delta deploys a B77L on that route.

SA operated JNB-ATL-JNB non-stop with an A340-600 for several years before they joined Star Alliance. JNB-ATL is 7,334 nmi.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

dcajet wrote:

Or LFW, which is where the flight to EWR stops. I'm surprised that ET500/1 isn't shifted to operate via LFW.

Why would ET change nonstop IAD-ADD to operate IAD-LFW-ADD?

AF022 wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

Why would ET change nonstop IAD-ADD to operate IAD-LFW-ADD?

When did that route go nonstop?

aemoreira1981 wrote:

AF022 wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Why would ET change nonstop IAD-ADD to operate IAD-LFW-ADD?

When did that route go nonstop?

ADD-IAD stops in DUB but the return is nonstop.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Chicago actually has very few African immigrants. Minneapolis, Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta have way more than Chicago does.

True statement. If at all, South African Caucasian are the biggest settlement, but nothing like south Florida.

Some really great South African bars on the N/NE side, but not enough for a charter flight. The