Interesting article about British Airways is the cover story for the Sunday Times Magazine. Link below (paywall)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/the- ... -qchj9jg5z

Here is a summary of the main points covered:

75,000 travellers who had their plans 'ruined' by May's IT collapse
Continuing strike action
Seat pitch reduction – less than FR
Only 45% of BA pax would recommend
BoB problems
Low staff morale
Resurgent US carriers taking business away

Article includes interview snippets with 'publicity shy' Alex Cruz. His prescription is to make BA premium at the front and not premium at the back i.e. 'densification' of 777 fleet etc etc. This strategy is lauded by some aviation experts as innovative and trashed by others as unclear.

How successful do you think this strategy will be? Level to cover DY threat and ramp it up if successful? LGW as a trial run for further cuts to come at LHR? Will the premium product ever really be premium again?

Here we go again... Another airline complaining about the competition.

Whatever happens at BA the Club World seats have to go. BA and IB need a uniform seat similar to the Cathay Pacific seats, its time BA stop relying on its crappy CW seats. First Class needs to become more exclusive at 8 seats, current the standard is 14 seats on their 777-200/300, A380 and 744's. The only good thing at BA is Terminal 5.

If Mr Cruz wants to make the Front End premium, he has a long way to go.Take LH as an example a great First Class product. Lots of YouTube videos show the quality of food presentation great cabin space,just 8 seats, unlike the 14 seats crammed in the BA product.A car ride out to the plane. My friend recently took BA First to EWR and was bussed out to a remote stand from T5 along with 40+ other people. BA has to be an airline people want to fly with and be value for money, its Premium product is not that. Have two friends who are crew and not striking they say morale is generally very poor at LHR, they do not trust management to lead them to a better future.

Another article appeared this morning on Travel weekly - link below.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... e-strategy

Cheers

Ben

Their J class product is one of the worst out there. EI's is one of the best I've used on the other hand. Maybe they could learn from their ulta profitable little sister here.

CrawleyBen wrote:

Another article appeared this morning on Travel weekly - link below.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... e-strategy

Cheers

Ben

This is pretty much The Times once but readable to those who don't subscribe.

Many thanks for posting!

So the article confirms that BA will be moving to direct aisle access on Club world and reduce First to 8 seats, just not anytime soon.

The problem with Alex Cruz is that he's coming from Vueling, and that has made quite an impact on his style. Most of these changes go against the BA brand philosophy. Customers are noticing this because it's as if BA were lying to them. Maybe meals on 2 hour flights was unnecessary, but you can't present yourself as "world class" and use the motto "To fly to serve" only to give your passengers something they'd expect from FR. No one is angry with FR because they're honest. BA should do the same.

BA is the one airline I really don't get..... They say they aim for the 'upper crust' of the clients, yet their First class is terribly sub-par, their J product is the worst out there (with not enough storage space to put your hand-bag away and thin, narrow seats), WTP is little more that what basic economy was 20 years ago, yet it's terribly expensive... and Y long-haul is considerably worse than that of DY. Short-haul the experience is miserable, with C up front offering less space than what FR does.
I can see that Alex Cruz's mantra is all about saving, cutting, and making more with less, but BA just is not VY and has to compete with world class airlines.... They no longer belong to the club sadly.

mrbonfire wrote:

Interesting article about British Airways is the cover story for the Sunday Times Magazine. Link below (paywall)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/the- ... -qchj9jg5z

Here is a summary of the main points covered:

75,000 travellers who had their plans 'ruined' by May's IT collapse
Continuing strike action
Seat pitch reduction – less than FR
Only 45% of BA pax would recommend
BoB problems
Low staff morale
Resurgent US carriers taking business away

Article includes interview snippets with 'publicity shy' Alex Cruz. His prescription is to make BA premium at the front and not premium at the back i.e. 'densification' of 777 fleet etc etc. This strategy is lauded by some aviation experts as innovative and trashed by others as unclear.

What is the proposed start date of making BA premium at the front?

There you go. http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/p ... 7-228/8421
Most of the changes will only be on LHR-JFK to start with and then SLOWLY rolled out to others next year.

People who are posting on here about the despicable low standard of Club World, miss one vital factor that, BA sells more business class seats as a proportion than almost if not any other airline. Whilst this is the case expect improvements to be fairly minor.

oldannyboy wrote:

BA is the one airline I really don't get..... They say they aim for the 'upper crust' of the clients, yet their First class is terribly sub-par, their J product is the worst out there (with not enough storage space to put your hand-bag away and thin, narrow seats), WTP is little more that what basic economy was 20 years ago, yet it's terribly expensive... and Y long-haul is considerably worse than that of DY. Short-haul the experience is miserable, with C up front offering less space than what FR does.
I can see that Alex Cruz's mantra is all about saving, cutting, and making more with less, but BA just is not VY and has to compete with world class airlines.... They no longer belong to the club sadly.

As I mentioned in another thread, I flew on BA (economy) in May from LHR to PHL on a clapped out 747. The crew spent most of the flight hidden in the galley, and managed a total of 2x drinks services for what was a 7 1/2 hour flight. There were a lot of grumbling passengers who had to keep getting up and asking for drinks etc which to my mind is not on, especially when your paying a fair old wedge to fly on this airline (regardless of which class you fly)

It makes me want to look elsewhere when long haul travel is concerned, as the airline give the impression that they don't care about their customers.

Cheers

Ben

Bongodog1964 wrote:

People who are posting on here about the despicable low standard of Club World, miss one vital factor that, BA sells more business class seats as a proportion than almost if not any other airline. Whilst this is the case expect improvements to be fairly minor.

Well said. People on Airliners and some (most?) travel blogs continually trash Club World, but it doesn't seem like the customers who actually buy tickets seem to care, so why should BA? If they can continue to pack 'em in (figuratively, at least), why change?

GripenFan wrote:

Bongodog1964 wrote:

People who are posting on here about the despicable low standard of Club World, miss one vital factor that, BA sells more business class seats as a proportion than almost if not any other airline. Whilst this is the case expect improvements to be fairly minor.

Well said. People on Airliners and some (most?) travel blogs continually trash Club World, but it doesn't seem like the customers who actually buy tickets seem to care, so why should BA? If they can continue to pack 'em in (figuratively, at least), why change?

Is BA profitable? If they are totally agree, customer are paying in a sustainable manner so they have found a balance between product and cost. If they are not profitable this is a different story, and time for a change in tact.

Alex is honestly destroying BA

Arion640 wrote:

Rumored that all east bound US transatlantic flights going overnight will be branded as sleeper services for premium passengers, only serving breakfast. So the idea is they all eat in the lounge before hand and don't eat a meal onboard.

I can almost hear the FAs going "it's bedtiiiiiime" walking up and down the aisle.

I flew TPA-LGW - admittedly not a lucrative route - in coach but I think it was the worst coach product I have flown on. I much prefer LH, KL, DL, UA, AA and AF (admittedly AF was Y+ so might not be valid) internationally than BA.

Arion640 wrote:

Rumored that all east bound US transatlantic flights going overnight will be branded as sleeper services for premium passengers, only serving breakfast. So the idea is they all eat in the lounge before hand and don't eat a meal onboard.

If the flight departs after 8 PM then sure no problem. It this change is for flights before 8 PM then that's just CHEAP and not very premium. Only my opinion of course, yours may differ..

Looks like Portland was lucky to get Delta to LHR.

berari wrote:

Arion640 wrote:

Rumored that all east bound US transatlantic flights going overnight will be branded as sleeper services for premium passengers, only serving breakfast. So the idea is they all eat in the lounge before hand and don't eat a meal onboard.

I can almost hear the FAs going "it's bedtiiiiiime" walking up and down the aisle.

JFC I hope not.

They're selling transcon Y tickets at under U$400, not hard to see why they cut so many services to coach pax.

CrawleyBen hit the spot when he mentioned J class service.
Several years ago ex JFK to LHR late departure.
Steward asked me what I would like to drink, Scotch and water please.
He returned with 2 minitues a large container of water.
Have a good flight sir!
That was the last I saw of any crew member until breakfast was served.
It would appear that BA's service has not improved.
Maybe they are going through a period like QF had some years ago.
Will be on BA ex LHR to Barcelona next week ,will review my previous comment as a result
In the meantime folks ,enjoy your next flight.

It remains to be seen what will become of the carrier. The introduction of Level is quite interesting in that it theoretically competes with service via LHR. Perhaps the future is for BA to become a true LCC itself and throw in the towel on premium service. No reason why the bankers couldn't live with DY's premium service.

speedbird52 wrote:

Alex is honestly destroying BA

I am sorry, fire him, but don't send it back to any Spanish airline. Please.

So when will the "Bloody Awful" nickname start flying again for BA?

Very recently back from a DEN-LHR return. Miserable conditions in Economy. Ancient 744's. Horribly uncomfortable seats and the seat pitch was the worst I've ever experienced.

And check in at Denver was incredibly slow. I honestly thought they were on a 1970's style work to rule in support of their striking colleagues.

Wife insisted we flew BA as it's the only direct option. But after that exerience she is now insisting on a different airline next time we go to London.

My only BA long haul experience was a LGW-MCO-LGW trip. It wasn't bad, but it was nothing more than thoroughly mediocre. I can vouch for the fact that the cabin crew completely disappeared for the majority of the flight.

I have however flown them quite a few times on short haul flights. Since they 'densified' the cabins and introduced BOB and fees for everything, there is simply no reason for me to choose them over Ryanair or EasyJet. Why pay (usually, but not always) noticeably more, for the exact same service you get on the LCCs? This especially applies to people like me who don't fly often enough to build status or loyalty to any particular airline/alliance.

I used to be happy to pay the extra, as I thought the 'perks' were worth it. More comfy seats, more legroom, free drinks (incl alcoholic), snacks, hot meals (depending on time of day), baggage allowance. All these things have been stripped away, without a corresponding lowering of fares. I'm envious of you guys in the USA that at least have the likes of JetBlue to choose from.

GripenFan wrote:

Bongodog1964 wrote:

People who are posting on here about the despicable low standard of Club World, miss one vital factor that, BA sells more business class seats as a proportion than almost if not any other airline. Whilst this is the case expect improvements to be fairly minor.

Well said. People on Airliners and some (most?) travel blogs continually trash Club World, but it doesn't seem like the customers who actually buy tickets seem to care, so why should BA? If they can continue to pack 'em in (figuratively, at least), why change?

The issue is, until the corp contract people start complaining or leaving there is no real incentive for BA to do much, I know a couple of large contracts are complaining/moving to other airlines, but even they, in the grand scheme of things, are small fry in the big picture.

I have never flown British Airways so I cannot offer an opinion, as I cannot have an opinion on something I don't personally know.

However, as I am curious about flying BA Club World, I can understand where some of the perceptions, observations, photos, and travel experiences based on what I read here via fellow a.net members come from.

Here are my questions:

+ If BA can/does sell many J seats in general, do they price less than their competitors overall due to the high-capacity configurations of Club World?

+ The limited personal storage space within the seat area seems to be a common observation/complaint of most. What are the overhead storage bin capabilities like for the high number of J passengers? Is there a higher cabin baggage allowance for Club World passengers?

+ East Coast USA - London no dinner service onboard? With only breakfast, is this morning meal a substantial offering? What is available for connecting passengers with short-transfers that don't have time to have dinner on the ground? What about passengers doing a day of business on the ground and then proceeding to the airport with no time for dinner? Let's say a Club World Passenger does a full-day of business in New York, leaves the office around 1700 and proceeds to JFK/Newark without a meal. If there isn't any extra Galleries Lounge dining time before this flight and he/she has just enough time for check-in/security/boarding, what happens then?

I don't know about you, but I cannot sleep if I am hungry. I have been a connecting passenger a few times via JFK and EWR to Europe and was grateful for dinner and breakfast due to short-transfer times and flight delays. I've always kept healthy snacks with me AT ALL TIMES in my carry-on as a common-sense precaution in the event of a catering strike, for example.

+ Once the J ticket is purchased, is/will there be an option to request/reserve a dinner onboard via BA.com for example?

+ What is the seat-width like for a broad-shouldered gent like me? I'm also 6'2" (188cm) in height; is the length of the seat/bed sufficient?

+ Even with the mentioned drawdown of inflight services/amenities, is Club World worthy of the quoted prices for the seat alone (hard-product) versus World Traveller Plus?

