User avatar
yowza
Topic Author
Posts: 4357
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

E190's on the way out at Austral?

Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:24 pm

If my Spanish comprehension is up to par (big if :D) it looks as if the powers that be in Buenos Aires are putting the AU fleet under the microscope and that the E190's days may be numbered.
Sin embargo, todo parece indicar que se venderán en paquete.

Argentinians, how reliable is La Nacion typically with such stories?

I was left scratching my head a little but at this:
También, Aerolíneas Argentinas y Austral vuelan, además de con los Embraer, con Boeing y con Airbus.

Eso implica que haya que tener tres líneas de repuestos, tres tipos de capacitación y certificación del personal técnico. También significa que los pilotos tienen que hacer cursos y simulador para tres familias de aviones.

I appreciate the combined AR/AU fleet is small but is this that much of a problem?

[Source: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2048496-aero ... o-cristina]
 
User avatar
DABYT
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:59 pm

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:36 pm

Despite not being Argentine i would say La Nacion is a reliable source. The main reason for considering selling the Embraer is that they are too small for Australs (Aerolineas Argentinas) needs. Anyway until now no decision has been made so they might stay with Austral for a while.
 
User avatar
Channex757
Posts: 1402
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:25 pm

Just read a translation of the page. Seems to me there is a disconnect here between the management and reality.

First they are going off increasing sales. Why not put extra seats in the E190? 94 is a bit low and it could easily squeeze extra in. The second is, why try and sell them when you have started taking depreciation on them already? If anything, shop for bargain adds and increase frequency.

Just because your numbers are up doesn't mean you need the shiniest and newest aircraft. AR itself has taken GE-engined A330CEO aircraft recently that are working their routes and doing so admirably. They didn't go for 777s or A350s despite increasing traffic, they got examples of what works well today with the right capacity. Turning over the AU fleet just sounds like an exercise in debt-junkie management.
 
dcajet
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

AR mulls retiring entire E190 fleet

Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:49 am

The 26 strong fleet (24 owned, 2 leased), operated by Austral, may soon be leaving the AR Group, as early as 2018.

The Jungle Jets have fallen victim to the growth of air travel in Argentina and have become simply too small and too expensive on a CASM basis, compared to the 738 and 73G, and the MAX 8, that will join the fleet in November.

With Flybondi and Norwegian arriving in Argentina by Q.4 17 and Q1 18, Avianca (possibly the A320) and LATAM Argentina planning to add the A321 to its fleet, the Aerolineas Group needs a more cost-competitive and bigger capacity fleet for Austral.

A decision about the retirement and the replacement of the 26 strong fleet will be taken by December.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2048496-aero ... o-cristina
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
C010T3
Posts: 1783
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

Re: AR mulls retiring entire E190 fleet

Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:19 am

Argentina has plenty of smaller destinations for which the fleet makes sense, but I guess that is not the point.

May the best carriers survive the bloodbath.
 
AtomicGarden
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:28 am

Yes, E Jets are likely to be replaced by bigger aircraft. While I'd love to see some CSeries in AU's colours, it is more likely to be swapped with 737s. It is said that the MAX will go for AR and the NGs will find a new home with AU. Partly fleet rationalization, partly need for capacity. The very link says AR/AU carried 30% more pax than 2 years ago. Also, E Jets weren't the most popular with pilots who thought of them of a downgrade from larger MD's.

AR has a long and good relationship with Boeing, E190's are mostly owned, I'm sure we can sell them and get good deals from Boeing.

All in all, this is good news, but in very early stages.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 1161
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:32 am

AtomicGarden wrote:
Yes, E Jets are likely to be replaced by bigger aircraft. While I'd love to see some CSeries in AU's colours, it is more likely to be swapped with 737s. It is said that the MAX will go for AR and the NGs will find a new home with AU. Partly fleet rationalization, partly need for capacity. The very link says AR/AU carried 30% more pax than 2 years ago. Also, E Jets weren't the most popular with pilots who thought of them of a downgrade from larger MD's.

AR has a long and good relationship with Boeing, E190's are mostly owned, I'm sure we can sell them and get good deals from Boeing.

All in all, this is good news, but in very early stages.


Will AR be getting more than 11 (or thereabouts) 737MAXs? I would think they are preparing a rather decent expansion to fend off flybondi and Norwegian?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: AR mulls retiring entire E190 fleet

Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:49 am

VA is retiring its E190s for the same reason. They are a very comfortable plane to fly on but their trip costs are not sufficiently less than a 738 to justify the costs of keeping an additional type in the fleet.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
airliner371
Posts: 2282
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

Re: AR mulls retiring entire E190 fleet

Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:18 am

Sounds like the story of every E190 operator. B6 is evaluating its E190 fleet as well, and DL cancelled the deliveries of the E190 from AC who is also getting rid of them...
Support Net Neutrality, Support airliners.net!
 
rbavfan
Posts: 1819
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: AR mulls retiring entire E190 fleet

Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:20 am

dcajet wrote:
The 26 strong fleet (24 owned, 2 leased), operated by Austral, may soon be leaving the AR Group, as early as 2018.

