airzona11 wrote:

But what if she did pay for it? What if it was a downgrade? Surely people wouldn't be defending Delta?
Twitter provides an instantaneous outlet and feedback loop. It is not a crime or distasteful to express your anger towards a product or service that you purchased that didn't meet expectation. Maybe you wouldn't do it and complain, fine. But, if you follow the process that the airline tells you, to preselect a seat you want, and then you get there and you get moved... well DL (or any airline) why did you do that?

NOBODY IS SAYING IT IS A CRIME. But if you want to go so far as to say it's not distasteful, well, I'm not sure why I'm surprised these days with a solid 30% of the U.S. demographic. #Winning

Let me put it this way--if I owned a business, and one of my employees did that on a business trip, they'd be gone. Also goes for Chris Matthews, Rachel Maddow, etc.

ltbewr wrote:

Ms. Coulter is a well know 'conservative' celebrity commentator, she probably figured her celeb status meant special privileges she felt she was entitled to including the choice of seat she may have reserved and not have to move. I am quite sure she played her 'celeb card', ('Don't you know who I am !") something I am quite sure other celebs, even of lower status level than her have done.

Once again though, why should it matter who she is? Regardless of her name, if she reserved that seat in advance, she should get that seat, unless an operational factor doesn't allow it. This does not appear to be an operational factor, rather a cultural one. But in order to quit getting flamed by all the Delta fanboys and political trolls, I will wait until more facts come out before saying otherwise.

Doing this to a person with 1.6 million Twitter followers is beyond stupid, so Delta deserves everything they're getting for this. They are lucky that most of the media won't cover this AT ALL because the person affected does not align with the ideology they are desperately trying to push and they don't want to give Coulter any airtime.

Also, at the United guy who opened this thread, your scornful relishing in this is disgusting to say the least.

jetero wrote:

airzona11 wrote:

But what if she did pay for it? What if it was a downgrade? Surely people wouldn't be defending Delta?
Twitter provides an instantaneous outlet and feedback loop. It is not a crime or distasteful to express your anger towards a product or service that you purchased that didn't meet expectation. Maybe you wouldn't do it and complain, fine. But, if you follow the process that the airline tells you, to preselect a seat you want, and then you get there and you get moved... well DL (or any airline) why did you do that?

NOBODY IS SAYING IT IS A CRIME. But if you want to go so far as to say it's not distasteful, well, I'm not sure why I'm surprised these days with a solid 30% of the U.S. demographic. #Winning

Let me put it this way--if I owned a business, and one of my employees did that on a business trip, they'd be gone. Also goes for Chris Matthews, Rachel Maddow, etc.

Ok ok step back. I see I struck a nerve, that was not my intention. For starters, if you would fire your employees for something like this, not sure the moral high ground is where you are standing, plus you would probably catch heat for reason of termination. I said "what if she did pay for it? What if it was a downgrade?" ... are you agreeing that DL in that case should have some explaining to do? That is my point, if you paid for a service and it wasn't delivered, the airline owes an explanation (and potentially a refund). Don't care if it is Ann Coulter, Chris Matthews, Maddow or anyone. In fact it would not be surprising if people tweeted a similar complaint everyday. This is only getting attention b/c of who tweeted it. If this happened to me, I would want an explanation and if I paid for a service not received, I would fight for a refund. Nothing egregious with that.

aviationaware wrote:

Doing this to a person with 1.6 million Twitter followers is beyond stupid, so Delta deserves everything they're getting for this.

Alright, Delta Sales and Marketing group, are you hearing this? Please create a "Twitter Class" for where people with a certain number of followers can be sat and treated like gold.

aviationaware wrote:

They are lucky that most of the media won't cover this AT ALL because the person affected does not align with the ideology they are desperately trying to push and they don't want to give Coulter any airtime.

Hmmm, I thought you would've said the media is going to cover it ONLY to make fun of Coulter and have a laugh at her expense. You guys are keeping me on my toes.

jetero wrote:

aviationaware wrote:

Doing this to a person with 1.6 million Twitter followers is beyond stupid, so Delta deserves everything they're getting for this.

Alright, Delta Sales and Marketing group, are you hearing this? Please create a "Twitter Class" for where people with a certain number of followers can be sat and treated like gold.

That is actually not a bad idea. If they are going to bump people from their seats, they should at least do it to people who won't result in publicity. Then they should come up with a strategy to proactively offer an explanation. Problem solved. Customer Service, it is a beast.

airzona11 wrote:

Ok ok step back. I see I struck a nerve, that was not my intention. For starters, if you would fire your employees for something like this, not sure the moral high ground is where you are standing, plus you would probably catch heat for reason of termination.

I never stand on a moral high ground, just a rational one.

airzona11 wrote:

I said "what if she did pay for it? What if it was a downgrade?" ... are you agreeing that DL in that case should have some explaining to do? That is my point, if you paid for a service and it wasn't delivered, the airline owes an explanation (and potentially a refund). Don't care if it is Ann Coulter, Chris Matthews, Maddow or anyone.

I don't disagree. (BTW, scroll up.) Happened to me before. You get the difference in fare and an apology. And maybe something else like free FF miles if you don't act like such a baby.

arizona11 wrote:

In fact it would not be surprising if people tweeted a similar complaint everyday. This is only getting attention b/c of who tweeted it. If this happened to me, I would want an explanation and if I paid for a service not received, I would fight for a refund. Nothing egregious with that.

I agree it's getting attention because who tweeted it but hey she's a celebrity and it's not like in tweeting it she's not doing it to get attention.

What I'm all up in arms about is that it people are rising to the defense of someone who could've been asked to move from 11C to 11D for all we know at this point and thinking that the 11C "product" is something special that she paid for.

airzona11 wrote:

jetero wrote:

aviationaware wrote:

Doing this to a person with 1.6 million Twitter followers is beyond stupid, so Delta deserves everything they're getting for this.

Alright, Delta Sales and Marketing group, are you hearing this? Please create a "Twitter Class" for where people with a certain number of followers can be sat and treated like gold.

That is actually not a bad idea. If they are going to bump people from their seats, they should at least do it to people who won't result in publicity. Then they should come up with a strategy to proactively offer an explanation. Problem solved. Customer Service, it is a beast.

OK, Delta, let me send you my FF account for my royalties!

If I ran Delta, I'd permanently ban this over-reactive, vindictive woman from my airline. Having her business is not worth the aggravation. -ir

I just have one thing to say. Her two pictures don't agree with each other. If she took the first picture from her original seat it was a window on the left side of the plane. She then took a picture of the woman who took her seat, on the right side of the plane in an aisle. Things that make you go hmmm.....

IslandRob wrote:

If I ran Delta, I'd permanently ban this over-reactive, vindictive woman from my airline. Having her business is not worth the aggravation. -ir

I believe at one point Continental banned Sheila Jackson Lee and Victoria Osteen on separate occasions, certainly two different sides of the political spectrum, for consistently brutish behavior towards flight attendants.

jetero wrote:

What I'm all up in arms about is that it people are rising to the defense of someone who could've been asked to move from 11C to 11D for all we know at this point and thinking that the 11C "product" is something special that she paid for.

Based on the pictures Ms. Coulter posted, she had reserved a "D" seat(an aisle seat). It's hard to tell based on the picture, but she was moved to either an "A" (a window seat) or even worse, a "B" seat (the dreaded middle). This is a significant downgrade from an aisle seat, especially for someone who is taller.

ual763 wrote:

jetero wrote:

What I'm all up in arms about is that it people are rising to the defense of someone who could've been asked to move from 11C to 11D for all we know at this point and thinking that the 11C "product" is something special that she paid for.

Based on the pictures Ms. Coulter posted, she had reserved a "D" seat(an aisle seat). It's hard to tell based on the picture, but she was moved to either an "A" (a window seat) or even worse, a "B" seat (the dreaded middle). This is a significant downgrade from an aisle seat, especially for someone who is taller.

I have nothing to say other than it happens everyday. Not necessarily under these same circumstances, necessarily, but it does (seats being broken, families being seated together, etc., etc., etc.) and anyone who thinks it doesn't is truly a partisan. She can write a note to Delta Customer Service and request compensation, but Delta is not obligated to provide under the conditions of carriage.

ual763 wrote:

This is a significant downgrade from an aisle seat, especially for someone who is taller.

There are some tall people who wouldn't give a damn or even would see it the opposite way. There are plenty of people who would get upset. Don't know how many people would go on a similar rant. And I'm not sure how many people would think all of the behavior, taken together, was justifiable. But, hey, it's en vogue again to get outraged at airline employees whenever given an inch of opportunity.

jetero wrote:

Dammit ... if Delta kicked Ann Coulter off the plane, I'm going to have to switch airlines again ... and go back to Delta.

Almost enough to start liking Delta, but alas their all Airbus (foreign) heavy strategy yet complaining about foreign competition (ME3) makes me hate them still.

burnsie28 wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Indy wrote:

Is she upset that a woman got her seat or that an attractive woman got her seat? She is just mad that she had to gate check her broom.

She was mad that they took the premium economy seat she had paid extra for to a short woman who doesn't need the leg room. BTW Ann Coulter is 6 feet (183 cm) tall. I don't Blame her for being upset.

It was posted in another site that she put in for an upgrade, got the upgrade but it was a middle seat, and decided to take her original seat, which at that point had been given away.

But she was seated in C+. If that was her original seat, she must have been upgraded to F. DL does not have middle F seats.

michman wrote:

burnsie28 wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

She was mad that they took the premium economy seat she had paid extra for to a short woman who doesn't need the leg room. BTW Ann Coulter is 6 feet (183 cm) tall. I don't Blame her for being upset.

It was posted in another site that she put in for an upgrade, got the upgrade but it was a middle seat, and decided to take her original seat, which at that point had been given away.

But she was seated in C+. If that was her original seat, she must have been upgraded to F. DL does not have middle F seats.

DL has an upgrade list for Comfort+.

Well the truth is coming out ... maybe they didn't even take her seat after all.

Who knows it could have been a gate agent with a political axe to grind or it could have been an innocent seat duplication issue that happens all the time everyday. There are always two sides to every story.

ltbewr wrote:

Ms. Coulter is a well know 'conservative' celebrity commentator, she probably figured her celeb status meant special privileges she felt she was entitled to including the choice of seat she may have reserved and not have to move. I am quite sure she played her 'celeb card', ('Don't you know who I am !") something I am quite sure other celebs, even of lower status level than her have done.

