Airliners.net

Considering these potential US cities (indeed they may all happen over the next few years) what is the aircraft that would be used?
I note that BA has switched a couple of 789 orders to 788's (which goes against the general glow) so I assume this aircraft is the front runner.
The 767's are being phased out I believe.Is there a potential role for the A321NEO LR which the parent co has ordered?

Midwestindy wrote:

And, I admit I clearly don't know everything about BNA. But, with all do respect to the BNA people out there, every time a topic like this is brought up, little is said about 1)The business travel in BNA leans to Asia, so what are the SPECIFIC corporations in Nashville that will utilize these flights, BA isn't going to fly a plane if there will be no corporations to pay full price to fill the front cabin on a regular basis.(STL/IND/CLE threads all discuss specific corporations). 2)Actual Nashville tourism statistics compared to other cities. 3)Stats in general

Most comments go along the lines of saying "Nashville's doing great right now, so therefore we need a TATL flight ASAP" which doesn't provide much insight into actual demand for passenger traffic. Again, the same can be said for a lot of comments about STL/CLE/IND/CVG/PIT/e.t.c

100% correct. You left out, what higher education institutions are based in Nashville? That is a big traffic draw in places like RDU and AUS.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

This has sadly degraded into the usual middle cities fighting each other why they deserve non-stop service to Europe. I will make this easy and resolve this for ALL of you. None of your cities have enough premium demand for legacy carriers so no BA, no AA, no DL. You will probably all get service in the next 5 years but it will be by a LCC and LESS then daily. None of the cities mentioned are getting a premium LHR slot. The less then daily will be to KEF, LGW, DUB, FRA or CDG. Thank You and Good night

I'd have to agree. Look at FLL, a much bigger market in all aspects and it had to wait for DY.

RobertS975 wrote:

Getting a LCC flight to wherever is not really what Nashville residents need, nor is it likely to bring financial success to the carrier. Far better solution would be a route to a useful connection hub like a DL flight to AMS. That would open essentially all of Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Asia and make much of the world just a single connection away.

You have that today via JFK, EWR, ATL, BOS, ORD, LAX, etc.

Some people just don't seem to understand that the size of the economy and population is just not as important as the composition of said economy and population. The more diverse and global your economy and population are, the better the chances for international routes and Nashville just doesn't strike me as a very diverse city with industries competing in a global economy. If UT was located near Nashville, it combined with Vanderbilt might give it a better chance, but it isn't.

Cubsrule wrote:

As between these three cities, the MSA numbers make things look worse for BNA and IND than they probably should. Columbus, Indiana, which almost certainly makes an outsized contribution to IND's air travel demand because of Cummins, Dorel and Toyota Material Handling, is not in the Indianapolis MSA. We can make a similar point for Nashville about Clarksville and Bowling Green (Fort Campbell, Hankook). There's not really anything similar lurking just outside of the Saint Louis MSA..

STL draws from both Illinois and Missouri State Capitals. Also, I think most people in Columbia, MO fly out of STL. Those are not in their MSA. I think every city can add places to their numbers that are just outside their MSA.

Jshank83 wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

As between these three cities, the MSA numbers make things look worse for BNA and IND than they probably should. Columbus, Indiana, which almost certainly makes an outsized contribution to IND's air travel demand because of Cummins, Dorel and Toyota Material Handling, is not in the Indianapolis MSA. We can make a similar point for Nashville about Clarksville and Bowling Green (Fort Campbell, Hankook). There's not really anything similar lurking just outside of the Saint Louis MSA..

STL draws from both Illinois and Missouri State Capitals. Also, I think most people in Columbia, MO fly out of STL. Those are not in their MSA. I think every city can add places to their numbers that are just outside their MSA.

This is apples and oranges. COU/JEF are equidistant to MCI and STL, and COU has legacy service. That's different from Columbus, Clarksville and Bowling Green which have no service and are much closer to IND/BNA than they are to any other airport with commercial service.

Jshank83 wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

As between these three cities, the MSA numbers make things look worse for BNA and IND than they probably should. Columbus, Indiana, which almost certainly makes an outsized contribution to IND's air travel demand because of Cummins, Dorel and Toyota Material Handling, is not in the Indianapolis MSA. We can make a similar point for Nashville about Clarksville and Bowling Green (Fort Campbell, Hankook). There's not really anything similar lurking just outside of the Saint Louis MSA..

STL draws from both Illinois and Missouri State Capitals. Also, I think most people in Columbia, MO fly out of STL. Those are not in their MSA. I think every city can add places to their numbers that are just outside their MSA.

IND has IU/Purdue/Columbus,IN to draw from, and a large percentage of SDF traffic goes to IND as well, plus an extra 30% of Bloomington, IL traffic. So I think there is some overlap in the STL/IND/BNA catchment areas.

