RUMOR: DL A350 - AMS-JFK on 31 Aug

factsonly · Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:15 am

DL is showing an extra flight in its reservation system on 31 August 2017 AMS-JFK:

- AMS 2:30PM - JFK 4:49PM DL8771 B763 - This flight is for sale.

Rumor has it that this service is in fact a DL A350 operating TLS-AMS-JFK on its delivery flight.

No inbound B763 flight is shown to operate this service.

Can any regular on the A350 delivery thread confirm this ?

BreninTW · Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:49 am

I would be extremely surprised if an airline put a brand new aircraft and aircraft type into service on the delivery flight. Typically the aircraft is ferried to a maintenance base on its first flight and then is used for training and familiarization flights for a couple of days to weeks before it enters revenue service.

If I remember correctly, two of the Asian carriers that I know of who fly the A350 took about two weeks between delivery and first (revenue) flight for their first birds.

michman · Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:34 am

DL already has an A350 seatmap in it's system. Why would they load a 767 seatmap when they could load an A350 one? This sounds like a rumor you made up on your own.

UAL777UK · Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:39 am

Makes no sense at all! As BreninTW stated its the norm to be used for training etc before it goes into revenue service.

AirAfreak · Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:06 am

Oh dear lord not another rumor.

Word on the street is, DL is going to do A350 cabin crew familiarization flights on short-haul services from Atlanta to Savannah as part of the "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil" movie tour package. Lady Chablis will be the first passenger in the DeltaOne Suite signing autographs for a fee; unless you have the Delta Airlines Skymiles credit card from American Express then the fee is waived. Can your card get you more? My card can.

Momo1435 · Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:10 am

As I remember correctly Ethiopian did the same with one of their 787s. Air Baltic recently also something similar with a brand new C300, With a turnaround from the delivery flight onto the 1st revenue flight in just 50 minutes.

So it's not like it's never done before.

Dutchy · Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:23 am

Momo1435 wrote:
As I remember correctly Ethiopian did the same with one of their 787s. Air Baltic recently also something similar with a brand new C300, With a turnaround from the delivery flight onto the 1st revenue flight in just 50 minutes.

So it's not like it's never done before.

In this case, it would not even have touched American soil before taken on passengers. How are they going to do this logistically, I mean scrapping the inbound flight? Seems like a none-starter to me.

yochai · Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:40 am

Momo1435 wrote:
As I remember correctly Ethiopian did the same with one of their 787s. Air Baltic recently also something similar with a brand new C300, With a turnaround from the delivery flight onto the 1st revenue flight in just 50 minutes.

So it's not like it's never done before.

Those were not the first frames of the type for the airline though

scbriml · Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:30 am

For some reason my post seems to have been deleted.

It would be very unusual, if not unique, for an airline to have a revenue service on the actual delivery flight.

Momo1435 wrote:
As I remember correctly Ethiopian did the same with one of their 787s. Air Baltic recently also something similar with a brand new C300, With a turnaround from the delivery flight onto the 1st revenue flight in just 50 minutes.

Putting a plane into revenue service quickly after delivery is quite different to having a revenue service on the actual delivery flight. I also suspect in these cases these were later deliveries of the type, not a brand new type as in DL's case.

Boeingphan · Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:20 pm

While nothing more than a rumor this could be some free (positive) publicity from DL which in this day and age is a good thing!

LAXLHR · Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:27 pm

factsonly wrote:
DL is showing an extra flight in its reservation system on 31 August 2017 AMS-JFK:

- AMS 2:30PM - JFK 4:49PM DL8771 B763 - This flight is for sale.

Rumor has it that this service is in fact a DL A350 operating TLS-AMS-JFK on its delivery flight.

No inbound B763 flight is shown to operate this service.

Can any regular on the A350 delivery thread confirm this ?

IF true then I think its great. Perhaps we've reached a point with Airbus where enough in-cabin fixtures/procedures have been rehearsed in TLS and back at HQ (plus commonality with other buses) to allow the first revenue flight to be a go from delivery. Why not make money instead of burning fuel / expenses for 8 hours (even if some of its a write off on the books or absorbed in other ways).

Great if they can do it.