Do people here not care how they are treated on an airplane? I swear, it's bizarre. If someone came up to me and told me I had to move out of my seat without a reason or apology, and i got put in a lesser seat or one I wasn't comfortable in, I'd be unhappy. I get that some people would say "Shut up and get over it." but again, airlines encourage us to choose a better seat, pay extra for it, become frequent flyers - and then when they jerk us around we are supposed to smile and say thank you. This is why you have cellphones thrust in employee's faces.

Forget who she is for a minute - are you seriously saying you're cool with them doing that to you?

jetero wrote:

But, hey, it's en vogue again to get outraged at airline employees whenever given an inch of opportunity.

Says the guy who can't stop going on and on about the "who" instead of the "what". Fine - you can't stand her - but are you saying you are good with being pushed around by companies you give your money to? It's a celebrity this time. Next time, it's people like my daughter who was treated poorly by an FA on an AS flight awhile back. No excuse for being treated like dirt for asking questions or just wanting an apology.

But hey - a gift card or some frequent flyer miles makes it ok I guess.

Maybe Ann Colter was moved to accommodate a Federal Air Marshall. If that is the case, she will not be told the reason.

jetero wrote:

michman wrote:

burnsie28 wrote:

It was posted in another site that she put in for an upgrade, got the upgrade but it was a middle seat, and decided to take her original seat, which at that point had been given away.

But she was seated in C+. If that was her original seat, she must have been upgraded to F. DL does not have middle F seats.

DL has an upgrade list for Comfort+.

Well the truth is coming out ... maybe they didn't even take her seat after all.

There's always more to the story. I've read three different accounts so far. Who knows?

ooslc wrote:

I just have one thing to say. Her two pictures don't agree with each other. If she took the first picture from her original seat it was a window on the left side of the plane. She then took a picture of the woman who took her seat, on the right side of the plane in an aisle. Things that make you go hmmm.....

No need for conspiracy theories, DL has already confirmed they moved her from an aisle to window seat in the exit row (same row). So the seat picture is from her new seat. No, not really that big of a deal, but why make Ann move instead of just giving the other passenger the window seat?

PlanesNTrains wrote:

ltbewr wrote:

Ms. Coulter is a well know 'conservative' celebrity commentator, she probably figured her celeb status meant special privileges she felt she was entitled to including the choice of seat she may have reserved and not have to move. I am quite sure she played her 'celeb card', ('Don't you know who I am !") something I am quite sure other celebs, even of lower status level than her have done.

Do people here not care how they are treated on an airplane? I swear, it's bizarre. If someone came up to me and told me I had to move out of my seat without a reason or apology, and i got put in a lesser seat or one I wasn't comfortable in, I'd be unhappy. I get that some people would say "Shut up and get over it." but again, airlines encourage us to choose a better seat, pay extra for it, become frequent flyers - and then when they jerk us around we are supposed to smile and say thank you. This is why you have cellphones thrust in employee's faces.

Forget who she is for a minute - are you seriously saying you're cool with them doing that to you?

jetero wrote:

But, hey, it's en vogue again to get outraged at airline employees whenever given an inch of opportunity.

Says the guy who can't stop going on and on about the "who" instead of the "what". Fine - you can't stand her - but are you saying you are good with being pushed around by companies you give your money to? It's a celebrity this time. Next time, it's people like my daughter who was treated poorly by an FA on an AS flight awhile back. No excuse for being treated like dirt for asking questions or just wanting an apology.

But hey - a gift card or some frequent flyer miles makes it ok I guess.

I really have no idea what you're talking about. Nothing I've read about what happened justifies her behavior, that's all. And I've been pretty consistent about it. I don't know how that means I'm "good with being pushed around by companies I give my money to" or being "treated like dirt."

I've flown 1.5 million miles. And it is the case that while I've encountered some inconveniences every now and then and certainly some indifferent service rather more frequently than I would have cared for, I have never experienced wholly callous and inexcusable behavior. And I think 90% of these stories do come out to be baseless when all the details are commonly understood.

And don't think I'll make apologies for any airline--they all leave much to be desired and to call any of them (Delta, United, American, Southwest, Spirit, any of them) a shining example of consistent customer service would be gross hyperbole.

Anyway, sorry your daughter was yelled at. Or whatever.

jetero wrote:

IslandRob wrote:

If I ran Delta, I'd permanently ban this over-reactive, vindictive woman from my airline. Having her business is not worth the aggravation. -ir

I believe at one point Continental banned Sheila Jackson Lee and Victoria Osteen on separate occasions, certainly two different sides of the political spectrum, for consistently brutish behavior towards flight attendants.

If I remember correctly, Sheila Jackson Lee got very upset at the catering on her flight from DC to Houston and caused a scene and Continental responded by saying that they would mail her a Delta timetable (back when airlines actually published timetables)

PlanesNTrains wrote:

jetero wrote:

michman wrote:

But she was seated in C+. If that was her original seat, she must have been upgraded to F. DL does not have middle F seats.

DL has an upgrade list for Comfort+.