Midwestindy wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

As between these three cities, the MSA numbers make things look worse for BNA and IND than they probably should. Columbus, Indiana, which almost certainly makes an outsized contribution to IND's air travel demand because of Cummins, Dorel and Toyota Material Handling, is not in the Indianapolis MSA. We can make a similar point for Nashville about Clarksville and Bowling Green (Fort Campbell, Hankook). There's not really anything similar lurking just outside of the Saint Louis MSA..

STL draws from both Illinois and Missouri State Capitals. Also, I think most people in Columbia, MO fly out of STL. Those are not in their MSA. I think every city can add places to their numbers that are just outside their MSA.

IND has IU/Purdue/Columbus,IN to draw from, and a large percentage of SDF traffic goes to IND as well, plus an extra 30% of Bloomington, IL traffic. So I think there is some overlap in the STL/IND/BNA catchment areas.

I don't know what to do with places like LAF, which has reasonable access to CHI, and SDF, which is more or less equidistant from CVG, when talking about IND potential. Do you have some data that might help us with those questions? And did you mean BMI? I suspect not given the geography.

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

STL draws from both Illinois and Missouri State Capitals. Also, I think most people in Columbia, MO fly out of STL. Those are not in their MSA. I think every city can add places to their numbers that are just outside their MSA.

IND has IU/Purdue/Columbus,IN to draw from, and a large percentage of SDF traffic goes to IND as well, plus an extra 30% of Bloomington, IL traffic. So I think there is some overlap in the STL/IND/BNA catchment areas.

I don't know what to do with places like LAF, which has reasonable access to CHI, and SDF, which is more or less equidistant from CVG, when talking about IND potential. Do you have some data that might help us with those questions? And did you mean BMI? I suspect not given the geography.

This thread has really descended into the ridiculous. Now posters are claiming towns and villages for their hometown to justify TATL service. Do you really believe that any serious airline (be that BA, DY, DL, FI, WOW or whatever) would care if Tinyville or Buttholetown "belongs" to, or is closer to, or has "reasonable access" to your favourite airport when taking a decision to serve your hometown airport? ( Be that BNA, IND, CMH, or whatever...)

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

STL draws from both Illinois and Missouri State Capitals. Also, I think most people in Columbia, MO fly out of STL. Those are not in their MSA. I think every city can add places to their numbers that are just outside their MSA.

IND has IU/Purdue/Columbus,IN to draw from, and a large percentage of SDF traffic goes to IND as well, plus an extra 30% of Bloomington, IL traffic. So I think there is some overlap in the STL/IND/BNA catchment areas.

I don't know what to do with places like LAF, which has reasonable access to CHI, and SDF, which is more or less equidistant from CVG, when talking about IND potential. Do you have some data that might help us with those questions? And did you mean BMI? I suspect not given the geography.

Sorry meant, Champaign(CMI)... but considering how close the two are I suspect BMI loses some traffic to IND as well.

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/ ... hreat.html

"But here's the reality: the top airport of choice for people who bought plane tickets last year in the Champaign-Urbana-Danville region was Indianapolis."

"Thirty-five percent, or 170,748, headed to Indianapolis, where they paid an average fare of $229. "Sixteen percent, or 77,470 people, drove to Chicago's O'Hare, where the average fare for area travelers was $263."

"Most of our people drive to Indy because there's lower average fares. Indy may not have as many destinations as Chicago. When people are going on a really long trip, they go to Chicago."

If you travel through IND several times a month you will see Indiana, Kentucky, Illinois, and sometimes Ohio Lisence plates scattered about...

MalevTU134 wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

IND has IU/Purdue/Columbus,IN to draw from, and a large percentage of SDF traffic goes to IND as well, plus an extra 30% of Bloomington, IL traffic. So I think there is some overlap in the STL/IND/BNA catchment areas.

I don't know what to do with places like LAF, which has reasonable access to CHI, and SDF, which is more or less equidistant from CVG, when talking about IND potential. Do you have some data that might help us with those questions? And did you mean BMI? I suspect not given the geography.

This thread has really descended into the ridiculous. Now posters are claiming towns and villages for their hometown to justify TATL service. Do you really believe that any serious airline (be that BA, DY, DL, FI, WOW or whatever) would care if Tinyville or Buttholetown "belongs" to, or is closer to, or has "reasonable access" to your favourite airport when taking a decision to serve your hometown airport? ( Be that BNA, IND, CMH, or whatever...)

You're missing the point. We use MSAs as a proxy for "city and suburbs," but in some of these markets they are an imperfect proxy for one reason or another.

MalevTU134 wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

IND has IU/Purdue/Columbus,IN to draw from, and a large percentage of SDF traffic goes to IND as well, plus an extra 30% of Bloomington, IL traffic. So I think there is some overlap in the STL/IND/BNA catchment areas.

I don't know what to do with places like LAF, which has reasonable access to CHI, and SDF, which is more or less equidistant from CVG, when talking about IND potential. Do you have some data that might help us with those questions? And did you mean BMI? I suspect not given the geography.