The Jungle Jets have fallen victim to the growth of air travel in Argentina and have become simply too small and too expensive on a CASM basis, compared to the 738 and 73G, and the MAX 8, that will join the fleet in November.

With Flybondi and Norwegian arriving in Argentina by Q.4 17 and Q1 18, Avianca (possibly the A320) and LATAM Argentina planning to add the A321 to its fleet, the Aerolineas Group needs a more cost-competitive and bigger capacity fleet for Austral.

A decision about the retirement and the replacement of the 26 strong fleet will be taken by December.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2048496-aero ... o-cristina



It's owned by the government & Aerolineas Argentinas, but its AU's aircraft, not AR's.
 
dcajet
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:48 pm

Besides high CASM and small-ish capacity, there is another reason Austral is considering phasing out its E190s: the high cost of maintenance. Quite the same tune we have heard from JetBlue and others.

In the case of Austral, the older machines are around 7 years since brand new and a costly components' overhaul is coming up: landing gears and engines. So the airline reckons that this is the right time to upgauge the fleet to higher capacity aircraft.

As mentioned earlier, a decision should be made by year's end and the AR Group is talking about an "all in one deal package", not getting rid of them in piecemeal fashion. That gives credence to the rumors of a top up order for more 737 MAX; the idea going around is to transfer to Austral part of the 737 800 fleet while Aerolineas replaces them with the MAX 8 - 11 are on order. There are two more 800s scheduled for delivery in August and September and from that delivery onwards, all incoming 737s will be MAX 8. AR has a very solid, 50+ years relationship with Boeing and Argentina is 737 country since 1970. The latter is also courting AR with a 787 deal, as the airline has to make a decision in the coming 18 months about its long range fleet - specifically a replacement for the A340. The A330 is doing great, and AR already flies the longest non stop route for the A330 (EZE- FCO) but the airiine needs a bit more range and capacity if - and it is only a matter of time - it decides to return to Australia or points in Europe beyond Spain and Italy for which the 330 clearly falls short.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Jayafe
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:44 pm

dcajet wrote:
Besides high CASM and small-ish capacity, there is another reason Austral is considering phasing out its E190s: the high cost of maintenance. Quite the same tune we have heard from JetBlue and others.


UX used the same argument to schedule getting rid of the E jets. (moving to a Boeing-only fleet, B738 for shot haul)
 
AtomicGarden
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:37 am

jbs2886 wrote:
AtomicGarden wrote:
Yes, E Jets are likely to be replaced by bigger aircraft. While I'd love to see some CSeries in AU's colours, it is more likely to be swapped with 737s. It is said that the MAX will go for AR and the NGs will find a new home with AU. Partly fleet rationalization, partly need for capacity. The very link says AR/AU carried 30% more pax than 2 years ago. Also, E Jets weren't the most popular with pilots who thought of them of a downgrade from larger MD's.

AR has a long and good relationship with Boeing, E190's are mostly owned, I'm sure we can sell them and get good deals from Boeing.

All in all, this is good news, but in very early stages.


Will AR be getting more than 11 (or thereabouts) 737MAXs? I would think they are preparing a rather decent expansion to fend off flybondi and Norwegian?


No words so far, but I think it's a given. Wouldn't be surprised to see a follow up order with a mix of NG and MAX.

Mind you, while I think a MAX+787 fleet would be terrific, I tend to like Airbus more, specially long haul; AFAIK an A350/A330Neo is not necessarily impossible (this is not just my wishful thinking).
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 9189
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:45 am

If many E190 operators are doing/considering this, who will buy all these planes ?

Is Boeing starting a new leasing business of E-Jets I haven't heard about ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
OlafW
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:28 am

Jayafe wrote:
B738 for shot haul


Would that be routes between airports close to each other like EZE/AEP-MVD or USH-PUQ?
SCNR
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7959
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:16 pm

This order by Austral has been suspect since day 1 of political meddling in Argentina and in Brazil. It likely wasn’t the right airplane for their needs from the start, so it isn’t surprising they might be looking to upgauge.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
dcajet
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:44 pm

OlafW wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
B738 for shot haul


Would that be routes between airports close to each other like EZE/AEP-MVD or USH-PUQ?
SCNR


In AR's network, 738s are truly "all terrain" - they fly short segments such as AEP-MVD (25 minutes) to EZE-LIM or EZE-CCS (not currently operating).
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos