Aloha All,

Just read an article on Hawaii News Now that states Hawaiian Airlines is seeking $110,000 in restitution from a disruptive passenger who caused their HNL-JFK flight to divert back to HNL after he threatened to kill is girlfriend and children.

Link Below:
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3595 ... -passenger

I personally believe HA should look to collect on this diversion as it most likely cost them that much or more in fuel, crew and ground staff costs. Not to mention the significant delay to that flight and the return leg. It also sets a precedent for other passengers and hopefully makes them think twice about engaging in unruly behavior on board a commercial airliner. It is rather apparent this incident and resulting consequences rests squarely with the passenger but I wonder if all the negativity in the press about the airlines will impact the Judges decision?

$110,000 is a hefty chunk of change for your average citizen. I did a bit of quick research and it appears that restitution in this particular instance (criminal case) cannot be discharged should the defendant declare bankruptcy. Definitely an eye opener case for other would-be disruptive passengers.

77H

Why would it?? This guy was a Dimwit. He deserves to NEVER be able to fly commercially again

Banned for life. I'd ask for exactly what it cost HA. Not a penny less.

Must be banned for life!

I'm not even mad! HA deserves to get every cent from that man and it should be the least of his problems. Of note is that that flight goes by the callsign Hawaiian Five-0.

I am guessing that most people on this site will side with HA. We can all scream and yell about what we think should happen. I am more curious about what will actually happen. Will HA really push for this and set a precedent? Will other airlines follow if they do? Or will public sympathy get HA to drop the case? I am more curious what the actual outcome will be. Have other airlines gone though with seeking restitution? If so, what happened?

Banned for life means nothing. $110,000 means much.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

I'm not even mad! HA deserves to get every cent from that man and it should be the least of his problems. Of note is that that flight goes by the callsign Hawaiian Five-0.

Correct. HA 51 HNL-JFK. The return is HA51.

77H

bradyj23 wrote:

I am guessing that most people on this site will side with HA. We can all scream and yell about what we think should happen. I am more curious about what will actually happen. Will HA really push for this and set a precedent? Will other airlines follow if they do? Or will public sympathy get HA to drop the case? I am more curious what the actual outcome will be. Have other airlines gone though with seeking restitution? If so, what happened?

Brady, I appreciate the dose of reality that you have injected into this thread. Being a former Comair CSA, I identify emotionally with our earlier posters, but the reality here is that HA's attorneys and the dunderhead's lawyer will work out a settlement, the details of which none of us will ever know. However, I do agree that the dunderhead should be banned from traveling on Hawaiian for life.

77H wrote:

Aloha All,

$110,000 is a hefty chunk of change for your average citizen. I did a bit of quick research and it appears that restitution in this particular instance (criminal case) cannot be discharged should the defendant declare bankruptcy. Definitely an eye opener case for other would-be disruptive passengers.

77H

The article doesn't state whether this was a criminal or civil case, but if Hawaiian filed the claim, it's almost certainly the latter. Most (not all) civil judgments are dischargeable in bankruptcy.

SurlyBonds wrote:

77H wrote:

Aloha All,

$110,000 is a hefty chunk of change for your average citizen. I did a bit of quick research and it appears that restitution in this particular instance (criminal case) cannot be discharged should the defendant declare bankruptcy. Definitely an eye opener case for other would-be disruptive passengers.

77H

The article doesn't state whether this was a criminal or civil case, but if Hawaiian filed the claim, it's almost certainly the latter. Most (not all) civil judgments are dischargeable in bankruptcy.

Thanks for the clarification. I was unsure as "disrupting a flight crew" is a criminal charge. He received probation for that.

77H

I find it funny that some think that any such punishment would be a deterrent for future potential disruptive passengers. I mean...do disruptive passengers actually think about the consequences of their actions when they're doing these sorts of things?

[photoid][/photoid]

hOMSaR wrote:

I find it funny that some think that any such punishment would be a deterrent for future potential disruptive passengers. I mean...do disruptive passengers actually think about the consequences of their actions when they're doing these sorts of things?

Word gets out that causing a diversion is a hit to the wallet then yeah, people will get the message. They may be crazy but not stupid.

SkyVoice wrote:

bradyj23 wrote:

I am guessing that most people on this site will side with HA. We can all scream and yell about what we think should happen. I am more curious about what will actually happen. Will HA really push for this and set a precedent? Will other airlines follow if they do? Or will public sympathy get HA to drop the case? I am more curious what the actual outcome will be. Have other airlines gone though with seeking restitution? If so, what happened?

Brady, I appreciate the dose of reality that you have injected into this thread. Being a former Comair CSA, I identify emotionally with our earlier posters, but the reality here is that HA's attorneys and the dunderhead's lawyer will work out a settlement, the details of which none of us will ever know. However, I do agree that the dunderhead should be banned from traveling on Hawaiian for life.

He should be banned from all airlines.

william wrote:

Word gets out that causing a diversion is a hit to the wallet then yeah, people will get the message. They may be crazy but not stupid.

The number of people in prison (particularly in the US) would suggest that the word never gets out. Punishment as deterrent to others just doesn't work.

If the passenger has liability insurance or better yet, an umbrella policy, it's likely the insurance company will end up paying. So it won't really affect the passenger aside from increased insurance premiums.

I hope HA is able to recoup its costs, as well as other airlines in a similar situation.

SurlyBonds wrote:

77H wrote:

Aloha All,

$110,000 is a hefty chunk of change for your average citizen. I did a bit of quick research and it appears that restitution in this particular instance (criminal case) cannot be discharged should the defendant declare bankruptcy. Definitely an eye opener case for other would-be disruptive passengers.

77H

The article doesn't state whether this was a criminal or civil case, but if Hawaiian filed the claim, it's almost certainly the latter. Most (not all) civil judgments are dischargeable in bankruptcy.

Government fines are not dischargeable in chapter 7, nor are debts arising out of wilful and malicious conduct if the creditor (Hawaiian Airlines) objects during the bankruptcy proceedings. Wilful and malicious conduct has an expansive definition under the bankruptcy code - engaging in domestic violence on board an aircraft will qualify.

My sense is that Hawaiian is going after the guy to make an example of him and to deter other idiots out there. I doubt they believe they will see this guy pay, but discouraging future behavior from others might be worth the cost of litigation.

Virtual737 wrote:

william wrote:

Word gets out that causing a diversion is a hit to the wallet then yeah, people will get the message. They may be crazy but not stupid.

The number of people in prison (particularly in the US) would suggest that the word never gets out. Punishment as deterrent to others just doesn't work.

I completely agree. However, it sounds like this is less about punishment and more about the airline recouping the costs of the diversion. Then again, I agree with Virtual, in the sense that once the punishment involves the wallet in a big way, people's ears start to perk up.

As a once-upon-a-time speed demon on the roads, I wised up after receiving a speed ticket with an extremely high fine back in college.

77H