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Varsity1
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American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:33 pm

ITT I'd like to discuss the future of AA's regional feed. At 653 aircraft, AA has the largest regional lift system in the world. I know we have some MQ and YX employees here, hopefully providing insight. Currently the list of lift providers looks like this:

AA Eagle:

Air Wisconsin:
66 CRJ-200's (contract ends March 2018, will fly these aircraft for United moving forward, lift is being replaced by PDT in PHL and PSA in DCA).

Compass Airlines:
20 ERJ-175's. These aircraft are flown out of an LAX base and are owned by AA outright. The contract ends in 2019 and there is speculation that Envoy will open an LAX base and absorb these aircraft.

Envoy:
33 CRJ-700. Currently being shifted to PSA as staffing allows.
39 ERJ-175. Originally 40 orders with 90 options. 4 options converted for a total of 44 aircraft due. AA has hit the ceiling of it's large RJ scope clause, placing the future of these options in doubt. *Insight here would be huge*.
66 ERJ-145. Being transferred to Piedmont at a rate of 2 a month. Unknown if all will eventually go.
0 ERJ-140. Being brought back into service starting July 2017, unknown as to why or what the long term prospects are for these airplanes.

Expressjet:
3 CRJ-200
12 CRJ-700
I don't know much about XJ's future with AA, but they do have a small fleet with DFW base, not sure it's viable long term. With XJET's ownership by Skywest, I wonder if the flying will be moved over.

Mesa:
64 CRJ-900: Don't know who owns these airplanes, PHX base.

Piedmont:
11 Dash 8 -100
12 Dash 8 -300: Being replaced with ERJ-145's. Pilots are being displaced onto the 145.
26 ERJ-145: Coming at a rate of 2/month from Envoy, initially quoted 40 airplanes, unknown if that will increase or be supplemented by -140's.

PSA:

35 CRJ-200
30 CRJ-700: Being transferred from Envoy. I think PSA would be the top candidate to take XJet's flying out of DFW, however they don't have a base anywhere near there.
54 CRJ-900

Republic

84 ERJ-175's - Seems stable, I think republic owns these aircraft, but I do not know. Some AA outstation bases like MCI are due to close, could lose some flying out of MIA to Envoy with Envoy's new base there.

Skywest:

21 CRJ-200
35 CRJ-700 - could be a candidate to take Xjet's DFW flying

TransStates:

15 ERJ-145 - small contract, most service was inherited from TWA. TSA still runs an STL base as the last remaining legacy of TWA's existence there. *correction, PMUS regional contract service*, not TW/AA related.


The wholly owned regionals have a large market share, but not massive. With Scott Kirby gone, I don't know Doug Parker's opinion of RJ's and wholly owned regional subsidiaries. SK was pro RJ and pro contract lift (non W/O).

All insight welcome.
Last edited by Varsity1 on Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gregn21
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:41 pm

I hope they have a plan to start operating their own equipment instead of hiring the likes of Skywest and Envoy. Also, I would assume that they will try to replace the larger CRJ's with E-175's.
 
Varsity1
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:44 pm

gregn21 wrote:
I hope they have a plan to start operating their own equipment instead of hiring the likes of Skywest and Envoy. Also, I would assume that they will try to replace the larger CRJ's with E-175's.


I don't know who owns the large CRJ's in Expressjet/Mesa's fleet. If it's AA, I would expect them to stick around awhile.

The Air Wisconsin departure from the portfolio will remove nearly all of the CRJ-200's operated under AA's banner. It will be interesting to see how quickly that lift is replaced.
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Cubsrule
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:49 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
TransStates:

15 ERJ-145 - small contract, most service was inherited from TWA. TSA still runs an STL base as the last remaining legacy of TWA's existence there.


Minor correction here: this is actually legacy US. AA terminated AX in about 2009. The STL base covered UA and US flying thereafter.
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Super80Fan
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:50 pm

I could be a 100% wrong but I thought by late summer next year Piedmont will be completely Dash-8 less and operate only E145's.
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Varsity1
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:53 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
TransStates:

15 ERJ-145 - small contract, most service was inherited from TWA. TSA still runs an STL base as the last remaining legacy of TWA's existence there.


Minor correction here: this is actually legacy US. AA terminated AX in about 2009. The STL base covered UA and US flying thereafter.


Awesome, corrected, thanks.
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ADrum23
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:55 pm

Hopefully, the future will be less Eagle flights and more mainline AA service between major airports (on 737's like Southwest). Not to say there is not a market for Eagle service, but I think it's ridiculous that a lot of service between major airports still uses the (delay-prone) Eagle flights (that goes for Delta Connection and United Express as well).
 
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stl07
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:11 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
Hopefully, the future will be less Eagle flights and more mainline AA service between major airports (on 737's like Southwest). Not to say there is not a market for Eagle service, but I think it's ridiculous that a lot of service between major airports still uses the (delay-prone) Eagle flights (that goes for Delta Connection and United Express as well).

Or they could mix it up. Instead of having the current 5x STL - LGA on AA they could do one on mainline and still have 4 flights so frequency is not much lowered, getting both frequency and a mainline option.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:49 pm

AA owns part of Mesa due to the merger.

