Welcome to the August edition of the Australian Aviation Thread. Please continue to add your comments below. Link to last thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1367151

A busy month ahead
Virgin Group FY16/17 results announced 10 August 2017
Qantas Group FY16/17 results announced 25 August 2017
Parts arriving for first Qantas 787-9, shouldn't be too long until we see final assembly

Link to QF Fleet Thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1368283

Latest on QF 787-9's

First delivery 17th October, will overnight in Hawaii, arrives in SYD 20 October
Planned Delivery dates - #2 - 1 December, #3 - 31 December, #4 - 22 February 18, #5 - 6 July 18, #6 - 22 August 18
Domestic sectors to be operated November to early December - trans con and golden triangle - not confirmed by QF yet
MEL-LAX (QF95/96) from 15 Dec - 6 weekly, 5 weekly 3 May -27 June 18
MEL-LAX (QF93/94) will see 3 weekly A388 and 2 weekly 789 12 Feb -24 March 18
MEL-PER-LHR from 24 March 18

Summary of last thread

Retirement of QF 744 VH-OJM, fleet now down to 10
CZ to add 3 weekly CAN-CNS from December
FJ begins NAN-ADL
Proposed new airport in S/E MEL
QF starts repainting 738's and QFlink aircraft
Potential new Asian routes
VA starts MEL-HKG, plans SYD-HKG, BNE-HKG
VA plans to launch new business class by end of year for 737's as A332's will be deployed internationally
QF to reduce A388 MEL-LAX Feb/Mar, A388 to be deployed elsewhere
BNE diversions due to low visibility
VA tinkers with their frequent fliers
Donghai Airlines applies for 3 weekly SZX-DRW from September 17
LATAM adds Asia codeshares on QF from SYD, domestic from MEL
Passenger checks a single can of beer of QF MEL-PER flight
CZ increases PER, 5 weekly A332 to A333
VA to add 2 extra weekly ADL-ASP-DRW flights from 5 Sep 17
SQ217/218 back to 77W for NW17/18
QF 747 tech issues
Tianjin applies for 2 weekly CKG-CGO-SYD and CKG-NKG-MEL
QF has no plans to upgrade business class on 737's
VA 737MAX order
QF charters
OZ upgrades to A388 on ICN-SYD for entire NW17/18
SQ Cargo operates one off Australia to South Africa flight
SQ to 5 daily to SYD from 1 Dec 17 to 31 Jan 18
SQ215/216 to go to 772 form A333 from 1 March 18
VA offer MEL-HKG for under $400
Disruptive passenger on QF PER-BNE redeye, returns to PER
SQ adjusts schedule on SIN-CBR-WLG
SYD sees 9.7% increase in international passengers, 3.6% domestic in June
QR to start DOH-SYD-CBR 77W service from 12 Feb 18
QF A388 tech issues in DXB, charters EK plane for DXB-SYD
QF to operate seasonal SYD-KIX 3 weekly 14 Dec - 24 March 18
QF looking at PER-AKL year round and MEL-DPS
Japan arrivals up 13.5% over the past year
VA planning upgrade on drink/meal service across domestic, expected launch end of August
VA planning 2 China routes, 1 more to Asia no timeline
Police uncover terror threat to being down a Middle East bound plane
QF29/30 MEL-HKG goes back to 744
Costs, 787's key to QF smooth flight path
REX to resume Adelaide to Port Augusta

Would the 25th be a good time to hear more about a potential A380 refurbishment program from Qantas?

Regarding the extra security measures, I didn't notice anything at SYD on Friday night. But at BNE on Monday morning my bag was randomly searched after X-ray and they had a make shift screened off area infront of the Virgin Check in area where they were randomly selecting people for something (since it was screened off, I've got no idea what).

AsiaTravel wrote:

Would the 25th be a good time to hear more about a potential A380 refurbishment program from Qantas?

I would say so, I would expect a few announcements that day such as

A380 refurbs. details on redeployment
789 domestic flights
next 789 route

The alleged target of the mincer bombing was an Etihad flight

The bomb plotters attempted to get device on an international flight but failed

Plans were changed to target a domestic flight

An Etihad flight from Sydney to Abu Dhabi, with as many as 500 passengers and crew on board, was the target of the alleged terror plot according to The Daily Telegraph.
The Australian understands the men were allegedly intending to use a kitchen mincer to help conceal an “improvised gas-based” ­device. It is understood the device, which may have expelled gas or exploded, could have been concealed in the hollow base of a mincer. Travel documentation and handwritten notes were among items seized from the properties raided at the weekend, suggesting the men may have been preparing to book tickets.
The ABC reported last night the men tried to board an inter­national flight previously and failed, causing them to change their target to a domestic flight

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 98a8ebc5ef

the extra security measures, which will take extra time, will effect short haul routes like SYD/CBR. you can drive SYD/CBR is well under 3 hours. When you now need to plan to arrive at SYD 2 hours before departure, add in actual flying time, plus potential delays & wait for bags if check any, driving is much more convenient.

Of course public servants, will love it as getting paid sitting around Qantas Club. It will possibly cost Qantas/Virgin more in booze & food for those sitting in Qantas/Virgin Clubs.

Bit like LAX/LAS. In USA because they've had very long queues at airports for at least 15 years, it's been faster to drive LAX/LAS than fly.

Even if enhanced security screening becomes the norm on domestic flights - I suspect the queues will settle down as security officials and the public adjust.

In Europe and the US a lot of time and effort is put into explaining what you need to do at the security checkpoint. Even for frequent flyers it's very easy to forget what the local procedure is (e.g. in the UK you need to take iPads, kindles, laptops and spare batteries out of your bags and put them flat on the tray - but depending on your shoes you can keep them on. However, in the USA only laptops need to come out of your bag but for everyone without TSA precheck between the ages of 12 and 70 your shoes need to come off and go through the X-ray).

Simple things like tables and chairs airside beyond the screening point will significantly increase the flow - allowing people to pick their trays up from the scanner and move away to sort themselves out (repack things into bags, put belts and shoes back on). Some airports in Europe (especially STN and LGW) have this repacking area down to a very fine art. Even simple things (which are quick and easy to fix) like a lack of plastic trays will slow the screening process down substantially. BOS and LGA could really improve their flow at the security checkpoints with a few hundred dollars worth of additional trays.

USAOZ - I think that you'll be surprised how few public servants have QC access. Many of those at the executive level pay grades don't have access unless they have personally paid for a membership.

VA to streamline schedule for MEL-HKG for NW17/18

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austral ... t-schedule

VA's new 737 business class could actually be like Jetblue's mint, as MH will have something very similar in their MAX 10s, but with all seats having direct aisle access. Thompson are now finishing off the design for them.

SQ to send A388 to MEL In December for SQ217/218

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -dec-2017/

MH looking at adding double daily PER flights, all operated by 737 and returning to BNE into the future. BNE would not start until second half of 2018 or even 2019 due to shortage of widebody aircraft

http://www.airlineratings.com/news/1375 ... d-says-ceo

qf789 wrote:

VA to streamline schedule for MEL-HKG for NW17/18

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austral ... t-schedule

I just flew this route on VA last night. Some observations...

1. Checkin in HKG still needs a bit of work - they definitely need to improve the service to business pax
2. HNA staffed counters so perhaps still learning the ropes but again, far too slow
3. They were offering at-checkin upgrades to J for payment - I know 10 of the 20 J seats were sold prior to checkin and believe about 8 more got paid upgrades; probably a good way to get some credibility and earn some extra revenue on a new route
4. Excessive delay (2.5 hours) for a potential fog-out at MEL; it was absurd given QF and CX flights leaving at a similar time left on time and experienced no arrival delay - not good enough
5. Economy was about 95 per cent full, so while yields may not be great (which we don't actually know for sure) it seems loads are (admittedly, this is one flight).
6. Economy service was pretty excellent actually, with possibly the nicest economy dinner service I have ever experienced; flight attendants were excellent and super friendly, including one HNA representative

If this is any indication, it bodes well, especially if they can get a consistent schedule (and daily!). They'll soone have an HNA Group lounge out by the 201-220 gates so I suspect they'll consistently be located out there, which can be a bit of a pain transferring all the way from checkin.

I did notice one additional security feature in HKG - they re-checked all carry-on very thoroughly in the jetbridge gangway. Took an extra few minutes but something I haven't seen in a while so asusme it's part of the enhanced security, and was much more thorough than at the usual security screening.

