WPvsMW wrote:

WN should buy WP, and renegotiate the Q leases for C-series. Feed + TPAC. Instant success, i.e., immediate acceptance by locals and WN's mainland pax.

Or perhaps WP should get C Series and begin AQ style mainland operations to second tier West Coast destinations like BUR, SNA, OAK.

77H

travaz wrote:

Does anyone think WN would set up inter island operation? I can see tag flights but a full blown inter island operation?

Aren't they looking at interlining now? Maybe they could interline with Island Air

Only a partial solution. WP's current service is HNL.LIH.OGG.KOA.

Southwest does not have to do redeye flights in order to have service to Hawaii since nonstops that depart from HNL in the morning will reach California in the afternoon or early evening, which would allow for connections to destinations further east from California.

At a Southwest rally last year during Gary Kelly's Q & A with the employees, HI was brought up! GK said HI was a when and not an if! He basically said that SWA is the largest airline into and within Cali; and the one destination most popular with Californians is Hawaii! So we'll have to serve it in time! He did mention our lack of Red Eyes, connecting HI with Mainland and Easr Coast service! The new One Res software will allow for Red Eyes when it's fully implemented, but they're making changes a little at a time, to not disrupt the Operation!

Xtremespeed01 wrote:

Yup it was a nonstop flight for a while until they returned to tagged flight via OAK, BUR, or SNA. They also had OGG nonstop flights to OAK, SNA, BUR, SMF.

In 2005, AQ flew OGG-SAN-RNO and in 2008 they flew from SAN to LIH and KOA, until they shut down in March of that year. Nobody ever flew those last two routes before, or after, until AAG started service in both markets in the last few years.

bb

77H wrote:

WPvsMW wrote:

WN should buy WP, and renegotiate the Q leases for C-series. Feed + TPAC. Instant success, i.e., immediate acceptance by locals and WN's mainland pax.

Or perhaps WP should get C Series and begin AQ style mainland operations to second tier West Coast destinations like BUR, SNA, OAK.

77H

Agreed. Some carrier will be the new AQ, and it would be great if it were WP, or WN+WP. The C-series will be a game changer for thin routes... a mini-787, P-to-P. The feeder cities to SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, and SLC could be poached quite easily. The nonstop magic says even US3 FF elites would be tempted, and if not an elite, why connect if you can fly nonstop for the same price or less? That's a selling proposition WN understands....

Scenario: I'm a UA elite in Medford OR. I want to go to Hawaii. If I were going to Asia, no problem with the SFO connection. But .... Hawaii, nonstop from MFR? I'm sold.

Change MFR to ONT or SNA and I'm right there with you!

Does the C Series have the range? 180min ETOPS? Serious questions as I'm not sure.

Regardless, the thought of WN acquiring a second type for those scenarios seems doubtful. It will be the MAX, initially out of OAK, gradually expanding to other west coast markets.

WN just did a current Ask Gary episode on ETOPS and Hawaii. He's response make it seem like Hawaii is still 2 or 3 yrs away!

Flyguy

Rdh3e wrote:

737tanker wrote:

The lack of red-eyes has nothing to do with the WN pilot contract.

What is the reason? I appreciate the correction, but let's take it a step further..

OK - here is what I found from a few different travel websites/blogs:

Firstly - a bit of yes and no on the systems side.

From "Richard West, Southwest's corporate historian (real job title!) chatted about this with travel blogger Brett Snyder in mid 2015":
- "On the technical side, there is nothing in our system that prevents us from operating a flight that spans two business days, and we frequently operate charter and maintenance flights based on operational or charter Customer’s needs. We have used software on the advanced scheduling side that was not originally built to accommodate redeye itineraries, primarily in the way connections are handled. There is an effort underway to have our scheduling system and all the downstream applications support selling redeye flying, but as of the moment we don’t have any immediate plans to start offering anything along these lines at the moment."

From "quora.com unsourced" reasons:
"- Redeyes most suitable for "long trips" 5+ hrs (WN doesn't have that many)
- Scheduling for maintenance overnight shift
- Overnight schedule for charter flights
- Union contract pay rates higher for overnight flights
- Redeyes are competitively lower-priced
- Historical reasons due to primarily "short-flight" market"

From "Bill Owen, senior business consultant in network planning at Southwest Airlines, from FLYERTALK in 2009":
"- First--we're don't think enough fliers want them to fill them up.
- Second reason: also touched on in this thread: by *not* having red-eye flights we can catch up, clean airplanes, and get them ready for the next day, greatly increasing an ontime start for the next day.
- third reason, one that so far nobody has guessed: Just as most Customers don't want red-eye flights, the vast majority of our Employees don't, either"

77H wrote:

WPvsMW wrote:

WN should buy WP, and renegotiate the Q leases for C-series. Feed + TPAC. Instant success, i.e., immediate acceptance by locals and WN's mainland pax.

Or perhaps WP should get C Series and begin AQ style mainland operations to second tier West Coast destinations like BUR, SNA, OAK.

77H

Agree. The C-series is the mini-Dreamliner. HI/CONUS second tier is the largest untapped thin route market in America (IMO) ... a market (esp. SoCal and NorCal) that's been waiting for the right a/c. Everyone who hasn't been to Hawaii has it on their bucket list, and those who have visited all want to visit again, esp. when they discover there is a Hawaii beyond Waikiki. Adolescent boys think of sex every 30 seconds. Post-adolescent men in California think of Hawaii every 30 seconds.

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wnflyguy wrote:

WN just did a current Ask Gary episode on ETOPS and Hawaii. He's response make it seem like Hawaii is still 2 or 3 yrs away!

Flyguy

1. Why do you share things directly from internal communication?

2. You really think he is going to announce it that way? Cmon...the answers are 100% work around.

barney captain wrote:

Does the C Series have the range? 180min ETOPS? Serious questions as I'm not sure.

Regardless, the thought of WN acquiring a second type for those scenarios seems doubtful. It will be the MAX, initially out of OAK, gradually expanding to other west coast markets.

The MAX initially? Hmm...

The range figures people are quoting are not the limiting factor. If there were no ETOPS rules and you operated the flight to Hawaii like a trans-con you could easily do LAS/PHX-Hawaii...even in an 800NG. any two engine airplane has to fly halfway, have a rapid-d...high-dive to 10K, and fly backwards or forwards to an alternateeith some reserve. Westbound 737NGs routinely land with over 2 hours of extra gas in the tanks....but they are just about maxed out to provide reliable service from the coastal cities.

Moreover, I doubt WN would use aux tanks on the MAX planes. WN strives for fleet commonality and the ability to deploy their fleet all across the system. Having a small amount of aircraft with aux tanks for Hawaii flying creates a subfleet that is hauling around aux tanks for no reason if deployed anywhere else.

WN is flying enough international and Caribbean flights that they could well need a subfleet of longer legged planes. And nothing stops that subfleet from flying shorter legs (although there would be a little less room for cargo.