US got a percentage of stock and ownership when Mesa emerged from Chapter 11.
 
miaskies
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:57 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
ITT I'd like to discuss the future of AA's regional feed. At 653 aircraft, AA has the largest regional lift system in the world. I know we have some MQ and YX employees here, hopefully providing insight. Currently the list of lift providers looks like this:


Republic

84 ERJ-175's - Seems stable, I think republic owns these aircraft, but I do not know. Some AA outstation bases like MCI are due to close, could lose some flying out of MIA to Envoy with Envoy's new base there.

All insight welcome.


Some insights and edits for Republic/AA relationship:

* As of April 2017, Republic has just shy of 14,000 departures monthly for AA as American Eagle AND American Shuttle. These numbers represent just shy of 52% of Republic's monthly departures traffic. So that is quite a healthy and substantial number as regional "partner" for AAG. It is important to remember that Republic/YX flies as both American Eagle and also as American Shuttle. Since November 2016, AA has been running 319, E190, and E175 on the Shuttle markets (ie. LGA-DCA, LGA-BOS, BOS-LGA, BOS-DCA, DCA-LGA, DCA-BOS). Important to note; post restructuring, AAG now owns a portion of Republic Airline along with DL and UA.

* MIA Base: It will be a co-base with both MQ and YX serving the MIA markets. Prior to MQ announcing "formally" that they would reopen MIA they were already running a healthy/base like operation out of MIA along with YX. This will allow AA from what we are hearing to remove E175 from certain markets that are thinner (some seasonal downgrades) and do not require so much lift; thus allowing E175 to open the new markets out of MIA as we are seeing now like MIA-OMA and provide extra lift to existing mainline markets like MIA-IAH, MIA-IAD, MIA-RDU and yes even MIA-LGA which has a 5:45AM departure on an E175.

* LGA Base: With Trans States and Air Wisconsin out of LGA, LGA like MIA (will be) is already a base for both MQ and YX. MQ is handling all of the thinner markets that were being served by Trans States and AIr Wisconsin. YX will continue to serve the larger markets exclusively on the E175 such as LGA-ATL, LGA-MSP, LGA-XNA. As well as continue to provide additional lift as needed for other large Eagle routes like LGA-MEM, LGA-STL, LGA-BNA, LGA-DTW, LGA-RIC. This summer alone YX at LGA is flying many seasonal routes out of LGA such as LGA-MVY, LGA-ACK. Of course we cannot forget about the YX American Shuttle operations out of LGA. Shuttle E175 departures are currently LGA-DCA 8x daily, LGA-BOS 5x daily alone.

* All of the E175 that YX/Republic flies for American as American Eagle and American Shuttle are owned by Republic and flown on behalf of AAG.
The actual number of the E175 fleet for American flown by Republic is as follows:

1) HQ registered E175 (former US Airways Express) Aircraft: 37 Active Aircraft
* these aircraft were formerly 80 seater planes with 8F, 72Y configuration as flown for US Aiways. As of right now, all of these aircraft have had the last row in the Main Cabin removed and are configured in 8F, 68Y to meet scope clause requirements set by AA. They all still have the US Airways cabins and seat covers. Beginning late Fall 2017, American will be doing a complete cabin refurb on these aircraft; which will include adding an additonal row of first class, 4 rows of true Main Cabin Extra, new seat covers, and cabin refresh. The new configuration will be 11F, 64Y = 75 seats; current configuration is 8F, 68Y = 76 seats.

2) YX registered E175 (American Eagle delivered 2013-2015) Aircraft: 47 Active Aircraft
* these aircraft are ALL "EOW" equipped aircraft, meaning they are certified for Extended Overwater Flying which has been a blessing for MIA flying.
* all of the aircraft delivered 2014 and on also have the extended winglets. They are all configured 12F, 64Y = 76 seats.

3) Total Number of YX / Republic E175 flown for American Eagle and American Shuttle: 84 Aircraft

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alasizon
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:17 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Mesa:
64 CRJ-900: Don't know who owns these airplanes, PHX base.


The original 42 L-US birds are YV owned for sure. The for sure AA owned birds are 952-955LR, 957-959LR which are all of the 12F/64Y birds. I'm not sure who exactly owns the ex-Air One birds that were part of the original AA-YV contract that was in DFW and LAX (943LR-951LR & 241-242LR) but I believe those are all AA owned as well. There are also the ex-PLUNA birds that I believe are YV owned.

Lets not forget, they also run a DFW base that is physically larger than the PHX base.

Likewise, due to Mesa's staffing issues, not all of the planes are physically in active service. I believe they only have ~48-50 active lines of flying with 7 operational spares (5 DFW, 1 PHX, 1 float) and the rest are undergoing galley mods and heavy checks.

And lets not forget 407SW, the most dreaded plane in the Eagle system.