Well the truth is coming out ... maybe they didn't even take her seat after all.

There's always more to the story. I've read three different accounts so far. Who knows?

But in all of those, she was moved from one seat to another in the same row. I can't believe we're this far in to a thread still debating that as a gross injustice that then qualifies Delta as the "worst airline in the world" and justifies her harassment of other passengers.

The only reason we're having the conversation is because she is a political figure, and it speaks to a certain demographic's deep-seated (PUN!) persecution complex.

jetero wrote:

michman wrote:

burnsie28 wrote:

It was posted in another site that she put in for an upgrade, got the upgrade but it was a middle seat, and decided to take her original seat, which at that point had been given away.

But she was seated in C+. If that was her original seat, she must have been upgraded to F. DL does not have middle F seats.

DL has an upgrade list for Comfort+.

Well the truth is coming out ... maybe they didn't even take her seat after all.

When I heard she had an extra room seat, I assumed she was already in Comfort+. So now I see it was really just an exit row seat. So, yes, it is now more plausible she could have been upgraded to C+ middle when she already had an aisle exit row and decided to keep the exit row seat. However, I would think DL would have mentioned that in their explanation (and they did not). So that story sounds more like mere speculation.

The political debate aside, unless you are making me switch my seat because you are either A. Upgrading me or B. There is a safety reason (such as weight/balance) I am not giving up my seat I booked in advanced and possibly paid money for. I don't care about your kids, I don't care if you're BF/GF, I don't care if you oversold the flight, not my problem. Take it up with my lawyers if you want to screw me over.

I see the figure that is the topic of conversation as one of the most toxic talking heads in the nation, but I also find the scenario -- or, the scenario we have painted for us based on the limited information available -- to be frustrating. It's always an inconvenience to not be able to enjoy the product one purchased, especially as a tall person in Y/Y+. There are some reasons that are more reasonable -- like operational issues -- and others -- like cultural norms, such as forcing passengers around families -- that I felt less acceptable. Regardless of the specifics of this situation, I would really like see airlines honor the essence of the agreement they have entered with passengers. (Please spare me the CoC fine print debate.)

PlanesNTrains wrote:

jetero wrote:

michman wrote:

But she was seated in C+. If that was her original seat, she must have been upgraded to F. DL does not have middle F seats.

DL has an upgrade list for Comfort+.

Well the truth is coming out ... maybe they didn't even take her seat after all.

There's always more to the story. I've read three different accounts so far. Who knows?

I blame the news media. They no longer use the inverse pyramid style of writing to structure news stories. They create clickbait by stretching out the presentation of the facts in order to maximize the number of ads the readers see.

jetero wrote:

[I really have no idea what you're talking about. Nothing I've read about what happened justifies her behavior, that's all. And I've been pretty consistent about it. I don't know how that means I'm "good with being pushed around by companies I give my money to" or being "treated like dirt.".

Well you seem to be bending over backwards to find reasons why she shouldn't be upset. After all, lots of tall people would be fine with being moved to an aisle, so why shouldn't she? I mean, is there a point where it's ok for a customer to complain? I agree with her approach being wrong, but it seems like you are more into her and her approach than anything about the issue at hand. I get that people don't like her - that's her bread and butter. My issue is with people being ok with FAs being unappreciative, unprofessional, uncaring, unempathetic, etc. If you are going to drag my ass out of my seat that I spent time looking through various flights for and paid extra for, the least you can do is make it as pleasant as possible.

Another thought, maybe she showed up less than 10 minutes before departure and they released her seat. Then she showed up and was told her seat had been given away.

holeham wrote:

Another thought, maybe she showed up less than 10 minutes before departure and they released her seat. Then she showed up and was told her seat had been given away.

She would have known that when she checked in, not after boarding the plane.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Well you seem to be bending over backwards to find reasons why she shouldn't be upset. After all, lots of tall people would be fine with being moved to an aisle, so why shouldn't she?

No, sir, I'm not. I honestly (and obviously) don't care if she's upset or not. What I've been trying to consistently say is that we still don't have much of a clue as to what happened. But that hasn't stopped a lot of people from treating it like the rapture. If, for example, the Comfort Plus story is true, then the real story is she should be p*ssed over Delta's Comfort Plus upgrade policy. A fine topic for a thread.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

I mean, is there a point where it's ok for a customer to complain?

OK, sure, so why not start a thread on that topic, too? But wouldn't you rather be more confident about what actually happened before getting all whacked out about airline mistreatment of passengers?

PlanesNTrains wrote:

I agree with her approach being wrong, but it seems like you are more into her and her approach than anything about the issue at hand.

Fine, PNT, guilty as charged. I've focused on the behavior because, honestly, that's all we know with half-certainty at this point, and very few people will concede that it was even a bit over the top, even for someone who admittedly had to switch seats (that's the true bending over backward gymnastics on this thread). And I'm obviously not a fan of Ann Coulter. Thanks for your agreement that the approach was wrong, however many posts in, because that's all I'm trying to say.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

My issue is with people being ok with FAs being unappreciative, unprofessional, uncaring, unempathetic, etc. If you are going to drag my ass out of my seat that I spent time looking through various flights for and paid extra for, the least you can do is make it as pleasant as possible.

