hinckley
Posts: 291
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:43 pm

aeromoe wrote:
hinckley wrote:
but it was crazy-expensive


Care to share? Just curious as people have different definitions of crazy expensive.


I have to honest - it was in 2008 and don't remember exactly, but I think it was in the $20k range for two people, all inclusive (Friday thru a Sunday night red-eye). What I do remember is that my brother and I were two of maybe ten "special guests" traveling with the Pats that weekend. The other eight were all commercial sponsors of the team, so I had the distinct impression that I was the only one who actually paid hard money for the trip! That kind of added to the 1x perspective that I have.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 15652
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:03 pm

MR27122 wrote:
FINAL POINT, HOW CAN ANBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WHO SPENDS DEDICATES TIME TO THIS WEBSITE NOT BE A J-E-T-S JETS, JETS, JETS FAN!!!!!!!!!!!

I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who has been fated to become a Jets fan. It's been a mostly miserable 47 years. I am old enough to have watched the '69 Super Bowl as a school kid, on a portable black and white TV in my uncle's new home. I can't imagine what it would have been like to have become a Jets fan all the way back then. I'd probably have sworn off the NFL and found something better to do with my time.

MR27122 wrote:
I'm leaning heavily towards my hiatus year from the J-E-T-S being an LA Chargers or Oakland Raiders (especially with the game in Mexico City) Below is 2019 for a Super Bowl to be played in 2020 @ The Hard Rock Stadium in Miami.

Luke, if you only knew the power of the dark side...

Antarius wrote:
Which was a mistake by both Revelation and I.

Guilty as charged. One thing you can count on from a.net is someone correcting any mistakes, usually in a snarky and/or condescending way, and this time is no different.

sgbroimp wrote:
Two 26 year old aircraft run by "rookie" team. Yes, one for backup for sure if they need near perfect dispatch reliability, which they probably do.

Yet they're only flying one round trip a dozen or so times per year. Should be manageable even by rookies, no? It's not the same threshold has needing to crank out back-to-back flights week after week after week in airline service.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:22 pm

Amazing paint job on these aircraft. Just keep Brady away from the tires and Billicheck away from the IFE system.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 15652
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:35 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
Amazing paint job on these aircraft. Just keep Brady away from the tires and Billicheck away from the IFE system.

If Brady is in charge of the catering, there will be a lot of avocado smoothies being served...
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
airbazar
Posts: 7759
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:02 pm

ordell wrote:
Oh I do love that tail painting.

I hope they're just decals because it will change in 8 months :)

Newbiepilot wrote:
the maintenance and operating costs will be millions per year.

I'd be surprised if they will actually own these. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN got the wording wrong and these are leased, or some sort of sale/leaseback deal. It makes no financial sense for a NFL team to own a plane, let alone 2 and the Krafts have shown over and over that they don't like to throw money around.
 
nitepilot79
Posts: 1008
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:10 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:03 pm

What? No cheatline?? :biggrin:
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 15652
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:57 pm

nitepilot79 wrote:
What? No cheatline?? :biggrin:

A simple equipment violation, says I.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:02 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Looks like ex-DL or AA 767s. Dynamic's current 767s are all ex-BA with 8 doors. The planes will also likely transport the NE Revolution MLS team (same owner).


Believe it or not, MLS requires all teams to travel commercial ...
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:38 pm

wjcandee wrote:
The other problem with using Dynamic as a Part 121 CMI provider is that it tanked last month. If the rumors are true (and I don't think they are likely to be), it was the right idea but the wrong operator. As I said above, Atlas and ATI come to mind: both are longstanding, profitable, solvent carriers; both have a bunch of 767 pilots available, they have flight attendants, they are certified to carry pax, and they have the kind of safety culture that you want flying around hundreds of millions of dollars of human capital.

They are trying to restructure, having been through like 3 CFOs in 4 years, 3 CEOs, etc. Ken Woolley (co-owner of Swift Air and KMW leasing) and Paul Kraus (of Jet Midwest) are the owners of the thing, and they're getting hammered from lawsuits over that fireball at JFK a while back (which I would have thought would be covered by insurance, but...). Woolley gave it a $6 million DIP loan to keep going in bankruptcy, but we'll see. There as WSJ Pro article about how the creditors think it's gonna liquidate, but time will tell.


Given that Dynamic's owners are also its lessors...I wouldn't be surprised to see the 767s shifted to the Swift Air AOC if push comes to shove. Swift Air is a much more stable charter outfit.
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6447
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:42 pm

wjcandee wrote:
MO11 wrote:
They are two ex-AA airplanes (N366 and N367, which will become N36NE and N225NE) . There are advertisements on the web for mechanics, flight attendants, etc.


N366AA and N39367. Previously owned by Unical Aviation; now owned by Team 125, Inc., with, as you say, those tail number changes pending.

Somebody is getting fired for that leaked photo...


I hope these reg's will be trackable on flightaware.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2591
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:10 pm

I don't think DL is getting out of the sports charter business like AA is said to be. I really can't see how this is going to be a sound plan for the Pat's with their very small travel needs. Now I baseball team I could see it being a smart move.
 
slider
Posts: 6889
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:17 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
Revelation wrote:
MR27122 wrote:
FINAL POINT, HOW CAN ANBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WHO SPENDS DEDICATES TIME TO THIS WEBSITE NOT BE A J-E-T-S JETS, JETS, JETS FAN!!!!!!!!!!!

I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who has been fated to become a Jets fan. It's been a mostly miserable 47 years.


Rev- if you haven't seen this series yet, it's a great and utterly hilarious read.

http://deadspin.com/why-your-team-sucks ... 1797496551
 
Antarius
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:26 pm

slider wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
Revelation wrote:
MR27122 wrote:
FINAL POINT, HOW CAN ANBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WHO SPENDS DEDICATES TIME TO THIS WEBSITE NOT BE A J-E-T-S JETS, JETS, JETS FAN!!!!!!!!!!!

I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who has been fated to become a Jets fan. It's been a mostly miserable 47 years.


Rev- if you haven't seen this series yet, it's a great and utterly hilarious read.

http://deadspin.com/why-your-team-sucks ... 1797496551


:rotfl:

I had no idea Hackenberg was that bad.. a little googling and I find that he got kicked out of practice for being unable to break a huddle properly.
2017 : SIN | HKG | LAX | DFW | HOU | IAH | MAF | LBB | DCA | IAD | ORD | BOS | DEN | LHR | MAD | HNL | ITO | OGG | PHX | DOH | JHB | KUL | DEL | BLR | CDG | ORY | NRT | CGK | BTH | ICN | INV | ABZ | LCY | LTN | SFO | PHL
 
727200
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:11 am

Yep, they cheated. Of course you to suspend your believe in basic science. And of course discount that 3 of the 4 Colts balls that were tested were similarly deflated. And discount the fact that deflated balls are a disadvantage. And discount the fact that with properly inflated balls in the second half they performed better. And discount the fact that other teams have been caught red-handed illegally tampering with balls and were let off with a warning, while there was only circumstantial evidence against the Patriots. And discount the fact that differently calibrated needles were used at different points in checking the inflation levels, and the Wells report discounted the game referee's recollection of what was used when in order to create a damning narrative. But yes, if you discount those things, then I guess the Patriots cheated...[/quote]

What about video taping that weeks opponent? I guess the Pats video cameras just happened to pointed at the opposing team they just happen to be playing that week and the cameras were running? Not to mention that almost every team that plays them in Foxboro complains the team headset mysteriously go silent durring the game and almost always when the opposing team has the ball. But then the Pats don't cheat...ya right.
 
B752OS
Posts: 810
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:38 am

727200 wrote:
Yep, they cheated. Of course you to suspend your believe in basic science. And of course discount that 3 of the 4 Colts balls that were tested were similarly deflated. And discount the fact that deflated balls are a disadvantage. And discount the fact that with properly inflated balls in the second half they performed better. And discount the fact that other teams have been caught red-handed illegally tampering with balls and were let off with a warning, while there was only circumstantial evidence against the Patriots. And discount the fact that differently calibrated needles were used at different points in checking the inflation levels, and the Wells report discounted the game referee's recollection of what was used when in order to create a damning narrative. But yes, if you discount those things, then I guess the Patriots cheated...


What about video taping that weeks opponent? I guess the Pats video cameras just happened to pointed at the opposing team they just happen to be playing that week and the cameras were running? Not to mention that almost every team that plays them in Foxboro complains the team headset mysteriously go silent durring the game and almost always when the opposing team has the ball. But then the Pats don't cheat...ya right.[/quote]




It's evident that you know very little about the NFL and what ALL teams were doing regarding filming in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. Please feel free to reference various instances of opposing teams losing their communications while playing in Gillette. Has it happened? Of course. Has it happened in every stadium in the NFL? Yep. Technology can fail sometimes. Anyone that actually read into the whole "deflategate" saga (not just the headlines or the BS the NFL leaked) would know that it was a huge sham.

Anyways, these planes look great and I going to guess more teams will follow. Having a plane configured in very low density configuration will be popular with players.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2111
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:46 am

blockski wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Just for a point of reference, you need around 65+ seats for a MLB team. 30-35 seats for a NBAA team and 50 to 60 seats for a NFL team. These numbers are for regular season games. If you are in the playoffs, these numbers go up rapidly.


