Fantastic to see Thomas Cool bedding down nicely with Long Haul at Manchester. Hopefully there is room for both VS and TCX.

Cunard wrote:

Any updates on the proposed link with Kuwait on Kuwait Airways that was mentioned a few months ago?

Haven't heard anything for a while.

To be fair, these things invariably take longer than expected. Last I heard they were thinking about using it as a transit to Chicago or Washington so this may have held things up.

BestWestern wrote:

Fantastic to see Thomas Cool bedding down nicely with Long Haul at Manchester. Hopefully there is room for both VS and TCX.

I do love me some Thomas Cool!!

TCX are clearly targeting VS at SFO and BOS. It will be interesting to see if there is space for both of these on relatively thin routes like SFO.

I don't see VS expanding in the near term, but wonder if they could collect some LAS traffic ex AMS and CDG?

Thomas Cook have done a cracking job at opening the niche routes they have.

The issue MAN has at the moment is, that it appears to have reached critical mass for the time being. As MAN is predominantly outbound, there is only a finite market to be drawn from for that outbound market, and as one route gets added, we seem to loose another. For example, San Fran was announced, and we lost Washington. Seattle was announced and we lost Miami (and now AA to JFK).

What MAN now really needs to do to get further growth in long haul is now capitalise on inbound passengers.

It has a huge tourist draw on its doorstep. The Lake District, North Wales, Yorkshire, the Peak District, Livepool, Manchester, Chester and so on. It also has frequent flights/trains to Scotland for the highlands, and can be used as an alternative gateway for UK tours in general.

It has leisure. Football, music, other sporting events, large LGBT area/events. It has Cheshire Oaks nearby (the Chinese love Bister Village and Cheshire oaks is very similar). Trafford centre and Liverpool one etc.

It has lots of universities in the vicinity, it's not uncommon to see the rail station taken over by universities and filled with students heading onwards.

There is also a lot of business in locality. Petra-chemical such as Ineos in Runcorn, the BBC, growing tech sector, manufacturing (such as aerospace) and other small-medium business.

So, there is a lot going for the inbound market, it's clearly time to harness it. You could probably gain another 3-5 million pax per year by harnessing this market to its full affect.

It has a

Attractive inbound tourism is the primary role of visit Britain, rather than the airline. They need to push the north as a tourist destination over London. It's got a super product (sport, food, castles, shopping, mountains, lakes, university, etc) that it should be an easy sell. In Hong Kong I've never once seen a visit Manchester campaign, with the exception of what Cathay Pacific have done themselves.

Thomas cook seems solid in their long haul route development and focus in comparison to Norwegian ex UK and Ireland.

I agree it's a 'visit Britian' responsibility to advertise the North, however, MAN (and the airlines) need to advertise the virtue of using MAN to access that 'Northern tourism', rather than the world thinking UK access starts and ends in London.

Also agree MT has seen more focused than Norwegian. MT know what they want to do and see it through, Norwegian just chases the money (incentives).

User001 wrote:

I agree it's a 'visit Britian' responsibility to advertise the North, however, MAN (and the airlines) need to advertise the virtue of using MAN to access that 'Northern tourism', rather than the world thinking UK access starts and ends in London.

Also agree MT has seen more focused than Norwegian. MT know what they want to do and see it through, Norwegian just chases the money (incentives).

I agree.

Any hyperthetical marketing campaign would benefit from highlighting MAN's distance from major attractions and locations. E.g. The time from Piccadilly to Oxenholme on a Pendolino.

As mentioned above, I have seen numerous campaigns advertising MAN regionally for outbound travel (recent USA billboards spring to mind), but investing in some thought out current destinations could pay dividends.

User001 wrote:

2018 looks to be a bit damp long haul wise.
We only have Seattle as a new route, Santa Clara new for TCX and that's it so far (this year saw several new long hauls including BOS/SFO on VS and SFO/CPT on MT.

So, it's a shame to see the growth 'slowed down' but maybe it's MAN giving themselves some breathing room while the TP goes on?

Just curious here as to what you guys in MAN, much closer to the situation, are thinking about any further US destinations being named for summer 2018 service? There were lots of vibes floating around a month ago about the US cities that were probably in contention to see MT aircraft calling regularly next year. (And to make things more complicated, I don't believe SEA was even mentioned prior to them getting the nod for service!) Have the priorities completely changed, or has the fleet changed significantly so as to eliminate any further new service next year?

Is August the usual month when these sorts of announcements can be expected, or are September and October also possible?

Thanks in advance for your latest thoughts.

with fingers crossed for guess-which-city,
bb

The problem MAN faces with inbound tourism is that few tourists visit just one area, and therefore fly to the 'main' airport and then travel around from there. Most tourists visting the UK fly to London, spend some time there, and then move on. Few visit just London, but that is where they start.