Polot · Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:32 pm

LAXLHR wrote:

IF true then I think its great. Perhaps we've reached a point with Airbus where enough in-cabin fixtures/procedures have been rehearsed in TLS and back at HQ (plus commonality with other buses) to allow the first revenue flight to be a go from delivery. Why not make money instead of burning fuel / expenses for 8 hours (even if some of its a write off on the books or absorbed in other ways).

Great if they can do it.

It is not whether Airbus is ready, is about whether DL is ready. Don't really want your first revenue service of a brand new type be a mess because crew (ground and air) are not fully familiar with the plane yet and are bumbling around.

airboeingbus · Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:32 pm

It might be a DL chairman's club celebration flight, they did that with the 242t A330 delivery. Although not via AMS

Kikko19 · Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:34 pm

can see from Amadeus only 76W operating the flight...

Momo1435 · Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:47 pm

scbriml wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
As I remember correctly Ethiopian did the same with one of their 787s. Air Baltic recently also something similar with a brand new C300, With a turnaround from the delivery flight onto the 1st revenue flight in just 50 minutes.

Putting a plane into revenue service quickly after delivery is quite different to having a revenue service on the actual delivery flight. I also suspect in these cases these were later deliveries of the type, not a brand new type as in DL's case.

For Ethiopian it was actually the 1st delivered 787. The delivery flight was to Washington DC, with the flight from there to Addis Ababa was its 1st revenue flight.

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2012-08-14- ... -First-787

So it's not something never done before. And this won't be Delta's 1st delivery, so who knows what they will do.

atcsundevil · Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:01 pm

airboeingbus wrote:
It might be a DL chairman's club celebration flight, they did that with the 242t A330 delivery. Although not via AMS

It's entirely possible that it's some sort of special flight. I agree with everyone that a scheduled passenger service is highly unlikely before induction work and fam flights, but many airlines use aircraft deliveries as opportunities to reward employees or loyal passengers. That wouldn't be unusual at all, so if that's what this proves to be, I wouldn't be at all surprised. I'm willing to bet the flight displays with a 767 seat map as a placeholder, but isn't bookable.

777Mech · Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:13 pm

factsonly wrote:
DL is showing an extra flight in its reservation system on 31 August 2017 AMS-JFK:

- AMS 2:30PM - JFK 4:49PM DL8771 B763 - This flight is for sale.

Rumor has it that this service is in fact a DL A350 operating TLS-AMS-JFK on its delivery flight.

No inbound B763 flight is shown to operate this service.

Can any regular on the A350 delivery thread confirm this ?

Nope. Delta cannot operate the A350 with pax without an FAA ETOPS proving run which won't be done by that date. The second A350 won't even be done with PTS until mid-September..

Flyer732 · Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:30 pm

More than likely just a repo flight from a charter, that they're selling seats on to make extra profit.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:04 pm

Its is 100% not a delivery flight to fly an A350 TLS-AMS-JFK.

New aircraft are NEVER put into revenue service when being delivered from the manufacturer without being inducted into the airline's maintenance systems, being fitted with airline-owned/installed equipment, and being furnished with passenger comfort & service amenities.

Plus as mentioned above the A350 won't even have its ETOPS certification done.

So we can now end the A350 rumor.

capitalflyer · Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:30 pm

Probably a ferry flight for a European based charter return. I know a number of European soccer teams have been in the U.S. this summer, but I think they have finished. Also could be an added flight for European tourists as August is always the time that there are Europeans all over the US, especially here in DC.

Armodeen · Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:57 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Its is 100% not a delivery flight to fly an A350 TLS-AMS-JFK.

New aircraft are NEVER put into revenue service when being delivered from the manufacturer without being inducted into the airline's maintenance systems, being fitted with airline-owned/installed equipment, and being furnished with passenger comfort & service amenities.

Plus as mentioned above the A350 won't even have its ETOPS certification done.

So we can now end the A350 rumor.

I'm not saying it will happen, but saying it NEVER happens when just a few posts above someone gives an example of the very thing happening, just makes you look a bit silly

32andBelow · Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:59 pm

They have to go through FAA approval before they can even fly it. No chance FAA is going to fly to France to do it.

32andBelow · Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Armodeen wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Its is 100% not a delivery flight to fly an A350 TLS-AMS-JFK.

New aircraft are NEVER put into revenue service when being delivered from the manufacturer without being inducted into the airline's maintenance systems, being fitted with airline-owned/installed equipment, and being furnished with passenger comfort & service amenities.

Plus as mentioned above the A350 won't even have its ETOPS certification done.

So we can now end the A350 rumor.

I'm not saying it will happen, but saying it NEVER happens when just a few posts above someone gives an example of the very thing happening, just makes you look a bit silly

The FAA is a little most strict then whatever African agency was referenced above.

CriticalPoint · Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:16 pm

777Mech wrote:
factsonly wrote:
DL is showing an extra flight in its reservation system on 31 August 2017 AMS-JFK:

- AMS 2:30PM - JFK 4:49PM DL8771 B763 - This flight is for sale.

Rumor has it that this service is in fact a DL A350 operating TLS-AMS-JFK on its delivery flight.

No inbound B763 flight is shown to operate this service.

Can any regular on the A350 delivery thread confirm this ?

Nope. Delta cannot operate the A350 with pax without an FAA ETOPS proving run which won't be done by that date. The second A350 won't even be done with PTS until mid-September..

^^^^^THIS

DL has to perform ETOPS flights, and crew verification flights with the FAA on board before they can carry a single passenger. This usually takes about a month for the FAA to approve an aircraft for operation.

DLSANMan · Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:05 pm

Sorry folks. I know for a fact the first flight from TLS is carrying Chairmens honorees. It is flying nonstop TLS ATL. Acft still has to have ETOPS cert and wifi installed. I think the focus should be determining which revenue domestic flight this plane will pick up in October.

EddieDude · Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:09 pm

AirAfreak wrote:
Oh dear lord not another rumor.

Word on the street is, DL is going to do A350 cabin crew familiarization flights on short-haul services from Atlanta to Savannah as part of the "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil" movie tour package. Lady Chablis will be the first passenger in the DeltaOne Suite signing autographs for a fee; unless you have the Delta Airlines Skymiles credit card from American Express then the fee is waived. Can your card get you more? My card can.

Wow!!!! Hahaha. Loved it.

LAXLHR · Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:00 pm

Polot wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:

IF true then I think its great. Perhaps we've reached a point with Airbus where enough in-cabin fixtures/procedures have been rehearsed in TLS and back at HQ (plus commonality with other buses) to allow the first revenue flight to be a go from delivery. Why not make money instead of burning fuel / expenses for 8 hours (even if some of its a write off on the books or absorbed in other ways).

Great if they can do it.

It is not whether Airbus is ready, is about whether DL is ready. Don't really want your first revenue service of a brand new type be a mess because crew (ground and air) are not fully familiar with the plane yet and are bumbling around.

What I meant by this... "Perhaps we've reached a point with Airbus where enough in-cabin fixtures/procedures have been rehearsed in TLS and back at HQ" ...was that perhaps Airbus has streamlined the process so that DL can rehearse some of this ahead of time.

With that said, upon greater reflection this might just be a GDS error, or something else. Doubtful that the paying public would be allowed on such a flight. :-)

usxguy · Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:10 pm

the plane has to be accepted by Delta, onboarded into the company systems, and then added to the Ops Specs (FAA). that typically means it needs to be on U.S. soil first.

777Mech · Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:58 am

DLSANMan wrote:
Sorry folks. I know for a fact the first flight from TLS is carrying Chairmens honorees. It is flying nonstop TLS ATL. Acft still has to have ETOPS cert and wifi installed. I think the focus should be determining which revenue domestic flight this plane will pick up in October.

Actually it'll be the second flight. They'll be on 3502 when it's done with PTS. No domestic flights in October. They will spend a lot of the time doing ground familiarization for the ground crews, with static and photo flights, evac demos and the like.

Cubsrule · Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:25 am

777Mech wrote:
DLSANMan wrote:
Sorry folks. I know for a fact the first flight from TLS is carrying Chairmens honorees. It is flying nonstop TLS ATL. Acft still has to have ETOPS cert and wifi installed. I think the focus should be determining which revenue domestic flight this plane will pick up in October.

Actually it'll be the second flight. They'll be on 3502 when it's done with PTS. No domestic flights in October. They will spend a lot of the time doing ground familiarization for the ground crews, with static and photo flights, evac demos and the like.