You need way more than 50-60 seats for an NFL team. The player roster is 53 men alone; then add the coaching staff, medical/training/support staff, the owners themselves, etc. It adds up.

Here's an article talking about traveling with the NY Giants - they regularly had 140 people traveling with the team for away games:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/0 ... 55937.html

Phelan’s department books the year’s hotels before May for the roughly 140 people who travel with the team, a group that includes players, coaches, managers, owners and video and medical staff, among others.


No way 140 people for season road game, at least not for the Hawks. A team will travel the day before the game and usually return right after the game. Some staff, no player of course arrive ahed of game day to get set. All very choreographed of course, and very well organized. Maybe some teams travel with that many, but not team I was familiar with. Guarantee you the owner of the team did not travel with the, He was riding in style in his Global Express, as I suspect the other owners were doing as well:)
 
727200
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:27 am

What about video taping that weeks opponent? I guess the Pats video cameras just happened to pointed at the opposing team they just happen to be playing that week and the cameras were running? Not to mention that almost every team that plays them in Foxboro complains the team headset mysteriously go silent durring the game and almost always when the opposing team has the ball. But then the Pats don't cheat...ya right.[/quote]




It's evident that you know very little about the NFL and what ALL teams were doing regarding filming in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. Please feel free to reference various instances of opposing teams losing their communications while playing in Gillette. Has it happened? Of course. Has it happened in every stadium in the NFL? Yep. Technology can fail sometimes. Anyone that actually read into the whole "deflategate" saga (not just the headlines or the BS the NFL leaked) would know that it was a huge sham.

Anyways, these planes look great and I going to guess more teams will follow. Having a plane configured in very low density configuration will be popular with players.[/quote]

Really? I know very little of the NFL? Perhaps you should do your home work before you make childish statements. Suffice to say I have family members that have played in the NFL, others who worked for front offices of various teams, and I personally have been season ticket holders with several of my classmates in the NFL. So I pretty much can tell you more true stories of what REALY takes place on teams and in the league and not that crap you read on the sports pages that you quote.

Oh, and nice try at changing the topic and blaming all the other teams while the Pats are the only ones caught, but then you don't want to face reality and instead try and shift blame where none exits. Call it like it is, cheating is still cheating.

Oh and at least we agree on one things, nice paint job.
 
hinckley
Posts: 291
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:33 pm

Androol wrote:
Yep, they cheated. Of course you to suspend your believe in basic science. And of course discount that 3 of the 4 Colts balls that were tested were similarly deflated. And discount the fact that deflated balls are a disadvantage. And discount the fact that with properly inflated balls in the second half they performed better. And discount the fact that other teams have been caught red-handed illegally tampering with balls and were let off with a warning, while there was only circumstantial evidence against the Patriots. And discount the fact that differently calibrated needles were used at different points in checking the inflation levels, and the Wells report discounted the game referee's recollection of what was used when in order to create a damning narrative. But yes, if you discount those things, then I guess the Patriots cheated...


727200 wrote:
What about video taping that weeks opponent? I guess the Pats video cameras just happened to pointed at the opposing team they just happen to be playing that week and the cameras were running? Not to mention that almost every team that plays them in Foxboro complains the team headset mysteriously go silent durring the game and almost always when the opposing team has the ball. But then the Pats don't cheat...ya right.


I'll give a perspective from a rabid Pats fan, and a level-headed, knowledgeable person. First, Belichick certainly cheated in the Spygate affair. He's admitted to it. Second, Brady almost certainly cheated in Deflategate. But scratch the surface . . .

Belichick was filming from the sidelines. It's said that it was common practice, but Belichick, as always, was known to push the envelope. Here's what's not widely known (cuz as they say, it doesn't sell newspapers) - it's not illegal to film the opposing team. It's not illegal to steal opposing team's signals. Not then. Not now. What is illegal is filming your opponent from your own sideline (you can do it from elsewhere in the stadium). Apparently, the NFL thinks that if you're filming from your own sideline, you're more likely to use the recording immediately, providing on field coaches with an immediate game day advantage. The NFL found that the Pats were illegally filming from their sideline but that the film was not used during the game. A clear violation, but it wasn't first degree murder. The whole incident then took on a life of its own when Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania took up a ridiculously populist move in the US Senate to investigate the matter. And we wonder why our government doesn't work.