I'd say there's a decent enough chance that you jumped to that conclusion as being what happened here. Her a*s surely wasn't dragged, that's for sure.

I think everyone is missing an important point: Only those who are well versed in airline speak know that "reserved", when used by airlines, does not mean what the dictionary says it means. The seat is not set aside for the person that reserves it. The use of the word with a definition that is not common to the passengers leads to misunderstandings, which lead to passengers knocked out by cops (United) and twitter storms (here).

Airlines could easily dispense with all of these issues by speaking the language their passengers speak. Instead of "reserved", they should say "preferred seat", or something similar. Use of such language will communicate to the passenger that the seat IS NOT set aside for thier use, even if they pay extra for it.

ual763 wrote:

Once again though, why should it matter who she is? Regardless of her name, if she reserved that seat in advance, she should get that seat, unless an operational factor doesn't allow it. This does not appear to be an operational factor, rather a cultural one. But in order to quit getting flamed by all the Delta fanboys and political trolls, I will wait until more facts come out before saying otherwise.

Delta's CoC makes no assertions that any passenger are guaranteed their reserved seat assignment.

Delta will exercise reasonable efforts to carry passengers and their baggage according to Delta’s published schedules and the schedule reflected on the passenger’s ticket, but published schedules, flight times, aircraft type, seat assignments, and similar details reflected in
the ticket or Delta’s published schedules are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. Delta may substitute alternate carriers or aircraft, delay or cancel flights, change seat assignments, and alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket at any time. Schedules are subject to change without notice. Except as stated in this rule, Delta will have no liability for making connections, failing to operate any flight according to schedule, changing the schedule for any flight, changing seat assignments or aircraft types, or revising the routings by which Delta carries the passenger from the ticketed origin to destination.

She has a right to complain, but her attempt at shaming the other passenger in this matter is clearly distasteful. She should have just kept her rant targeted towards Delta.

jetero wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Well you seem to be bending over backwards to find reasons why she shouldn't be upset. After all, lots of tall people would be fine with being moved to an aisle, so why shouldn't she?

No, sir, I'm not. I honestly (and obviously) don't care if she's upset or not. What I've been trying to consistently say is that we still don't have much of a clue as to what happened. But that hasn't stopped a lot of people from treating it like the rapture. If, for example, the Comfort Plus story is true, then the real story is she should be p*ssed over Delta's Comfort Plus upgrade policy. A fine topic for a thread.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

I mean, is there a point where it's ok for a customer to complain?

OK, sure, so why not start a thread on that topic, too? But wouldn't you rather be more confident about what actually happened before getting all whacked out about airline mistreatment of passengers?

PlanesNTrains wrote:

I agree with her approach being wrong, but it seems like you are more into her and her approach than anything about the issue at hand.

Fine, PNT, guilty as charged. I've focused on the behavior because, honestly, that's all we know with half-certainty at this point, and very few people will concede that it was even a bit over the top, even for someone who admittedly had to switch seats (that's the true bending over backward gymnastics on this thread). And I'm obviously not a fan of Ann Coulter. Thanks for your agreement that the approach was wrong, however many posts in, because that's all I'm trying to say.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

My issue is with people being ok with FAs being unappreciative, unprofessional, uncaring, unempathetic, etc. If you are going to drag my ass out of my seat that I spent time looking through various flights for and paid extra for, the least you can do is make it as pleasant as possible.

I'd say there's a decent enough chance that you jumped to that conclusion as being what happened here. Her a*s surely wasn't dragged, that's for sure.

Yes. While a lot of us would prefer to talk about this alleged event and whether it is right or wrong, your focus has been on her and her behavior. The problem is, for a lot of us, we are tired of seeing this from the airline every bit as much as from the passenger. I'm sick of the cellphone thing, but at the same time, when FAs treat people poorly, and when the airlines will throw your butt off the plane for standing up for yourself, we have a service problem.

I like what someone above said about rephrasing things. If I'm told my "preferred seat" or "first choice seat" is 1A, then perhaps that'd tone things down. However, at the same time, they'll need to stop charging extra for a window or whatever if they aren't going to honor it for their own convenience.

Anyhow, whatever. i agree we don't know the facts. I'd prefer to talk about what allegedly happened rather than focus on whether we think this particular passenger is worthy or not. The David Dao threads got embarrassing with how people used their judgment of his character as a justification for having the crap beat out of him and getting dragged off a plane.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Anyhow, whatever. i agree we don't know the facts. I'd prefer to talk about what allegedly happened rather than focus on whether we think this particular passenger is worthy or not. The David Dao threads got embarrassing with how people used their judgment of his character as a justification for having the crap beat out of him and getting dragged off a plane.

I'd love to talk about what allegedly happened to.

1 of maybe 3 stories (if you count rant as story) was she asked for a Comfort Plus upgrade, got it, then said no thanks, I'll stick with my aisle.

Do you think Delta should hold a seat until a passenger inspects and decides it's OK?

This is talking about what allegedly happened.

If you do think she was dragged from her seat, how would you propose to change? Force more self-regulation on the airlines? Create new Passenger Bill of Rights legislation?