Varsity1 wrote:
Skywest:

21 CRJ-200
35 CRJ-700 - could be a candidate to take Xjet's DFW flying


All of the 200s are temporary lift for ORD, at some point they will be replaced by PSA 700s/Envoy 175s. By my count there are 26 CR2s plus the PHX-SGU bird. There has been a rumor for the past six months or so that OO was supposedly adding 43 CRJ-900s (which matches what YV has on the original LUS contract) to be based in PHX and ORD. Re: 700s, there are more than 35 in active service now. I count 38. I believe the newest number I had heard was 41.
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MO11
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:26 am

AA doesn't own any of the Mesa CRJ-900s.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:40 am

I would put money on OO taking over the Expressjet (L-ASA) CRJ flying out of DFW. Rumor is L-ASA doesn't make it out of 2018, with the AA and DL flying being shifted elsewhere.
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alasizon
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:50 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
I would put money on OO taking over the Expressjet (L-ASA) CRJ flying out of DFW. Rumor is L-ASA doesn't make it out of 2018, with the AA and DL flying being shifted elsewhere.


Really? I thought the L-ASA flying was doing better recently than the L-XJ flying.

MO11 wrote:
AA doesn't own any of the Mesa CRJ-900s.


I stand corrected. For some reason I could have sworn that AA owned all of the aircraft that were on the L-AA YV contract but apparently not.
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DiamondFlyer
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:58 am

alasizon wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
I would put money on OO taking over the Expressjet (L-ASA) CRJ flying out of DFW. Rumor is L-ASA doesn't make it out of 2018, with the AA and DL flying being shifted elsewhere.


Really? I thought the L-ASA flying was doing better recently than the L-XJ flying.


Doing better? They're in the process of parking their entire CR2 fleet, of which, a good portion is being absorbed by OO and 9E
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ADrum23
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:00 am

stl07 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Hopefully, the future will be less Eagle flights and more mainline AA service between major airports (on 737's like Southwest). Not to say there is not a market for Eagle service, but I think it's ridiculous that a lot of service between major airports still uses the (delay-prone) Eagle flights (that goes for Delta Connection and United Express as well).

Or they could mix it up. Instead of having the current 5x STL - LGA on AA they could do one on mainline and still have 4 flights so frequency is not much lowered, getting both frequency and a mainline option.


Kind of like what AA is doing with BNA-MIA. Upgrading the morning flight to mainline while keeping the later ones Eagle.
 
alasizon
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:03 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
alasizon wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
I would put money on OO taking over the Expressjet (L-ASA) CRJ flying out of DFW. Rumor is L-ASA doesn't make it out of 2018, with the AA and DL flying being shifted elsewhere.


Really? I thought the L-ASA flying was doing better recently than the L-XJ flying.


Doing better? They're in the process of parking their entire CR2 fleet, of which, a good portion is being absorbed by OO and 9E


Well, I should be clear, I don't think the CR7/CR9 flying will go anywhere. (AA would likely absorb more CR7s if DL doesn't want them). Versus a lot of the EV 145s are being pulled from EV and given to other carriers or retired in favor of other carriers.

As a side note, I'm surprised at how much the rate of Eagle expansion has slowed, although I guess much of that should be attributed to covering for ZW.
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bomber996
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:32 am

I thought I read on here that the CRJ-700s don't count against the numbers for "large" RJs. Any truth to this?

Peace :box:
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jonair8
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:49 am

bomber996 wrote:
I thought I read on here that the CRJ-700s don't count against the numbers for "large" RJs. Any truth to this?

Peace :box:


I was under the same impression as well. 76 seaters qualify under the "large" RJ scope which seems to be almost tapped out, while the 70 seat and under group has much more room for more aircraft. Could mean more CRJ-700, ERJ-170, or even CRJ-705s from another partner? Hoping someone a little closer to the American Eagle operation can add some light to the scope clause.
 
MLIAA
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:53 am

If ASA does go under, the 12 CRJ-700s in DFW will almost certainly be given to OO to fly in DFW, as well as LAX, PHX, and ORD.

I was under the impression that AA had quite a lot of room for large RJ's with regards to the scope clause.

Also, I have heard time and again that the OO CRJ-200 operation at ORD is temporary. Does anyone have an actual timeline on this?
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DiamondFlyer
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:18 pm

alasizon wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
alasizon wrote:

Really? I thought the L-ASA flying was doing better recently than the L-XJ flying.


Doing better? They're in the process of parking their entire CR2 fleet, of which, a good portion is being absorbed by OO and 9E


Well, I should be clear, I don't think the CR7/CR9 flying will go anywhere. (AA would likely absorb more CR7s if DL doesn't want them). Versus a lot of the EV 145s are being pulled from EV and given to other carriers or retired in favor of other carriers.

As a side note, I'm surprised at how much the rate of Eagle expansion has slowed, although I guess much of that should be attributed to covering for ZW.


Check back at the end of August, I think we will know by then, if the L-ASA flying is going away. Might come on the DL side first, to be honest.
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KCaviator
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:00 pm

For whatever it's worth, as a result of the Ch 11 emergence, AA owns a portion of YX. UA and DL also own a portion.
 
toltommy
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:27 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Air Wisconsin:
66 CRJ-200's (contract ends March 2018, will fly these aircraft for United moving forward, lift is being replaced by PDT in PHL and PSA in DCA).

Expressjet:
I don't know much about XJ's future with AA


As you point out, the large RJ cap has been hit. The lift for the 66 ZW aircraft is being shifted from other hubs, but it's not really being "replaced". AA will be down 66 regional aircraft when ZW leaves. To back fill PHL and DCA, what markets/hubs lose service? And what does this do to the large RJ cap? Will AA be over the cap because the 66 frames are gone?

