AF Pilots Approve the Creation of LCC Subsidiary Joon

simpv · Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:07 am

After three years, AF and its pilot union have agreed to create Boost, a lower-cost airline intended to reclaim ultra-competitive routes lost primarily to the ME3.

http://www.lemonde.fr/entreprises/artic ... 56994.html (in French)

It seems that if Boost still has a business class product, it is really just meant to circumvent the labor unions. Any thoughts on how successful this will be? Will it be able to compete with Norwegian or Level? And any thoughts on the new routes?

airproxx · Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:04 am

the Boost projet has never been a Long Haul Low Cost project to compete with Level or Norwegian. Never. It's been wrongly reported by some medias but the goal of Boost was simply to tend to reduce cost on a Europe to Asia axis, in order to regain market share against the ME3. In clear: all the AF product or close, but at a lower cost/price.

Noshow · Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:25 am

The are permitted to have ten long range aircraft for starters. Plus 18 midrange aircraft. So, yes, it is some sort of long range airline too.

HEATHROWHUNTER · Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:53 am

Any idea on what aircraft type they will use for this project ?

Revelation · Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:53 am

Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boost ). Not sure if this is the angle they're going for, but perhaps they want people to think they're getting such a good price it is a steal?

ME720 · Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:00 pm

Boost means improve or increase, at least to those of us who are not from the US. AF is French, and the target seems to be the local French and European markets..flying to Asia, and competing with the ME3! I would say that a steal was not on their mind when they chose Boost as a name for the new venture..

dfwneedsqf · Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:54 pm

Revelation wrote:
Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boost ). Not sure if this is the angle they're going for, but perhaps they want people to think they're getting such a good price it is a steal?

Maybe Urban Dictionary isn't the best source :wave:

LFLL · Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:29 pm

HEATHROWHUNTER wrote:
Any idea on what aircraft type they will use for this project ?

In 2020 Boost will have a fleet of 28 aircrafts composed of :
- 18 narrowbody from A320 family
- 10 widebody (A340 and A350)

The airline is planing to start medium haul flights in october of this year with 6 A320. Then, they will start long haul operations in spring 2018 with 3 or 4 A340.

Dutchy · Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:36 pm

So the pilots are willing to give-up their private toilet?

We'll see if this is going to work. I am skeptic though.

KarelXWB · Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:39 pm

So they finally nailed it.

Revelation wrote:
Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boost ). Not sure if this is the angle they're going for, but perhaps they want people to think they're getting such a good price it is a steal?

The way I understand it, Boost is just a project name, like that Lufthansa Wings project. We won't be seeing airplanes with Boost titles painted on the fuselage.

LFLL wrote:
In 2020 Boost ~~will~~ plans to have a fleet of 28 aircrafts composed of :

Fixed!

LFLL · Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:01 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
So they finally nailed it.

Revelation wrote:
Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boost ). Not sure if this is the angle they're going for, but perhaps they want people to think they're getting such a good price it is a steal?

The way I understand it, Boost is just a project name, like that Lufthansa Wings project. We won't be seeing airplanes with Boost titles painted on the fuselage.

LFLL wrote:
In 2020 Boost ~~will~~ plans to have a fleet of 28 aircrafts composed of :

Fixed!

I heard they started working on a livery with "Boost" on the tail, so who knows ?

Revelation · Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:25 pm

dfwneedsqf wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boost ). Not sure if this is the angle they're going for, but perhaps they want people to think they're getting such a good price it is a steal?

Maybe Urban Dictionary isn't the best source

It actually is, if you are looking for US English slang usage, which I was.

However, above, we're told this meaning isn't present in France or the rest of Europe, so all is good.

I hope the project works well for AF. Getting union buy-in is an important step.

simpv · Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:18 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
So they finally nailed it.

Revelation wrote:
Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boost ). Not sure if this is the angle they're going for, but perhaps they want people to think they're getting such a good price it is a steal?

The way I understand it, Boost is just a project name, like that Lufthansa Wings project. We won't be seeing airplanes with Boost titles painted on the fuselage.

LFLL wrote:
In 2020 Boost ~~will~~ plans to have a fleet of 28 aircrafts composed of :

Fixed!

So will the passenger experience be the same? Perhaps like a LH CityLine, where, aside from the Star Alliance livery, there is no experiential difference?