This thread has really descended into the ridiculous. Now posters are claiming towns and villages for their hometown to justify TATL service. Do you really believe that any serious airline (be that BA, DY, DL, FI, WOW or whatever) would care if Tinyville or Buttholetown "belongs" to, or is closer to, or has "reasonable access" to your favourite airport when taking a decision to serve your hometown airport? ( Be that BNA, IND, CMH, or whatever...)

B R E A T H, take a deep breath, no reason you should get this angry over a thread....

If something angers you that much than just don't reply....

MalevTU134 wrote:

This thread has really descended into the ridiculous. Now posters are claiming towns and villages for their hometown to justify TATL service. Do you really believe that any serious airline (be that BA, DY, DL, FI, WOW or whatever) would care if Tinyville or Buttholetown "belongs" to, or is closer to, or has "reasonable access" to your favourite airport when taking a decision to serve your hometown airport? ( Be that BNA, IND, CMH, or whatever...)

Never been to Buttholeville but I've heard great things. Definitely a leisure travel destination though

Midwestindy wrote:

MalevTU134 wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

I don't know what to do with places like LAF, which has reasonable access to CHI, and SDF, which is more or less equidistant from CVG, when talking about IND potential. Do you have some data that might help us with those questions? And did you mean BMI? I suspect not given the geography.

This thread has really descended into the ridiculous. Now posters are claiming towns and villages for their hometown to justify TATL service. Do you really believe that any serious airline (be that BA, DY, DL, FI, WOW or whatever) would care if Tinyville or Buttholetown "belongs" to, or is closer to, or has "reasonable access" to your favourite airport when taking a decision to serve your hometown airport? ( Be that BNA, IND, CMH, or whatever...)

B R E A T H, take a deep breath, no reason you should get this angry over a thread....

If something angers you that much than just don't reply....

It doesn't anger me, but I would be genuinely interested in a reasonably intelligent discussion here, and not a pi**ing contest and totally irrelevant arguments about whether a town or a suburb belongs or not to a MSA. I can guarantee you that route planners don't care even a tiny bit about that. It's far outside the equation. People who talk about J class potential, cargo potential and yields are onto something. Those talking about tourism potential are marginally on track. Those talking about country music and car plates from other states at the airport are clueless.

jnev3289 wrote:

MalevTU134 wrote:

This thread has really descended into the ridiculous. Now posters are claiming towns and villages for their hometown to justify TATL service. Do you really believe that any serious airline (be that BA, DY, DL, FI, WOW or whatever) would care if Tinyville or Buttholetown "belongs" to, or is closer to, or has "reasonable access" to your favourite airport when taking a decision to serve your hometown airport? ( Be that BNA, IND, CMH, or whatever...)

Never been to Buttholeville but I've heard great things. Definitely a leisure travel destination though

Thanks for a great chuckle!!!

MalevTU134 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

MalevTU134 wrote:

This thread has really descended into the ridiculous. Now posters are claiming towns and villages for their hometown to justify TATL service. Do you really believe that any serious airline (be that BA, DY, DL, FI, WOW or whatever) would care if Tinyville or Buttholetown "belongs" to, or is closer to, or has "reasonable access" to your favourite airport when taking a decision to serve your hometown airport? ( Be that BNA, IND, CMH, or whatever...)

B R E A T H, take a deep breath, no reason you should get this angry over a thread....

If something angers you that much than just don't reply....

It doesn't anger me, but I would be genuinely interested in a reasonably intelligent discussion here, and not a pi**ing contest and totally irrelevant arguments about whether a town or a suburb belongs or not to a MSA. I can guarantee you that route planners don't care even a tiny bit about that. It's far outside the equation. People who talk about J class potential, cargo potential and yields are onto something. Those talking about tourism potential are marginally on track. Those talking about country music and car plates from other states at the airport are clueless.

If there are significant drivers of demand - universities, Fortune 500s, etc. - who are outside of a MSA but yet use the airport in question exclusively, I absolutely think those belong in the conversation. Route planners don't care which side of the "MSA line" passenger X or piece of cargo Y comes from.

seahawk wrote:

I would not rule out LH. With the VW factory in Chattanooga there could be some basic biz demand. Same with the Mercedes factory in Tuscaloosa

Not sure about that. Chattanooga is closer to the city of Atlanta, but since the airport is on the far side of the the city, I'm not sure it evens out counting Atlanta traffic. Access to BNA from points south involve side roadways with traffic lights if coming in on I-24. It would be a nice surprise though.

Cubsrule wrote:

MalevTU134 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

B R E A T H, take a deep breath, no reason you should get this angry over a thread....

If something angers you that much than just don't reply....