And not to pick nits, but ExpressJet is XE, not XJ. XJ was Mesaba.
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KCaviator
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:18 pm

toltommy wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
Air Wisconsin:
66 CRJ-200's (contract ends March 2018, will fly these aircraft for United moving forward, lift is being replaced by PDT in PHL and PSA in DCA).

Expressjet:
I don't know much about XJ's future with AA


As you point out, the large RJ cap has been hit. The lift for the 66 ZW aircraft is being shifted from other hubs, but it's not really being "replaced". AA will be down 66 regional aircraft when ZW leaves. To back fill PHL and DCA, what markets/hubs lose service? And what does this do to the large RJ cap? Will AA be over the cap because the 66 frames are gone?

And not to pick nits, but ExpressJet is XE, not XJ. XJ was Mesaba.


Pretty sure it's EV.
 
toltommy
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:16 pm

KCaviator wrote:
Pretty sure it's EV.


Darn it, you are correct. They were XE before Expressjet was merged with ASA. Thanks for pointing that out.
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durangomac
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:27 pm

MLIAA wrote:
Also, I have heard time and again that the OO CRJ-200 operation at ORD is temporary. Does anyone have an actual timeline on this?


Well yes and no. I know they picked up a bunch of ORD CRJ-200 to fill in but there are several lines in ORD are At-Risk flying. Unless those markets have been brought back into the Fee for Departure contract I suspect as long as OO is making money and OO keeps flying for AA then you'll see a few CRJ-200 lines in ORD.
 
mhkansan
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:16 pm

I read here that under AA's new scope rules, the small-RJ category included a 65-seat configured CRJ-700 which was why it was so easy to take those ex Horizon and Delta Connection CR7s and place them at ExpressJet for the DFW flying. I wonder if more 700s would be in the cards for AA as the CR2s and E45s become fewer and farther between.
 
fdx320loader
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:10 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
ITT I'd like to discuss the future of AA's regional feed. At 653 aircraft, AA has the largest regional lift system in the world. I know we have some MQ and YX employees here, hopefully providing insight. Currently the list of lift providers looks like this:

AA Eagle:

Compass Airlines:
20 ERJ-175's. These aircraft are flown out of an LAX base and are owned by AA outright. The contract ends in 2019 and there is speculation that Envoy will open an LAX base and absorb these aircraft.

All insight welcome.



Don't want to start an argument or anything, but MQ has been saying that those airplanes will "come home to Envoy" since the second after the contract was awarded to Compass. Just like anything else, I'll believe it when I see it.
 
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hispanola
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:40 pm

Isn't Envoy a 100% owned subsidiary of the American Airlines Group? I thought that's the former American Eagle Airline, which was a part of the AMR Corporation. So if that's the case then AA has all the influence they need over Envoy's fleet decisions.
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USPIT10L
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:15 pm

Envoy is the renamed American Eagle Airlines. It, along with Piedmont and PSA Airlines, are 100% owned by American Airlines Group. SkyWest, ExpressJet, and Mesa. and Republic are independently owned and operated, even though AAG has a stake in Republic, 40% IINM.
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mhkansan
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:15 pm

hispanola wrote:
Isn't Envoy a 100% owned subsidiary of the American Airlines Group? I thought that's the former American Eagle Airline, which was a part of the AMR Corporation. So if that's the case then AA has all the influence they need over Envoy's fleet decisions.

That is correct. Envoy Air is a wholly owned subsidiary of American Airlines Group.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:43 pm

Envoy:
33 CRJ-700. Currently being shifted to PSA as staffing allows.
39 ERJ-175. Originally 40 orders with 90 options. 4 options converted for a total of 44 aircraft due. AA has hit the ceiling of it's large RJ scope clause, placing the future of these options in doubt. *Insight here would be huge*.
66 ERJ-145. Being transferred to Piedmont at a rate of 2 a month. Unknown if all will eventually go.
0 ERJ-140. Being brought back into service starting July 2017, unknown as to why or what the long term prospects are for these airplanes.


That count looks about right. It's changing so much though!

At Envoy, our goal is to be mostly, if not, all E175E in the future. We are sending 2x E145s a month to Piedmont through next year, so by 12/2018, we actually won't have many E145s left if any.

Last I heard, to cover for Air Wisconsin, ALL E140s are to be reactivated and put back into service. Albeit unconfirmed, I did hear all were to also be repainted into the new livery as well. It is my guess that the E140s will be at ORD and LGA primarily.

The CRJ-700s are going back to PSA. 3x have already been transferred as of today.

The 20x E175Es at Compass will be coming to Envoy, as they did not choose to renew the contract with AA. Assuming that ends up happening, there is a good chance Envoy will open a base at LAX. Envoy has reopened LGA and MIA this year alone.

We have 86x E175E options at our disposal. I fully expect additional orders to be placed in the near future.
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Varsity1
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:55 pm

Thanks for the comments everyone. I'll update the OP as time allows.

Boeing778X wrote:
Envoy:
33 CRJ-700. Currently being shifted to PSA as staffing allows.
39 ERJ-175. Originally 40 orders with 90 options. 4 options converted for a total of 44 aircraft due. AA has hit the ceiling of it's large RJ scope clause, placing the future of these options in doubt. *Insight here would be huge*.
66 ERJ-145. Being transferred to Piedmont at a rate of 2 a month. Unknown if all will eventually go.
0 ERJ-140. Being brought back into service starting July 2017, unknown as to why or what the long term prospects are for these airplanes.