Brady and Deflategate. In my opinion, and believe it or not, in the opinion of most Pats fans (66% in the last Boston Globe poll), Brady cheated and the Wells report got it right. Wells was outrageously sloppy in the study, but they somehow stumbled onto the right conclusion. Brady made it known how he wanted his footballs inflated and it got done. He almost certainly didn't know how it was done. He almost certainly didn't orchestrate some grand plan. But he got what he wanted. And when he didn't, he blasted the equipment personnel (who he claimed to not know despite a hundred texts to them on the phone he didn't destroy). Is there sufficient evidence to convict him in court? Nope. Doesn't need to be. This is a workplace incident and CBA or not, I've never needed to go to a grand jury to take disciplinary action in my place of work. As a Pats fan, I hate that Brady did this, especially because it's so ridiculously petty - the equivalent of driving 65 in a 55 mph zone. But driving 65 is breaking the rules and so is manipulating the inflation of your footballs. But what's even more ridiculous is that the NFL handled the affair so ineptly that Brady became the sympathetic party in the whole affair and the NFL became the incompetent, mean-spirited bad guy. Somehow, my pretty-boy, super-model-marrying, all-time all-time, G.O.A.T. of a quarterback came out on top of this one. Crazy.

Now . . . back to our A.net sponsor and discussion of those beautiful planes (without a cheatline lol) . . .
 
nitepilot79
Posts: 1008
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:10 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:50 pm

Revelation wrote:
nitepilot79 wrote:
What? No cheatline?? :biggrin:

A simple equipment violation, says I.


What? No equipment violation line?? :mrgreen:

Alright, I'll stop now.
 
Antarius
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:25 pm

hinckley wrote:
Androol wrote:
Yep, they cheated. Of course you to suspend your believe in basic science. And of course discount that 3 of the 4 Colts balls that were tested were similarly deflated. And discount the fact that deflated balls are a disadvantage. And discount the fact that with properly inflated balls in the second half they performed better. And discount the fact that other teams have been caught red-handed illegally tampering with balls and were let off with a warning, while there was only circumstantial evidence against the Patriots. And discount the fact that differently calibrated needles were used at different points in checking the inflation levels, and the Wells report discounted the game referee's recollection of what was used when in order to create a damning narrative. But yes, if you discount those things, then I guess the Patriots cheated...


727200 wrote:
What about video taping that weeks opponent? I guess the Pats video cameras just happened to pointed at the opposing team they just happen to be playing that week and the cameras were running? Not to mention that almost every team that plays them in Foxboro complains the team headset mysteriously go silent durring the game and almost always when the opposing team has the ball. But then the Pats don't cheat...ya right.


I'll give a perspective from a rabid Pats fan, and a level-headed, knowledgeable person. First, Belichick certainly cheated in the Spygate affair. He's admitted to it. Second, Brady almost certainly cheated in Deflategate. But scratch the surface . . .

Belichick was filming from the sidelines. It's said that it was common practice, but Belichick, as always, was known to push the envelope. Here's what's not widely known (cuz as they say, it doesn't sell newspapers) - it's not illegal to film the opposing team. It's not illegal to steal opposing team's signals. Not then. Not now. What is illegal is filming your opponent from your own sideline (you can do it from elsewhere in the stadium). Apparently, the NFL thinks that if you're filming from your own sideline, you're more likely to use the recording immediately, providing on field coaches with an immediate game day advantage. The NFL found that the Pats were illegally filming from their sideline but that the film was not used during the game. A clear violation, but it wasn't first degree murder. The whole incident then took on a life of its own when Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania took up a ridiculously populist move in the US Senate to investigate the matter. And we wonder why our government doesn't work.

Brady and Deflategate. In my opinion, and believe it or not, in the opinion of most Pats fans (66% in the last Boston Globe poll), Brady cheated and the Wells report got it right. Wells was outrageously sloppy in the study, but they somehow stumbled onto the right conclusion. Brady made it known how he wanted his footballs inflated and it got done. He almost certainly didn't know how it was done. He almost certainly didn't orchestrate some grand plan. But he got what he wanted. And when he didn't, he blasted the equipment personnel (who he claimed to not know despite a hundred texts to them on the phone he didn't destroy). Is there sufficient evidence to convict him in court? Nope. Doesn't need to be. This is a workplace incident and CBA or not, I've never needed to go to a grand jury to take disciplinary action in my place of work. As a Pats fan, I hate that Brady did this, especially because it's so ridiculously petty - the equivalent of driving 65 in a 55 mph zone. But driving 65 is breaking the rules and so is manipulating the inflation of your footballs. But what's even more ridiculous is that the NFL handled the affair so ineptly that Brady became the sympathetic party in the whole affair and the NFL became the incompetent, mean-spirited bad guy. Somehow, my pretty-boy, super-model-marrying, all-time all-time, G.O.A.T. of a quarterback came out on top of this one. Crazy.