Some Scoot services are currently been subbed by SQ 772's due to what I have been told of engine issues in the Scoot fleet. MEL has been subbed the past 2 days, PER today and SYD tomorrow. From what I have been told it will last at least a week

aerokiwi wrote:

I just flew this route on VA last night. Some observations...

1. Checkin in HKG still needs a bit of work - they definitely need to improve the service to business pax
2. HNA staffed counters so perhaps still learning the ropes but again, far too slow
3. They were offering at-checkin upgrades to J for payment - I know 10 of the 20 J seats were sold prior to checkin and believe about 8 more got paid upgrades; probably a good way to get some credibility and earn some extra revenue on a new route
4. Excessive delay (2.5 hours) for a potential fog-out at MEL; it was absurd given QF and CX flights leaving at a similar time left on time and experienced no arrival delay - not good enough
5. Economy was about 95 per cent full, so while yields may not be great (which we don't actually know for sure) it seems loads are (admittedly, this is one flight).
6. Economy service was pretty excellent actually, with possibly the nicest economy dinner service I have ever experienced; flight attendants were excellent and super friendly, including one HNA representative

If this is any indication, it bodes well, especially if they can get a consistent schedule (and daily!). They'll soone have an HNA Group lounge out by the 201-220 gates so I suspect they'll consistently be located out there, which can be a bit of a pain transferring all the way from checkin.

I did notice one additional security feature in HKG - they re-checked all carry-on very thoroughly in the jetbridge gangway. Took an extra few minutes but something I haven't seen in a while so asusme it's part of the enhanced security, and was much more thorough than at the usual security screening.

Will the HU flight attendant/representative be a pernament fixture? Quite a costly excercises if you ask me, I'm sure that VA should have atleast one Cantonese/Mandarin speaking FA on the HKG flights.

Australian bound flights always have that extra manual bag check at the gate, so nothing new there.

Definately think that the flights need to be daily in order to compete with QF and CX, CX have beefed up its MEL offering. Would love it if CX refurbishes its own lounge at MEL, with JL, UL and LA set to join the Oneworld family at MEL maybe open a OW lounge for CX, MH, QR, UL, JL and LA? The QF lounge is already restricted as it is!

aerokiwi wrote:

qf789 wrote:

VA to streamline schedule for MEL-HKG for NW17/18

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austral ... t-schedule

I just flew this route on VA last night. Some observations...

1. Checkin in HKG still needs a bit of work - they definitely need to improve the service to business pax
2. HNA staffed counters so perhaps still learning the ropes but again, far too slow
3. They were offering at-checkin upgrades to J for payment - I know 10 of the 20 J seats were sold prior to checkin and believe about 8 more got paid upgrades; probably a good way to get some credibility and earn some extra revenue on a new route
4. Excessive delay (2.5 hours) for a potential fog-out at MEL; it was absurd given QF and CX flights leaving at a similar time left on time and experienced no arrival delay - not good enough
5. Economy was about 95 per cent full, so while yields may not be great (which we don't actually know for sure) it seems loads are (admittedly, this is one flight).
6. Economy service was pretty excellent actually, with possibly the nicest economy dinner service I have ever experienced; flight attendants were excellent and super friendly, including one HNA representative

If this is any indication, it bodes well, especially if they can get a consistent schedule (and daily!). They'll soone have an HNA Group lounge out by the 201-220 gates so I suspect they'll consistently be located out there, which can be a bit of a pain transferring all the way from checkin.

I did notice one additional security feature in HKG - they re-checked all carry-on very thoroughly in the jetbridge gangway. Took an extra few minutes but something I haven't seen in a while so asusme it's part of the enhanced security, and was much more thorough than at the usual security screening.