32andBelow · Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:33 pm

Revelation wrote:
Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boost ). Not sure if this is the angle they're going for, but perhaps they want people to think they're getting such a good price it is a steal?

Wrong, fake news, alternative facts. I've never heard it used this way.

RyanairGuru · Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:36 pm

This is like the Lufthansa Cityline A340s, which were also wrongly reported as being an LCC product. The lower costs come from circumventing the mainline unions, but product wise is basically the same. Most passengers would have no idea whether they are on Air France or Boost.

axiom · Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:42 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boost ). Not sure if this is the angle they're going for, but perhaps they want people to think they're getting such a good price it is a steal?

Wrong, fake news, alternative facts. I've never heard it used this way.

Your lack of familiarity with a meaning or application of language doesn't negate it's existence.

VCEflyboy · Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:44 pm

It's not only boost. Level, scoot, jump... its appalling how iconic global airlines could care less about the marketing and branding of their low cost products. It's like it's just a way to cut labour costs rather than launching something new. It's just appalling.

axiom · Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:54 pm

VCEflyboy wrote:
It's not only boost. Level, scoot, jump... its appalling how iconic global airlines could care less about the marketing and branding of their low cost products. It's like it's just a way to cut labour costs rather than launching something new. It's just appalling.

But sometimes it is just a way to cut costs, not a new brand...

tlecam · Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:01 pm

Boost is definitely slang in the US for stealing or theft - boosting a car is the most common phrase that comes to mind, mostly used in inner cities, from my experience.

Interestingly, boosting a car also means jumping the car battery (e.g. if the battery is dead).

The uses are also related, but thiefs often used t hot wire a car in order to steal it.

Context is important.

Edit to add - the best pop culture reference I can find is the movie " Stand by Me".

spinotter · Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:59 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boost ). Not sure if this is the angle they're going for, but perhaps they want people to think they're getting such a good price it is a steal?

Wrong, fake news, alternative facts. I've never heard it used this way.

Then you are not living in 2017 USA. Everyone knows someone who boosted stuff from Safeway or Walmart. You must live in a protected enclave.

r2rho · Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:23 pm

Boost, Hop, Jump... IAG seems the odd one out here, by wanting to stay Level

I agree that this looks like a LH Jump scheme though, in other words, the customer will never see the name, it will just be a lower cost base operation of AF.

SomebodyInTLS · Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:43 pm

dfwneedsqf wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boost ). Not sure if this is the angle they're going for, but perhaps they want people to think they're getting such a good price it is a steal?

Maybe Urban Dictionary isn't the best source

Urban Dictionary is a load of [expletive deleted] in my experience.

Whenever I look up a term the Urban Dictionary spouts some childish (and I suspect fictional) reference to fornication and/or masturbation - yet I can find completely different definitions elsewhere which make sense in the context I'm looking at.

In the case of "boost" I am aware of the (US) slang usage, but I would never have trusted Urban Dictionary's word for that. Zero credibility as dfwneedsqf suggests.

Yflyer · Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:02 pm

Revelation wrote:
Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal

Funnily enough, when I saw the title I first thought of Boost Mobile (A cut-rate mobile phone service in the US). And while I was aware of the slang usage, I had never associated that meaning with the mobile phone service, although I probably will now that you've pointed it out.

mozart · Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:25 pm

r2rho wrote:
Boost, Hop, Jump... IAG seems the odd one out here, by wanting to stay Level

I agree that this looks like a LH Jump scheme though, in other words, the customer will never see the name, it will just be a lower cost base operation of AF.

... with the small but signficant difference that Lufthansa JUMP has managed to lower costs by having crews on contracts that are less onerous. For Boost, pilots are AF pilots with AF contracts and full AF salary. To be fair, that "full AF contract" has been amended as well and pilots get 12 less rest days per year, but still, this is far from creating a second operating platform at lower costs. The pilots' union has prevailed in their insistence that there should not be two different categories of "AF" pilots.

And they have succeeded in something else, which I am surprised no one has picked up as it is the most emblematic example of strategic stupidity: AF has agreed to "give market share back to AF from KL".

There is a lot of applause in France currently for the CEO for having succeeded the negotiations. Which I find surprising given how utterly flawed that deal is.