It doesn't anger me, but I would be genuinely interested in a reasonably intelligent discussion here, and not a pi**ing contest and totally irrelevant arguments about whether a town or a suburb belongs or not to a MSA. I can guarantee you that route planners don't care even a tiny bit about that. It's far outside the equation. People who talk about J class potential, cargo potential and yields are onto something. Those talking about tourism potential are marginally on track. Those talking about country music and car plates from other states at the airport are clueless.

If there are significant drivers of demand - universities, Fortune 500s, etc. - who are outside of a MSA but yet use the airport in question exclusively, I absolutely think those belong in the conversation. Route planners don't care which side of the "MSA line" passenger X or piece of cargo Y comes from.

My point exactly. And for this, they use passenger stats, not distances or accessibility or music trends.

I'm with Malev. It's the same handful of posters on these threads that go on and on and on about city comparisons. Tearing one city down so that they can build their favorite city up. Everywhere on these threads. Even in discussions which are very innocuous.

What I find really bizarre about A.net is that a 200 post speculative thread about when will my favorite airport get a flight to XYZ remains in Civil Aviation, even though there isn't an iota of fact in it. Yet a very factual based posting about partnership and frequent flier program changes gets immediately moved to Travel Polls and Preferences.

MalevTU134 wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

MalevTU134 wrote:

It doesn't anger me, but I would be genuinely interested in a reasonably intelligent discussion here, and not a pi**ing contest and totally irrelevant arguments about whether a town or a suburb belongs or not to a MSA. I can guarantee you that route planners don't care even a tiny bit about that. It's far outside the equation. People who talk about J class potential, cargo potential and yields are onto something. Those talking about tourism potential are marginally on track. Those talking about country music and car plates from other states at the airport are clueless.

If there are significant drivers of demand - universities, Fortune 500s, etc. - who are outside of a MSA but yet use the airport in question exclusively, I absolutely think those belong in the conversation. Route planners don't care which side of the "MSA line" passenger X or piece of cargo Y comes from.

My point exactly. And for this, they use passenger stats, not distances or accessibility or music trends.

I do think distances matter some, though, because changes to service levels change bleed. I suspect one reason that AUS TATL is doing so well is that it is drawing passengers from SAT.

A friend of mine who works at BNA is saying MNAA will be making a major announcement soon. Mid-summer seems an odd time to announce new service. Their last few emails are updates on the BNA Vision. I suspect if there's anything, it may be that.

MalevTU134 wrote:

It doesn't anger me, but I would be genuinely interested in a reasonably intelligent discussion here, and not a pi**ing contest and totally irrelevant arguments about whether a town or a suburb belongs or not to a MSA. I can guarantee you that route planners don't care even a tiny bit about that. It's far outside the equation. People who talk about J class potential, cargo potential and yields are onto something. Those talking about tourism potential are marginally on track. Those talking about country music and car plates from other states at the airport are clueless.

Catchment area factors into air service, if you don't think so ask MKE and SAT....

I assume you aren't from the middle of the country so I will cut you some slack, because the places you are calling "Tinyville or Buttholetown" are places that contain large universities and f500 companies...Anyway, that wasn't even an argument, it was just an observation made about the catchment areas of the different cities...

If you were listening, J class potential, cargo potential, incentives, and possible yields were discussed several times in this thread alone...

So, why don't you share your opinion on the matter...

Midwestindy wrote:

MalevTU134 wrote:

It doesn't anger me, but I would be genuinely interested in a reasonably intelligent discussion here, and not a pi**ing contest and totally irrelevant arguments about whether a town or a suburb belongs or not to a MSA. I can guarantee you that route planners don't care even a tiny bit about that. It's far outside the equation. People who talk about J class potential, cargo potential and yields are onto something. Those talking about tourism potential are marginally on track. Those talking about country music and car plates from other states at the airport are clueless.

Catchment area factors into air service, if you don't think so ask MKE and SAT....

I assume you aren't from the middle of the country so I will cut you some slack, because the places you are calling "Tinyville or Buttholetown" are places that contain large universities and f500 companies...Anyway, that wasn't even an argument, it was just an observation made about the catchment areas of the different cities...

If you were listening, J class potential, cargo potential, incentives, and possible yields were discussed several times in this thread alone...

So, why don't you share your opinion on the matter...

Then apply it sanely. Don't tell me Akron, which is only 30 miles from Cleveland, can't be part of Cleveland's catchment area because Indy bleeds people going to Chicago. Those cities are separated by well over 100 miles. You are one of the worst arbiters of this info so you can pump up Indy on all these threads. It drags these threads into an endless p*ss*ng match.

Cubsrule wrote:

MalevTU134 wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

If there are significant drivers of demand - universities, Fortune 500s, etc. - who are outside of a MSA but yet use the airport in question exclusively, I absolutely think those belong in the conversation. Route planners don't care which side of the "MSA line" passenger X or piece of cargo Y comes from.

My point exactly. And for this, they use passenger stats, not distances or accessibility or music trends.