Years ago V-Australia ditched Amadeus Altea as their DCS as it was joint developed by QF (and BA initially but they pulled out) and Amadesus. Virgin Blue was still using Navatair which was hard to shift to a full service model. They instead adopted Sabre like their partner EY, albeit a cheaper version. And they are paying the price, the cheap version of Sabre is a Res system you can Checkin on. Incredbaly slow with a rediculous number of steps to check in and perform basic checkin functions. It also is partially the reason behind their poor domestic Checkin experience with development costs of CUSS bag drop and kiosk applications being high. Meanwhile many carriers have adopted Altea to great success - CX,SQ,SA,GA etc. Equally other carriers use Sabre to the full extent - AM,EY, but the correct version for their business model.

qf789 wrote:

MH looking at adding double daily PER flights, all operated by 737 and returning to BNE into the future. BNE would not start until second half of 2018 or even 2019 due to shortage of widebody aircraft

http://www.airlineratings.com/news/1375 ... d-says-ceo

So they are downgrading to two 737's daily or one A330 and one 737 daily?

V8CHRGD wrote:

qf789 wrote:

MH looking at adding double daily PER flights, all operated by 737 and returning to BNE into the future. BNE would not start until second half of 2018 or even 2019 due to shortage of widebody aircraft

http://www.airlineratings.com/news/1375 ... d-says-ceo

So they are downgrading to two 737's daily or one A330 and one 737 daily?

The route is currently operated 1 daily operated by A333 or 738 depending on season. Another daily service is planned operated by the 738. Operating 2 daily 738 will increase capacity by around 17% over operating 1 daily A333. As previously mentioned PER has mentioned as a possible 737MAX10 route

Today's QF11 SYD-LAX operated by VH-OJU has diverted to HNL, appears to be medical

http://theqantassource.com/qantas-b747- ... diversion/

qf789 wrote:

Today's QF11 SYD-LAX operated by VH-OJU has diverted to HNL, appears to be medical

http://theqantassource.com/qantas-b747- ... diversion/

Thanks for clarifying. Although i personally would love to add a 737 MAX to the 'aircraft flown on' list, i think most people would prefer a larger plane for that type of International flight. Perhaps giving more customers to Air Asia X with the A333 they use on the same route?

V8CHRGD wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Today's QF11 SYD-LAX operated by VH-OJU has diverted to HNL, appears to be medical

http://theqantassource.com/qantas-b747- ... diversion/

Thanks for clarifying. Although i personally would love to add a 737 MAX to the 'aircraft flown on' list, i think most people would prefer a larger plane for that type of International flight. Perhaps giving more customers to Air Asia X with the A333 they use on the same route?

There's no doubt MH has been the poor performer in PER though its a combination of both Malindo and AirAsia X plus a poor local economy as well. Going double daily 737's is probably the right way to go, its the right aircraft for the route whereas the A333 probably is a struggle during quieter times to fill and 737 flights can be adjusted to meet the required demand better.

V8CHRGD wrote:

Thanks for clarifying. Although i personally would love to add a 737 MAX to the 'aircraft flown on' list, i think most people would prefer a larger plane for that type of International flight. Perhaps giving more customers to Air Asia X with the A333 they use on the same route?

Notwithstanding that the vast majority of customers neither know nor care what plane they're on, those in the know would take a 737 over D7 A330. Their A330 configuration with 9 abreast seating is one of the most cramped in the sky. It's Q400 levels of comfort.

Any word on Malindo expanding in Australia, from DPS or KUL? I did hear they have appointed airport staff in MEL.

Malindo to launch MEL-KUL, Batik Indonesia to launch SYD-DPS in Q4 2017. Batik Indonesia to launch MEL-DPS 1H 2018.

qf789 wrote:

V8CHRGD wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Today's QF11 SYD-LAX operated by VH-OJU has diverted to HNL, appears to be medical

http://theqantassource.com/qantas-b747- ... diversion/

Thanks for clarifying. Although i personally would love to add a 737 MAX to the 'aircraft flown on' list, i think most people would prefer a larger plane for that type of International flight. Perhaps giving more customers to Air Asia X with the A333 they use on the same route?

There's no doubt MH has been the poor performer in PER though its a combination of both Malindo and AirAsia X plus a poor local economy as well. Going double daily 737's is probably the right way to go, its the right aircraft for the route whereas the A333 probably is a struggle during quieter times to fill and 737 flights can be adjusted to meet the required demand better.

MH could better utilise the A330 within Asia - they were on the lookout recently for secondhand A330 "at the right price" for that purpose.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/54053-malaysia-airlines-to-swap-out-b737-capacity-for-widebodies
https://centreforaviation.com/insights/analysis/malaysia-airlines-again-adjusts-its-widebody-strategy-to-resume-long-haul-growth-in-2018-350143

Crazy to think it was only around 10 years ago that MH was operating 747s into Perth. Though it will be nice to hopefully see a daylight service back if they go double daily.

