FAQ

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares departures for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

THE SCHEDULES SHOWN HERE CHANGE AFTER YOU POST???
-To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often---Winston Churchill. This is data the carriers filed at the point in time it was captured. It's changed since then. You are just going to have to live with it.

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

WHERE ARE SEATS SHOWN?
They aren't. This only shows departures.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Flights that do not operate every day of the month create fractional service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. For example, if a flight operates 4 times in April it will show 4/30=0.133=0.1. Also , a flight that only operates once per week may vary between 0.1 and 0.2 because a weekday may repeat either 4 or 5 times depending on the month.

WHAT ABOUT CARRIERS THAT DON'T PUBLISH A SCHEDULE 9 MONTHS IN ADVANCE?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. I remove the schedule adds if I see them and show a year over year (YOY) comparison if I notice them.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE SKYWEST
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THIS LOOKS LIKE AN ERROR?
The carriers file the schedules. They do make mistakes. Most of the mistakes I have seen are either related to code shares not being marked as "duplicates" or carriers filing flights with invalid data such as equipment codes that are not standard. This causes flights to not appear.

CHARTERS?
Lately charters have been showing up in the database. I have no idea if that will continue.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

4O ORD-MEX MAR 2>1.6

4V MIA-EIS NOV 0>0.1 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.1

Wow, not flying DCA-FLL in Peak season
*AA DCA-FLL JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
It was only a matter of time. Too many airlines.
*AA LAX-CUN NOV 1.0>0.2 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0

AD FLL-VCP DEC 1.3>1.7 JAN 1.3>1.7 FEB 1.2>1.6 MAR 1.0>1.4

*AF ATL-PTP DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.2

AM DEN-MTY DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.1
AM ORD-GDL DEC 1.9>1.6

AN HHR-LAS DEC 0>0.7
AN HHR-OAK DEC 0>0.7
AN HHR-SJC DEC 0>0.7

AS SEA-PDX OCT 24>23

AT JFK-CMN SEP 1.8>1.6 OCT 1.7>1.2 NOV 1.3>1.1 DEC 1.5>1.4 JAN 1.5>1.4 FEB 1.3>1.1

*AV EWR-SAL NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.7 JAN 0>0.7 FEB 0>0.7 MAR 0>0.7

B0 EWR-CDG NOV 1.9>1.5 DEC 1.9>1.6 JAN 1.8>1.6 FEB 1.9>1.5 MAR 1.9>1.7

B6 BOS-SFO FEB 4>5

CM MIA-PTY JAN 5>6 FEB 5>6 MAR 5>6

DL ATL-BZN JAN 0.5>0.4
DL ATL-RIC NOV 8>9
DL CVG-DFW MAR 1.5>3
DL JFK-GIG MAR 0.5>0.1
DL LAX-BZN JAN 0.5>0.4
DL MSP-PIT JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4
DL SLC-ASE JAN 1.5>3 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2

HA HNL-KOA SEP 19>20

5 RTs?
LF BNA-TUP OCT 0.7>5 NOV 0>5 DEC 0>3
LF BWI-MCN AUG 1.7>0.8 OCT 0.4>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>0.8

LO EWR-WAW NOV 0.4>0.6 DEC 0.5>0.7 JAN 0.5>0.6 FEB 0.4>0.6

Schedule Extension I guess
MW HNL-JHM FEB 0>7 MAR 0>7
MW HNL-MKK FEB 0>13 MAR 0>13
MW HNM-OGG FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
MW JHM-KOA FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3
MW KOA-OGG FEB 0>12 MAR 0>12
MW MKK-OGG FEB 0>11 MAR 0>11
MW MUE-OGG FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2

YOY COMPARE
NK ACY-TPA JAN 2>1.0
NK ATL-BWI JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK ATL-FLL MAR 3>4
NK BDL-FLL JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
NK BDL-MCO JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
NK BDL-RSW JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK BDL-TPA JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK BOS-MCO JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK BOS-TPA JAN 0>1.0
NK BWI-CUN JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK BWI-MCO JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK BWI-MSY JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK BWI-MYR FEB 0.3>0.2
NK BWI-RSW JAN 1.1>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK BWI-SAN JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK BWI-SEA JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK BWI-TPA JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK CAK-FLL JAN 1.0>0.4 FEB 1.0>0.4 MAR 1.0>0.4
NK CAK-LAS JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK CLE-MSY JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK DTW-MCO JAN 2>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4
NK DTW-MSP JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK DTW-MYR FEB 0.7>0.5
NK DTW-PHL JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
NK DTW-RSW FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4
NK EWR-FLL JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3 MAR 4>3
NK EWR-IAH JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK EWR-MYR JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0
NK FLL-BQN JAN 0.7>1.0 FEB 0.7>1.0 MAR 0.7>1.0
NK FLL-KIN JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3
NK FLL-MGA JAN 0.8>1.0 FEB 0.9>1.0 MAR 0.8>1.0
NK FLL-MSY JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK FLL-PHL JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK FLL-PTY JAN 0.4>0.8 FEB 0.4>0.9 MAR 0.4>0.8
NK FLL-SJO JAN 1.8>2 FEB 1.9>2 MAR 1.8>2.0
NK FLL-SJU JAN 2>1.7 FEB 1.3>1.0
NK FLL-STI JAN 0.3>0.5 FEB 0.3>0.6 MAR 0.3>0.6
NK IAG-MCO JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
NK IAH-MCO JAN 1.1>2 FEB 1.1>2 MAR 1.2>2
NK IAH-PIT JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK IAH-SAP FEB 0.4>0.6 MAR 0.4>0.6
NK LAS-PIT JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK LAX-PIT JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK LBE-MYR FEB 0.5>0.4
NK LBE-TPA MAR 0.6>0.4
NK MCO-MSP MAR 1.7>1.0
NK MCO-MSY JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK MCO-PBG JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
NK MCO-PHL JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK MCO-PIT JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK MCO-SJU JAN 2>1.7 FEB 1.3>1.0
NK MSP-RSW JAN 2>1.0 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0
NK MYR-ORD FEB 0.7>0
NK MYR-PHL FEB 0.3>0.2
NK ORD-CUN JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK ORD-TPA JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK PIT-RSW JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK PIT-TPA JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0

PD EWR-YTZ NOV 13>11 DEC 13>12

PD MDW-YTZ NOV 7>6 DEC 6>5

QR MIA-DOH AUG 1.0>0.9

They are dropping DCA-MSP??? I wonder if they sold the slot?
*SY DCA-MSP JAN 0.8>0.2 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0

*UA DEN-PUB DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7
*UA EWR-GLA OCT 1.0>0.9 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 0.5>0 FEB 0.6>0 MAR 0.7>0
UA EWR-SJO DEC 3>2
*UA EWR-SNN NOV 0.9>0.8 DEC 0.8>0 JAN 0.6>0 FEB 0.8>0 MAR 0.9>0.7
UA EWR-ZRH NOV 0.8>0.9 DEC 0.8>0.9 JAN 0.8>1.0 FEB 0.9>1.0
UA IAD-GSO SEP 2>0.3
UA IAH-LIR DEC 1.7>1.6
UA IAH-SLP NOV 1.9>2
*UA LAX-SGU OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0

*UP IAH-NAS NOV 0>0.2 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3
*UP ORD-NAS DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3

VC BKW-CLT OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7
VC CLT-PKB OCT 0>1.1 NOV 0>1.2 DEC 0>1.1 JAN 0>1.2 FEB 0>1.1 MAR 0>1.1

VS BOS-LHR NOV 1.0>0.9 FEB 1.0>0.9

WS FLL-YUL NOV 1.3>0.4 DEC 1.2>0.6 JAN 1.1>0.5 FEB 1.1>0.6 MAR 1.2>0.6
WS LAS-YWG DEC 0.6>0.3 JAN 0.5>0.3 FEB 0.6>0.3 MAR 0.6>0.3
WS MCO-YHZ MAR 0.6>0.4
WS MCO-YOW NOV 0.6>0.3 DEC 1.0>0.5 JAN 1.0>0.4 FEB 1.0>0.4 MAR 1.0>0.5
WS MCO-YUL DEC 0.3>0.2 JAN 0.3>0.1 FEB 0.3>0.1 MAR 0.3>0.2
WS MCO-YVR NOV 0.2>0.1 DEC 0.3>0.2 JAN 0.3>0.1 FEB 0.3>0.1 MAR 0.3>0.2
WS MCO-YWG JAN 0.6>0.4
WS RSW-YOW NOV 0.3>0.1 DEC 0.3>0.2 JAN 0.3>0.1 FEB 0.3>0.1 MAR 0.3>0.2
WS TPA-YOW JAN 0.4>0.3 FEB 0.4>0.3 MAR 0.4>0.3

WW ORD-KEF NOV 0.6>0.7 DEC 0.5>0.8 JAN 0.6>0.8 FEB 0.6>0.7

Re Dca Fll...AA has to be on that route if even a token presence...huge hub to a popular Florida city.

SY's MSP-DCA is seasonal. Starts again in April 2018

jfklganyc wrote:

Re Dca Fll...AA has to be on that route if even a token presence...huge hub to a popular Florida city.

So how do you square your opinion with the fact that they dropped it? I checked AA.com, its not an error its gone.

enilria wrote:

It was only a matter of time. Too many airlines.
*AA LAX-CUN NOV 1.0>0.2 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0

That, plus I don't think AA's schedule helped, either - it was lower cost given aircraft utilization, but arguably sub-optimal in a once-daily leisure market.

enilria wrote:

*UA LAX-SGU OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0

To be more specific - is this truly United adding LAX-SGU, or SkyWest?

jfklganyc wrote:

Re Dca Fll...AA has to be on that route if even a token presence...huge hub to a popular Florida city.

AA may feel differently. Perhaps AA has concluded that - similar to NYC - the O&D market to/from FLL specifically is simply no longer sufficiently "worth it" economically given the intense low-fare competition. There are now well over 20 daily flights from WAS metro to FLL, and all but two are on JetBlue, Southwest or Spirit. Given the superior yields and economies of scale, AA seems to be happy concentrating more and more of its capacity in South Florida at the region's busiest airport which, obviously, AA dominates.

enilria wrote:

DL JFK-GIG MAR 0.5>0.1

Wow, for all that this was cracked to be, this became a bit of a short gig - pun intended.

I don't think the Brazilian economy has recovered to support DL in this market beyond January, two weeks in July and two weeks around Carnival.

*UA LAX-SGU OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0

This was previously operated with OO E-120s. Nice to see it back. It hasn't been long since SGU had only one connection (SLC). Now it will be up to 4 with DEN, LAX and PHX. OO headquarters must be happy.

enilria wrote:

UA IAD-GSO SEP 2>0.3

Gotta be a misfile, right?

incitatus wrote:

Wow, for all that this was cracked to be, this became a bit of a short gig - pun intended.

I don't think the Brazilian economy has recovered to support DL in this market beyond January, two weeks in July and two weeks around Carnival.

Ha, yeah.

I agree that this market may not yet be ready to support a second year-round operator. I just went back and read Delta's press release from May, which doesn't seem to specify - was this originally supposed to be year-round, or just seasonal, anyway?

enilria wrote:

AN HHR-LAS DEC 0>0.7
AN HHR-OAK DEC 0>0.7
AN HHR-SJC DEC 0>0.7

Guess this must be a public charter--Advanced Air of Hawthorne, CA (HHR). Nice looking website, I must say: http://advancedaircharters.com/

commavia wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Re Dca Fll...AA has to be on that route if even a token presence...huge hub to a popular Florida city.

AA may feel differently. Perhaps AA has concluded that - similar to NYC - the O&D market to/from FLL specifically is simply no longer sufficiently "worth it" economically given the intense low-fare competition. There are now well over 20 daily flights from WAS metro to FLL, and all but two are on JetBlue, Southwest or Spirit. Given the superior yields and economies of scale, AA seems to be happy concentrating more and more of its capacity in South Florida at the region's busiest airport which, obviously, AA dominates.

True, although this leaves only B6 and WN on DCA-FLL at 5x and 2x, respectively, to connect DC's preferred O&D domestic airport to South Florida's preferred O&D domestic airport.

With AA concentrating more on its MIA fortress hub, could this mark things to come for AA's FLL-PAP operation?

enilria wrote:

FAQ

NK BDL-FLL JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
NK BDL-MCO JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
NK BDL-RSW JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK BDL-TPA JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
NK BOS-MCO JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK BOS-TPA JAN 0>1.0
NK BWI-MCO JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK EWR-FLL JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3 MAR 4>3
NK FLL-BQN JAN 0.7>1.0 FEB 0.7>1.0 MAR 0.7>1.0
NK FLL-KIN JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3
NK FLL-MSY JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK FLL-PHL JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
NK FLL-SJO JAN 1.8>2 FEB 1.9>2 MAR 1.8>2.0
NK FLL-SJU JAN 2>1.7 FEB 1.3>1.0

Thanks as always enilria.

I found the NK YOY view to be interesting when comparing overlap against B6. The additional capacity at BDL is significant, and it will be interesting to see who blinks first (also considering that WN is in most of these markets).

I'm also sure B6 isn't happy about NK encroaching on its BOS-Florida territory.

FLL looks like it is becoming even more of a battlefield, especially when considering that WN is ramping up its international flying. Grab the popcorn!

jetbluefan1 wrote:

True, although this leaves only B6 and WN on DCA-FLL at 5x and 2x, respectively, to connect DC's preferred O&D domestic airport to South Florida's preferred O&D domestic airport.

Seven daily flights between two of FLL's largest carriers seems perfectly sufficient to me.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

With AA concentrating more on its MIA fortress hub, could this mark things to come for AA's FLL-PAP operation?

Fair, although that market has seemed to hang on remarkably well for a long time - AA does have a unique competitive position in that market given its strong presence with South Florida ethnic sales/VFR markets, and its longstanding, competitive position in Haiti.

enilria wrote:

FAQ
*UA DEN-PUB DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7

This is a Skywest at-risk market. They picked up the EAS contract from ZK.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1366139&p=19617509

Peace

Rdh3e wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:
Re Dca Fll...AA has to be on that route if even a token presence...huge hub to a popular Florida city.

So how do you square your opinion with the fact that they dropped it? I checked AA.com, its not an error its gone.

commavia wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

True, although this leaves only B6 and WN on DCA-FLL at 5x and 2x, respectively, to connect DC's preferred O&D domestic airport to South Florida's preferred O&D domestic airport.

Seven daily flights between two of FLL's largest carriers seems perfectly sufficient to me.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

With AA concentrating more on its MIA fortress hub, could this mark things to come for AA's FLL-PAP operation?

Fair, although that market has seemed to hang on remarkably well for a long time - AA does have a unique competitive position in that market given its strong presence with South Florida ethnic sales/VFR markets, and its longstanding, competitive position in Haiti.

It's just exceedingly rare to see the hub airline run out of a market by two non-hub airlines. You could argue B6 maybe has a FLL hub, but WN definitely doesn't and neither have a hub in DCA. Imagine DL giving up on ATL-FLL or AA dropping LAX-LAS!

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Thanks as always enilria.

I found the NK YOY view to be interesting when comparing overlap against B6. The additional capacity at BDL is significant, and it will be interesting to see who blinks first (also considering that WN is in most of these markets).

I'm also sure B6 isn't happy about NK encroaching on its BOS-Florida territory.

FLL looks like it is becoming even more of a battlefield, especially when considering that WN is ramping up its international flying. Grab the popcorn!

Thanks. BDL is becoming a crux of Northeast competition.

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

Guess this must be a public charter--Advanced Air of Hawthorne, CA (HHR). Nice looking website, I must say: http://advancedaircharters.com/

I know nothing about them other than I think I saw their offices. Aren't they next to SpaceX and Tesla?

commavia wrote:

incitatus wrote:
Wow, for all that this was cracked to be, this became a bit of a short gig - pun intended.

I don't think the Brazilian economy has recovered to support DL in this market beyond January, two weeks in July and two weeks around Carnival.


Ha, yeah.

I agree that this market may not yet be ready to support a second year-round operator.

All DL seems sure of in Brazil these days are mouse ears.

redzeppelin wrote:

*UA LAX-SGU OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0

This was previously operated with OO E-120s. Nice to see it back. It hasn't been long since SGU had only one connection (SLC). Now it will be up to 4 with DEN, LAX and PHX. OO headquarters must be happy.

commavia wrote:

o be more specific - is this truly United adding LAX-SGU, or SkyWest?

1X CRJ-200

enilria wrote:

It's just exceedingly rare to see the hub airline run out of a market by two non-hub airlines. You could argue B6 maybe has a FLL hub, but WN definitely doesn't and neither have a hub in DCA. Imagine DL giving up on ATL-FLL or AA dropping LAX-LAS!

There is also the UA IAD service which is probably undermining them in terms of the market for people actually willing to pay legacy fares, and perhaps some limited corporate side impact.

The dynamic is nothing like ATL as DCA is nowhere near the same level of hub or connecting traffic. LAX has lots of legacy competition so more markets are must-have, unlike DCA.

Most similar would probably be something in PHX and I could absolutely see WN running AA out of markets there.

DCA also has inherently high opportunity cost di.e. To it's position as the preferred O&D airport so if they are moving that slot to a less competitive O&D then I could absolutely see how the math stacks up.

enilria wrote:

It's just exceedingly rare to see the hub airline run out of a market by two non-hub airlines. You could argue B6 maybe has a FLL hub, but WN definitely doesn't and neither have a hub in DCA.

Not really much to argue - JetBlue certainly does have a connecting hub at FLL. (And Southwest, for that matter, increasingly does, too.) And both are now, needless to say, fairly significant competitors at DCA, too.

enilria wrote:

Imagine DL giving up on ATL-FLL or AA dropping LAX-LAS!

That's an incomplete comparison, though, since AA has a large hub right down the road from FLL. That, as much as anything else, is clearly what has driven AA to make the decision to exit the NYC-FLL, and apparently now also WAS-FLL, market/s. AA can still cater to the segment of NYC-South Florida and WAS-South Florida market it wants by concentrating on the megahub it utterly dominates that's less than 30 miles away. As said - as the competition, and thus yield environment, becomes progressively less favorable at low-fare-dominated FLL, AA probably no longer feels it's worth it to dedicate an aircraft, let alone a DCA slot, to such a market.

A more apt comparison seems to be LAX-OAK - a large O&D market dominated by low-fare competition, where United has a hub just across the bay from OAK and has, indeed, exited the LAX-OAK route.

enilria wrote:

Rdh3e wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:
Re Dca Fll...AA has to be on that route if even a token presence...huge hub to a popular Florida city.

So how do you square your opinion with the fact that they dropped it? I checked AA.com, its not an error its gone.

commavia wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

True, although this leaves only B6 and WN on DCA-FLL at 5x and 2x, respectively, to connect DC's preferred O&D domestic airport to South Florida's preferred O&D domestic airport.

Seven daily flights between two of FLL's largest carriers seems perfectly sufficient to me.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

With AA concentrating more on its MIA fortress hub, could this mark things to come for AA's FLL-PAP operation?

Fair, although that market has seemed to hang on remarkably well for a long time - AA does have a unique competitive position in that market given its strong presence with South Florida ethnic sales/VFR markets, and its longstanding, competitive position in Haiti.

It's just exceedingly rare to see the hub airline run out of a market by two non-hub airlines. You could argue B6 maybe has a FLL hub, but WN definitely doesn't and neither have a hub in DCA. Imagine DL giving up on ATL-FLL or AA dropping LAX-LAS!

But the Washington Region and South Florida is somewhat unique, in that both regions have multiple airports on relatively equal footing that can serve traffic.

IIRC, there's only a single Saturday-only DL flight between DCA and MIA. All other flights between IAD, DCA, BWI, and MIA are AA. They dominate everything to D.C. ex-MIA. And if they think that serves their south Florida O/D needs, that makes sense. If MIA wasn't there, it would be more remarkable, but since MIA can substitute for FLL, it makes sense.

It's been a slow but steady retreat from FLL by AA. In 2008 or 2009 flying to SJO, NAS, KIN etc were dropped. After the merger PHX was first dropped to a single daily then dropped outright. DCA , PHL and ORD flying have been reduced and now DCA cut. UA now offers more frequencies on FLL-ORD than AA which hasn't been the case I want to say since the 1990's or ever since AA started ORD-Florida flying in the late 1980's (At the time DL was still on the MIA/FLL/PBI-ORD routes).

AA is content to let its FF base use MIA rather than deal with the intense competition and race to the bottom yield wise at FLL. I am not sure it is a sound strategy given the huge loyalty and FF base AA has in the northern suburbs and areas near FLL but seems they've determined it is. FLL-PAP continues an oddball route in the AA network because the O&D particularly on the PAP end makes it worthwhile.

enilria wrote:

YOY COMPARE
NK ACY-TPA JAN 2>1.0
NK DTW-PHL JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
NK MCO-PHL JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2

I wonder if NK's DTW-PHL returns as a seasonal? I'd bet AA's basic economy faring ex PHL isn't helping NK. Even to Dallas, which is a big NK city, I recently saw for August that AA has $149 one-way Basic Economy fares, while NK is priced at $128 one-way. If I have an AA credit card, I get a checked bag, so AA is ahead, but if I buy at an airport, I save $19 off the NK fare, but have to pay atleast $21 for a checked bag on NK, assuming a $9 Fare club membership. Then, I check the timings, and NK's flight is 1x in the middle of the day, while AA has a night flight with basic economy offered. In the end, I think for many customers, the savings and hassle to go with NK is minimized in these conditions, when AA is pretty competitive. However, AA fares can be often much higher.

NK also is shrinking ACY so doesn't seem promising that it would add routes or grow back there (e.g. restore ACY-DTW seasonal).

NK increases MCO-PHL to 2x daily, and F9 has 3x daily, let alone their ACY and TTN flights for South and Central NJ to MCO. WN is down to just 2x daily on PHL-MCO in January to early March. It appears that F9 (likely moreso) and NK (now increasing) have really depressed WN on this route, which could have been atleast WN + FL capacity, but now a lot less. I lump NK and F9 together, because they are pretty much identical in what they offer to customers, with the exception that F9 offers 50lbs of checked bag vs. 40lbs on Spirit.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

It's been a slow but steady retreat from FLL by AA. In 2008 or 2009 flying to SJO, NAS, KIN etc were dropped. After the merger PHX was first dropped to a single daily then dropped outright. DCA , PHL and ORD flying have been reduced and now DCA cut. UA now offers more frequencies on FLL-ORD than AA which hasn't been the case I want to say since the 1990's or ever since AA started ORD-Florida flying in the late 1980's (At the time DL was still on the MIA/FLL/PBI-ORD routes).