Now . . . back to our A.net sponsor and discussion of those beautiful planes (without a cheatline lol) . . .


Good post.

To me, the largest issue with these problems is how the NFL handled them. Similar violations by other teams are handed small fines or a slap on the wrist. Heck, Denver got caught TWICE for Salary cap violations over multiple years and got a relatively paltry punishment compared to the one for Deflategate.
2017 : SIN | HKG | LAX | DFW | HOU | IAH | MAF | LBB | DCA | IAD | ORD | BOS | DEN | LHR | MAD | HNL | ITO | OGG | PHX | DOH | JHB | KUL | DEL | BLR | CDG | ORY | NRT | CGK | BTH | ICN | INV | ABZ | LCY | LTN | SFO | PHL
 
hinckley
Posts: 291
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:00 pm

Antarius wrote:
Good post. To me, the largest issue with these problems is how the NFL handled them. Similar violations by other teams are handed small fines or a slap on the wrist. Heck, Denver got caught TWICE for Salary cap violations over multiple years and got a relatively paltry punishment compared to the one for Deflategate.


I'm hesitant to take this thread too far off-topic, but imo, the answer is almost always "all of the above". The NFL handled both situation unbelievably poorly, as they have with other such matters (Ray Rice??!!). But the Pats have a very poor record of crisis management and they usually start by coming out punching. Compare Deflategate to the Atlanta Noisegate affair. Arthur Blank admitted to it immediately and cooperated fully with the NFL investigation. He got a slap in the wrist. Can you imagine how Deflategate would have played out if Brady came out in the first week and said something like, "My guys know how I like my footballs inflated. We're a family here, and if they did something wrong to help me, I stand behind them and take full responsibility . . . " It's Corporate Crisis Management 101 and I don't think the Kraft Organization ever took that class.
 
justloveplanes
Posts: 875
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:38 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:56 pm

32andBelow wrote:
And when your private 767 goes tech then what? When your Delta 767 goes tech, delta gives you a new 767 ASAP before winding up on the news.


Probably why they are buying two....
 
manny
Posts: 548
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:40 pm

Revelation wrote:
As usual, the Pats out-class the J-E-T-E Jets!

Image

versus:

Image


In this instance the JETS did not spend a dime and most likely made some marketing dollar on that move. Advantage JETS.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 15652
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:10 pm

manny wrote:
In this instance the JETS did not spend a dime and most likely made some marketing dollar on that move. Advantage JETS.

That's fine, the J-E-T-E need every advantage they can find these days! :biggrin:
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
SelseyBill
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:15 pm

Squeezix wrote:
Sure hope the tires are inflated...


.......I did wonder how many posts it would take to sneak in a 'deflategate' reference.

Well done 'squeezix'.......
 
MR27122
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 3:00 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:27 pm

Antarius wrote:
hinckley wrote:
Androol wrote:
Yep, they cheated. Of course you to suspend your believe in basic science. And of course discount that 3 of the 4 Colts balls that were tested were similarly deflated. And discount the fact that deflated balls are a disadvantage. And discount the fact that with properly inflated balls in the second half they performed better. And discount the fact that other teams have been caught red-handed illegally tampering with balls and were let off with a warning, while there was only circumstantial evidence against the Patriots. And discount the fact that differently calibrated needles were used at different points in checking the inflation levels, and the Wells report discounted the game referee's recollection of what was used when in order to create a damning narrative. But yes, if you discount those things, then I guess the Patriots cheated...


727200 wrote:
What about video taping that weeks opponent? I guess the Pats video cameras just happened to pointed at the opposing team they just happen to be playing that week and the cameras were running? Not to mention that almost every team that plays them in Foxboro complains the team headset mysteriously go silent durring the game and almost always when the opposing team has the ball. But then the Pats don't cheat...ya right.


I'll give a perspective from a rabid Pats fan, and a level-headed, knowledgeable person. First, Belichick certainly cheated in the Spygate affair. He's admitted to it. Second, Brady almost certainly cheated in Deflategate. But scratch the surface . . .

Belichick was filming from the sidelines. It's said that it was common practice, but Belichick, as always, was known to push the envelope. Here's what's not widely known (cuz as they say, it doesn't sell newspapers) - it's not illegal to film the opposing team. It's not illegal to steal opposing team's signals. Not then. Not now. What is illegal is filming your opponent from your own sideline (you can do it from elsewhere in the stadium). Apparently, the NFL thinks that if you're filming from your own sideline, you're more likely to use the recording immediately, providing on field coaches with an immediate game day advantage. The NFL found that the Pats were illegally filming from their sideline but that the film was not used during the game. A clear violation, but it wasn't first degree murder. The whole incident then took on a life of its own when Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania took up a ridiculously populist move in the US Senate to investigate the matter. And we wonder why our government doesn't work.