That count looks about right. It's changing so much though!

At Envoy, our goal is to be mostly, if not, all E175E in the future. We are sending 2x E145s a month to Piedmont through next year, so by 12/2018, we actually won't have many E145s left if any.

Last I heard, to cover for Air Wisconsin, ALL E140s are to be reactivated and put back into service. Albeit unconfirmed, I did hear all were to also be repainted into the new livery as well. It is my guess that the E140s will be at ORD and LGA primarily.

The CRJ-700s are going back to PSA. 3x have already been transferred as of today.

The 20x E175Es at Compass will be coming to Envoy, as they did not choose to renew the contract with AA. Assuming that ends up happening, there is a good chance Envoy will open a base at LAX. Envoy has reopened LGA and MIA this year alone.

We have 86x E175E options at our disposal. I fully expect additional orders to be placed in the near future.


What's the story with the "large RJ" scope? If the CR7's are reconfigured as small RJ's how many 175 frames does that free up for MQ? Do the E140's play into that as well?
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DiamondFlyer
Posts: 2838
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:01 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
Envoy:
33 CRJ-700. Currently being shifted to PSA as staffing allows.
39 ERJ-175. Originally 40 orders with 90 options. 4 options converted for a total of 44 aircraft due. AA has hit the ceiling of it's large RJ scope clause, placing the future of these options in doubt. *Insight here would be huge*.
66 ERJ-145. Being transferred to Piedmont at a rate of 2 a month. Unknown if all will eventually go.
0 ERJ-140. Being brought back into service starting July 2017, unknown as to why or what the long term prospects are for these airplanes.


That count looks about right. It's changing so much though!

At Envoy, our goal is to be mostly, if not, all E175E in the future. We are sending 2x E145s a month to Piedmont through next year, so by 12/2018, we actually won't have many E145s left if any.

Last I heard, to cover for Air Wisconsin, ALL E140s are to be reactivated and put back into service. Albeit unconfirmed, I did hear all were to also be repainted into the new livery as well. It is my guess that the E140s will be at ORD and LGA primarily.

The CRJ-700s are going back to PSA. 3x have already been transferred as of today.

The 20x E175Es at Compass will be coming to Envoy, as they did not choose to renew the contract with AA. Assuming that ends up happening, there is a good chance Envoy will open a base at LAX. Envoy has reopened LGA and MIA this year alone.

We have 86x E175E options at our disposal. I fully expect additional orders to be placed in the near future.


You have factual evidence of the Compass AA flying going to Envoy? It's been rumored, but no one has proof, much like I assume you have no proof.
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Boeing778X
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:36 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
Envoy:
33 CRJ-700. Currently being shifted to PSA as staffing allows.
39 ERJ-175. Originally 40 orders with 90 options. 4 options converted for a total of 44 aircraft due. AA has hit the ceiling of it's large RJ scope clause, placing the future of these options in doubt. *Insight here would be huge*.
66 ERJ-145. Being transferred to Piedmont at a rate of 2 a month. Unknown if all will eventually go.
0 ERJ-140. Being brought back into service starting July 2017, unknown as to why or what the long term prospects are for these airplanes.


That count looks about right. It's changing so much though!

At Envoy, our goal is to be mostly, if not, all E175E in the future. We are sending 2x E145s a month to Piedmont through next year, so by 12/2018, we actually won't have many E145s left if any.

Last I heard, to cover for Air Wisconsin, ALL E140s are to be reactivated and put back into service. Albeit unconfirmed, I did hear all were to also be repainted into the new livery as well. It is my guess that the E140s will be at ORD and LGA primarily.

The CRJ-700s are going back to PSA. 3x have already been transferred as of today.

The 20x E175Es at Compass will be coming to Envoy, as they did not choose to renew the contract with AA. Assuming that ends up happening, there is a good chance Envoy will open a base at LAX. Envoy has reopened LGA and MIA this year alone.

We have 86x E175E options at our disposal. I fully expect additional orders to be placed in the near future.


You have factual evidence of the Compass AA flying going to Envoy? It's been rumored, but no one has proof, much like I assume you have no proof.


It's been said that DL wants Compass for themselves, and I've heard that from pilots and management. Only time will tell, but those 20 are coming to us eventually.
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flightsimer
Posts: 1014
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:13 am

Boeing778X wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:

That count looks about right. It's changing so much though!

At Envoy, our goal is to be mostly, if not, all E175E in the future. We are sending 2x E145s a month to Piedmont through next year, so by 12/2018, we actually won't have many E145s left if any.

Last I heard, to cover for Air Wisconsin, ALL E140s are to be reactivated and put back into service. Albeit unconfirmed, I did hear all were to also be repainted into the new livery as well. It is my guess that the E140s will be at ORD and LGA primarily.

The CRJ-700s are going back to PSA. 3x have already been transferred as of today.

The 20x E175Es at Compass will be coming to Envoy, as they did not choose to renew the contract with AA. Assuming that ends up happening, there is a good chance Envoy will open a base at LAX. Envoy has reopened LGA and MIA this year alone.