Yep. As the competitive position has grown more intense at FLL, AA has steadily focused more and more on MIA, where it dominates.

The context here is important, though - AA's steady concentration on MIA has actually happened at he same time as virtually every other U.S. airline has steadily shifted focus in South Florida to FLL. Southwest, Spirit and JetBlue, obviously, have never flown to MIA. But even with AA's network competitors - the emphasis is more and more on FLL for new domestic service. And in a unique and intriguing way, it kind of makes sense. FLL competition is obviously very intense from the three low fare carriers that collectively account for the majority of the airport's volume. But this actually leaves an opening, at the high end, for higher-cost Delta and United to compete there. Contrast that with MIA, where the low fare airlines struggle against AA's network breadth and economies of scale, and Delta/United seem to struggle against both of those plus AA's lock on local corporate/business O&D - and this seems to set up the "sorting out" we've witnessed in South Florida in the last decade. FLL has a bifurcated market with obviously significant capacity from three low fare airlines, plus strong showings from both Delta and United (lots of nonstop flights, both have lounges, etc.) - where down at MIA, AA can leverage hub scale to effectively and opportunistically straddle both the lower- and higher-end of the market and dominate the airport.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

AA is content to let its FF base use MIA rather than deal with the intense competition and race to the bottom yield wise at FLL.

Indeed. That appears to be the bottom line from AA's perspective.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

AA is content to let its FF base use MIA rather than deal with the intense competition and race to the bottom yield wise at FLL. I am not sure it is a sound strategy given the huge loyalty and FF base AA has in the northern suburbs and areas near FLL but seems they've determined it is.e.

Most likely on a route like DCA-FLL/MIA, during the Winter especially, it's going to be majority DC region point of sale. With uber and lyft becoming more and more prevalent in usage, it's not that expensive landing in MIA and then get a ride to somewhere even where FLL would have been closer. Atleast when I check the uberestimate tool, it seems most areas are under $40.

UP starting flights to Houston and Chicago?

sunking737 wrote:

SY's MSP-DCA is seasonal. Starts again in April 2018

How does that work when dealing with landing/takeoff slots? Do you still pay for them when they're not being used?

Not sure why it's not captured above, but DL has also loaded Saturday-only BOS-CHS/SAV/MIA.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... on-in-w17/

enilria wrote:

FAQ

NK BWI-SEA JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0

Looks like BWI-SEA is going year-round. The route must be doing pretty well, given that it's excluded from fare sales.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

I am not sure it is a sound strategy given the huge loyalty and FF base AA has in the northern suburbs and areas near FLL

I don't believe American has a choice. With todays SFL LCC competition MIA most likely is no longer the cash cow it used to be. Lyft & Uber work both ways. As a result its operation has been 'banked' and many markets down gauged with increased frequency to maximize connections both ways. 'Basic Economy' fares should help, but AA is a high cost airline and geography will always limit the size of the hub.

DCA-FLL must have been losing quite a bit of money for them to exit despite having a strong FF base at both ends. That doesn't bode well for the other FLL markets.

sunking737 wrote:

SY's MSP-DCA is seasonal. Starts again in April 2018

How does SY keep the slots as they will be operating the route less than 80% of the time?

commavia wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

True, although this leaves only B6 and WN on DCA-FLL at 5x and 2x, respectively, to connect DC's preferred O&D domestic airport to South Florida's preferred O&D domestic airport.

Seven daily flights between two of FLL's largest carriers seems perfectly sufficient to me.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

With AA concentrating more on its MIA fortress hub, could this mark things to come for AA's FLL-PAP operation?

Fair, although that market has seemed to hang on remarkably well for a long time - AA does have a unique competitive position in that market given its strong presence with South Florida ethnic sales/VFR markets, and its longstanding, competitive position in Haiti.

Regarding FLL to PAP American Airlines might hold onto it for a while longer or even a good wile longer. Their competitors have been chipping away and it will be only a matter of time. If it's not a hub rout they don't fight very much that is been a staple of doug Parker the last 20 years or so that I've followed him.


Let me add- why not concentrate on MIA SUPER hub. Years ago are used to flying to Fort Lauderdale on American Airlines from LAX. I did it because I could buy first class fares 20 years ago a lot cheaper in the Fort Lauderdale versus Miami. Sine AA flight FLL has been long gone and I've been using Miami as my destination I find it no much not harder to get around. it was just a nice little convenience because it was cheaper and sometimes a tad bit closer.

incitatus wrote:

enilria wrote:

DL JFK-GIG MAR 0.5>0.1

Wow, for all that this was cracked to be, this became a bit of a short gig - pun intended.

I don't think the Brazilian economy has recovered to support DL in this market beyond January, two weeks in July and two weeks around Carnival.

and not to mention, AA being longstanding on the route year round with a 777.

commavia wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

True, although this leaves only B6 and WN on DCA-FLL at 5x and 2x, respectively, to connect DC's preferred O&D domestic airport to South Florida's preferred O&D domestic airport.

Seven daily flights between two of FLL's largest carriers seems perfectly sufficient to me.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

With AA concentrating more on its MIA fortress hub, could this mark things to come for AA's FLL-PAP operation?

Fair, although that market has seemed to hang on remarkably well for a long time - AA does have a unique competitive position in that market given its strong presence with South Florida ethnic sales/VFR markets, and its longstanding, competitive position in Haiti.