I'm a travel agent in Australia, and pretty much the only passengers we book to MAN/BHX/NCL etc are either migrants visiting home or Australians with family in those areas. In three years I have booked one "tourist", as opposed to VFR, to MAN. Interestingly enough that was to go to a game at Anfield!

This does go both ways, as the vast majority of British tourists visiting Australia fly into Sydney unless they have family and friends in Melbourne, Brisbane or Perth. They spend a few days in Sydney, and then fly on to the Reef or wherever else they are visiting.

The 'main' city really does have a massive advantage from name recognition and memory recall!

That is an interesting point, and I wonder what (if anything) can be done about it.

Particularly between the UK and Australia, the options to MAN are not far short of the options to LHR. I'd expect a fair amount of Australian originating traffic (including expats) to enter Europe using a pretty wide spread of airports.

Certainly pushing what Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and northern England has to offer will help. But it is a slow process linked to any genuine government effort to rebalance the U.K. Economy which will take some time.

Icelandair to being the B767 to MAN this year.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Airlineroute ... 4211123200

Briefly saw something about T2 on the news yesterday and can't remember where. Said something about a new temporary gate area opening to allow the demolishing of the west end of T2? Anyone got anymore info or pics about this?

Here's what the Evening News put out

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-terminal-two-demolition-13558175

New lounge seating 650 passengers. The impotatant bits are:

"Three piers with stands for aircraft to allow smooth take-offs and departures
The goal is for the completion of Terminal Two by 2020 - but significant changes will be noticeable as early as 2019.
By 2022, Terminal One, which was built in 1962, will be phased out".

Recent renders show only 2 piers but aircraft parked either side where the 3rd pier which should be and this is the pier that could hold the USCBP (if that goes ahead)

Thanks David. I'm aware of the expansion, just didn't realise it meant demolishing anything! How many piers have been lost to make that temporary terminal?

No piers lost yet, just something like the last 4 or 5 gates on T2 have been decommissioned

August 2017 stats.

http://mediacentre.magairports.com/...r ... e-janeiro/

Passengers:
Rolling 12 month total: 27,462,76
August 2017 total: 3,166,042
Percentage change YoY: +7.9%

Cargo:
August 2017 tonnes:12,027
YoY change: +22.3%

VS expanding MAN-JFK next summer, part filling the void left by the axing of the AA service. They are to run the 744 on 4 of the 7 flights a week, whilst also using the 744 on 3 of the 7 ATL services from the same date.

Doesn't just part fill the void left by AA on JFK, it fills it completely and adds between 149-360 seats per week (depending if you count the B767 or B757 for AA).

Also,

Royal Air Maroc increase Casablanca to 4 weekly from 26th March.

And one of the new piers is starting to be constructed on T2:

Has there been anymore rumors about a DTW-MAN route starting as it is still one of the biggest wholes in the DL/VS joint venture network.

klm617 wrote:

Has there been anymore rumors about a DTW-MAN route starting as it is still one of the biggest wholes in the DL/VS joint venture network.

I've heard nothing someone else closer to Manchester might have.

[*]

klm617 wrote:

Has there been anymore rumors about a DTW-MAN route starting as it is still one of the biggest wholes in the DL/VS joint venture network.

Is it really that much of a hole in the network? Surely all DL/VS passengers connect through ATL and/or JFK? I can't imagine there'd be much O&D?

I would say it's a long shot. Especially now DL has pulled out and handed the reins to VS. As mentioned above, any connecting pax can route through ATL or JFK. Even more so now with the upgauge in seating capacity on both routes.

I think the next phase of VS growth at MAN will be growing the winter programme (primarily ATL and JFK) with summer growth aimed at markets where larger O&D demand (e.g. LAX). Whether that's S19 or later is anyone's guess.

8herveg wrote:

[*]

klm617 wrote:

Has there been anymore rumors about a DTW-MAN route starting as it is still one of the biggest wholes in the DL/VS joint venture network.

Is it really that much of a hole in the network? Surely all DL/VS passengers connect through ATL and/or JFK? I can't imagine there'd be much O&D?

I only say hole because travelers flying to an from anywhere in the upper Midwest or west of the Mississippi either have to make a detour to connect at ATL or make a double connection to reach Manchester. Puts DL at a real disadvantage against AA in those markets that can reach MAN one stop over ORD.

klm617 wrote:

8herveg wrote:

[*]

klm617 wrote:

Has there been anymore rumors about a DTW-MAN route starting as it is still one of the biggest wholes in the DL/VS joint venture network.

Is it really that much of a hole in the network? Surely all DL/VS passengers connect through ATL and/or JFK? I can't imagine there'd be much O&D?

I only say hole because travelers flying to an from anywhere in the upper Midwest or west of the Mississippi either have to make a detour to connect at ATL or make a double connection to reach Manchester. Puts DL at a real disadvantage against AA in those markets that can reach MAN one stop over ORD.