QueenoftheSkies · Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:14 pm

Whatever the meaning, Boost is such a ridiculous name, albeit not the most ridiculous out there.
Lufthansa CityLine sounds classy and sexy. But then again anything with Lufthansa name attached to it will have the same effect.

Jetty · Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:16 am

mozart wrote:
r2rho wrote:
For Boost, pilots are AF pilots with AF contracts and full AF salary. To be fair, that "full AF contract" has been amended as well and pilots get 12 less rest days per year, but still, this is far from creating a second operating platform at lower costs.

There is another change for Boost pilots iirc, they'll be losing their private toilet!

admanager · Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:23 am

Another definition...Boost is a brand name for a liquid nutrition drink for the elderly. Just what we need, an airline for seniors.

KarelXWB · Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:32 am

Air France confirms that Boost is just a project name, the new airline will be named "Joon".

https://twitter.com/AirFranceFR/status/ ... 7243939840
https://twitter.com/weflyjoon

N14AZ · Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:34 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Air France confirms that Boost is just a project name, the new airline will be named "Joon".

https://twitter.com/AirFranceFR/status/ ... 7243939840
https://twitter.com/weflyjoon

??? How do you pronounce this? I guess like "June", correct? What's the explanation for that name (provided there is one....)?

KarelXWB · Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:41 am

No idea how to pronounce it. Here's the press release, in French:

http://corporate.airfrance.com//fr/actu ... uvrez-joon

N14AZ · Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:46 am

KarelXWB wrote:
No idea how to pronounce it. Here's the press release, in French:

http://corporate.airfrance.com//fr/actu ... uvrez-joon

Thanks, they also have a buttom to switch to English. From that link:

Joon is especially aimed at a young working clientele, the millennials (18 to 35 year-olds), whose lifestyles revolve around digital technology. This new brand has been entirely designed to meet their requirements and aspirations, with an authentic and connected offering that stands out in the world of air transport.

Joon is a lifestyle brand and a state of mind. Short, punchy and international, the name Joon is designed to address a worldwide audience.

Maybe the word JOON comes from jeunne (young) and connect...

N14AZ · Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:51 am

Hmm, will we see a come-back of the old UTA-livery? :scratchchin:

User mercure1 might be delighted... ;-)

simpv · Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:54 am

N14AZ wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
No idea how to pronounce it. Here's the press release, in French:

http://corporate.airfrance.com//fr/actu ... uvrez-joon

Thanks, they also have a buttom to switch to English. From that link:

Joon is especially aimed at a young working clientele, the millennials (18 to 35 year-olds), whose lifestyles revolve around digital technology. This new brand has been entirely designed to meet their requirements and aspirations, with an authentic and connected offering that stands out in the world of air transport.

Joon is a lifestyle brand and a state of mind. Short, punchy and international, the name Joon is designed to address a worldwide audience.

Maybe the word JOON comes from jeunne (young) and connect...

Yeah, it must come from jeune...though that's a pretty tenuous reason to rename an entire airline...

Makes Level seem like a great name now!

smokeybandit · Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:59 am

In 40 years of knowing US English as my native language, I've never heard boost used as negative slang for something.

runway23 · Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:35 am

N14AZ wrote:
Hmm, will we see a come-back of the old UTA-livery?

User mercure1 might be delighted...

Will the exit doors be painted green ?

SomebodyInTLS · Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:22 am

N14AZ wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
No idea how to pronounce it. Here's the press release, in French:

http://corporate.airfrance.com//fr/actu ... uvrez-joon

Thanks, they also have a buttom to switch to English. From that link:

Joon is especially aimed at a young working clientele, the millennials (18 to 35 year-olds), whose lifestyles revolve around digital technology. This new brand has been entirely designed to meet their requirements and aspirations, with an authentic and connected offering that stands out in the world of air transport.

Joon is a lifestyle brand and a state of mind. Short, punchy and international, the name Joon is designed to address a worldwide audience.

Maybe the word JOON comes from jeunne (young) and connect...

The French have a history of misspelling words phonetically... but only for French speakers. E.g. the Renault Kangoo is *not* pronounced like kangaroo... it should be pronounced kango - i.e. "Can go" in English. A similar example; when I first arrived in the early 2000s there were a lot of street vending machines labelled "K7" - it took me a few months before I realised that in French that is ka-sept (kay-seven) or cassette... the machines were for VHS video rental.