I doubt FLL-PAP is going anywhere. both ends of the route go out very full. that's an extremely unique route, and much like RDU-LHR, there's no reason for it to go anywhere

curiously AA will continue DCA-PBI, where they only compete with B6

enilria wrote:

FAQ
DL SLC-ASE JAN 1.5>3 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2

Seems like a really good move. I hope we see SLC-EGE in the winter eventually too.

jfklganyc wrote:

Re Dca Fll...AA has to be on that route if even a token presence...huge hub to a popular Florida city.

I was beaten down here a few weeks ago for suggesting that FLL and MIA do not serve the same markets (yes there is overlap but they are not like LGA/JFK).

So... if I apply that logic, it doesn't matter that AA is dropping DCA-FLL because they will still serve DCA-MIA.

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

enilria wrote:

UA IAD-GSO SEP 2>0.3

Gotta be a misfile, right?

Yes, it appears that way. Still available now with Air Wisconsin as the carrier. Same thing happened a few weeks ago with several routes out of IAD as they were changed to Air Wisconsin. Not sure why it is not captured in this for another week since it is already available.

N62NA wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Re Dca Fll...AA has to be on that route if even a token presence...huge hub to a popular Florida city.

I was beaten down here a few weeks ago for suggesting that FLL and MIA do not serve the same markets (yes there is overlap but they are not like LGA/JFK).

So... if I apply that logic, it doesn't matter that AA is dropping DCA-FLL because they will still serve DCA-MIA.

Accurate, since they serve the same exact market, AA remains in it.

uberflieger wrote:

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

I am not sure it is a sound strategy given the huge loyalty and FF base AA has in the northern suburbs and areas near FLL

I don't believe American has a choice. With todays SFL LCC competition MIA most likely is no longer the cash cow it used to be. Lyft & Uber work both ways. As a result its operation has been 'banked' and many markets down gauged with increased frequency to maximize connections both ways. 'Basic Economy' fares should help, but AA is a high cost airline and geography will always limit the size of the hub.

DCA-FLL must have been losing quite a bit of money for them to exit despite having a strong FF base at both ends. That doesn't bode well for the other FLL markets.

The flight doesn't even need to lose money if more money can be made utilizing the DCA slot elsewhere. DCA isn't optimized for connections the way CLT and PHL are so any connecting traffic ex-FLL is easily absorbed at those stations.

I know STL is 2 hours due west of DCA, but when checking for flights to the NE or Mid-Atlantic I'm rarely offered connections via DCA. And if I am, there is usually a small premium to connect there. Still, I would rather connect at DCA than PHL if the option is there.

enilria wrote:

DL JFK-GIG MAR 0.5>0.1

Well, Delta might regret this... AD is increasing service to the US and O6 is preparing to launch GRU-NYC...

Rdh3e wrote:

enilria wrote:

It's just exceedingly rare to see the hub airline run out of a market by two non-hub airlines. You could argue B6 maybe has a FLL hub, but WN definitely doesn't and neither have a hub in DCA. Imagine DL giving up on ATL-FLL or AA dropping LAX-LAS!

There is also the UA IAD service which is probably undermining them in terms of the market for people actually willing to pay legacy fares, and perhaps some limited corporate side impact.

The dynamic is nothing like ATL as DCA is nowhere near the same level of hub or connecting traffic. LAX has lots of legacy competition so more markets are must-have, unlike DCA.

Most similar would probably be something in PHX and I could absolutely see WN running AA out of markets there.

DCA also has inherently high opportunity cost di.e. To it's position as the preferred O&D airport so if they are moving that slot to a less competitive O&D then I could absolutely see how the math stacks up.

Sure, there are differences, but DCA is definitely a hub for AA. UA has been in and out of IAD-FLL.

commavia wrote:

A more apt comparison seems to be LAX-OAK - a large O&D market dominated by low-fare competition, where United has a hub just across the bay from OAK and has, indeed, exited the LAX-OAK route.

I disagree because OAK is not a Tier 1 leisure market.

phluser wrote:

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
AA is content to let its FF base use MIA rather than deal with the intense competition and race to the bottom yield wise at FLL. I am not sure it is a sound strategy given the huge loyalty and FF base AA has in the northern suburbs and areas near FLL but seems they've determined it is.e.


Most likely on a route like DCA-FLL/MIA, during the Winter especially, it's going to be majority DC region point of sale. With uber and lyft becoming more and more prevalent in usage, it's not that expensive landing in MIA and then get a ride to somewhere even where FLL would have been closer. Atleast when I check the uberestimate tool, it seems most areas are under $40.

I think at the end of the dat we are seeing that AA is struggling at MIA with the LCC competition down the road. I'm not sure retreat will be a solution.

drerx7 wrote:

UP starting flights to Houston and Chicago?

I forgot to highlight/remark on that but if they stick that's a big deal.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Not sure why it's not captured above, but DL has also loaded Saturday-only BOS-CHS/SAV/MIA.

I believe 1/week domestic is usually filtered.

DCAfan wrote:

sunking737 wrote:
SY's MSP-DCA is seasonal. Starts again in April 2018


How does SY keep the slots as they will be operating the route less than 80% of the time?

I don't remember them stopping this before. Good question.

enilria wrote:

I disagree because OAK is not a Tier 1 leisure market.

Meh. The Bay Area is a major tourist (not to mention business) destination, just like South Florida, and both metro areas are served by multiple airports - including one dominated by a network carrier, and one dominated by low fare carriers.

commavia wrote:

incitatus wrote:

Wow, for all that this was cracked to be, this became a bit of a short gig - pun intended.

I don't think the Brazilian economy has recovered to support DL in this market beyond January, two weeks in July and two weeks around Carnival.

Ha, yeah.