I'm usually against class action lawsuits, but I think it's time. These airlines are pushing and pushing and pushing and it's time for the consumer to fight back. If I book/pay for a seat assignment I better get it or else i'd expect a refund of my fare. Fair is fair.

jetero wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Anyhow, whatever. i agree we don't know the facts. I'd prefer to talk about what allegedly happened rather than focus on whether we think this particular passenger is worthy or not. The David Dao threads got embarrassing with how people used their judgment of his character as a justification for having the crap beat out of him and getting dragged off a plane.

I'd love to talk about what allegedly happened to.

1 of maybe 3 stories (if you count rant as story) was she asked for a Comfort Plus upgrade, got it, then said no thanks, I'll stick with my aisle.

Do you think Delta should hold a seat until a passenger inspects and decides it's OK?

This is talking about what allegedly happened.

If you do think she was dragged from her seat, how would you propose to change? Force more self-regulation on the airlines? Create new Passenger Bill of Rights legislation?

It's simple. Apologize. Profusely, if needed. Reassure the customer that they will be taken care of financially for the inconvenience. It doesn't even matter if the airline was right or wrong, it matters that they've done everything they can to smooth it over. At a minimum, though, if you are downgraded on a flight, you shouldn't be able to leave that plane (or even the moment of downgrading) without a sincere apology, an explanation if needed, and an assurance that they will be taken care of. Throw a few drinks at them as well.

I'm not advocating for changing any rules or regulations. If that's the only way you can see out of a simple guest service issue, we split paths.

Super80Fan wrote:

I'm usually against class action lawsuits, but I think it's time. These airlines are pushing and pushing and pushing and it's time for the consumer to fight back. If I book/pay for a seat assignment I better get it or else i'd expect a refund of my fare. Fair is fair.

In my experience, when I have not been able to take a seat that I have paid for because of operational reasons (e.g. Missed connections), the airlines have always been prompt to refund the full amount upon request. I'm okay with that, though I shouldn't have to ask and it shouldn't be such a widespread issue. I'm with you on that. Airlines shouldn't get to have their cake and eat it too.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

jetero wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Anyhow, whatever. i agree we don't know the facts. I'd prefer to talk about what allegedly happened rather than focus on whether we think this particular passenger is worthy or not. The David Dao threads got embarrassing with how people used their judgment of his character as a justification for having the crap beat out of him and getting dragged off a plane.

I'd love to talk about what allegedly happened to.

1 of maybe 3 stories (if you count rant as story) was she asked for a Comfort Plus upgrade, got it, then said no thanks, I'll stick with my aisle.

Do you think Delta should hold a seat until a passenger inspects and decides it's OK?

This is talking about what allegedly happened.

If you do think she was dragged from her seat, how would you propose to change? Force more self-regulation on the airlines? Create new Passenger Bill of Rights legislation?

It's simple. Apologize. Profusely, if needed. Reassure the customer that they will be taken care of financially for the inconvenience. It doesn't even matter if the airline was right or wrong, it matters that they've done everything they can to smooth it over. At a minimum, though, if you are downgraded on a flight, you shouldn't be able to leave that plane (or even the moment of downgrading) without a sincere apology, an explanation if needed, and an assurance that they will be taken care of. Throw a few drinks at them as well.

I'm not advocating for changing any rules or regulations. If that's the only way you can see out of a simple guest service issue, we split paths.

Hey PNT, would you please read above?

1 of maybe 3 stories (if you count rant as story) was she asked for a Comfort Plus upgrade, got it, then said no thanks, I'll stick with my aisle.

Do you think your approach is still warranted if that is what happened? Again, at least from one source, this is "what allegedly happened," which you say you're interested in discussing.

So PNT gets on the plane, goes to his seat, and notices it's a middle. Says no thanks, I'll keep my original seat. Goes to original seat, takes photo of person in originally assigned seat.

PNT gets all huffy talking to FA, takes photo of other passengers, and FA should say, "Hey Mr PNT, we realize this is such an inconvenience for you. Would you like to deplane now? And, while we're at it, here are some drink coupons? Otherwise, I'm going to have to ask you to take that middle seat. Oh wait, no, I can give you another in the same aisle as your original. In any case, I'm sorry that our published travel procedures didn't work out for you (and I'm saying this to you as you're being oh so uncooperative, refusing to take your seat, and taking photos of other passengers). But SORRY. PROFUSELY SORRY. THE MOST PROFUSIEST."

There's a reason these things are most often taken care of postflight, and they're typically taken care of quite liberally, if something was mishandled from the airline's perspective (and plenty of times even if not).

ltbewr wrote:

Ms. Coulter is a well know 'conservative' celebrity commentator, she probably figured her celeb status meant special privileges she felt she was entitled to including the choice of seat she may have reserved and not have to move. I am quite sure she played her 'celeb card', ('Don't you know who I am !") something I am quite sure other celebs, even of lower status level than her have done.

I wonder if she asked anyone "Don't you know who I am?" because boy howdy I've found that usually works wonders.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

ual763 wrote:

Once again though, why should it matter who she is? Regardless of her name, if she reserved that seat in advance, she should get that seat, unless an operational factor doesn't allow it. This does not appear to be an operational factor, rather a cultural one. But in order to quit getting flamed by all the Delta fanboys and political trolls, I will wait until more facts come out before saying otherwise.