I have only used miles for J (and F) seats via reward travel for LAX-Europe so I don't have a true idea of what BA (and transatlantic) J-Class prices are like. My only experiences with using my credit card to pay for J have been for LAX-Asia travel.

I'm asking these questions, especially now, as I have future travel plans to Ljubljana, Berlin, Paris, and London. These trips are not connected with one another so these are going to be purchased on 4-separate reservations via Los Angeles. As a Skyteam Passenger, I have been slowly opening to the idea of trying a OneWorld or Star Alliance carrier. I'd like to try Adria Airways, or maybe Austrian. BA is an option and also the new AF J-product seems attractive. Direct-aisle is always the best, but my last trip in J to Tahiti with AF in the 2-3-2 configuration was quite enjoyable so I'm not totally-opposed to the idea.

Side note: I HATE the J seat DL offers on the 767 as I once flew this seat Narita - San Francisco which gave me severe lower-back pain for two days post-flight. The foot rest and seat space made me feel claustrophobic. I was flying DL J on the 747-400 BKK-NRT and then connecting to the DL J seat 767 NRT-SFO on the same day. What a contrast!!! The thought of that day still stings. Rant over. Lol!

Thanks all for any advice!

Last time when I flew SIN-SYD on BA C it was absolutely miserable. Barely edible food, low crew morale, horribly narrow seat with ZERO storage (the tiny drawer was useless to store anything more than a pair of glasses and it's hard to reach).

A sharp contrast to their aussie colleague (QF) which I flew right after BA's flight. Thankfully we still have QF!

Seriously, BA is just showing its LCC symbol everywhere (well maybe except its lounge at SIN which I found still okay). They seriously need a brand overhaul to get back to what their slogan says - or they might well just serve ants.

smi0006 wrote:

GripenFan wrote:

Bongodog1964 wrote:

People who are posting on here about the despicable low standard of Club World, miss one vital factor that, BA sells more business class seats as a proportion than almost if not any other airline. Whilst this is the case expect improvements to be fairly minor.

Well said. People on Airliners and some (most?) travel blogs continually trash Club World, but it doesn't seem like the customers who actually buy tickets seem to care, so why should BA? If they can continue to pack 'em in (figuratively, at least), why change?

Is BA profitable? If they are totally agree, customer are paying in a sustainable manner so they have found a balance between product and cost. If they are not profitable this is a different story, and time for a change in tact.

Yes they are, I believe more so than ever before which I part of the reason of all this disgruntlement with all these changes.

readytotaxi wrote:

So the article confirms that BA will be moving to direct aisle access on Club world and reduce First to 8 seats, just not anytime soon.

IIRC aisle access is only on the new A350-1000 fleet with no retrofits on A380/747/787 or 777.

....but still the same old seat.

I have switched much of my J transatlantic flying to AA. Their 773s are a million miles ahead of BA and with the 772s retrofitted now, they too are a better option. Even the A330 I flew to PHL was vastly better. Only one problem, due to the joint venture ultimately BA still gain from my moving to AA

Richard28 wrote:

readytotaxi wrote:

So the article confirms that BA will be moving to direct aisle access on Club world and reduce First to 8 seats, just not anytime soon.

IIRC aisle access is only on the new A350-1000 fleet with no retrofits on A380/747/787 or 777.

....but still the same old seat.

Well it seems not.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... ing-behind

"Announcing the decision “to move away away from our existing Club seats”, BA chief executive Alex Cruz said yesterday: “We’re falling behind our competitors. It’s time to change.‎”

Hi everyone,
My personal experience with Club world over the last ten 10 years is excellent. I find the club world seat great because you have "almost" aisle access, just need to hop over the feet of someone else, not a big deal but todays's standards are indeed direct aisle access for everyone. With the divider screen up, you have total privacy, especially at window seat, which you would not have on many other airlines. Not to mention that this unique layout where you face someone else is great when you travel with a partner. I dont quite understand why there are so many complaints about the club world seat itself. I flew last in april 2017 on 772 and 744 to SEA and the crew was absolutely great, caring for every passenger and I loved the seat and the food was OK. Maybe I've been lucky. The only thing is that indeed storage space is not up to today's standards in bus class. I've been flying on many other business class seats (Singapore, Cathay, AirNZ, etc) and I think the club world seat is still very good.