I agree that this market may not yet be ready to support a second year-round operator. I just went back and read Delta's press release from May, which doesn't seem to specify - was this originally supposed to be year-round, or just seasonal, anyway?

The PR is vague, but nowhere on it does it say this was going to a seasonal service.

wenders825 wrote:

and not to mention, AA being longstanding on the route year round with a 777.

And given the state of the market, it appears AA's daily 777 service suffices except for peak times.

FWIW in the US days right after the HP merger, I connected multiple times at DCA flying from FLL to BDA, BOS or PVD. I was routed via DCA one way and PHL or CLT the other. This was when my then company would always book US because it was the "safest cheap" (ie. not NK) . Eventually they let me fly AA from MIA or B6 from FLL so I got nonstops to places in New England.

I'd think AA would love to be out of FLL completely given all the LCC competition, somewhat but not entirely like UA bailing on JFK. In the case of FLL I doubt any corporate contracts are at stake though

Rdh3e wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Re Dca Fll...AA has to be on that route if even a token presence...huge hub to a popular Florida city.

So how do you square your opinion with the fact that they dropped it? I checked AA.com, its not an error its gone.

What do we think DCA -PBI will stay or go?

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

It's been a slow but steady retreat from FLL by AA. In 2008 or 2009 flying to SJO, NAS, KIN etc were dropped. After the merger PHX was first dropped to a single daily then dropped outright. DCA , PHL and ORD flying have been reduced and now DCA cut. UA now offers more frequencies on FLL-ORD than AA which hasn't been the case I want to say since the 1990's or ever since AA started ORD-Florida flying in the late 1980's (At the time DL was still on the MIA/FLL/PBI-ORD routes).

AA is content to let its FF base use MIA rather than deal with the intense competition and race to the bottom yield wise at FLL. I am not sure it is a sound strategy given the huge loyalty and FF base AA has in the northern suburbs and areas near FLL but seems they've determined it is. FLL-PAP continues an oddball route in the AA network because the O&D particularly on the PAP end makes it worthwhile.

They also used to have FLL LAX on 757.
FLL -ORD is down to 1 daily in September and October

Jo8338 wrote:

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

It's been a slow but steady retreat from FLL by AA. In 2008 or 2009 flying to SJO, NAS, KIN etc were dropped. After the merger PHX was first dropped to a single daily then dropped outright. DCA , PHL and ORD flying have been reduced and now DCA cut. UA now offers more frequencies on FLL-ORD than AA which hasn't been the case I want to say since the 1990's or ever since AA started ORD-Florida flying in the late 1980's (At the time DL was still on the MIA/FLL/PBI-ORD routes).

AA is content to let its FF base use MIA rather than deal with the intense competition and race to the bottom yield wise at FLL. I am not sure it is a sound strategy given the huge loyalty and FF base AA has in the northern suburbs and areas near FLL but seems they've determined it is. FLL-PAP continues an oddball route in the AA network because the O&D particularly on the PAP end makes it worthwhile.

They also used to have FLL LAX on 757.
FLL -ORD is down to 1 daily in September and October

At one time they had three or four daily FLL-LAX. Around 2003 or 2004.

DaufuskieGuy wrote:

I'd think AA would love to be out of FLL completely given all the LCC competition, somewhat but not entirely like UA bailing on JFK. In the case of FLL I doubt any corporate contracts are at stake though

I could see that.... maybe with a small buildup of PBI. I could see PBI grow to the size of TPA and a pullout of FLL.

Jo8338 wrote:

DaufuskieGuy wrote:

I'd think AA would love to be out of FLL completely given all the LCC competition, somewhat but not entirely like UA bailing on JFK. In the case of FLL I doubt any corporate contracts are at stake though

I could see that.... maybe with a small buildup of PBI. I could see PBI grow to the size of TPA and a pullout of FLL.

AA won't pull out of FLL. DCA is an exception since it's slot limited and there is an opportunity cost for every slot pair, but slots don't apply for it's four largest hubs, DFW, CLT, ORD and PHL. it won't be giving up the market share of those FLL routes to competition and on atleast on three of the hubs, DFW, CLT and PHL, it should have the dominating market share as well.

DaufuskieGuy wrote:

I'd think AA would love to be out of FLL completely given all the LCC competition, somewhat but not entirely like UA bailing on JFK. In the case of FLL I doubt any corporate contracts are at stake though

In the jungle when you run, you tend to get chased!

Jo8338 wrote:

What do we think DCA -PBI will stay or go?

Stay but highly seasonal until it becomes LCC dominated.

phluser wrote:

Jo8338 wrote:

DaufuskieGuy wrote:

I'd think AA would love to be out of FLL completely given all the LCC competition, somewhat but not entirely like UA bailing on JFK. In the case of FLL I doubt any corporate contracts are at stake though

I could see that.... maybe with a small buildup of PBI. I could see PBI grow to the size of TPA and a pullout of FLL.

AA won't pull out of FLL. DCA is an exception since it's slot limited and there is an opportunity cost for every slot pair, but slots don't apply for it's four largest hubs, DFW, CLT, ORD and PHL. it won't be giving up the market share of those FLL routes to competition and on atleast on three of the hubs, DFW, CLT and PHL, it should have the dominating market share as well.

Good points, but by not defending FLL they will do nothing to stop it getting bigger and bigger, draining off more and more from MIA.

phluser wrote:

AA won't pull out of FLL. DCA is an exception since it's slot limited and there is an opportunity cost for every slot pair, but slots don't apply for it's four largest hubs, DFW, CLT, ORD and PHL. it won't be giving up the market share of those FLL routes to competition and on atleast on three of the hubs, DFW, CLT and PHL, it should have the dominating market share as well.

