So when exactly do you think we will see WN (Southwest) fly to Hawaii? And how far will the 737 MAX be able to go from the mainland (i.e, would they only be able to fly nonstop from the west coast with the 737 MAX? Or could they go further inland to PHX, LAS, DEN?)

Not for a while. Their ops software still doesn't support red eyes. It's queued for replacement, but I haven't heard a date. 2018 or 2019 I suspect. I doubt they would launch Hawaii without red eyes.

enilria wrote:

Not for a while. Their ops software still doesn't support red eyes. It's queued for replacement, but I haven't heard a date. 2018 or 2019 I suspect. I doubt they would launch Hawaii without red eyes.

I thought the new reservation system went live earlier this year?

There is a lot of competition to HI right now. WN is going to have to do it from Califirnia (Don't think the MAX's will make if from PHX or LAS). They should concentrate on the Mexico and Central America and Caribbean markets.

How far inland will the A32l LR be able to fly from Hawaii? LAS! KPHX? KDEN???

They're still not an ETOPS certified airline, correct?

The Max should be able to make it from the West coast. Supposedly the Max has3500and3800 nmi range. I don't know about the moderate elevation and sometimes extreme heat, but LAS and PHX are, distance wise, well within range.

If the range spec's are correct, maybe DAL is even within range. Perhaps some with more expertise could confirm that.

Would WN even consider getting a specially-configured 757 or 767 for this route, or do they want to stay with an all 737 fleet?

Much like what WN could have had at JFK (NYC) pre-B6...WN is going to be very late to the Hawaii party.

ADrum23 wrote:

Would WN even consider getting a specially-configured 757 or 767 for this route, or do they want to stay with an all 737 fleet?

I don't see them doing that for HI.

Denver also appears to be within range.

They've been talking about flights to Hawaii since the early 2000's. Honestly a 5 hour + flight on WN to Hawaii seems pretty damn miserable though so I wouldn't even be interested if there was such a service.

737's have no problem flying to Hawaii from the west coast. Aloha did it from several west coast cities and even LAS before they went bankrupt with no issues. If the NG 737s can do it the MAX for sure will be able to.

ADrum23 wrote:

Would WN even consider getting a specially-configured 757 or 767 for this route, or do they want to stay with an all 737 fleet?

I highly doubt they'll go for anything that isn't a 737. When they acquired Air Tran they briefly considered the option of keeping the ex Air Tran 717s but ultimately decided to sell them to DL because they wanted to maintain fleet commonality, even though the 717 would actually have worked really well for some of their network IMO. Keeping the fleet simple is a big part of WN's business model.

When BNA, CLE, CMH, IND, and STL see London service. This thread comes up as often as those threads (alone with WN to Canada).

KentB27 wrote:

They've been talking about flights to Hawaii since the early 2000's. Honestly a 5 hour + flight on WN to Hawaii seems pretty damn miserable though so I wouldn't even be interested if there was such a service.

737's have no problem flying to Hawaii from the west coast. Aloha did it from several west coast cities and even LAS before they went bankrupt with no issues. If the NG 737s can do it the MAX for sure will be able to.

Aloha operated LAS as a tag, I believe from SNA, but it could have been OAK. They also served RNO and PHX as tags as well.

77H

77H wrote:

Aloha operated LAS as a tag, I believe from SNA, but it could have been OAK. They also served RNO and PHX as tags as well.

77H

In 2004, here were the tags:

SNA-PHX
SNA-RNO
BUR-LAS
BUR-SMF
OAK-LAS

KentB27 wrote:

They've been talking about flights to Hawaii since the early 2000's. Honestly a 5 hour + flight on WN to Hawaii seems pretty damn miserable though so I wouldn't even be interested if there was such a service.

737's have no problem flying to Hawaii from the west coast. Aloha did it from several west coast cities and even LAS before they went bankrupt with no issues. If the NG 737s can do it the MAX for sure will be able to.

737s do sometimes have problems to/from the West Coast. Look at AS flights SEA-HI that sometimes get routed via PDX or OAK. UA has had to empty seats on occasion (not the Dao way, thankfully). And that's with carriers who aren't packing 175 people and 'bags fly free' into a 738.

MAX range should end problems from all plausible CA/OR/WA airports in Southwest's likely configs.

There are many routes in the WN system that are a bit more than 5hours, and people survive. Hawaii wouldn't be any different. From what I understand the 737MAX Isn't ETOPS certified yet. Perhaps WN will play a role in making that happen?

Last Wednesday I was on a flight from SAN to SMF. At the gate was the thank you wagon with WN agents handing out snacks and gifts. As we were entering the plane Hawaiian music was playing. The WN agent said that last year when the CEO was asked about Hawaii the answer was not so sure; this year when asked the answer was it is a priority.[i][/I].

77H wrote:

KentB27 wrote:

They've been talking about flights to Hawaii since the early 2000's. Honestly a 5 hour + flight on WN to Hawaii seems pretty damn miserable though so I wouldn't even be interested if there was such a service.

737's have no problem flying to Hawaii from the west coast. Aloha did it from several west coast cities and even LAS before they went bankrupt with no issues. If the NG 737s can do it the MAX for sure will be able to.

Aloha operated LAS as a tag, I believe from SNA, but it could have been OAK. They also served RNO and PHX as tags as well.

77H

Forgive me, but can you explain what tags mean in the sense you are referring to them here?

Tags, for example:
When AQ started SMF, the routings were SMF-xxx-OGG, with xxx being either BUR or SNA. AQ did sell local traffic on the SMF-BUR/SNA tags as well as through to OGG. Some of the other markets were also tagged, particularly with RNO being high altitude that a stop was necessary.
(Eventually the SMF market grew sufficiently to offer SMF-OGG non-stop, and grew even further to warrant AQ leasing a 738-W for the run, offering more seats than the usual 73G on the Hawaii-Mainland runs.)

I see. Like MDW was a tag on ATA's HNL-ONT and HNL-OAK flights about 10 years ago.

I'm from the east coast (MHT) would they do BWI-tag-HNL or MDW-tag-HNL all on one plane?

I'm from the east coast (MHT) would they do BWI-tag-HNL or MDW-tag-HNL all on one plane?

For a brief time, AQ did have a direct flight from LAS to HNL.

DesertAir wrote:

As we were entering the plane Hawaiian music was playing.

Best post ever! Now I'm certain it will happen!

enilria wrote:

Not for a while. Their ops software still doesn't support red eyes. It's queued for replacement, but I haven't heard a date. 2018 or 2019 I suspect. I doubt they would launch Hawaii without red eyes.

Can we please stop with the whole "WN software (etc.) can't support red-eyes..." already? There have been plenty of times where WN indeed operated a flight that would be considered a red-eye due to operational difficulties. The "software" already recognizes arrival times in the next day. This concept has been perpetuated on this site ad infinitum and it's a total fallacy. How do you think that WN was able to operate the former AirTran red-eye flights to meet with the daytime WN flights. BOTH systems had to be able to recognize what was being booked.

KentB27 wrote:

They've been talking about flights to Hawaii since the early 2000's. Honestly a 5 hour + flight on WN to Hawaii seems pretty damn miserable though so I wouldn't even be interested if there was such a service.

737's have no problem flying to Hawaii from the west coast. Aloha did it from several west coast cities and even LAS before they went bankrupt with no issues. If the NG 737s can do it the MAX for sure will be able to.

LAX to BWI is scheduled for 5:05 Eastbound and 5:35 Westbound I dont see a problem with a 5 hour flight on WN. There are quite a few in thier system now.

DesertAir, about 3 years ago I was at SMF. And wouldn't you know, I was talking to a couple of pilots before boarding. I asked when will WN be going to Hawaii. They both blurted out that the -800 and even the -700 have no problem making it and they both agreed it wouldn't be long. That was 3 years ago. One guy mentioned something about non reserved seating and families wanting to be together might be a problem for their systems. So I will believe it when I see it.

Xtremespeed01 wrote:

For a brief time, AQ did have a direct flight from LAS to HNL.

They most certainly did, because I took that flight in 2005.

travaz wrote:

KentB27 wrote:

They've been talking about flights to Hawaii since the early 2000's. Honestly a 5 hour + flight on WN to Hawaii seems pretty damn miserable though so I wouldn't even be interested if there was such a service.

737's have no problem flying to Hawaii from the west coast. Aloha did it from several west coast cities and even LAS before they went bankrupt with no issues. If the NG 737s can do it the MAX for sure will be able to.

LAX to BWI is scheduled for 5:05 Eastbound and 5:35 Westbound I dont see a problem with a 5 hour flight on WN. There are quite a few in thier system now.

I'm just saying that for more than 5 hours on a plane I would rather fly with an airline that offers a better soft product than WN. A bag of peanuts and a coke isn't going to work for me and I'm willing to pay more to get more.

WN has a bunch of ETOPs 737-800s. Everyone said those would enable HNL, then it was wait for the Max, and now it's wait for the Max7. Meanwhile, those -800 ETOPs are doing everything except ETOPs flights. Is there a plan for them or will the Max make them obsolete for ETOPs service?

'I'm just saying that for more than 5 hours on a plane I would rather fly with an airline that offers a better soft product than WN. A bag of peanuts and a coke isn't going to work for me and I'm willing to pay more to get more."

Fair enough. I would agree with you in my own preferences.

I’ve heard very soon.
UA already sends there 738, and Alaska’s as well. I imagine WN not doing the same with there 738’s. I’d imagine they’re already in the works to get some of those plane ETOPS certified.

I thought I had saw something about the 800s having the provisions for ovens in the galleys.

KentB27 wrote:

Xtremespeed01 wrote:

For a brief time, AQ did have a direct flight from LAS to HNL.

They most certainly did, because I took that flight in 2005.

Thank you for the insight. Learn something new everyday.

77H

SeaDoo wrote:

Denver also appears to be within range.

In range of what? The 757 barely makes it as is for UA.

Judge1310 wrote:

Can we please stop with the whole "WN software (etc.) can't support red-eyes..." already?

Isn't it actually an issue with the pilot contract?

KentB27 wrote:

travaz wrote:

KentB27 wrote:

They've been talking about flights to Hawaii since the early 2000's. Honestly a 5 hour + flight on WN to Hawaii seems pretty damn miserable though so I wouldn't even be interested if there was such a service.

737's have no problem flying to Hawaii from the west coast. Aloha did it from several west coast cities and even LAS before they went bankrupt with no issues. If the NG 737s can do it the MAX for sure will be able to.

LAX to BWI is scheduled for 5:05 Eastbound and 5:35 Westbound I dont see a problem with a 5 hour flight on WN. There are quite a few in thier system now.

I'm just saying that for more than 5 hours on a plane I would rather fly with an airline that offers a better soft product than WN. A bag of peanuts and a coke isn't going to work for me and I'm willing to pay more to get more.

You do realize that you get more than a "bag of peanuts and a coke" on a 5 hour flight with WN? I realize it's not a 5 course meal or anything close... but there are more than enough snacks that are free and you are welcome to bring whatever food you want. Again, not the overpriced buy on board or free hot meals but, come on.

Rdh3e wrote:

SeaDoo wrote:

Denver also appears to be within range.

In range of what? The 757 barely makes it as is for UA.

Judge1310 wrote:

Can we please stop with the whole "WN software (etc.) can't support red-eyes..." already?

Isn't it actually an issue with the pilot contract?

The lack of red-eyes has nothing to do with the WN pilot contract. The current contract has provisions for red-eyes while the previous contract had a Side Letter written into it that allowed red-eyes from Hawaii. Sotheby's WN pilots could contractually fly red-eyes ever since the -800s arrived on the property.

rph99 wrote:

How far inland will the A32l LR be able to fly from Hawaii? LAS! KPHX? KDEN???

And this question belongs in this thread why?

KentB27 wrote:

Xtremespeed01 wrote:

For a brief time, AQ did have a direct flight from LAS to HNL.

They most certainly did, because I took that flight in 2005.

Or was it nonstop?

All the 737 MAX are capable of flying greater than 3000 nautical miles. This should mean that with the 737 MAX, Southwest Airlines should commence services to Hawaii as far from Las Vegas at the best westward margin. Combined with satisfactory customer service, Southwest should perform strong in the Hawaii market, even to snatch away United's and/or Alaska's share on Hawaii market.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Wouldn't the 737-10 Max be ideal for WN to fly to Hawaii when they become available?

