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VC10er wrote:This might be a short thread but I need to ask because I don't understand many airframe alphanumericals that have been shortened to cannote variants of a type. Also, just curious why some of these letters have been chosen...(if there is reasoning behind the selected letter, like LR being Long Range)
Here are just a few examples, I'd welcome more, as it would help me understand some discussions better when I read threads.
(Apologies if this is in the wrong forum)
Why is a 777-300 often referred to as a 77W?
Is a 77W different than other variations of 777-300s? If so, what are the others? Why "W"?
A350 is sometimes referred to as A35J, as is the 78J (if I am tracking correctly) it seems like "J" stands for "1000", is there a letter for the A350-900?
I totally get abbreviations such as 788, 789, but 737s seem to be all over the place, e.g; 738, 739 but the MAX versions always use "MAX 9" and "MAX 10" - why not abbreviate to 73MJ (or something)
Same for A319, A320 and A321, I haven't come across abbreviations for the series- yet there are so many variants to get confused over. And what does "CEO" stand for? (NEO seems obvious)
Also (and I could be wrong) but Boeing types SEEM more often abbreviated than Airbus types. Although I could be wrong.
Some are easy to understand: 748i or 748F, some are far less easy for me to understand what the abbreviation is for which aircraft and what features/differences trigger an additional character/designation (LR, ER, I get) but what is the difference between a 772A or 772B? Or A330/A333?
Please excuse my ignorance after all these years, and thank you for your expertise and help!
VC10er
Boeing doesn't determine this. The determination is made by IATA who publish an annual "Coding Directory" that incorporates all of this and more.
The "W" and "L" in the 77W and 77L don't stand for anything particular. Similarly the "H" in 73H or numerous other examples. These were selected by a committee who probably used similar logic to what was mentioned here when coming up with them, but officially are just random selections.
Revelation wrote:Yes, the 777-300ER is different operationally than the old 777-300. For instance it is allowed to take on more fuel. Therefore there is a need to note the difference in various forms such as fueling sheets.
VC10er wrote:Wow- this is amazing, thanks!
Aside from 762, 763 and 764, do other designations exist for the 767? (Aside from tankers or F-reighters)
VC10er wrote:How about the A340?
OA940 wrote:35J/35K, 78J/78K = A350-1000/787-10
BENAir01 wrote:I mean everyone has pretty much got it on the spot. Codes tend to be obvious (A340-500 = 345, 767-300 = 763) but when we get to more planes that need extra codes, we get things like 77W, 7M8, etc. and then it gets confusing.
Bhoy wrote:A 77W is a 777-300ER (extended range) variant, which will have extra Fuel tanks (and therefore different operating weights) than a regular 777-300.
Why is a 777-300 often referred to as a 77W?
KarelXWB wrote:Bhoy wrote:A 77W is a 777-300ER (extended range) variant, which will have extra Fuel tanks (and therefore different operating weights) than a regular 777-300.
That doesn't answer the original question though:Why is a 777-300 often referred to as a 77W?
hOMSaR wrote:OA940 wrote:35J/35K, 78J/78K = A350-1000/787-10
There is no 78K, its designation is 78X.
OA940 wrote:
Really? I've seen that as 78K a few times here...
Why is a 777-300 often referred to as a 77W?
redzeppelin wrote:Do we have any official word on the Max10 yet?
KarelXWB wrote:OA940 wrote:
Really? I've seen that as 78K a few times here...
For some reason people kept repeating that mistake. Official designation code is 78X.
VC10er wrote:This might be a short thread but I need to ask because I don't understand many airframe alphanumericals that have been shortened to cannote variants of a type. Also, just curious why some of these letters have been chosen...(if there is reasoning behind the selected letter, like LR being Long Range)
Here are just a few examples, I'd welcome more, as it would help me understand some discussions better when I read threads.
(Apologies if this is in the wrong forum)
Why is a 777-300 often referred to as a 77W?
Is a 77W different than other variations of 777-300s? If so, what are the others? Why "W"?
A350 is sometimes referred to as A35J, as is the 78J (if I am tracking correctly) it seems like "J" stands for "1000", is there a letter for the A350-900?
I totally get abbreviations such as 788, 789, but 737s seem to be all over the place, e.g; 738, 739 but the MAX versions always use "MAX 9" and "MAX 10" - why not abbreviate to 73MJ (or something)
Same for A319, A320 and A321, I haven't come across abbreviations for the series- yet there are so many variants to get confused over. And what does "CEO" stand for? (NEO seems obvious)
Also (and I could be wrong) but Boeing types SEEM more often abbreviated than Airbus types. Although I could be wrong.
Some are easy to understand: 748i or 748F, some are far less easy for me to understand what the abbreviation is for which aircraft and what features/differences trigger an additional character/designation (LR, ER, I get) but what is the difference between a 772A or 772B? Or A330/A333?
Please excuse my ignorance after all these years, and thank you for your expertise and help!
VC10er
MO11 wrote:KarelXWB wrote:OA940 wrote:
Really? I've seen that as 78K a few times here...
For some reason people kept repeating that mistake. Official designation code is 78X.
Official where, Airliners.net?
redzeppelin wrote:Why is a 777-300 often referred to as a 77W?
My understanding (based entirely only on my own logic -- but it helps me sleep at night!)
737-700 = 73G because "G" is the 7th letter in the English alphabet. The previous pattern was set with abbreviations like 732, 733, etc, but it would be ambiguous to use "737" as the abbreviation for the -700.