Precisely. There is definitely some subset of the market in South Florida that is FLL-captive and for which AA is a relevant competitor. But the opportunity cost of wasting time and money fighting lower-cost and lower-fare operators is, in most cases, clearly no longer worth it. I'll reiterate my personal theory which is that Delta and United are more willing to fight it out with JetBlue, Southwest and Spirit at FLL because both of them would rather be fighting there for the upper end of the FLL market than going up against AA which utterly dominates the MIA market.

enilria wrote:

Good points, but by not defending FLL they will do nothing to stop it getting bigger and bigger, draining off more and more from MIA.

Meh - I'm unconvinced of just how big a threat that really is. The growth of three well-capitalized, well-run low-cost/low-fare carriers at FLL has persisted, pretty much unabated, for more than a decade. It doesn't seem to have slowed down AA in MIA all that much. Up until the Brazilian economy tanked, AA's MIA hub had been on pretty much the same unabated growth trajectory as FLL - with the big difference being that, again, that growth occurred with virtually zero competition. Personally, I'm not sure that AA isn't quite happy about the fact that the center of gravity has firmly shifted up to FLL for just about all net-new domestic capacity growth in South Florida - because that just further reinforces AA's dominance at MIA. And further, if I'm AA, the one "straggler" who I'd most want to go up against at MIA is the one they're getting - Frontier.

OzarkD9S wrote:

uberflieger wrote:

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

I am not sure it is a sound strategy given the huge loyalty and FF base AA has in the northern suburbs and areas near FLL

I don't believe American has a choice. With todays SFL LCC competition MIA most likely is no longer the cash cow it used to be. Lyft & Uber work both ways. As a result its operation has been 'banked' and many markets down gauged with increased frequency to maximize connections both ways. 'Basic Economy' fares should help, but AA is a high cost airline and geography will always limit the size of the hub.

DCA-FLL must have been losing quite a bit of money for them to exit despite having a strong FF base at both ends. That doesn't bode well for the other FLL markets.

The flight doesn't even need to lose money if more money can be made utilizing the DCA slot elsewhere. DCA isn't optimized for connections the way CLT and PHL are so any connecting traffic ex-FLL is easily absorbed at those stations.

I know STL is 2 hours due west of DCA, but when checking for flights to the NE or Mid-Atlantic I'm rarely offered connections via DCA. And if I am, there is usually a small premium to connect there. Still, I would rather connect at DCA than PHL if the option is there.

It has always seemed to me that the pricing of DCA as a relevant connecting point depends on the dynamics of the market involved. For some of the cities where AA competes with frequency and loads are not as good, AA does push connections through DCA. I did BNA-PIT almost weekly in the fall, and DCA was frequently one of the cheapest (and easiest) connecting points.

commavia wrote:

enilria wrote:

I disagree because OAK is not a Tier 1 leisure market.

Meh. The Bay Area is a major tourist (not to mention business) destination, just like South Florida, and both metro areas are served by multiple airports - including one dominated by a network carrier, and one dominated by low fare carriers.

I think they are not exactly analogous in this context. The geography of the bay area means that the airports are less substitutable than are FLL and MIA. If I'm going to Berkeley, I fly to OAK and do not shop the other two airports. If I'm going to Mountain View, I fly to SJC and do not shop the other two airports. Shorter stage lengths magnify this effect. I do not see that dynamic for many parts of SFL.

Jo8338 wrote:

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

It's been a slow but steady retreat from FLL by AA. In 2008 or 2009 flying to SJO, NAS, KIN etc were dropped. After the merger PHX was first dropped to a single daily then dropped outright. DCA , PHL and ORD flying have been reduced and now DCA cut. UA now offers more frequencies on FLL-ORD than AA which hasn't been the case I want to say since the 1990's or ever since AA started ORD-Florida flying in the late 1980's (At the time DL was still on the MIA/FLL/PBI-ORD routes).

AA is content to let its FF base use MIA rather than deal with the intense competition and race to the bottom yield wise at FLL. I am not sure it is a sound strategy given the huge loyalty and FF base AA has in the northern suburbs and areas near FLL but seems they've determined it is. FLL-PAP continues an oddball route in the AA network because the O&D particularly on the PAP end makes it worthwhile.

They also used to have FLL LAX on 757.
FLL -ORD is down to 1 daily in September and October

They also flew FLL-SJU. I did a FLL-SJU-FLL trip in March 2006, both on 752s. The outbound originated at LAX (LAX-FLL-SJU)

JFKCMILAXFLL wrote:

Jo8338 wrote:

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

It's been a slow but steady retreat from FLL by AA. In 2008 or 2009 flying to SJO, NAS, KIN etc were dropped. After the merger PHX was first dropped to a single daily then dropped outright. DCA , PHL and ORD flying have been reduced and now DCA cut. UA now offers more frequencies on FLL-ORD than AA which hasn't been the case I want to say since the 1990's or ever since AA started ORD-Florida flying in the late 1980's (At the time DL was still on the MIA/FLL/PBI-ORD routes).

AA is content to let its FF base use MIA rather than deal with the intense competition and race to the bottom yield wise at FLL. I am not sure it is a sound strategy given the huge loyalty and FF base AA has in the northern suburbs and areas near FLL but seems they've determined it is. FLL-PAP continues an oddball route in the AA network because the O&D particularly on the PAP end makes it worthwhile.

They also used to have FLL LAX on 757.
FLL -ORD is down to 1 daily in September and October

They also flew FLL-SJU. I did a FLL-SJU-FLL trip in March 2006, both on 752s. The outbound originated at LAX (LAX-FLL-SJU)

Also flew FLL-SDQ for a while. That was intrestingly one of the first markets NK invaded and drove AA out although US also flew it after AA - was pulled down by Parker after the HP merger.