The MAX 10 should be ideal, especially when it can fly further than the 737-800, their first aircraft with ETOPS ratings. Their 737-800 opened their international market, so the 737 MAX 10 should open their Hawaii market.

precure787 wrote:

All the 737 MAX are capable of flying greater than 3000 nautical miles. This should mean that with the 737 MAX, Southwest Airlines should commence services to Hawaii as far from Las Vegas at the best westward margin. Combined with satisfactory customer service, Southwest should perform strong in the Hawaii market, even to snatch away United's and/or Alaska's share on Hawaii market.

I imagine WN's entry into the Hawaii market would impact AS and HA far more than UA or AA and DL for that matter. WN has major a major operation at almost every West Coast airport AS and HA fly to with perhaps the exception of PDX and SEA. The US3 all operate flights into Hawaii well out of range of the MAX aircraft WN will be using.

77H

KentB27 wrote:

Honestly a 5 hour + flight on WN to Hawaii seems pretty damn miserable though so I wouldn't even be interested if there was such a service.

.

Honestly I'd rather fly on WN with somewhat decent seat pitch and a generally customer-friendly crew than the tight-pitch US3 and surly flight attendants.

N383SW wrote:

KentB27 wrote:

travaz wrote:

LAX to BWI is scheduled for 5:05 Eastbound and 5:35 Westbound I dont see a problem with a 5 hour flight on WN. There are quite a few in thier system now.

I'm just saying that for more than 5 hours on a plane I would rather fly with an airline that offers a better soft product than WN. A bag of peanuts and a coke isn't going to work for me and I'm willing to pay more to get more.

You do realize that you get more than a "bag of peanuts and a coke" on a 5 hour flight with WN? I realize it's not a 5 course meal or anything close... but there are more than enough snacks that are free and you are welcome to bring whatever food you want. Again, not the overpriced buy on board or free hot meals but, come on.

WN servers so much more than just peanuts on a 5hr flight. They bring out a snack box with cheese and crackers or wheat thins,cookies,chips, pretzels and peanuts And non alcoholic drinks are available whenever you want no limits. WN crews are out in the cabin frequently offering seconds thirds fourths etc etc. Then do a ice water and coffee service one hour before landing on LH flights.

Most airports have a variety of cheaper better food options. I mean really how many people book a ticket based on the meal they get on the flight.
99% of the time price and price only.

It's only a matter of when WN decides to go to Hawaii.
Not having the ability to RED EYE flying isn't hold them back from starting Hawaii.
WN got the 737-800 ETOPS aircraft but packed it with 175 seats and had a lower graded thrust engine to keep engine cost down inline with the 737-700. Basically making it to heavy for Hawaii Etops or a wet MDW runway operations.
Those issues in regards to the engine have been worked out by a engine thrust upgrade. But the ETOPS weight and balance requirements Still would require a passenger or luggage restrictions going westbound only. So WN still working the numbers to see if using the ETOPS NG800 is still worth the hassle. I'm sure WN watching Norwegian with there 737-800MAX ETOPS flying to see if all goes well before pulling the trigger on the upgrade to MAX ETOPS order deliverys in 2018.

The 150 seat 700MAX ETOPS will give WN way more opportunities than just Hawaii. Will also give BWI the range of Western Europe. But non RED EYES might cause a issue with that if there solely concerned with connections out of BWI. But that's a whole different topic.

Hawaii coming sooner than later finally.
My guess is 2019 with the 7377MAX but we all know how well I guess at stuff!

Flyguy

737tanker wrote:

The lack of red-eyes has nothing to do with the WN pilot contract.

What is the reason? I appreciate the correction, but let's take it a step further..

ADrum23 wrote:

Would WN even consider getting a specially-configured 757 or 767 for this route, or do they want to stay with an all 737 fleet?

It would greatly increase operating costs to have an additional type of aircraft. Everyone else, almost is flying to Hawaii. It is primarily a leisure market. So, I suspect they either do it with 737's or not at all.

OzarkD9S wrote:

Much like what WN could have had at JFK (NYC) pre-B6...WN is going to be very late to the Hawaii party.

Yep, agreed - I'll believe it when I see it. This is an example of yet another "party" Southwest is late to.