I do think distances matter some, though, because changes to service levels change bleed. I suspect one reason that AUS TATL is doing so well is that it is drawing passengers from SAT.

True even for MSY. MSY can easily pick up traffic from BTR/GPT even MOB. The catchment area for the MSY service is really much larger than just MSY. Heck, there's even vacation packages that bring Europeans into MSY, but eventually they end up on the beaches of the Florida Panhandle.

izbtmnhd wrote:

Then apply it sanely. Don't tell me Akron, which is only 30 miles from Cleveland, can't be part of Cleveland's catchment area because Indy bleeds people going to Chicago which is well over 100 miles away. You one of the worst arbiters of this info so you can pump Indy on all these threads. It drags these threads into stupidity.

? Not sure what you are getting at, I agree Akron is a part of Cleveland's catchment area, and IND bleeds to ORD. I'm not quite sure why you are so eager to be rude...

Midwestindy wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Then apply it sanely. Don't tell me Akron, which is only 30 miles from Cleveland, can't be part of Cleveland's catchment area because Indy bleeds people going to Chicago which is well over 100 miles away. You one of the worst arbiters of this info so you can pump Indy on all these threads. It drags these threads into stupidity.

? Not sure what you are getting at, I agree Akron is a part of Cleveland's catchment area, and IND bleeds to ORD. I'm not quite sure why you are so eager to be rude...

Ye of convenient short memory.

DfwAussie wrote:

seahawk wrote:

I would not rule out LH. With the VW factory in Chattanooga there could be some basic biz demand. Same with the Mercedes factory in Tuscaloosa

Not sure about that. Chattanooga is closer to the city of Atlanta, but since the airport is on the far side of the the city, I'm not sure it evens out counting Atlanta traffic. Access to BNA from points south involve side roadways with traffic lights if coming in on I-24. It would be a nice surprise though.

Well considering the not so awesomely connected international terminal at ATL and the time you waste getting your rental, the smaller airport might be interesting. LH is a long shot, but also not impossible. I know that many from the car industry prefer CLT over ATL.

Midwestindy wrote:

MalevTU134 wrote:

It doesn't anger me, but I would be genuinely interested in a reasonably intelligent discussion here, and not a pi**ing contest and totally irrelevant arguments about whether a town or a suburb belongs or not to a MSA. I can guarantee you that route planners don't care even a tiny bit about that. It's far outside the equation. People who talk about J class potential, cargo potential and yields are onto something. Those talking about tourism potential are marginally on track. Those talking about country music and car plates from other states at the airport are clueless.

Catchment area factors into air service, if you don't think so ask MKE and SAT....

I assume you aren't from the middle of the country so I will cut you some slack, because the places you are calling "Tinyville or Buttholetown" are places that contain large universities and f500 companies...Anyway, that wasn't even an argument, it was just an observation made about the catchment areas of the different cities...

If you were listening, J class potential, cargo potential, incentives, and possible yields were discussed several times in this thread alone...

So, why don't you share your opinion on the matter...

Yes, and that is already pretty well included in the passenger stats.

No, I do not live in the US at all, but I have worked in the team analyzing and planning new TATL routes for a major US carrier for 5 years. Details like "X University at 30 miles away" don't make a dent in the analysis, as this university is already included in the passenger numbers, the average fares and so on. So are F500 companies. Very few will travel more just because a new nonstop flight is started. It has to be a new type of service (for example ULCC from an airport that doesn't have that) to stimulate new traffic to a significant degree.

If you look upthread, I have given my opinion...

I don't mind the back and forth in these threads, but when it descends into grotesque stereotyping and an obvious lack of any real knowledge about a city and region, it becomes tiresome and offensive. Some posters have the maturity of a 14 year-old.

MalevTU134 wrote:

Details like "X University at 30 miles away" don't make a dent in the analysis, as this university is already included in the passenger numbers, the average fares and so on. So are F500 companies. Very few will travel more just because a new nonstop flight is started.

It's true that new nonstop flights may not lead to more business travel, but at some of these airports they may lead to more travel from the airport in question and may also lead to some new "measured" international travel if folks are double ticketing now.

izbtmnhd wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Then apply it sanely. Don't tell me Akron, which is only 30 miles from Cleveland, can't be part of Cleveland's catchment area because Indy bleeds people going to Chicago which is well over 100 miles away. You one of the worst arbiters of this info so you can pump Indy on all these threads. It drags these threads into stupidity.

? Not sure what you are getting at, I agree Akron is a part of Cleveland's catchment area, and IND bleeds to ORD. I'm not quite sure why you are so eager to be rude...

Ye of convenient short memory.

izbtmnhd wrote:

I'm with Malev. It's the same handful of posters on these threads that go on and on and on about city comparisons. Tearing one city down so that they can build their favorite city up. Everywhere on these threads. Even in discussions which are very innocuous.