AirAfreak wrote:

I have never flown British Airways so I cannot offer an opinion, as I cannot have an opinion on something I don't personally know.

However, as I am curious about flying BA Club World, I can understand where some of the perceptions, observations, photos, and travel experiences based on what I read here via fellow a.net members come from.

Here are my questions:

+ If BA can/does sell many J seats in general, do they price less than their competitors overall due to the high-capacity configurations of Club World?

+ The limited personal storage space within the seat area seems to be a common observation/complaint of most. What are the overhead storage bin capabilities like for the high number of J passengers? Is there a higher cabin baggage allowance for Club World passengers?

+ East Coast USA - London no dinner service onboard? With only breakfast, is this morning meal a substantial offering? What is available for connecting passengers with short-transfers that don't have time to have dinner on the ground? What about passengers doing a day of business on the ground and then proceeding to the airport with no time for dinner? Let's say a Club World Passenger does a full-day of business in New York, leaves the office around 1700 and proceeds to JFK/Newark without a meal. If there isn't any extra Galleries Lounge dining time before this flight and he/she has just enough time for check-in/security/boarding, what happens then?

I don't know about you, but I cannot sleep if I am hungry. I have been a connecting passenger a few times via JFK and EWR to Europe and was grateful for dinner and breakfast due to short-transfer times and flight delays. I've always kept healthy snacks with me AT ALL TIMES in my carry-on as a common-sense precaution in the event of a catering strike, for example.

+ Once the J ticket is purchased, is/will there be an option to request/reserve a dinner onboard via BA.com for example?

+ What is the seat-width like for a broad-shouldered gent like me? I'm also 6'2" (188cm) in height; is the length of the seat/bed sufficient?

+ Even with the mentioned drawdown of inflight services/amenities, is Club World worthy of the quoted prices for the seat alone (hard-product) versus World Traveller Plus?

BA prices are in line with the competition

Most moaners don't fly the seat they just join the bandwagon. So some points in its favour: 1. It is a VERY comfortable flat bed 2. No feet or legs underneath the seat in front of you or stuck out in the aisle 3. 55% of Club World seats DO have direct aisle access.

Overhead storage bins on the main deck are HUGE. Upper deck are more limited but window seats have extensive side cupboards.

Sleeper Service already exists for certain routes IN CLUB where in lounge dining room facilities exist and where demand requires. The reason people want flat beds on flights is to sleep - so the idea is to encourage dining on the ground So to maximise sleep. It is NOT about saving money as you can still have a 3 course dinner on board but with somewhat reduced options. Not sure they mean to take away the onboard offer but it would mean investment in bigger lounges (if taken at face value) at some outstations, to accommodate up to 86 seats in a dining room layout.

Seat is wide about the shoulders but a bit snug in seat position around the hips, fine as a bed.

If you have status with Oneworld and can get lounge access then a premium economy seat is not a bad experience at all in the upgraded seat on the Super Hi 747, 788/789/773/380. Much cheaper ticket price too. But if you need the sleep and the ticket price is right its a no brainer to fly Club

It is certainly right that it gets an update/new seat. BUt as I have said before, this seat was the vanguard of the J class flat bed revolution. It deserves some respect for what it has achieved!

325i wrote:

CrawleyBen hit the spot when he mentioned J class service.
Several years ago ex JFK to LHR late departure.
Steward asked me what I would like to drink, Scotch and water please.
He returned with 2 minitues a large container of water.
Have a good flight sir!
That was the last I saw of any crew member until breakfast was served.
It would appear that BA's service has not improved.
Maybe they are going through a period like QF had some years ago.
Will be on BA ex LHR to Barcelona next week ,will review my previous comment as a result
In the meantime folks ,enjoy your next flight.

It's maybe ironic, but on the return trip, I travelled with Mrs D from JFK to LGW on a BA772 and both the plane and crew for the return flight were 100 times better than what we had outbound. We didn't have a window seat which we thought we had booked, but that was our mistake. The crew were all polite, friendly and kept offering pax drinks and snacks throughout the flight.

I'm travelling BA from Gatwick to Nice in September, so I won't expect much on such a short flight, but I won't be in a rush to travel long haul with them again unless things change.

Cheers

Ben

jbpdx wrote:

Looks like Portland was lucky to get Delta to LHR.