I wouldn't say it's a hole but traffic is growing at a fairly quick pace that could put it in contention for a daily flight on an aircraft around the size of a 76W in the next few years.

Propsing to extend 23L/05R opening hours next summer http://www.knutsfordguardian.co.uk/news ... ion_hours/

klm617 wrote:

8herveg wrote:

[*]

klm617 wrote:

Has there been anymore rumors about a DTW-MAN route starting as it is still one of the biggest wholes in the DL/VS joint venture network.

Is it really that much of a hole in the network? Surely all DL/VS passengers connect through ATL and/or JFK? I can't imagine there'd be much O&D?

I only say hole because travelers flying to an from anywhere in the upper Midwest or west of the Mississippi either have to make a detour to connect at ATL or make a double connection to reach Manchester. Puts DL at a real disadvantage against AA in those markets that can reach MAN one stop over ORD.

I do understand that - but wouldn't they therefore connect at JFK to reach those areas?

8herveg wrote:

klm617 wrote:

8herveg wrote:

[*]

Is it really that much of a hole in the network? Surely all DL/VS passengers connect through ATL and/or JFK? I can't imagine there'd be much O&D?

I only say hole because travelers flying to an from anywhere in the upper Midwest or west of the Mississippi either have to make a detour to connect at ATL or make a double connection to reach Manchester. Puts DL at a real disadvantage against AA in those markets that can reach MAN one stop over ORD.

I do understand that - but wouldn't they therefore connect at JFK to reach those areas?

No because Delta does not link places like OMA, DSM, MCI, STL, MKE, DEN and the like to JFK but are linked to Detroit so people in all these large cities need to make 2 stops to reach MAN or chose AA over ORD

here's something you don't see every day, if you wondered why EK22 got cancelled a couple of days ago:
Emirates A380 A6-EEI Manchester Mouse Cancellation.
Sep 25, 2017
Emirates A380 A6-EEI operated EK21 Dubai – Manchester in the early hours of this morning, however the return EK22 was cancelled after a mouse was spotted on board. The aircraft will require fumigation.
Source: theeksource.com

Following the demise of Monarch, it seems as though EasyJet, Jet2 and TUi are adding capacity at MAN to backfill.

Jet2 and TUi have releases in the public domain, EasyJet are working bathing the scenes.

Ryanair don't seem to be in a position to take advantage of the situation.

Jet2 Summer 2018:

482 weekly flights to 42 destinations.

19 aircraft based (18 in full use, one on standby), an increase of 2 aircraft.

Palma now sees 5 flights on Saturdays, including an A330 flight. Bergerac and Verona are new routes for S18, Toulouse is dropped (still served ex-MAN by Flybe).

-----------------------------

TUI will add more seats to Lanzarote, Tenerife, Lapland and Turkey amongst others.

-----------------------------

More developments to come soon. Easyjet look to be adding 3 more aircraft, Croatian Airlines are looking to add Zagreb and more long haul news due soon....

User001 wrote:

Jet2 Summer 2018:

482 weekly flights to 42 destinations.

19 aircraft based (18 in full use, one on standby), an increase of 2 aircraft.

Palma now sees 5 flights on Saturdays, including an A330 flight. Bergerac and Verona are new routes for S18, Toulouse is dropped (still served ex-MAN by Flybe).

-----------------------------

TUI will add more seats to Lanzarote, Tenerife, Lapland and Turkey amongst others.

-----------------------------

More developments to come soon. Easyjet look to be adding 3 more aircraft, Croatian Airlines are looking to add Zagreb and more long haul news due soon....

Lots being added! Wished my Airport had the same but all well are the 19 based aircraft all Jet2 aircraft or are some leased in?

User001 wrote:

Jet2 Summer 2018:

482 weekly flights to 42 destinations.

19 aircraft based (18 in full use, one on standby), an increase of 2 aircraft.

Palma now sees 5 flights on Saturdays, including an A330 flight. Bergerac and Verona are new routes for S18, Toulouse is dropped (still served ex-MAN by Flybe).

-----------------------------

TUI will add more seats to Lanzarote, Tenerife, Lapland and Turkey amongst others.

-----------------------------

More developments to come soon. Easyjet look to be adding 3 more aircraft, Croatian Airlines are looking to add Zagreb and more long haul news due soon....

MAN-TPA on Thomas Cook?

FLYKTPA wrote:

MAN-TPA on Thomas Cook?

Would love to see it, I don't think TCX's S18 programme is finalised, but at this stage I think it's less likely than not.

My expectation is that further long haul growth will be heading east, with more frequencies from existing Middle East (whatever happened to Kuwait?) and Far East carriers (plus a new airline?) and movement on a regular flight to India.

http://mag-umbraco-media-live.s3.amazon ... -2017.xlsx

Up 7.4% for Sept to 2.876 million pax.