On a totally unrelated note, it's nice to see the "NW-style" tail numbering for the 350s. 35xx fits right with 31xx, 32xx and 33xx.

AirAfreak · Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:08 am

EddieDude wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
Oh dear lord not another rumor.

Word on the street is, DL is going to do A350 cabin crew familiarization flights on short-haul services from Atlanta to Savannah as part of the "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil" movie tour package. Lady Chablis will be the first passenger in the DeltaOne Suite signing autographs for a fee; unless you have the Delta Airlines Skymiles credit card from American Express then the fee is waived. Can your card get you more? My card can.

Wow!!!! Hahaha. Loved it.

Glad someone knows that Savannah reference lol!

panamair · Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:38 am

Cubsrule wrote:

On a totally unrelated note, it's nice to see the "NW-style" tail numbering for the 350s. 35xx fits right with 31xx, 32xx and 33xx.

I am not sure that numbering scheme is exclusively legacy NW...legacy DL's 737s (from before the merger) all have the same set up as well:
737-700s are 3601-3610
737-800s are 3701-3773
The 737-900s are in the 38XX series though I think these were ordered post-merger

MartijnNL · Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:41 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
New aircraft are NEVER put into revenue service when being delivered from the manufacturer without being inducted into the airline's maintenance systems, being fitted with airline-owned/installed equipment, and being furnished with passenger comfort & service amenities.

Never say NEVER. At least Air Baltic and Ethiopian Airlines do, as is mentioned a few posts above yours.

I thought all this fitting and furnishing is done before the aircraft is delivered.

MartijnNL · Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:47 am

32andBelow wrote:
The FAA is a little most strict then whatever African agency was referenced above.

That's a pretty contemptuous (had to look that word up) remark. To my knowledge Ethiopian Airlines is a highly respected airline in the industry. And Air Baltic is a European airline.

BobMUC · Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:07 am

usxguy wrote:
the plane has to be accepted by Delta, ...

You mean after the WIFI installation? At least DL has already accepted the plane from Airbus!

avellanetjr · Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:01 am

It has been long announced this aircraft will leave TLS for USA on August 4.

Cubsrule · Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:53 pm

panamair wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

On a totally unrelated note, it's nice to see the "NW-style" tail numbering for the 350s. 35xx fits right with 31xx, 32xx and 33xx.

I am not sure that numbering scheme is exclusively legacy NW...legacy DL's 737s (from before the merger) all have the same set up as well:
737-700s are 3601-3610
737-800s are 3701-3773
The 737-900s are in the 38XX series though I think these were ordered post-merger

That's a good point. What is the pattern for the 321s?

DL777200LR · Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:50 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
panamair wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

On a totally unrelated note, it's nice to see the "NW-style" tail numbering for the 350s. 35xx fits right with 31xx, 32xx and 33xx.

I am not sure that numbering scheme is exclusively legacy NW...legacy DL's 737s (from before the merger) all have the same set up as well:
737-700s are 3601-3610
737-800s are 3701-3773
The 737-900s are in the 38XX series though I think these were ordered post-merger

That's a good point. What is the pattern for the 321s?

A321: 30XX
A320: 32XX
A319: 31XX
A330: 33XX
A350: 35XX

77L: 71XX
77E: 70XX
763: 14XX/15XX/16XX/17XX/01XX
764: 18XX
744: 63XX
752: 68XX/67XX/06XX/55XX/56XX
753: 58XX
739: 38XX
738: 37XX
737-7: 36XX

MD88: 90XX/09XX
MD90: 92XX
717: 95XX

Don't know what the C series will be designated as.

Momo1435 · Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:54 pm

Just to put closure to this rumor.

Delta 763 N183DN landed in Toulouse earlier today, it will fly back to the US via AMS on the 08/31.

ATL - TLS
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9770

AMS-JFK
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl8771

YYZatcboy · Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:15 pm

There is no requirement to operate in ETOPS airspace for flights across the Atlantic. It would add time/expense for JFK but could technically be done without ETOPS.

jumbojet · Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:40 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
Just to put closure to this rumor.

Delta 763 N183DN landed in Toulouse earlier today, it will fly back to the US via AMS on the 08/31.

ATL - TLS
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9770

AMS-JFK
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl8771

I'm guessing it dropped off the crew to fly N502DN back to ATL.

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