Delta's CoC makes no assertions that any passenger are guaranteed their reserved seat assignment.

Delta will exercise reasonable efforts to carry passengers and their baggage according to Delta’s published schedules and the schedule reflected on the passenger’s ticket, but published schedules, flight times, aircraft type, seat assignments, and similar details reflected in
the ticket or Delta’s published schedules are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. Delta may substitute alternate carriers or aircraft, delay or cancel flights, change seat assignments, and alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket at any time. Schedules are subject to change without notice. Except as stated in this rule, Delta will have no liability for making connections, failing to operate any flight according to schedule, changing the schedule for any flight, changing seat assignments or aircraft types, or revising the routings by which Delta carries the passenger from the ticketed origin to destination.

She has a right to complain, but her attempt at shaming the other passenger in this matter is clearly distasteful. She should have just kept her rant targeted towards Delta.

Thanks for sharing. That cleared things up. So technically, and legally, Delta is in the clear. However, they still have a potential major PR issue on their hands. If equipment didn't change, which looking at the route and aircraft types normally on it, it didn't. There was no alternate carrier. The flight didn't look to be canceled according to flight aware. So if what she says is in fact true. Delta threw out her "preferred seat" under the guise of a "reserved seat" to accommodate someone who did not chose that seat as their preferred seat.

Furthermore, Ms. Coulter's new seat was not an aisle seat as she had selected. While Delta makes no statement differentiating an aisle vs. a middle, or a window seat in it's COC. Now, we all know people have strong preferences. I think I can speak to everyone that Middle seats suck, unless you're between two attractive people (being politically correct here ). Window seats are preferred by myself since I'm an aviation enthusiast. But a large number of people, based on historical data of which seats fill up first, prefer the aisle. Surveys show that taller people especially prefer the aisle as hey can stretch their legs into the aisle if need be.

So this is the issue Delta has. While technically legal, it surely is not ethical to move a paying customer when they specifically "reserved" as per Delta's website, from their preferred seat and give it to someone who did not select it as preferred - Especially when the person moved into it had no apparent need or requirement to be seated there.

ual763 wrote:

So this is the issue Delta has. While technically legal, it surely is not ethical to move a paying customer when they specifically "reserved" as per Delta's website, from their preferred seat and give it to someone who did not select it as preferred - Especially when the person moved into it had no apparent need or requirement to be seated there.

What are you talking about?!

If (and I say IF) she was on a Comfort Plus upgrade list, got the upgrade, and then wanted her original seat again, what do ethics have to do with it?

If she got upgraded to F, then it was a window, and she wanted to keep the aisle in Y, would you still say she was absolutely entitled to it and Delta would be being "unethical" if they said she had to keep the seat in F (assuming no other aisle seats in Y were available)?

I just don't get the people who have come to such righteous conclusions without what happened actually being confirmed. The only reason it can be this way is because the person is a political figure, so it turns on some ideological button in peoples' heads.

jetero wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

jetero wrote:

I'd love to talk about what allegedly happened to.

1 of maybe 3 stories (if you count rant as story) was she asked for a Comfort Plus upgrade, got it, then said no thanks, I'll stick with my aisle.

Do you think Delta should hold a seat until a passenger inspects and decides it's OK?

This is talking about what allegedly happened.

If you do think she was dragged from her seat, how would you propose to change? Force more self-regulation on the airlines? Create new Passenger Bill of Rights legislation?

It's simple. Apologize. Profusely, if needed. Reassure the customer that they will be taken care of financially for the inconvenience. It doesn't even matter if the airline was right or wrong, it matters that they've done everything they can to smooth it over. At a minimum, though, if you are downgraded on a flight, you shouldn't be able to leave that plane (or even the moment of downgrading) without a sincere apology, an explanation if needed, and an assurance that they will be taken care of. Throw a few drinks at them as well.

I'm not advocating for changing any rules or regulations. If that's the only way you can see out of a simple guest service issue, we split paths.

Hey PNT, would you please read above?

1 of maybe 3 stories (if you count rant as story) was she asked for a Comfort Plus upgrade, got it, then said no thanks, I'll stick with my aisle.

Do you think your approach is still warranted if that is what happened? Again, at least from one source, this is "what allegedly happened," which you say you're interested in discussing.

So PNT gets on the plane, goes to his seat, and notices it's a middle. Says no thanks, I'll keep my original seat. Goes to original seat, takes photo of person in originally assigned seat.

PNT gets all huffy talking to FA, takes photo of other passengers, and FA should say, "Hey Mr PNT, we realize this is such an inconvenience for you. Would you like to deplane now? And, while we're at it, here are some drink coupons? Otherwise, I'm going to have to ask you to take that middle seat. Oh wait, no, I can give you another in the same aisle as your original. In any case, I'm sorry that our published travel procedures didn't work out for you (and I'm saying this to you as you're being oh so uncooperative, refusing to take your seat, and taking photos of other passengers). But SORRY. PROFUSELY SORRY. THE MOST PROFUSIEST."

There's a reason these things are most often taken care of postflight, and they're typically taken care of quite liberally, if something was mishandled from the airline's perspective (and plenty of times even if not).