We have 86x E175E options at our disposal. I fully expect additional orders to be placed in the near future.


You have factual evidence of the Compass AA flying going to Envoy? It's been rumored, but no one has proof, much like I assume you have no proof.


It's been said that DL wants Compass for themselves, and I've heard that from pilots and management. Only time will tell, but those 20 are coming to us eventually.

lol, you guys and your Koolaide.

Compass' contract is not up yet and supposedly has extensions available. Secondly, if they are not extended, you have no clue on whether or not you will get that flying. All three majors have come to Republic asking us to open a west coast base and our company will not do it without a 3 year contract to start. I have also heard a rumor saying Delta wants us to replace Compass out of SEA. AAG's options for E175 are not for just Envoy, they are for Eagle. They will place them wherever they see fit to do so.

Your bragging about opening up MIA again, but you will only ever have 145's there, so if your heading to an all E175 fleet, expect MIA to once again close.
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flightsimer
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:39 am

Varsity1 wrote:
ITT I'd like to discuss the future of AA's regional feed. At 653 aircraft, AA has the largest regional lift system in the world. I know we have some MQ and YX employees here, hopefully providing insight. Currently the list of lift providers looks like this:

AA Eagle:

Republic

84 ERJ-175's - Seems stable, I think republic owns these aircraft, but I do not know. Some AA outstation bases like MCI are due to close, could lose some flying out of MIA to Envoy with Envoy's new base there.

The wholly owned regionals have a large market share, but not massive. With Scott Kirby gone, I don't know Doug Parker's opinion of RJ's and wholly owned regional subsidiaries. SK was pro RJ and pro contract lift (non W/O).

All insight welcome.

No outstation bases are set to close at Republic. All bases with the exception of ORD are home to two or three of our partners. ORD had been both UA and AA, but we moved the few ORD-based AA planes to Philly and Miami, leaving just UA In ORD. As miaskies said, we will not be losing any lift out of MIA, we just might lose some of the thinner routes to Envoy while replacing them with new routes.


miaskies wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
ITT I'd like to discuss the future of AA's regional feed. At 653 aircraft, AA has the largest regional lift system in the world. I know we have some MQ and YX employees here, hopefully providing insight. Currently the list of lift providers looks like this:


Republic

84 ERJ-175's - Seems stable, I think republic owns these aircraft, but I do not know. Some AA outstation bases like MCI are due to close, could lose some flying out of MIA to Envoy with Envoy's new base there.

All insight welcome.


Some insights and edits for Republic/AA relationship:

1) HQ registered E175 (former US Airways Express) Aircraft: 37 Active Aircraft
* these aircraft were formerly 80 seater planes with 8F, 72Y configuration as flown for US Aiways. As of right now, all of these aircraft have had the last row in the Main Cabin removed and are configured in 8F, 68Y to meet scope clause requirements set by AA. They all still have the US Airways cabins and seat covers. Beginning late Fall 2017, American will be doing a complete cabin refurb on these aircraft; which will include adding an additonal row of first class, 4 rows of true Main Cabin Extra, new seat covers, and cabin refresh. The new configuration will be 11F, 64Y = 75 seats; current configuration is 8F, 68Y = 76 seats.

Some insight from the Brickyard!

Fly Safe Everyone.

Slight correction on the HQ birds. They are all going through an entire interior refit which will make them the same configuration as the newer YX birds. The forwards closet/storage in front of 2A will be removed and the configs will match the YX 12F-64Y, 76 seat config. I have already flown the first of the refitted birds and had the chance to sit in the back between flights. The retrofitted seats seemed to be actually quite comfortable in the short time I was in them. They are slightly different than what the YX birds were delivered with.
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GoHokies
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:12 am

According to the AA fleet plan on page 4 linked below, AA will have 8 fewer active RJs at the end of 2017 than the beginning of 2017. In Q1 2018, AA will lose even more RJs from Air Wisconsin. As noted earlier in the thread, the rumor is that Piedmont will retire the 15 remaining Dash 8's after the 2018 summer season.

To compensate for the loss of Air Wisconsin's 66 CRJ-200s, AA is activating 21 ERJ-140s this year and will probably activate more next year if they can recruit enough pilots to fly them.

It will be interesting to see which cities see cuts and which ones lose service altogether(i.e. Hilton Head).

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Boeing778X
Posts: 3266
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:38 am

flightsimer wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

You have factual evidence of the Compass AA flying going to Envoy? It's been rumored, but no one has proof, much like I assume you have no proof.


It's been said that DL wants Compass for themselves, and I've heard that from pilots and management. Only time will tell, but those 20 are coming to us eventually.

lol, you guys and your Koolaide.

Compass' contract is not up yet and supposedly has extensions available. Secondly, if they are not extended, you have no clue on whether or not you will get that flying. All three majors have come to Republic asking us to open a west coast base and our company will not do it without a 3 year contract to start. I have also heard a rumor saying Delta wants us to replace Compass out of SEA. AAG's options for E175 are not for just Envoy, they are for Eagle. They will place them wherever they see fit to do so.

Your bragging about opening up MIA again, but you will only ever have 145's there, so if your heading to an all E175 fleet, expect MIA to once again close.


You yourself don't work for any AAG airline, so how could you even say that with confidence?