If you don't know how to reply to someone without being rude, you shouldn't be on this thread. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Your only contributions you have made to this thread, are your attempts to insult my opinion, which is truly sad. People like me come on a.net because they enjoy sharing their opinions on aviation, and rude posters ruin that for everyone. I'd be happy to participate in meaningful discussion with you, but not if you are going to constantly try to bring people like myself down...

Midwestindy wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

? Not sure what you are getting at, I agree Akron is a part of Cleveland's catchment area, and IND bleeds to ORD. I'm not quite sure why you are so eager to be rude...

Ye of convenient short memory.

izbtmnhd wrote:

I'm with Malev. It's the same handful of posters on these threads that go on and on and on about city comparisons. Tearing one city down so that they can build their favorite city up. Everywhere on these threads. Even in discussions which are very innocuous.

If you don't know how to reply to someone without being rude, you shouldn't be on this thread. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Your only contributions you have made to this thread, are your attempts to insult my opinion, which is truly sad. People like me come on a.net because they enjoy sharing their opinions on aviation, and rude posters ruin that for everyone. I'd be happy to participate in meaningful discussion with you, but not if you are going to constantly try to bring people like myself down...

You share your opinions on Indianapolis, aviation is just the side note.

izbtmnhd wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Ye of convenient short memory.

izbtmnhd wrote:

I'm with Malev. It's the same handful of posters on these threads that go on and on and on about city comparisons. Tearing one city down so that they can build their favorite city up. Everywhere on these threads. Even in discussions which are very innocuous.

If you don't know how to reply to someone without being rude, you shouldn't be on this thread. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Your only contributions you have made to this thread, are your attempts to insult my opinion, which is truly sad. People like me come on a.net because they enjoy sharing their opinions on aviation, and rude posters ruin that for everyone. I'd be happy to participate in meaningful discussion with you, but not if you are going to constantly try to bring people like myself down...

You share your opinions on Indianapolis, aviation is just the side note.

Are you done?

AA flew DC10 BNA-LGW for a brief time in the 90's

globalcabotage wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

I personally would love to see BNA, STL, CLE get at least one TATL flight...

And, I admit I clearly don't know everything about BNA. But, with all do respect to the BNA people out there, every time a topic like this is brought up, little is said about 1) the SPECIFIC corporations in Nashville that will utilize these flights, BA isn't going to fly a plane if there will be no corporations to pay full price to fill the front cabin on a regular basis. 2)Actual Nashville tourism statistics compared to other cities. 3)Stats in general

Most comments go along the lines of saying "Nashville's doing great right now, so therefore we need a TATL flight ASAP" which doesn't provide much insight into actual demand for passenger traffic. Again, the same can be said for a lot of comments about STL/CLE/IND/CVG/PIT/e.t.c

I very much agree IND and STL deserve TATL right along with BNA, all three are way overdue for a flight. In fact, if all three (BNA, IND, STL) got some decent TATL (and eventually TPAC) service, they could become decent long-distance reliever airports for ORD and ATL respectively.

What I don't understand is why people insist CLE and CMH deserve TATL flights. What exactly is the draw for those cities (from both business and tourist)? Both would be better off focusing on expanding their domestic network before trying to land TATL flights.

Let's get 1 nonstop to London first before thinking about Asia. As a reliever for ORD and ATL, how did STL pan out as a reliever for ORD and DFW?

Ask WN as they are expanding again in STL. AA took over TWA more to eliminate a competitor, despite their financial situation. They never planned to keep the hub going. Same as what WN did in ATL. After TWA/AA ops dropped in STL WN expanded and are doing great. As for a reliever for Dallas & Chicago it seems WN proved that one.

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Again, nothing against BNA, but most of these arguments are not based in stats and fact just opinion....

As are your arguments against BNA. Let's at least all play by the same rules.

Disagree he provided facts. Where are your facts to back it up?

rbavfan wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Again, nothing against BNA, but most of these arguments are not based in stats and fact just opinion....

As are your arguments against BNA. Let's at least all play by the same rules.

Disagree he provided facts. Where are your facts to back it up?

What assertions have I made that you believe lack facts? I don't know where I stand on the BNA versus IND question. IND's case is almost certainly stronger today. The trend lines suggest that that may not be true in 10 years.

DfwAussie wrote:

A friend of mine who works at BNA is saying MNAA will be making a major announcement soon. Mid-summer seems an odd time to announce new service. Their last few emails are updates on the BNA Vision. I suspect if there's anything, it may be that.

What would there be to announce as far as the BNA vision goes? Groundbreaking on the Concourse D or the permanent international arrivals building? Those are still in design. It has be some new service.

That being said, my guess is any announcement for TATL service for BNA won't be made until the fall.

Cubsrule wrote:

rbavfan wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

As are your arguments against BNA. Let's at least all play by the same rules.