737-800 = 73H because "H" is the 8th letter in the English alphabet, and followed the precedent of 73G.
E is the 5th letter, R is the 18th, W is 23rd. Therefore, E+R=W. So the 777-300ER became the 77W. So not entirely random. 772 and 773 were already in use for the non-ER models. 77E was taken by the -200ER. So the obvious designations were taken. 77W works as well as anything. And 77L for the -200LR makes a nice pair with the 77E. I just wish we had something similar for the 767. I've seen 76W used before for the 767-300ER, but I think that is one airline's internal code rather than an official designation.
MO11 wrote:KarelXWB wrote:OA940 wrote:
Really? I've seen that as 78K a few times here...
For some reason people kept repeating that mistake. Official designation code is 78X.
Official where, Airliners.net?
VC10er wrote:And I thought this would be a very short thread! THANK YOU EVERYONE for your insights. This will help me a lot when there are discussions regarding aircraft orders especially.
I think we should make a final A.net decision on the 737 MAX-10 as it's way to long to type out and in caps. I like 7MX (M for MAX, and X for the Roman numeral for 10) however 7MX without the center number is slightly confusing, it sadly just doesn't communicate "737"
aerolimani wrote:The J, K, and X thing is particularly confusing for aircraft that are -1000 or -10.
Here's why I think that happens:
J = 10th letter of the alphabet
K = kilo = 1000
X = 10 in Roman numerals
So, three different systems of representing 10 or 1000. I've also seen people using K for -11 or -1100, just to add to the confusion.
Once again, I really miss the days of mouseover text for all the codes on a.net. It encouraged everyone on a.net to use the same code. Now, it's a bit of a free-for-all, and definitely creates confusion.
KGRB wrote:aerolimani wrote:The J, K, and X thing is particularly confusing for aircraft that are -1000 or -10.
Here's why I think that happens:
J = 10th letter of the alphabet
K = kilo = 1000
X = 10 in Roman numerals
So, three different systems of representing 10 or 1000. I've also seen people using K for -11 or -1100, just to add to the confusion.
Once again, I really miss the days of mouseover text for all the codes on a.net. It encouraged everyone on a.net to use the same code. Now, it's a bit of a free-for-all, and definitely creates confusion.
I really wish Boeing and Airbus would go back to starting at -100 for their respective models. The whole starting-at-8-or-800-thing really makes no sense.
seabosdca wrote:Codes are used in part to let ground controllers know the dimensions of the aircraft they're controlling. In that light, it's easy to understand that "77W" = 777 with "Winglets." The only change in dimensions between the 773 and 77W is the longer wingspan created by the 77W's raked wingtips.
SPREE34 wrote:MO11 wrote:KarelXWB wrote:
For some reason people kept repeating that mistake. Official designation code is 78X.
Official where, Airliners.net?
That^^^^^^^^^^
And if someone says "Official", you should question what "Official" means. The carrier owning the plane? ICAO? Manufacturer? Self appointed experts? The later being found here on a.net.
KarelXWB wrote:Bhoy wrote:A 77W is a 777-300ER (extended range) variant, which will have extra Fuel tanks (and therefore different operating weights) than a regular 777-300.
That doesn't answer the original question though:Why is a 777-300 often referred to as a 77W?
edmaircraft wrote:And then we get into airline codes for aircraft models with certain configurations, such as 737-8CT (WestJet 737-800 with winglets), 737-7H4 (Southwest Airlines 737-700 with winglets), 767-3Q8 (El Al 767-30 without winglets), 777-2B5(ER) (Korean Airlines 777-200 Extended Range), and so on...
VolvoBus wrote:edmaircraft wrote:And then we get into airline codes for aircraft models with certain configurations, such as 737-8CT (WestJet 737-800 with winglets), 737-7H4 (Southwest Airlines 737-700 with winglets), 767-3Q8 (El Al 767-30 without winglets), 777-2B5(ER) (Korean Airlines 777-200 Extended Range), and so on...
Airline codes are Boeing's designator for the operator who originally ordered the frames. Southwest's B737-700 are 7H4 if they were purchased new, winglets or not. If they bought a B737-700 originally ordered by WestJet, they would remain 737-7CT, regardless of winglets. Similarly, if El Al purchased B767-300 new,but with different engines, they would still be 767-3Q8.
VolvoBus wrote:edmaircraft wrote:And then we get into airline codes for aircraft models with certain configurations, such as 737-8CT (WestJet 737-800 with winglets), 737-7H4 (Southwest Airlines 737-700 with winglets), 767-3Q8 (El Al 767-30 without winglets), 777-2B5(ER) (Korean Airlines 777-200 Extended Range), and so on...
Airline codes are Boeing's designator for the operator who originally ordered the frames. Southwest's B737-700 are 7H4 if they were purchased new, winglets or not. If they bought a B737-700 originally ordered by WestJet, they would remain 737-7CT, regardless of winglets. Similarly, if El Al purchased B767-300 new,but with different engines, they would still be 767-3Q8.
edmaircraft wrote:And then we get into airline codes for aircraft models with certain configurations, such as 737-8CT (WestJet 737-800 with winglets), 737-7H4 (Southwest Airlines 737-700 with winglets), 767-3Q8 (El Al 767-30 without winglets), 777-2B5(ER) (Korean Airlines 777-200 Extended Range), and so on...