The 20x Compass E175s belong to AAG, and when they are brought back, who's going to operate them? Piedmont? PSA? Republic?

Secondly, who could possibly be awarded the additional E175s other than Envoy? (P.S. Envoy technically is Eagle. Watch out)

Thirdly, you're not paying attention. The 145s are slowly being transferred. By the end of next year, we'll only have a few dozen, and most of the E140s are staying up North. MIA will eventually host MQ E175s, and I wonder why you think we'd close MIA.

Lastly, Koolaid? Come on, don't go there.
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alasizon
Posts: 1347
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:46 am

Boeing778X wrote:
The 20x Compass E175s belong to AAG, and when they are brought back, who's going to operate them? Piedmont? PSA? Republic?

Secondly, who could possibly be awarded the additional E175s other than Envoy? (P.S. Envoy technically is Eagle. Watch out)


I'm not 100% on the details, but as I recall once AA hits a certain amount of AA-owned E175s in the fleet, all further AA-owned E175s delivered after that point have to be operated by Envoy.

In theory, the 20 CP birds could be operated by OO (who normally doesn't operate birds they didn't order/maintain but its not out of the equation if the deal is right).

As far as I know, AA is not at the large RJ cap, overall RJ cap was met but the large RJ cap still has 20-30 frames available. And if they wanted to make more room in the large RJ cap, they would just need to reconfigure the OO CR7s down to 9F/56Y as opposed to the current 6F/64Y.

The AA regional fleet shrinks a small amount this year but after Q2 of next year, should be back to the continued growth of 175s and shrinkage of CR2s.
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DiamondFlyer
Posts: 2838
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:53 am

Boeing778X wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:

It's been said that DL wants Compass for themselves, and I've heard that from pilots and management. Only time will tell, but those 20 are coming to us eventually.

lol, you guys and your Koolaide.

Compass' contract is not up yet and supposedly has extensions available. Secondly, if they are not extended, you have no clue on whether or not you will get that flying. All three majors have come to Republic asking us to open a west coast base and our company will not do it without a 3 year contract to start. I have also heard a rumor saying Delta wants us to replace Compass out of SEA. AAG's options for E175 are not for just Envoy, they are for Eagle. They will place them wherever they see fit to do so.

Your bragging about opening up MIA again, but you will only ever have 145's there, so if your heading to an all E175 fleet, expect MIA to once again close.


You yourself don't work for any AAG airline, so how could you even say that with confidence?

The 20x Compass E175s belong to AAG, and when they are brought back, who's going to operate them? Piedmont? PSA? Republic?

Secondly, who could possibly be awarded the additional E175s other than Envoy? (P.S. Envoy technically is Eagle. Watch out)

Thirdly, you're not paying attention. The 145s are slowly being transferred. By the end of next year, we'll only have a few dozen, and most of the E140s are staying up North. MIA will eventually host MQ E175s, and I wonder why you think we'd close MIA.

Lastly, Koolaid? Come on, don't go there.


I don't work for any AAG related carrier, I just can't stand people salivating over other professionals not having a job to support themselves and their families with. Its all too rampant with 2 pilot groups at the regional level. The AAG owned regionals and OO, they salivate over putting other professionals out of business.
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cheapgreek
Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:12 am

Boeing778X wrote:
Envoy:
33 CRJ-700. Currently being shifted to PSA as staffing allows.
39 ERJ-175. Originally 40 orders with 90 options. 4 options converted for a total of 44 aircraft due. AA has hit the ceiling of it's large RJ scope clause, placing the future of these options in doubt. *Insight here would be huge*.
66 ERJ-145. Being transferred to Piedmont at a rate of 2 a month. Unknown if all will eventually go.
0 ERJ-140. Being brought back into service starting July 2017, unknown as to why or what the long term prospects are for these airplanes.


That count looks about right. It's changing so much though!

At Envoy, our goal is to be mostly, if not, all E175E in the future. We are sending 2x E145s a month to Piedmont through next year, so by 12/2018, we actually won't have many E145s left if any.

Last I heard, to cover for Air Wisconsin, ALL E140s are to be reactivated and put back into service. Albeit unconfirmed, I did hear all were to also be repainted into the new livery as well. It is my guess that the E140s will be at ORD and LGA primarily.

The CRJ-700s are going back to PSA. 3x have already been transferred as of today.


The 20x E175Es at Compass will be coming to Envoy, as they did not choose to renew the contract with AA. Assuming that ends up happening, there is a good chance Envoy will open a base at LAX. Envoy has reopened LGA and MIA this year alone.

We have 86x E175E options at our disposal. I fully expect additional orders to be placed in the near future.


Who gets the 140's, Piedmont?
 
F27500
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:15 am

I am curious about service to 2 cities in particular when Piedmont (finally) parks those old Dash 8s:

New Haven and Hilton Head.

There may be other cities, but due to runway length (and violently opposed airport area residents), these 2 cities are not candidates for RJs (even as small as the EMB145s) from what I understand.

Curious If these 2 will lose service altogether when the last Dash is gone?
 
fdx320loader
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:26 am

Boeing778X wrote:



The 20x E175Es at Compass will be coming to Envoy, as they did not choose to renew the contract with AA. Assuming that ends up happening, there is a good chance Envoy will open a base at LAX. Envoy has reopened LGA and MIA this year alone.