LamboAston wrote:

VA's new 737 business class could actually be like Jetblue's mint, as MH will have something very similar in their MAX 10s, but with all seats having direct aisle access. Thompson are now finishing off the design for them.

Max 10s yes. 738s? the J seats might take up 1/2 the damn plane.

ben175 wrote:

Crazy to think it was only around 10 years ago that MH was operating 747s into Perth. Though it will be nice to hopefully see a daylight service back if they go double daily.

True but back then they where the only airline to fly the route, increased competition along with the 2 crashes in 2014 along with other issues has changed that completely

Qantas plans to reapply for J/V with AA

QF/EK alliance up for renewal in coming months, PER-LHR will not be included in the renewal

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-hopes-t ... nt-venture

downdata wrote:

LamboAston wrote:

VA's new 737 business class could actually be like Jetblue's mint, as MH will have something very similar in their MAX 10s, but with all seats having direct aisle access. Thompson are now finishing off the design for them.

Max 10s yes. 738s? the J seats might take up 1/2 the damn plane.

Thompson have released a new design of narrow body herringbone seats in the last couple of days, which would work, but as you say, would take up a lot of the plane, although not as much as you might expect. See this page
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... ess-class/

There has been suggestions at the CAPA Summit in Sydney that there could be new domestic entrants still possible in the Australian market, a true ULCC or a start up from the Chinese

http://www.airlineratings.com/news/1378 ... ence-told-

Australian Airline Pilots Association is pushing for a US TSA style approaching on airport screening which would also include passengers ID's being checked on domestic flights and also for airport workers to be screened such as cleaners, catering etc

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national ... urity.html

I would hope airport workers are already screened ! I used to work for a freight forwarder and we were screened and that was a decade plus ago.

We do not need ID check at the gate. It will solve nothing.

A better thing to do would be to scan/screen all airport workers going airside.

jupiter2 wrote:

I would hope airport workers are already screened ! I used to work for a freight forwarder and we were screened and that was a decade plus ago.

Nope - maybe 30-60% screened

smi0006 wrote:

jupiter2 wrote:

I would hope airport workers are already screened ! I used to work for a freight forwarder and we were screened and that was a decade plus ago.

Nope - maybe 30-60% screened

That's really not good enough, especially in the current environment.

luftaom wrote:

USAOZ - I think that you'll be surprised how few public servants have QC access. Many of those at the executive level pay grades don't have access unless they have personally paid for a membership.

I know at the agency I work for (one of the largest ones), very few staff below Senior Executive level would qualify for a funded lounge membership. Not sure if this is still the case, but my employer would only fund a QF club membership for non-SES staff if you were required to travel on a regular basis, at least twice a month. With technology like Telepresence & online meetings being used much more heavily than in the past, it's mostly SES level staff that travel on regular basis these days, the rank & file (at least in my section) barely get a chance to travel anymore.

melpax wrote:

luftaom wrote:

USAOZ - I think that you'll be surprised how few public servants have QC access. Many of those at the executive level pay grades don't have access unless they have personally paid for a membership.

I know at the agency I work for (one of the largest ones), very few staff below Senior Executive level would qualify for a funded lounge membership. Not sure if this is still the case, but my employer would only fund a QF club membership for non-SES staff if you were required to travel on a regular basis, at least twice a month. With technology like Telepresence & online meetings being used much more heavily than in the past, it's mostly SES level staff that travel on regular basis these days, the rank & file (at least in my section) barely get a chance to travel anymore.

There was something in the MSM several days ago about an APS travel costs blowout - by many millions of $. There cannot be that many "SES" staff can there? That is head of each department and a handful of his/her deputies is it?

In my agency alone, you'd be looking at at around 200-250 staff at the SES level, you also have some senior EL2 level staff with national responsibilities. Bearing in mind there are around 20,000 staff in the agency.