Disagree he provided facts. Where are your facts to back it up?

What assertions have I made that you believe lack facts? I don't know where I stand on the BNA versus IND question. IND's case is almost certainly stronger today. The trend lines suggest that that may not be true in 10 years.

Long term trends do favor BNA.

https://businessfacilities.com/2017/07/tennessee-a-hotbed-for-foreign-direct-investment/

globalcabotage wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

Not exactly. The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than the Nashville metro area, and Nashville will likely overtake Indianapolis within the next 10-15 years. The business climate in Nashville is more favorable than Indianapolis and even St. Louis (no state income tax, lower property tax burden, cost-of-living is cheaper, better weather, etc). Nashville is growing by 100 people a day, and businesses move here all the time (both big and small).

I am not disputing that STL and IND are deserving of TATL flights (they most definitely are and they should get them ASAP), but don't write off Nashville like that.

"The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than the Nashville metro area, and Nashville will likely overtake Indianapolis within the next 10-15 years." For the 40232132123th time population doesn't determine air traffic. Secondly, they weren't talking about business CLIMATE, they were talking about business TRAFFIC, huge difference... And we are talking about now not 10-15 years in future, when Nashville hypothetically passes St.Louis and Indianapolis.

US cities GDP(in millions):
21)St.Louis: 155,077
25)Indianapolis: 134,081
34)Nashville: 113,680
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... eas_by_GDP

"businesses move here all the time(both big and small.)" Then why can't any one who is praising Nashville, name all of these that have significant travel to europe....

STL is 155 million! Not sure why this puts ATL, DFW, IAH, LAX, NYC, ORD, SFO to shame

STL is actually in the 155 billion GDP range. It had 149.9 Billion GDP in 2014. So its still growing.

Midwestindy wrote:

Furthermore, it hasn't been discussed but IND officials met with BA officials in the late spring, and since that meeting the director of IND said in an interview that flights to London were six-eight months away, I also talked to a member of the Indiana state government who confirmed that a late summer/fall London announcement was very likely. Furthermore, IND has a 15 million dollar state fund to tap into, along with other airport/private incentives that could be offered.

Not saying your wrong, but I'd take those comments with a grain of salt. Politicians and other public officials say things like that all the time (on lots of subjects), but until it's officially announced, things can change. I've been duped many times into thinking something will happen because of comments like that and it turns out to be false in the end.

However, IF that is true, then IND will be the mid-sized city that gets a BA flight for 2017 (that will start in Spring 2018). My guess would be that Nashville will follow suit in 2018 (and start in 2019), considering they seem to only announce one route of this size per year at a time.

CHA5Departure wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

CHA5Departure wrote:

In regard to the music industry in Nashville, it is not just a country music town anymore. There is a lot of pop/rock recording and production going on in Nashville. Most, if not all, of the major recording labels have more than just a passing presence in the city. There is plenty enough music business in BNA to generate some traffic to Europe, but maybe not totally support the service.

As a consumer living in Chattanooga, TN (located about halfway between ATL and BNA) with close family in Germany, I would love to see a LCC start service in either ATL or BNA. Sure, I have tons of TATL options in ATL, but it is all legacy service and the fares are much higher than what an LCC would bring to the table.

If Condor started seasonal service to Frankfurt (like MSY), would that be sufficient?

I think that would be a great alternative.

Except that business seat sales drives it. Bridgestone European headquarters in in Brussels. So service to there as opposed to London would make more sense. Nissan is not popular in Europe so that one being named for TATL is useless. What other businesses have they named that have large ops in Europe that would help cover operations cost? You also might rethink that 28-30" seats to Europe on an LLC.

ADrum23 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Furthermore, it hasn't been discussed but IND officials met with BA officials in the late spring, and since that meeting the director of IND said in an interview that flights to London were six-eight months away, I also talked to a member of the Indiana state government who confirmed that a late summer/fall London announcement was very likely. Furthermore, IND has a 15 million dollar state fund to tap into, along with other airport/private incentives that could be offered.

Not saying your wrong, but I'd take those comments with a grain of salt. Politicians and other public officials say things like that all the time (on lots of subjects), but until it's officially announced, things can change. I've been duped many times into thinking something will happen because of comments like that and it turns out to be false in the end.

However, IF that is true, then IND will be the mid-sized city that gets a BA flight for 2017 (that will start in Spring 2018). My guess would be that Nashville will follow suit in 2018 (and start in 2019), considering they seem to only announce one route of this size per year at a time.

Completely agree! For all I know BNA or CMH could get it first!

With regards to the mention of the major announcement related to BNA vision, is there a source that mentions the possibility/timeframe of an announcement or is it word of mouth?

Is there any Nissan-related BNA traffic connected to the joint alliance with Renault?

Cubsrule wrote:

rbavfan wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

As are your arguments against BNA. Let's at least all play by the same rules.