.



So any single shred of evidence to support this? First you say the contract with CP was not renewed (source?), and then you say "assuming that ends up happening (that the airplanes will come to you)."

I've never seen a pilot group take so much joy in possibly putting hundreds of pilots out of work, so disheartening to see what the attitude at some regionals has come to. Glad I got out when I did.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:33 am

cheapgreek wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
Envoy:
33 CRJ-700. Currently being shifted to PSA as staffing allows.
39 ERJ-175. Originally 40 orders with 90 options. 4 options converted for a total of 44 aircraft due. AA has hit the ceiling of it's large RJ scope clause, placing the future of these options in doubt. *Insight here would be huge*.
66 ERJ-145. Being transferred to Piedmont at a rate of 2 a month. Unknown if all will eventually go.
0 ERJ-140. Being brought back into service starting July 2017, unknown as to why or what the long term prospects are for these airplanes.


That count looks about right. It's changing so much though!

At Envoy, our goal is to be mostly, if not, all E175E in the future. We are sending 2x E145s a month to Piedmont through next year, so by 12/2018, we actually won't have many E145s left if any.

Last I heard, to cover for Air Wisconsin, ALL E140s are to be reactivated and put back into service. Albeit unconfirmed, I did hear all were to also be repainted into the new livery as well. It is my guess that the E140s will be at ORD and LGA primarily.

The CRJ-700s are going back to PSA. 3x have already been transferred as of today.


The 20x E175Es at Compass will be coming to Envoy, as they did not choose to renew the contract with AA. Assuming that ends up happening, there is a good chance Envoy will open a base at LAX. Envoy has reopened LGA and MIA this year alone.

We have 86x E175E options at our disposal. I fully expect additional orders to be placed in the near future.


Who gets the 140's, Piedmont?


It's possible.

Though Piedmont is replacing their Dash-8s 1:1. Not sure how well theyre staffed.

It's also entirely possible some of the E140s become corporate jets, like the E135s did.
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MLIAA
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:01 am

flightsimer wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

You have factual evidence of the Compass AA flying going to Envoy? It's been rumored, but no one has proof, much like I assume you have no proof.


It's been said that DL wants Compass for themselves, and I've heard that from pilots and management. Only time will tell, but those 20 are coming to us eventually.

lol, you guys and your Koolaide.

Compass' contract is not up yet and supposedly has extensions available. Secondly, if they are not extended, you have no clue on whether or not you will get that flying. All three majors have come to Republic asking us to open a west coast base and our company will not do it without a 3 year contract to start. I have also heard a rumor saying Delta wants us to replace Compass out of SEA. AAG's options for E175 are not for just Envoy, they are for Eagle. They will place them wherever they see fit to do so.

Your bragging about opening up MIA again, but you will only ever have 145's there, so if your heading to an all E175 fleet, expect MIA to once again close.


The AA E175 options are in fact for Envoy and Envoy alone. If anyone at American gets more E175s, it will be Envoy. And it only makes sense for those AA-owned 175s at CP to come back to Envoy when the contract ends. It has nothing to do with hard feelings between MQ and CP. It has to do with economics and staffing, and if CP cannot deliver on those, they will lose the flying. It's not personal, it's business.

Of course we are bragging about opening MIA. It's called recruiting. Don't consider RP a permanent fixture at MIA. The day may come when Envoy gets the 100th-odd E175 and we open a crew base in South Florida with it.

As for west-coast flying, I think the majors, at least DL and AA, would like another dominant, stable, economic carrier out west to compliment and compete with OO. Be that Compass or Mesa or Republic or a wholly-owned... whoever.
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KCaviator
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:05 am

Who's RP? I thought Chautauqua merged into Shuttle awhile ago?
 
Varsity1
Topic Author
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:26 am

F27500 wrote:
I am curious about service to 2 cities in particular when Piedmont (finally) parks those old Dash 8s:

New Haven and Hilton Head.

There may be other cities, but due to runway length (and violently opposed airport area residents), these 2 cities are not candidates for RJs (even as small as the EMB145s) from what I understand.

Curious If these 2 will lose service altogether when the last Dash is gone?


I think the 140's can get out of HXD with opspec revisions (no TODRx1.25/75 margins). 4300ft at sea level shouldn't be too difficult for a light RJ.
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Cubsrule
Posts: 13101
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:41 am

Varsity1 wrote:
F27500 wrote:
I am curious about service to 2 cities in particular when Piedmont (finally) parks those old Dash 8s:

New Haven and Hilton Head.

There may be other cities, but due to runway length (and violently opposed airport area residents), these 2 cities are not candidates for RJs (even as small as the EMB145s) from what I understand.

Curious If these 2 will lose service altogether when the last Dash is gone?


I think the 140's can get out of HXD with opspec revisions (no TODRx1.25/75 margins). 4300ft at sea level shouldn't be too difficult for a light RJ.


Aren't there obstacle clearance issues (trees)? I recall reading that but cannot put my hands on a link.
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MLIAA
Posts: 80
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Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:47 am

KCaviator wrote:
Who's RP? I thought Chautauqua merged into Shuttle awhile ago?


Apologies, I meant YX for Republic. I'll fix it.
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