Yeah, but this just doesn't seem likely based on the photos and what Delta said on their page. She ended up in the same row as her "reserved seat". This means she originally picked an exit row aisle. Her new seat was still in the exit row, but not in the aisle. She would not have taken an upgrade, then request her old aisle. Then when told no, move to a middle or window exit row seat. Logic, would dictate, while probably mad, she would go back to the upgraded Economy+ seat. But who knows. It just doesn't seem likely based on Delta's response.

ual763 wrote:

Besides their profits tumbling, Delta is finally getting some negative PR thrown their way today.

Why did you phrase it saying "finally" some negative PR alongside of profits tumbling?

Seems like you were just waiting some something to happen.

jetero wrote:

ual763 wrote:

So this is the issue Delta has. While technically legal, it surely is not ethical to move a paying customer when they specifically "reserved" as per Delta's website, from their preferred seat and give it to someone who did not select it as preferred - Especially when the person moved into it had no apparent need or requirement to be seated there.

What are you talking about?!

If (and I say IF) she was on a Comfort Plus upgrade list, got the upgrade, and then wanted her original seat again, what do ethics have to do with it?

If she got upgraded to F, then it was a window, and she wanted to keep the aisle in Y, would you still say she was absolutely entitled to it and Delta would be being "unethical" if they said she had to keep the seat in F (assuming no other aisle seats in Y were available)?

I just don't get the people who have come to such righteous conclusions without what happened actually being confirmed. The only reason it can be this way is because the person is a political figure, so it turns on some ideological button in peoples' heads.

But she didn't sit in F. She stayed in the same row she had originally selected.

jetero wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

jetero wrote:

I'd love to talk about what allegedly happened to.

1 of maybe 3 stories (if you count rant as story) was she asked for a Comfort Plus upgrade, got it, then said no thanks, I'll stick with my aisle.

Do you think Delta should hold a seat until a passenger inspects and decides it's OK?

This is talking about what allegedly happened.

If you do think she was dragged from her seat, how would you propose to change? Force more self-regulation on the airlines? Create new Passenger Bill of Rights legislation?

It's simple. Apologize. Profusely, if needed. Reassure the customer that they will be taken care of financially for the inconvenience. It doesn't even matter if the airline was right or wrong, it matters that they've done everything they can to smooth it over. At a minimum, though, if you are downgraded on a flight, you shouldn't be able to leave that plane (or even the moment of downgrading) without a sincere apology, an explanation if needed, and an assurance that they will be taken care of. Throw a few drinks at them as well.

I'm not advocating for changing any rules or regulations. If that's the only way you can see out of a simple guest service issue, we split paths.

Hey PNT, would you please read above?

1 of maybe 3 stories (if you count rant as story) was she asked for a Comfort Plus upgrade, got it, then said no thanks, I'll stick with my aisle.

Do you think your approach is still warranted if that is what happened? Again, at least from one source, this is "what allegedly happened," which you say you're interested in discussing.

So PNT gets on the plane, goes to his seat, and notices it's a middle. Says no thanks, I'll keep my original seat. Goes to original seat, takes photo of person in originally assigned seat.

PNT gets all huffy talking to FA, takes photo of other passengers, and FA should say, "Hey Mr PNT, we realize this is such an inconvenience for you. Would you like to deplane now? And, while we're at it, here are some drink coupons? Otherwise, I'm going to have to ask you to take that middle seat. Oh wait, no, I can give you another in the same aisle as your original. In any case, I'm sorry that our published travel procedures didn't work out for you (and I'm saying this to you as you're being oh so uncooperative, refusing to take your seat, and taking photos of other passengers). But SORRY. PROFUSELY SORRY. THE MOST PROFUSIEST."

There's a reason these things are most often taken care of postflight, and they're typically taken care of quite liberally, if something was mishandled from the airline's perspective (and plenty of times even if not).

Yes, one of three stories. I would not be a bit surprised to find out that the airline did everything it could. I would also not be a bit surprised to find out they didn't. In her tweets, she was very specific about not getting an explanation, an apology, or compensation. If it turns out that's false, shame on her. If it's true, though, what I described might have saved us all a bunch of back and forth.

777Mech wrote:

ual763 wrote:

Besides their profits tumbling, Delta is finally getting some negative PR thrown their way today.

Why did you phrase it saying "finally" some negative PR alongside of profits tumbling?

Seems like you were just waiting some something to happen.

I'm a retired captain from one of their competitors. It was a jab, that's all. Nothing against Delta, I know a lot of great people there. Just a little competitive bias.

ual763 wrote:

But she didn't sit in F. She stayed in the same row she had originally selected.

F was used as a comparison scenario. The force is strong with this one.

But OK, you've got it all figured out. Delta is the most unethical airline and their profits are going to tumble even more!

(UAL763, though, I must say, you do deserve my sincere congrats for getting me to defend Delta.)

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Yes, one of three stories. I would not be a bit surprised to find out that the airline did everything it could. I would also not be a bit surprised to find out they didn't. In her tweets, she was very specific about not getting an explanation, an apology, or compensation. If it turns out that's false, shame on her. If it's true, though, what I described might have saved us all a bunch of back and forth.

Perfectly sensible and hard to tell from your original response when you question why anyone who defends an airline in cases like these is a glutton for punishment and likes to be dragged off an airplane.