Brady and Deflategate. In my opinion, and believe it or not, in the opinion of most Pats fans (66% in the last Boston Globe poll), Brady cheated and the Wells report got it right. Wells was outrageously sloppy in the study, but they somehow stumbled onto the right conclusion. Brady made it known how he wanted his footballs inflated and it got done. He almost certainly didn't know how it was done. He almost certainly didn't orchestrate some grand plan. But he got what he wanted. And when he didn't, he blasted the equipment personnel (who he claimed to not know despite a hundred texts to them on the phone he didn't destroy). Is there sufficient evidence to convict him in court? Nope. Doesn't need to be. This is a workplace incident and CBA or not, I've never needed to go to a grand jury to take disciplinary action in my place of work. As a Pats fan, I hate that Brady did this, especially because it's so ridiculously petty - the equivalent of driving 65 in a 55 mph zone. But driving 65 is breaking the rules and so is manipulating the inflation of your footballs. But what's even more ridiculous is that the NFL handled the affair so ineptly that Brady became the sympathetic party in the whole affair and the NFL became the incompetent, mean-spirited bad guy. Somehow, my pretty-boy, super-model-marrying, all-time all-time, G.O.A.T. of a quarterback came out on top of this one. Crazy.

Now . . . back to our A.net sponsor and discussion of those beautiful planes (without a cheatline lol) . . .


Good post.

To me, the largest issue with these problems is how the NFL handled them. Similar violations by other teams are handed small fines or a slap on the wrist. Heck, Denver got caught TWICE for Salary cap violations over multiple years and got a relatively paltry punishment compared to the one for Deflategate.



Agreed...interesting post. The NFL's egregious sanctions, specifically the 1st round draft pick that was forfeited, were fantastically harsh...in fact they were ridiculous. I'm a J-E-T-S fan & deflategate was pettiness. Video taping? That was Eric Mangini as a 1st yr HC NY Jets coach being petty, and the result was harsh sanctions & a perception of cheating. I despise the Patriots. However, I also embrace the fact that we possess the good fortune of seeing the best NFL QB in history & best NFL HC in history in "the moment". Malcolm Butler jumping the route on the 1 yard during a 1st down pass play to seal an SB win...that "ain't" cheating, it is phenomenal coaching & skill. TB12 being down 21-3 @ halftime of SB 51 & 28-9 @ end of 3rd quarter orchestrating the most epic SB comeback of all time...not cheating...skill, determination, resilience, and absolutely nothing to do w/ "luck"----no, Patriot "luck" is actually "WHEN PREPARATION MEETS OPPORTUNITY....AND THE EXECUTE!!!".

As for the plane(s)----I alluded to the 2018 season because it is very travel atypical due to AFC playing NFC East & AFC South(?) & the Patriots never cross the Mississippi River. Anybody understand why two a/c were supposedly bought? If the 2018 Season resembles past seasons...the Patriots as a TEAM have 1 pre-season flight, 8 regular season flights, 0 playoff flights, and 1 flight to the SB in Atlanta. I understand a 737 for NBA teams, 41 away games (but, Knicks aren't flying to Brooklyn to play Nets, etc). I understand Baseball at 81 away games. I also understand that an NFL pre-season game will equate to at least 4x the ratings audience of any other sport....but, 2 767's for 9 definitive "away" games is akin to simply not having the time to burn all the money being earned because it's coming in too quickly.
 
User avatar
LA704
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:04 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:41 pm

This makes me dream about a 787 for the Seahawks...

When will the next team follow the patriot's path? I guess this flexibility is unbeatable and worth millions.
318 319 320 321 332 343 722 731 732 735 73G 742 744 752 762 763 77W M11
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:58 pm

The Jets should switch to an Air Tanker A330 to match the motto of the season...just tank, baby!
 
igneous
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:11 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:35 am

RL757PVD wrote:
Lets hope they have to repaint the tail within the next year :)

I once flew the B6 NY Jets plane out of PVD, for which the captain apologized and ensured us that the tires were properly inflated.

Thats going to be a nice sight on the ramp at PVD this fall, I wonder if they will keep it there all week or ferry it to an underutilized facility with excess apron like PSM CEF or OQU

Will there be a way to track their flights on flightaware or something like that? I wouldnt mind taking some pics at pvd(or OQU for sure) if I knew they'd be taking off
 
Soxfan
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:50 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:30 pm

I may have missed it in the thread (sorry), but from whom did they get the 767s?
Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
 
Antarius
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:42 pm

Soxfan wrote:
I may have missed it in the thread (sorry), but from whom did they get the 767s?