Disagree he provided facts. Where are your facts to back it up?

What assertions have I made that you believe lack facts? I don't know where I stand on the BNA versus IND question. IND's case is almost certainly stronger today. The trend lines suggest that that may not be true in 10 years.

At the point I made the comment you had questioned his statement that had facts noted. You comment had zero facts posted to back up your rebuttal to his facts. If you had facts to back up you comments vs his why did you not post that fact with the comment.

Midwestindy wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Furthermore, it hasn't been discussed but IND officials met with BA officials in the late spring, and since that meeting the director of IND said in an interview that flights to London were six-eight months away, I also talked to a member of the Indiana state government who confirmed that a late summer/fall London announcement was very likely. Furthermore, IND has a 15 million dollar state fund to tap into, along with other airport/private incentives that could be offered.

Not saying your wrong, but I'd take those comments with a grain of salt. Politicians and other public officials say things like that all the time (on lots of subjects), but until it's officially announced, things can change. I've been duped many times into thinking something will happen because of comments like that and it turns out to be false in the end.

However, IF that is true, then IND will be the mid-sized city that gets a BA flight for 2017 (that will start in Spring 2018). My guess would be that Nashville will follow suit in 2018 (and start in 2019), considering they seem to only announce one route of this size per year at a time.

Completely agree! For all I know BNA or CMH could get it first!

With regards to the mention of the major announcement related to BNA vision, is there a source that mentions the possibility/timeframe of an announcement or is it word of mouth?

I have not found anything, so I think it may be just speculation at this point.

One should not forgot that besides a significant business market, New Orleans has the worldwide name recognition that IND, CMH and CLE do not have and as result draws tourist from around the world. New Orleans also has some cruise ship business and is fairly close to the MS, AL and Florida gulf coast.

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

Is there any Nissan-related BNA traffic connected to the joint alliance with Renault?

According to what I have read the Renault–Nissan Alliance is a Franco-Japanese strategic partnership, so I assume some traffic may go to BNA from Renault, but not a lot compared to that going from Renault-Japan.

olddominion727 wrote:

AA flew DC10 BNA-LGW for a brief time in the 90's

AA never used DC10 on BNA to LGW it was a B762 with the occasional B763.

BNA to LGW operated from June 1994 till October 1995 as has already been mentioned in a previous post.

Midwestindy wrote:

ADrum23 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Furthermore, it hasn't been discussed but IND officials met with BA officials in the late spring, and since that meeting the director of IND said in an interview that flights to London were six-eight months away, I also talked to a member of the Indiana state government who confirmed that a late summer/fall London announcement was very likely. Furthermore, IND has a 15 million dollar state fund to tap into, along with other airport/private incentives that could be offered.

Not saying your wrong, but I'd take those comments with a grain of salt. Politicians and other public officials say things like that all the time (on lots of subjects), but until it's officially announced, things can change. I've been duped many times into thinking something will happen because of comments like that and it turns out to be false in the end.

However, IF that is true, then IND will be the mid-sized city that gets a BA flight for 2017 (that will start in Spring 2018). My guess would be that Nashville will follow suit in 2018 (and start in 2019), considering they seem to only announce one route of this size per year at a time.

Completely agree! For all I know BNA or CMH could get it first!

With regards to the mention of the major announcement related to BNA vision, is there a source that mentions the possibility/timeframe of an announcement or is it word of mouth?

For whatever reason, BNA does not leak much about announcements ahead of time. I don't know of anything public setting forth a timeframe, and many of the recent new service announcements (both domestic and international) have not been leaked.

rbavfan wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

rbavfan wrote:

Disagree he provided facts. Where are your facts to back it up?

What assertions have I made that you believe lack facts? I don't know where I stand on the BNA versus IND question. IND's case is almost certainly stronger today. The trend lines suggest that that may not be true in 10 years.

At the point I made the comment you had questioned his statement that had facts noted. You comment had zero facts posted to back up your rebuttal to his facts. If you had facts to back up you comments vs his why did you not post that fact with the comment.

This is a silly argument. Please point me to any statement with facts that I have questioned. I did question a statement about music tourism in Austin versus Nashville that he did not support with facts.

Midwestindy wrote:

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

Is there any Nissan-related BNA traffic connected to the joint alliance with Renault?

According to what I have read the Renault–Nissan Alliance is a Franco-Japanese strategic partnership, so I assume some traffic may go to BNA from Renault, but not a lot compared to that going from Renault-Japan.

This is the sort of statement that causes questions about your credibility, because you seem to read selectively items that support IND or detract from its "competitors."

The public statements on the alliance label much of the cooperation with Daimler as alliance work. That includes engines built in Tennessee with help from Daimler in Germany and upcoming joint manufacturing in AGU, which will report to Franklin. There is also some less obvious traffic, such as in purchasing, that at least arguably relates to the alliance.

Damn, this thread certainly got out of hand haha