In this case I agree that Joon should be pronounced like the female name Joan in English - in other words like the French word jeune (young).

It's like the various contractions people use in SMS messages all over the world - except no-one else then goes on to name products like that. I don't know if they realise that their "funny" names make no sense to anyone else... and that everyone else will pronounce it "wrong" anyway!

jnev3289 · Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:19 pm

Swing and a miss for me name-wise

oldannyboy · Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:53 pm

spinotter wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boost ). Not sure if this is the angle they're going for, but perhaps they want people to think they're getting such a good price it is a steal?

Wrong, fake news, alternative facts. I've never heard it used this way.

Then you are not living in 2017 USA. Everyone knows someone who boosted stuff from Safeway or Walmart. You must live in a protected enclave.

Most people on this forum indeed are not living in the US. Get over the fact that this is an international forum. INTERNATIONAL.

KarelXWB · Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:08 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Hmm, will we see a come-back of the old UTA-livery?

Should look like this:

https://twitter.com/TheHusbandInTow/sta ... 5206715392

Revelation · Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:10 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
spinotter wrote:
32andBelow wrote:

Revelation wrote:
Interesting. In US English slang, "boost" is to steal ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boost ). Not sure if this is the angle they're going for, but perhaps they want people to think they're getting such a good price it is a steal?

Wrong, fake news, alternative facts. I've never heard it used this way.

Then you are not living in 2017 USA. Everyone knows someone who boosted stuff from Safeway or Walmart. You must live in a protected enclave.

Most people on this forum indeed are not living in the US. Get over the fact that this is an international forum. INTERNATIONAL.

Please re-read. It's clear that I'm pointing out that it is US English slang I'm referring to, and the debate is in that context. Perhaps if AF had chosen a French name for their airline this side-discussion would not be happening. And yes, English is spoken in lots of places other than the US, but still, US English is very influential due to movies, TV, web sites, etc. Sorry if that upsets you.

jnev3289 · Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:11 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Hmm, will we see a come-back of the old UTA-livery?

Should look like this:

https://twitter.com/TheHusbandInTow/sta ... 5206715392

Barf.

LXwing · Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:11 pm

Wow, such a creative livery! :yuck:

As for the name Joon, some of the possible meanings are hottie, gay asian man, and others. :shock:

Check it out on http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=joon
I would rather prefer something like Joke or Kjoon... :lol:

N14AZ · Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:25 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Hmm, will we see a come-back of the old UTA-livery?

Should look like this:

https://twitter.com/TheHusbandInTow/sta ... 5206715392

Thanks! Why not buy this one:

80% of the painting is already done :duck:

jnev3289 · Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:28 pm

^Seems as likely as an A350 getting the "Joon" paint job

FromCDGtoSYD · Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:16 pm

So according to Jean Coulon, a director of a naming agency, As "Joon" is targeting milennials the name is a mix of the word June as a reference to the holidays and the double "o" trend with Yahoo, Google ...

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/economie/tra ... 87240.html

Better than a deformed "jeune" I guess

jnev3289 · Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:19 pm

^Amazingly terrible reasoning and final outcome

Polot · Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:00 pm

As a millennial myself Joon just comes across as Korean to me.

Nobody is going to link June with the double "o" which isn't even a trend. Does Jean Coulon know how old "Yahoo" and "Google" are now? (and LOL at giving Yahoo any form of admiration and respect in millennial's eyes) Might as well just named the company iJoon if they wanted to continue "old man out of touch with youth trying to be cool" theme.

RL777 · Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:03 pm

I'm not sure they could've picked a worse name, I guess that's the trend with LCCs....

MartijnNL · Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:07 pm

Who wants to fly with Joon? Surely it won't last just like Song, Ted and Zip? Airlines with such names deserve to disappear.

airzona11 · Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:29 pm

Interesting they are targeting millennials. I think that is just a distraction from the real purpose of cheaper operating costs. A defining characteristic of "Millennials" is not being brand loyal. They will google and what ever the cheaper price is, they will fly. It all seems cheap (not inexpensive) the branding just seems cheap. Then again Yahoo isnt a stellar brand and hasnt been for 15+years.

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