I believe they are both former American frames
2017 : SIN | HKG | LAX | DFW | HOU | IAH | MAF | LBB | DCA | IAD | ORD | BOS | DEN | LHR | MAD | HNL | ITO | OGG | PHX | DOH | JHB | KUL | DEL | BLR | CDG | ORY | NRT | CGK | BTH | ICN | INV | ABZ | LCY | LTN | SFO | PHL
 
AAvgeek744
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:18 pm

Revelation wrote:
As usual, the Pats out-class the J-E-T-E Jets!

Image

versus:

Image


I'm pretty sure the Pats will have to paint another SB trophy on that tail before the Jets even win a playoff game. :)
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 3690
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:14 pm

manny wrote:

In this instance the JETS did not spend a dime and most likely made some marketing dollar on that move. Advantage JETS.


That's like saying 'Advantage Polar Bear' in that hysterical 'Global Warming' photo of the melting iceberg :rotfl:
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 15652
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:03 pm

Amongst other things, http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2031 ... cal-health gives the rationale behind having two airkraft:

Kraft also detailed why the Patriots purchased two 767s.

"Every hour of the season, from Week 1 to whenever your season is done, is scripted out. Bill [Belichick] can tell you what's going on, and hours matters. If you have a technical difficulty with your plane and you're flying with any of the commercial carriers, they'll have another plane there pretty quick. If you're flying your own plane and you have one, you have to wait until it's fixed," he said in the radio interview.

"We'll fly with technicians and engineers, but having a backup plane in case that happens, and ready to scramble at any moment, was critical. For us, it was the way to do it in a fashion that would ensure the football team would not only have the right type of plane to fly on, but the right type of service so we could maximize time."
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
slider
Posts: 6889
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:34 pm

Pats already having problems with these planes/operator...they took DL to LWB last evening.
 
timf
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 8:36 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:49 pm

slider wrote:
Pats already having problems with these planes/operator...they took DL to LWB last evening.

Are you sure they were even scheduled to use them? A week ago it sounded like they were still hiring crew members. They may not be planning to use them until the regular season.
 
User avatar
pitbosflyer
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:58 pm

Revelation wrote:
I agree about Part 121 and that they probably would be better off using a professional aviation firm to staff and manage the aircraft, but keep in mind the Pats already fly out of PVD and it isn't controlled by Massport. Also the whole point is that US/DL/AA are in general no longer willing to do NFL charters so there needs to be a Plan B. I think the Pats are probably a bit ahead of the curve and as you suggest they may get taught a few lessons, but in general they are quick learners. I would think in a few years they might decide to sub-lease the planes to a professional aviation firm with a contract that makes them available to the Pats and the Kraft Group as needed.


They are ahead of the curve, but only slightly. It is already hard for sports teams to find charters. The airlines are making more money using the planes on scheduled routes. Aircraft utilization is much higher than it has been in the past. A few teams got dropped by AA this year including the Steelers. They will now be flying on Miami Air 737s (hehe) http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/stee ... 1707130146
 
wjcandee
Posts: 6073
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:31 am

More about Part 121. MLW Air owns, among other things, 801DM (the Mav's 757) and 767MW, the luxury charter 767. The way the 767 is operated is that MLW owns it and acts as charter broker for it; it has no FAA authority whatsoever. The aircraft is on Atlas's certificate, and Atlas is the aircraft operator/charter operator for any use of it. You sign a contract with Atlas for your use of it. That means Atlas is responsible for maintaining it, and union Atlas pilots fly it -- and I'm guessing it bids relatively-senior. This is hands-down the safest way for Mike Woolley (an owner of MLW Air and an owner of Dynamic) to do business with it. No get-there-itis, because the Atlas pilots and dispatchers will tell anyone with a big enough ego to charter the thing to F-off if the charterer wants them to do something stupid, and will be protected by their union from retaliation if they do. They will have been through Atlas's training, have a good number of current hours because Atlas is busy, and will regularly go through Atlas's recurrent training. They also will follow Atlas's SOP for everything. That's an aircraft I would put my family on.

I don't know if Atlas has the same arrangement wrt 801DM.

It would behoove the Pats to do the same thing with their aircraft, but, alas, I haven't heard that that's what's going to happen. Among other things, the owning entity is advertising for crews. Big mistake, in my book.

If they want to charter it out, some kind of arrangement with a proper 121 carrier will have to happen, of course.
 
hkcanadaexpat
Posts: 1778
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:33 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:24 am

The Panthers flew this evening CLT-BNA on an AA 763ER (N376AN - old configuration). Flight number AA 9446.
The frame positioned DFW-CLT and BNA-DFW.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 15652
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:52 am

timf wrote:
slider wrote:
Pats already having problems with these planes/operator...they took DL to LWB last evening.