Another development in the suspected terrorist bombing on a Etihad aircraft

It is now being reported that the suspected device made it as far as Sydney's International Terminal checkin area

the device made it as far as Sydney International Airport terminal’s check-in area and that a passenger was “queried about the weight of the luggage at the check-in counter and learnt it was too heavy”.
The report suggests the bag was never checked in.

http://www.news.com.au/national/crime/u ... 1746310579

JQ benefiting from best global economy in 10 years

JQ to announce a direct Australia - China route in the next couple of weeks

http://www.airlineratings.com/news/1383 ... -says-ceo-

A significant milestone last week with the arrival of all the major assemblies for QF first 787-9 on the Dreamlifter at the Everett facility near Seattle. This week the assemblies will be moved to the Assembly Line and the assembly process will start on the 3rd Aug. The aircraft is due to complete assembly and roll out of the factory at the end of August.

EK413

qf789 wrote:

JQ benefiting from best global economy in 10 years

JQ to announce a direct Australia - China route in the next couple of weeks

http://www.airlineratings.com/news/1383 ... -says-ceo-

Will be exMEL!

Passenger tries to light up on Tigerair flight from BNE

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/passenger-tri ... 01734.html

Virtually no one below the SES level has Qantas Club membership.

Of course in practice it doesn't work this way, but technically all APS must be impartial between QF and VA and book the most cost effective option.

kriskim wrote:

qf789 wrote:

JQ benefiting from best global economy in 10 years

JQ to announce a direct Australia - China route in the next couple of weeks

http://www.airlineratings.com/news/1383 ... -says-ceo-

Will be exMEL!

So any takers for Melbourne to Shanghai Pudong?

Flyingsottsman wrote:

kriskim wrote:

qf789 wrote:

JQ benefiting from best global economy in 10 years

JQ to announce a direct Australia - China route in the next couple of weeks

http://www.airlineratings.com/news/1383 ... -says-ceo-

Will be exMEL!

So any takers for Melbourne to Shanghai Pudong?

Won't be a Big 3 city, will be a secondary city route. Would be exciting to see flights to either PVG or PEK though!

Industry discussion seems to have this as a MEL-Zhengzhou route but we will see.

Will be interesting to see how it goes, as MEL is the largest unserved international market out of Zhengzhou.

jupiter2 wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

jupiter2 wrote:

I would hope airport workers are already screened ! I used to work for a freight forwarder and we were screened and that was a decade plus ago.

Nope - maybe 30-60% screened

That's really not good enough, especially in the current environment.

That's a pretty horrifying statistic. Airport/airline staff being associated with terrorism is an establish risk which every so often comes to focus, it was a key factor in Lockerbie and various plots such as the planned 2006 "wave attack" on the atlantic.

Being a Five Eyes country will always bring attention from terrorists and in a world where bomb making knowledge can be easily shared securely via messaging services and the dark web, being a big island far away is no longer the defence it once was.

Another story on VA's expected loss next week

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... in-439802/

There is an active thread for there results, link below

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1370277

redroo wrote:

We do not need ID check at the gate. It will solve nothing.

A better thing to do would be to scan/screen all airport workers going airside.

I agree redroo. So you DO/DON'T look like your ID pic?. BIG DEAL. IDs can be still valid AFTER 10YEARS..Peoples 'looks' can 'change' over time'!!! THIS ACHIEVES NOTHING in terms of WHAT the person CARRIES ON THEM/WITH THEM, WHICH IS WHAT WILL DO THE DAMAGE, REGARDLESS of their ID PIC. 100% SCREENING FOR EVERYONE, INCLUDING WORKERS. AND EVERYTHING, INCLUDING BAGS, VEHICLES ETC, WHICH ENTERS ANY AIRPORT AIRSIDE ZONE. Sadly this will never happen as EVERYTHING involving SAFETY is done on a COST V BENEFIT analysis, and ONLY REACTIVE (AFTER AN EVENT), AND NOT PROACTIVE (TO PREVENT AN EVENT)..SAME OLD STORY..MONETARY COST TO BUSINESSES OVERRIDE HUMAN LIVES!!...THE MONETARY COST WILL BE PASSED ON TO THE PUBLIC, AND THE CHEAP ARSE PUBLIC HATE THAT. ITS THE CIRCLE OF LIFE!! LOL What i'm saying is...HUMAN GREED RULES EVERYTHING, SO NOTHING REALLY CHANGES.