I'd still prefer BA. Yes the inflight product is lacking, but it's not significantly worse than DL. And, BA offers lots of connecting options whereas DL offers none. DL's flight to AMS is very expensive because it's often the fastest and most convenient way to get to most European cities. Would love a second option to a strong European hub, such as BA to LHR.

I flew Club Europe from LHR to HEL last year and was thoroughly disappointed. Terminal 3 was an awful experience. Probably the worst business lounge at a hub airport that I've ever seen. Onboard the seat pitch was extremely tight and the 'meal' was terrible - wilted lettuce salad with a tiny chicken skewer. That's on a 3 hour dinner time flight. Easily the worst catering I've had in European Business class.

My first ever longhaul business experience was on BA in 2005, SEA-LHR-SEA. At the time I loved it, but the fact that the same seats are still in use today is appalling. And.... the food certainly hasn't got any better.

The Sunday Times article is spot on.
And if you think BA's in trouble only at the front of the aircraft, look at the back too.
Their economy product, especially in short haul, is below Easyjet both on seat pitch, food to purchase, and how to purchase it - they only accept payment by credit card & air miles! No cash!
As a result, with the summer having busy flights, most people are not getting anything on board (not even a drink) either because the cart hasn't reached them, or they've run out of items to sell. That makes for very stressed cabin crew ("complain and tell management", they say, "as management are not listening to us").

The current strikes about Mixed Fleet crews are only the tip of the iceberg as the patient is becoming very ill. I have flown millions of miles with them since 1984 and never, absolutely never have I seen such low flying crew morale. These days I avoid BA except when flight costs on other airlines are so high, I use some of my hundreds of thousands of accumulated air miles to fly for a peppercorn. I'll continue doing that until I find myself in a position that I feel I am getting my money's worth again.

Current management has to go.

I flew them in business class MIA-LHR last September on a dilapidated 747. The seat was very outdated, the inflight system was marginal and the food was pretty sub-par, memorably, bags of nuts rather than a ramekin and worst of all, for breakfast, indifferent flight attendants walking through the aisles announcing "bacon rolls". I then flew them LHR-MOW in first class and the flight was fantastic. The service was spot on, the food was great and the seat was very comfortable. I suppose it's a mixed bag, but BA definitely needs some help across the Atlantic.

Alex needs to go bye bye. Turing every inch of BA from FC on their A380's to Y on an A319 LCC style is ruining them and turning others to the competition. If you are offering LCC service at full service prices, people will just book with the LCC and take the savings.

Greetings All, back from my extended European tour and as mentioned I did fly BA to BCN.
Well things have not changed
Seat 2c and the legroom was comparable to flying Easyjet.
Cabin service was poorly handled. Suspect food offering but very obliging on the refreshment side!
Flew from Lisbon to Amsterdam on KLM and all I can say is that KLM run rings around BA.
Not only were KLM cheaper in J class but offerered a far superior service .
Recommendation to all European travellers if you fly on any route where these two airlines compete, you know who to travel.
All the above aside, enjoy your next flight. 325i.

jfk777 wrote:

Whatever happens at BA the Club World seats have to go.

HTCone wrote:

Their J class product is one of the worst out there.

oldannyboy wrote:

their J product is the worst out there

Agree with all the above. Their J seat is horrid.

But their base is the world's largest aviation pax city, so they can get away with it.

What I don't understand, is how AA can place its premium pax on that, when they themselves have such a great seat on the 77Ws, 787s, and now the 77Es.

Sorry, but "LCC in the back, Premium in the front" won't work.

BA should retain full service economy in the back, and focus on the upper tier of the economy market (the slice willing to pay a bit more for full service/direct flights/etc). If this requires downsizing, sure. Downsize. Keep the brand's integrity and quality. Low-yield passengers have Emirates, Qatar, Etihad, even CX or SQ.

BA is a premium brand and needs to act that way. If they want to form an LCC subsidiary for tourism routes fine, but BA has more than enough premium traffic and marketspace to split off its non-premium and its premium businesses.

Why should a high yield passenger pay more for BA than the mentioned airlines, especially when they currently offer a superior product in Y?

If the price rise is linear to the needed improvement in product quality, you can probably buy a W ticket at some competitors.