27.7 million for the year.

Freight up 9.6% to 10,600 tonnes.

Both figures could be taking a hit soon with Monarch collapsing and Lufthansa Cargo pulling its flights.

DobboDobbo wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

MAN-TPA on Thomas Cook?

Would love to see it, I don't think TCX's S18 programme is finalised, but at this stage I think it's less likely than not.

My expectation is that further long haul growth will be heading east, with more frequencies from existing Middle East (whatever happened to Kuwait?) and Far East carriers (plus a new airline?) and movement on a regular flight to India.

You mention 'whatever happened to Kuwait?' I am glad you asked as I am also curious, the same could also be said about the proposed link to Shanghai with Air China 'what ever happened to that?'

DobboDobbo wrote:

I think the next phase of VS growth at MAN will be growing the winter programme (primarily ATL and JFK) with summer growth aimed at markets where larger O&D demand (e.g. LAX). Whether that's S19 or later is anyone's guess.

By growing the winter programme to ATL and JFK, it would be more a case of reverting to daily/near daily frequencies that we saw over the last 2 winters.

The demolition of T2 has started. Pretty much most of the building at 215 has gone, just leaving the grey lift and stair shaft remaining. Good riddance !

Coming down



Going up

MNG cargo will have 3 weekly flights starting 5th Nov.

All flights start at IST but call at either CDG/AMS on the way in and out.

Didn’t they operate ages ago? 6 years or so I’m guessing. Around the days you’d see a good few jumbos from Air China, China Airlines, Cathay and even Jade cargo! Was MNG on a A300?

They have visited on diverts and the odd ad-hoc flight.

We are always the first alternate for the LTN flights hence they are coming here while LTN closed, but looking to go permanent.

New route time, and we have a random pair. Cambridge and Gothenburg:

BA8235 MAN 0720 CBG 0805/0830 GOT 1130
BA8236 GOT 1625 CBG 1725 /1750 MAN 1835

Mon/Tue/Thu from Oct 30th

Will be interesting to see what the aircraft does either side of these flights as clearly the aircraft starts/ends its day at MAN but I cannot see another flight that gets the aircraft to MAN (such as extra BLL flights).

I also highly doubt the MAN-CBG-MAN sectors will be bookable as stand alone flights,

Publicly viewable in the OneWorld timetable and GDS.

Finnair boosting capacity on their HEL run by adding 2700 extra seats this winter with A319s/A320s replacing the Emb190 (conicide with them adding extra frrequencies to various Lapland airports)

User001 wrote:

New route time, and we have a random pair. Cambridge and Gothenburg:

BA8235 MAN 0720 CBG 0805/0830 GOT 1130
BA8236 GOT 1625 CBG 1725 /1750 MAN 1835

Mon/Tue/Thu from Oct 30th

Will be interesting to see what the aircraft does either side of these flights as clearly the aircraft starts/ends its day at MAN but I cannot see another flight that gets the aircraft to MAN (such as extra BLL flights).

I also highly doubt the MAN-CBG-MAN sectors will be bookable as stand alone flights,

Publicly viewable in the OneWorld timetable and GDS.

No direct flights from MAN to GOT are bookable on BA’s website, they’re all via London.

The flight has actually started but isn't on BA.com yet, it is, however, in the BA timetable and bookable via some 3rd party sites, but at £1300 Rtn for a flight that also stops at CBG, most will probably continue to route throug other hubs,

User001 wrote:

The flight has actually started but isn't on BA.com yet, it is, however, in the BA timetable and bookable via some 3rd party sites, but at £1300 Rtn for a flight that also stops at CBG, most will probably continue to route throug other hubs,

But available on the cheap via the miracle of avios! Going to look into this interesting little route that I assume uses a DO328 Jet like the last time we had GOT on the boards?

HL8080 just landing now - SK Telecom A319CJ. What's it doing in does anybody know ?

In for the football match tomorrow night.

Bit of a keynote day in that we've had an actual breakdown on the impact of a new long-haul route has had... namely the Hainan route to Beijing:

http://www.adsadvance.co.uk/manchester-beijing-air-route-delivers-china-dividend-to-northern-powerhouse.html

>>> UK exports to China up by 265% to £200m per month
>>> the value of tourism by Chinese nationals doubled to nearly £140m
>>> passenger numbers are 15% greater than expected
>>> the MAN-PEK O+D figures are up 38% to nearly 75,000

And a couple of quotes:
1) From the UK Government Minister for the Northern Powerhouse "I feel there is a real appetite in exploring launching airline routes from Manchester to other regions in China"
2) Hainan's UK General Manager : “We have been extremely pleased with the Manchester-Beijing route, which has been one of the most successful we have launched in recent years.It has massively surpassed our predictions and expectations, which prompted us to making it daily over the summer months."