Are you sure they were even scheduled to use them? A week ago it sounded like they were still hiring crew members. They may not be planning to use them until the regular season.

A Pats reporter ( https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/897612665471684608 ) tweets:

Ben Volin‏ Verified account @BenVolin 11h11 hours ago

Patriots didn’t use their new 767 AirKrafts this week because the WV airport was too small. Maiden voyage is next weekend to Detroit

Runway is 7003 ft, and perhaps terrain issues too. Guess they don't want to go int LWB with a 767's worth of football players and their equipment?

In any case it sounds like the DET game is when they get their first workout. A quick search says that game is Fri, Aug 25.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 15652
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:55 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
The Panthers flew this evening CLT-BNA on an AA 763ER (N376AN - old configuration). Flight number AA 9446.
The frame positioned DFW-CLT and BNA-DFW.

Interesting, but why bring up the Panthers in this thread?
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
Bald1983
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:26 pm

I hope they keep the fuselages properly inflated.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 15652
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:29 pm

Bald1983 wrote:
I hope they keep the fuselages properly inflated.

That joke was funny the first three times it was posted.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 6073
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:36 pm

The inability of those six teams to cover their needs with anything other than Miami Air seems odd to me. Miami Air is an excellent carrier, and but for the jet size will I know take good care of the team.

However, this is perhaps a failure of imagination. The teams don't usually take any kind of special or modified mainline widebody. They give a player a whole row, but it's whatever crappy pitch American currently offers. Which leaves a lot of options:

767MW, for example. Which carries 110 in business-class seating.

Or regular Atlas charter 767s, which are used mostly for the military. I think there are 5 of them.

Or the Sonair 747-400 passenger aircraft, operated by Atlas, which is pretty-luxe and of which there is one extra that's used for backup and for the occasional charter of dainty people. (Sonair used to get all persnickety about their interiors, as if they were the Deity's Gift. Don't know if they still do.)

Or one of the two Atlas regular 747-400 passenger aircraft, which are used mostly for military. I know they are pretty-busy during some seasons, but with enough planning time...

Or one of Omni's three 777s.

Or one of Omni's nine 767s.

And there are others.

It just seems like three-to-six flights per weekend from the six dropped AA teams could be shoehorned somewhere into even just that fleet. It's actually not that many flights.
 
slider
Posts: 6889
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:50 pm

Revelation wrote:
timf wrote:
slider wrote:
Pats already having problems with these planes/operator...they took DL to LWB last evening.

Are you sure they were even scheduled to use them? A week ago it sounded like they were still hiring crew members. They may not be planning to use them until the regular season.

A Pats reporter ( https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/897612665471684608 ) tweets:

Ben Volin‏ Verified account @BenVolin 11h11 hours ago

Patriots didn’t use their new 767 AirKrafts this week because the WV airport was too small. Maiden voyage is next weekend to Detroit

Runway is 7003 ft, and perhaps terrain issues too. Guess they don't want to go int LWB with a 767's worth of football players and their equipment?

In any case it sounds like the DET game is when they get their first workout. A quick search says that game is Fri, Aug 25.


That's not why. They were supposed to use the new A/C and go into ROA. Planes aren't ready, so they could do neither.
 
codc10
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:32 pm

wjcandee wrote:
If they want to charter it out, some kind of arrangement with a proper 121 carrier will have to happen, of course.


Pats are apparently using Team 125, Inc., a startup (in-house) operation pursuant to FAR Part 125.

Part 125 precludes the use of aircraft on the certificate for pure charter work, as same would constitute holding out to the public for hire. An interesting move with an obscure, relatively little-used section of the FAR, and one I have some questions about.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2111
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:52 pm

The FAA has been re-writing Part 125 for years now, so it's anybody's guess what it will finally look like, but I would not bet on any expanded charter authority.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:55 pm

I'm just shocked that any photos of these planes at all were allowed to leak. I thought for sure that Goodell would have ordered all images destroyed in the best interests of the game!
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:56 pm

Hmmm... I wonder if the pilots of other NFL teams' planes will only be able to hear Patriots radio on their headsets?
 
manny
Posts: 548
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

Re: NFL's Patriots Buy Two 767s ?!?

Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:01 pm

chrisnh wrote:
manny wrote:

In this instance the JETS did not spend a dime and most likely made some marketing dollar on that move. Advantage JETS.


That's like saying 'Advantage Polar Bear' in that hysterical 'Global Warming' photo of the melting iceberg :rotfl:


Not really. You response does even relate to what i said.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos